154 réponses à ce sujet

[Asylumer]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Another good reason for having her as a party member, it brings female party members up to 3 (or 4 if include Shale)

Morrigan + Wynne + Lelianna + Shale already equals four.

Male-wise there's Alistair/Loghain (can only have one), Sten, Zevran, and Oghren. Plus Dog if you count animals.

4 females, 4 males, and a dog. There are slightly more male options due to the Landsmeet choice but you also don't get Loghain until near the end of the game. If anything, the biggest party imbalance is an overabundance of two-handed weapon users... they should've made Oghren a dual wielder and perhaps included Cauthrien with Loghain in a 2-for-1 package.

[Crunchyinmilk]

Koyasha wrote...
I am dissapointed in her dialogue at the landsmeet. There's like three good, convincing arguments you can use to sway her, and a Persuade option. The persuade option goes away if you try to convince her through real points and such. So basically, in order to actually get her to back down, you need to forget making actual points and supporting them, just use your Jedi Mind Powers to make her flip positions instantly.
The conversation would have been much better if, only after using some of the rational arguments would the Persuade option come up. It would then feel much, much less forced and a lot less like you just use Jedi Mind Powers on her.

All (persuade) dialogue should have been like this.   Fighting your way through a dialogue tree to reach them is as (often more) interesting as fighting a bunch of mobs.

[Silensfurtim]

I was hoping to bed Ser Cauthrien then talk about Loghains plans and all.. le sigh..

[Avaraen]

Crunchyinmilk wrote...

Koyasha wrote...
I am dissapointed in her dialogue at the landsmeet. There's like three good, convincing arguments you can use to sway her, and a Persuade option. The persuade option goes away if you try to convince her through real points and such. So basically, in order to actually get her to back down, you need to forget making actual points and supporting them, just use your Jedi Mind Powers to make her flip positions instantly.
The conversation would have been much better if, only after using some of the rational arguments would the Persuade option come up. It would then feel much, much less forced and a lot less like you just use Jedi Mind Powers on her.

All (persuade) dialogue should have been like this.   Fighting your way through a dialogue tree to reach them is as (often more) interesting as fighting a bunch of mobs.

Exactly; make me work for it. Honestly, most dialogue in the game is more interesting if you skip the persuade, or fail it - I just wish they'd done a little more with the persuade check, where you pass it, but then have to keep arguing with them, and they give in at the end. Sort of like the NWN2 trial with Torio, where you get the "?" dialogue for a while before you find out if you passed the persuade check.

[Null]

I wanted her in my party, and as a romance.



Ah, but just having a female warrior who wields a big two handed sword would be awesome in itself. Ah well.

[Korva]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

With regard the whole landsmeet change of shift, personally I think this persuasion option should only come up if you chose the proper "surrender" option at the estate ie. the one which doesn't have you fighting her or bringing anora into it. It would make more sense if it was just after that because in that instance she states how she was surprised that the warden surrendered without a fight and the way the actress says it, really gives a "Hmm, maybe I should re-evaluate whose side I am on?" kind of tone to it.

Agreed, that would have made some good sense.

The way Cauthrien is implemented is frankly laughable, with the whole "inexplicably coming back from the dead" mess if you fight her at Howe's. If we weren't MEANT to fight/win, then the option shouldn't have been there in the first place. If we DO defeat her, there is no way she should show up at the Landsmeet. Cauthrien and the Landsmeet kind of exemplify my two biggest gripes with the game 1) lack of consequences and 2) player conduct matters squat.

Koyasha wrote...

I am dissapointed in her dialogue at the
landsmeet. There's like three good, convincing arguments you can use to
sway her, and a Persuade option. The persuade option goes away if you
try to convince her through real points and such. So basically, in
order to actually get her to back down, you need to forget making
actual points and supporting them, just use your Jedi Mind Powers to
make her flip positions instantly.

Another very good point. A Persuade option that appears out of the blue and goes away if you actually try to engage in conversation to find out how the person ticks ... feels just cheap.

[Original182]

Korva wrote...

