77 réponses à ce sujet

[Xewaka]

thats1evildude wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Yeah, it's not like we got a companion who blew up a church.

But dammit, he's a freedom fighter! A freedom fighter! THE CHANTRY'S BAD, YO!

I think Anders is probably the most brilliant villain written by Bioware yet.

[Blastback]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

Definitely. Evil companions add flair to the game.

In Baldur's Gate 2, Viconia was one of the most interesting characters ever made in a video game. Whether you romanced her or not, her dialogues were well written and added to the game's atmosphere.

I'd wager that Viconia is hardly an evil character at all, regardless of what her alignment says.

At first she's perfectly willing to commit horrible actions as long as she feels the goal is worthy. It's meaningless deaths that she objected to.  In D&D terms that is evil.  But then, in D&D, good and evil are not abstract notions of morality but genuine absolute forces.  It's been written that if a good character tortures a prisoner even to prevent the deaths of hundreds, then the forces of evil have won a victory.

[Mr. C]

Absolutely! But not like Morrigan, who is more chaotic neutral. I want an insane, chaotic evil Blood Mage with a Justice-like-symbiosis with a Rage demon! > Call him Jonesy! xD

[Sylvius the Mad]

Xewaka wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Yeah, it's not like we got a companion who blew up a church.

But dammit, he's a freedom fighter! A freedom fighter! THE CHANTRY'S BAD, YO!

I think Anders is probably the most brilliant villain written by Bioware yet.

Villain?  I would argue that Anders is the protagonist of DA2.  Hawke is merely a side-character.

[elfdwarf]

i see in grey ,not in black and white except for archdemon

[Xewaka]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
I think Anders is probably the most brilliant villain written by Bioware yet.

Villain?  I would argue that Anders is the protagonist of DA2.  Hawke is merely a side-character.

Villain and protagonist are not mutually exclusive. And I always thought that the best parallel to Hawke is Ishmael from Moby Dick: he's the Point of View character, not the protagonist.

[Fast Jimmy]

Xewaka wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
I think Anders is probably the most brilliant villain written by Bioware yet.

Villain?  I would argue that Anders is the protagonist of DA2.  Hawke is merely a side-character.

Villain and protagonist are not mutually exclusive. And I always thought that the best parallel to Hawke is Ishmael from Moby Dick: he's the Point of View character, not the protagonist.

Which is ironic, because the entire story is technically told from Varric's point of view.

So... I guess that makes Hawke essentially useless to the plot?

[Xewaka]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
I think Anders is probably the most brilliant villain written by Bioware yet.

Villain?  I would argue that Anders is the protagonist of DA2.  Hawke is merely a side-character.

Villain and protagonist are not mutually exclusive. And I always thought that the best parallel to Hawke is Ishmael from Moby Dick: he's the Point of View character, not the protagonist.

Which is ironic, because the entire story is technically told from Varric's point of view.
So... I guess that makes Hawke essentially useless to the plot?

No. Varric is the narrator, but he tells the story from Hawke's point of view.

Modifié par Xewaka, 14 août 2012 - 01:07 .

[Reznore57]

For me evil would be a character who murder , rape , torture for the lols.
And i couldn't stand to have that as a companion.

I don't mind having companions who do bad things ,but it needs some substance behind , a reason.
That i can understand or not.
But really I don't need a total psycho in my party.

[Lord Gremlin]

This is one of few things that will make me a bit more interested in a game. I haven't seen truly evil characters in a while - unless it's a game where you play as evil monster by default.

[Lord Gremlin]

Reznore57 wrote...

For me evil would be a character who murder , rape , torture for the lols.
And i couldn't stand to have that as a companion.

And I'd like to see such a companion. Remember, they can be optional. I've murdered Wynne every time in Origins, I've discovered that she was a companion only much later, when I started to google why my trophy won't unlock and learnt that she was the last companion needed for it.
Again, take Origins... I've often though that a third way was missing. Like mass murdering of denerim citizens and turning them into undead to fend off darkspawn. And then same undead army could be used to control the country. If you think about it, not much gameplay alterations would be involved.
Truly evil characters are needed so that you have full scale. It's no fun being evil if you don't really have a choice, it's not fun to be heroic if you're forced to be like that anyway.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Xewaka wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Which is ironic, because the entire story is technically told from Varric's point of view.
So... I guess that makes Hawke essentially useless to the plot?

No. Varric is the narrator, but he tells the story from Hawke's point of view.

Which, of course, Varric can't know, making him unreliable.

[Xewaka]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...
Which is ironic, because the entire story is technically told from Varric's point of view.
So... I guess that makes Hawke essentially useless to the plot?

No. Varric is the narrator, but he tells the story from Hawke's point of view.

Which, of course, Varric can't know, making him unreliable.