Koyasha wrote...

I am dissapointed in her dialogue at the
landsmeet. There's like three good, convincing arguments you can use to
sway her, and a Persuade option. The persuade option goes away if you
try to convince her through real points and such. So basically, in
order to actually get her to back down, you need to forget making
actual points and supporting them, just use your Jedi Mind Powers to
make her flip positions instantly.

Another very good point. A Persuade option that appears out of the blue and goes away if you actually try to engage in conversation to find out how the person ticks ... feels just cheap.

Sometimes maybe the simplest answer is the one that hits home the most.

But yeah I feel a persuade check should be one of the longest, most wordy options. Like in Planescape: Torment, to convince that armor npc that he's not real, you go into a lengthy argument "When I cut my hands, I bleed. I'm real. Real things bleed. This is what it's like to be living. etc"

[borelocin]

Actually Ser Cauthrien can be made to see reason if you are persuasive enough.

[T0paze]

Actually, Dragon Age doesn't (at least in most cases) have persuasion. It has hypnosis. You say something, and if your hypnosis skill is high enough, people will obey. It doesn't have anything to do with using strong arguments or cogent reasoning.

Modifié par T0paze, 22 décembre 2009 - 02:27 .

[Sabriana]

I expected more out of that character too. Her reaction at Ostagar gave me hope that she would gradually turn and see the light, no matter how grateful she's to Loghain. Her body-language and the looks she gave Loghain showed great promise. It would've been so awesome to get her into the Grey Wardens instead of Loghain.

[Funker Shepard]

Kyogen wrote...

verrall20 wrote...

I was expecting so much more from her as a character rather than some optinal boss. I was hoping for her to be a hidden companion or at least a very importent npc which bioware rather falsly said she would. maybe a civil war dlc or any dlc may change this.

Yes, I would have liked to see her in more of the game and doing more than saying "Yes, sir." She is a character with potential that is never exploited.

I agree. I think she might actually even be doable as a late-game npc from Landsmeet onwards via DLC, as it would limit the amount of stuff to be patched in the main game.

And since I'm on a trip on wishful thinking, captain Isabela and her ship do have some more potential, even if her backstory/characterisation is a bit... thinner. I see potential for more there, as well.

[ozsras]

Ser Cauthrien is awesome. Okay, so she's blinded by the Loghain hero worship/love (I always thought she loved him for some reason.) but still - she's a 2h warrior that hits harder than the High Dragon! And that sword! I am ashamed to say that I never persuade her to my side at the landsmeet or give up at Howe's place.



I really, really love that sword she has. XD Not as awesome as Starfang but still pretty awesome.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

The Angry One wrote...

T0paze wrote...

I didn't expect anything from her. I mean, you only see her twice - first in a cutscene in Ostagar, I think, and then in Denerim, for about one minute, during which she gets to utter one sentence. How did you even get the impression that she'd be a secret companion? It makes no more sense than thinking that you'll be able to recruit Godanna.

Eh I'd want here solely for the fact that she breaks the fantasy archetype squad your party is made up of. The girls are mages and rogues, the boys are big burly warriors, the elf is a pretty assassin...
Same reason I want Jowan. Mix it up damnit!

I'm DeathWyrmNexus and I approve of this message. Go ahead and mark me for a fan as well. The total archetype-fest rather pissed me off.

[KalosCast]

The fact that anybody considered that Loghain's right-hand military leader who never under any circumstances takes off her armor as anything more than a boss fight or two blows my mind a little. She has zero character development throughout the entire game.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I would have loved Ser Cauthrien as a party member, especially as a romance option, for the very reasons stated. She isn't an archetype. She's a tough, competant warrior who could have easily pwned Loghain (I fought both, and Loghain is a punk, he goes down pretty easy with a few tactics). She also seems to be intelligent and conflicted. On one hand, she still looks up to Loghain and serves him loyaly because she has always known him, in her experience, to be an honorable hero. Yet deep down, she knows that something ain't right, and thus, is conflicted.



From a romance perspective, I personally think she is the hottest female in the game, and I'm a straight, married woman. I really wish she was the same sex female option, rather than Leliana, who had too much of the femme fatale/fatal attraction creepieness for me to want to pursue that. Cathrien is strong, tough, and competant without being "butch", and emotionally at least, seems to possess a stability and maturity, as well as depth, that other females in game, such as Anora or others, lack.



Ser Cathrien FTW. If she was a romancable option, I'd totally go "moss licker", as Oghren would say.

[T0paze]

Actually, some say Ser Cauthrien is only tough in that mansion. If you surrender and meet her later, she's said to be much weaker. That was about comparing her strength to that of Loghain. However, I haven't personally checked that.

Second, I never found any serious reason to surrender to her. So, she has some 15 guards and a mage, big deal. You've been in worse situations, if you only consider the numbers. The big surprise is that Ser Cauthrien herself (or, to be more precise, her Howe Mansion Version) hits like a truck. However, you have no way of knowing that without metagaming. All you can see when you're ambushed is a pretentious shrew with a bunch of cheerleaders - nothing you can't handle by the looks of it. And you also know that if you surrender, your chances of survival are pretty slim, given the nature of your warm and friendly relations with Loghain.

Modifié par T0paze, 22 décembre 2009 - 05:27 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Pre-landsmeet she still almost wiped out my party. I really had to micromanage and plan accordingly to beat her. One on one, it would have been near impossible.



\\the fight in Howe's mansion was irrelevant. You simply aren't supposed to win. I never surrender myself.



And I'd never consider "prententious shrew" an apt description of Cauthrien. \\|A stubborn and irritatingly loyal minion, yes, who still holds to the delusions that her boss is an honorable man worth fighting and dying for, and despite her own creeping doubts, still clings to the delusion until death, or some heavy conversational smack-downage.



Shrew is more apt for the weak, manipulative noble women, such as Anora or Isolde.



I really wish more time had been spent on her, as I'd much rather have the option to recruit her rather than Loghain.

[Sarevok Anchev]

Hmmm...

I just made a poll wher e you can decide if Loghain shall die or live...
Maybe i will make now another one for Cauthrien(damn i hate this name ^^ )

And btw: Why does she have a male title of a knight? Shouldnt she be caled Lady(or in the DA:O language Ledhy)

Modifié par Sarevok Anchev, 22 décembre 2009 - 05:37 .

[T0paze]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Pre-landsmeet she still almost wiped out my party. I really had to micromanage and plan accordingly to beat her. One on one, it would have been near impossible.

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\the fight in Howe's mansion was irrelevant. You simply aren't supposed to win. I never surrender myself.

And I'd never consider "prententious shrew" an apt description of Cauthrien. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\|A stubborn and irritatingly loyal minion, yes, who still holds to the delusions that her boss is an honorable man worth fighting and dying for, and despite her own creeping doubts, still clings to the delusion until death, or some heavy conversational smack-downage.

Shrew is more apt for the weak, manipulative noble women, such as Anora or Isolde.

I really wish more time had been spent on her, as I'd much rather have the option to recruit her rather than Loghain.

Well, I can't really say anything about her strength before the Landsmeet, since I killed her in the mansion.

As for that fight in Howe's mansion, I wouldn't say you're not supposed to win. Far from it, actually. She's tough but certainly not unbeatable. I also think that an Arcane Warrior with a well-designed build can beat her in single combat without too much trouble. There are many examples of fights you're not supposed to win without cheesing (Drizzt Do'Urden in BG, anyone?), and this isn't one of them.

Modifié par T0paze, 22 décembre 2009 - 05:46 .

[Ponce de Leon]

For me that lady is the Tamoko of the situation, Howe is Angelo and Loghain is Sarevok.

So... who does think that Loghain and Cauthrien do... ahem... sex?

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Maybe. I'm currently playing a mage with Arcane warrior spec, so when I reach that point, I'll try it.