Varric is essentially live-writing a "based on true facts" story, putting Hawke as the point of view character, while telling the story of Anders.
As a narrative device it looks interesting. Too bad they lacked the development time to properly make the whole framing work.

[mitthrawuodo]

An evil character would be interesting but only if they're evil by choice and not controlled by some demon cause that's boring. A greedy evil character would be boring as they've been done dozen of time before. The bounty hunter from firefly would work in a dragon age setting or any good super villain (TDK's Joker) in Thedas would be cool

[Sylvius the Mad]

Xewaka wrote...

Varric is essentially live-writing a "based on true facts" story

So he claims.

That he's making it up as he goes would explain some of the incongruous bits.

[CarlSpackler]

I will say the Anders story-arc for DA2 was very well done. I know a lot of folks didn't like the change in character from Awakening to DA2 but I didn't really have a problem with it, I mean one, people simply change. Happens all the time. (Albeit the amount of time between Awakening and when we first meet Anders was perhaps a little too short for that type of change.) Two and more importantly the man absorbed a spirit into his consciousness. Easy to explain the change in personality.

I sympathized a great deal with his character and was geuinely shocked at his actions. Although I supported the mages in my playthrough, I also executed Anders. I was stunned by his actions sddened to execute my friend, but felt it the right thing to do in that position.

As for a "truly evil" character I certainly wouldn't accept one in my party given the choice. Although I suppose it would depend on how the character was presented. I was interested in experiencing the gameplay with all of the NPCs so went against my character on a playthrough of DAO to include Zevran even though logically I couldn't imagine agreeing to let the guy hired to kill me join up. Spare him and let him run away, sure, but join up? It required a purposeful suspension of my instincts to let him join the camp. Afterwards all was welll and his character certainly added to the game. Could never bring myself to use Logaihn though, not just to atone for his actions but didn't want to lose Alistair.

[element eater]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

Definitely. Evil companions add flair to the game.

In Baldur's Gate 2, Viconia was one of the most interesting characters ever made in a video game. Whether you romanced her or not, her dialogues were well written and added to the game's atmosphere.

I'd wager that Viconia is hardly an evil character at all, regardless of what her alignment says.

damn strait 

if any modern bioware game created a character i liked as much as Viconia id consider it a success

[Iakus]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

Definitely. Evil companions add flair to the game.

In Baldur's Gate 2, Viconia was one of the most interesting characters ever made in a video game. Whether you romanced her or not, her dialogues were well written and added to the game's atmosphere.

I'd wager that Viconia is hardly an evil character at all, regardless of what her alignment says.

Keldorn disagreed.

Strenuously 

[Cultist]

iakus wrote...
Keldorn disagreed.
Strenuously 

Keldorn neglected his wife and then wanted to turn her to the authorities  when she sought to sate her loneliness with another man. So he's not the one to judge)

[Nashimura]

Morrigan was evil, she may of liked you in some playthroughs...but everyone else could go to hell and she was only there for her - good writing on that.

[jmadsen]

a one of many companion in da3? dear god yes

[Aristorum]

Evil as in just pure, downright, remote hiding, candy stealing, world ending evil? No. Because that often lacks depth. I prefer grey. A well rounded companion with actions that can be defined as either good or evil (or anywhere in between) by the player feels more realistic and makes the character much more interesting.

Now if you asked if I'd like a chaotic companion, sure. Not necessarily evil, but someone who enjoys conflict more than peace (and who would occasionally be more of a liability than an asset). I feel like that would be a better hook than just being 'evil.'

Modifié par Aristorum, 19 août 2012 - 05:38 .

[wright1978]

Aristorum wrote...

Evil as in just pure, downright, remote hiding, candy stealing, world ending evil? No. Because that often lacks depth. I prefer grey. A well rounded companion with actions that can be defined as either good or evil (or anywhere in between) by the player feels more realistic and makes the character much more interesting.

Now if you asked if I'd like a chaotic companion, sure. Not necessarily evil, but someone who enjoys conflict more than peace (and who would occasionally be more of a liability than an asset). I feel like that would be a better hook than just being 'evil.'

Yep no interest in a simplistic pure evil character. Now characters with a very grey morality i'm all for.

[Fishy]

Mr. C wrote...

Absolutely! But not like Morrigan, who is more chaotic neutral. I want an insane, chaotic evil Blood Mage with a Justice-like-symbiosis with a Rage demon! > Call him Jonesy! xD

Chaotic Evil would be impossible to have has a companions. They don`t follow order.


Chaotic Evil is referred to as the "Destroyer" or "Demonic" alignment.
Characters of this alignment tend to have no respect for rules, other
people's lives, or anything but their own desires, which are typically
selfish and cruel. They set a high value on personal freedom, but do not
have any regard for the lives or freedom of other people. They do not
work well in groups, as they resent being given orders, and usually
behave themselves only out of fear of punishment.