Still, on previous playthroughs, with Morrigan hexing the crap out of her, Wynne throwing forcefields and crushing prisons as well as party heal, and my duelist/assasin and Alistair doing their bashing on her, I couldn't take her down.



From a story/RPG perspective, her intrigue factor started at the battle of Ostagar. Loghain gives the command to pull out his forces. Her reaction is clearly one of shock/near horror. she says "But what about the king", to which Loghain threateningly tells her, "Do as i command".



From this little cutscene, it does develop alot of curiosity and speculation. Cauthrien is surprised and shocked at the retreat, and there is clear hesitation and a rather disappointed glare at Loghain before she finally obeys his command to pull the troops out. Clearly, she is not totally onboard with Loghain's plans, and there is a brief moment of hestiation on whether or not she should.



It's a nice bit of dilema for later on. Cathrien still serves Loghain when we meet her later, yet between then and ostagar, we must wonder exactly what was going through her head. Since Loghain didn't inform her of the pre-planned retreat, it is unlikely her really let her in on much more further down the road. probably fed her the same lines as everyone else: the king was doomed anyway, had to pull our forces out to save them, blah blah blah. And, because the alternative was simply to painful to consider(i.e. that the man she seems to have hero-worshiped has become a traitorous bastard), she probably has had to perform a serious exercise in double-think to keep on serving in her capacity. After all, she is probably the only other person who survived Ostagar who truly knew exactly what happened, yet she keeps her silence, despite her own personal moral dilema.



Alot to be gathered from one little cutscenes, but the doors for speculation and development are there.

[Herr Uhl]

dark-lauron wrote...

For me that lady is the Tamoko of the situation, Howe is Angelo and Loghain is Sarevok.
So... who does think that Loghain and Cauthrien do... ahem... sex?

*raises hand*

[T0paze]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Maybe. I'm currently playing a mage with Arcane warrior spec, so when I reach that point, I'll try it.

Do. That would be interesting (I mean single combat). If you're not soloing, you can order your party to stand back. Make sure you have very high Magic, Arcane Shield, Rock Armor, Fade Shroud, Glyph of Warding, Telekinetic Weapons, Miasma and enough mana regeneration to have Shimmering Shield active during the fight. Don't forget about some nice armor (I don't know about your preferences). Cast Heroic Offense before the fight, if you have it. Haste is even better, but I'm not sure an AW can afford maxing out that line. Being a blood mage helps. I'd also suggest various hexes and paralysis explosion. Don't bother using Cone of Cold - it cannot be cast without sheathing your weapon. Force Field and Crushing Prison can be your friends.

Hmm, that actually makes me want to reinstall the game to duel her myself. 

Modifié par T0paze, 22 décembre 2009 - 06:22 .

[menasure]

dark-lauron wrote...

For me that lady is the Tamoko of the situation, Howe is Angelo and Loghain is Sarevok.
So... who does think that Loghain and Cauthrien do... ahem... sex?

well there is defenitely something funny going on with her steroids hormones. i'd think Sten would be more her kind of guy though.

[Kyogen]

Gilded Age wrote...

Ah, I see.  Well, I have to say, I'm glad there's a little more to the story than your original post suggested.    Thanks for explaining it.  I'm still a little apprehensive about the Witcher, though - issues of possible sexism aside.  Geralt just looks like a heavily-armed, humaniod version of Gollum to me.  

That's exactly the reaction that quite a few characters have to Geralt in The Witcher saga. The myth about Witchers, and it's one that they themselves allow and even spread, is that they are emotionless monster killers and nothing more. Part of the fun of the series is the tension between appearance and reality, but you have to enjoy that sort of story. If it's not your thing, you may want to stay away from it.

Sexism and racism in The Witcher, when they appear, are important narrative elements. The racism is basically interspecies mistrust exploited for political gain. The sexism, such as it is, mostly appears when male characters run out of other weapons to throw at strong female characters, which makes a narrative tool. Females in general are far from helpless or passive, and in the books they are even the protagonists for long stretches.

There is a character in The Witcher--Rayla--who is a great deal like Ser Cauthrien, actually.