37 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Zanallen wrote...

Bioware should solve this problem by removing the mage class completely. Being a mage just doesn't fit with the environment in Thedas currently without some stupid plot device like "Grey Warden" to counter the mage hate.

Their failure to properly accommodate a mage POV is the problem. The fact that, as children of a known mage, Leandra's children legally belong to the Chantry is also ignored in the narrative (since the only exception to this are the children of Grey Wardens). The failure is with the writing.

[TEWR]

nightscrawl wrote...

Lol... The worst is probably when you go talk to Cullen about Wilmod and that confrontation happens. Although perhaps he ignores that because you just saved his ass.

That's not it. He literally is just oblivious to it and if you eventually talk to him in the Gallows he'll state...

I've heard some interesting rumors about you/your sister, Hawke. I hope they're not true.

So yea... that's just a pretty big failure in the writing.

nightscrawl wrote...

A Mike (further commentary on this question): I'll be quite frank in I'm increasingly starting to feel like something we should be doing is making the specializations "singular." So you have ONE, and you pick it, and THAT affects the outcome of your story; because it's the permutations and combinations of having like "OK these two for this class" and "How does that interact if I'm a Spirit Healer and a Blood Mage? Do I fight myself?" that kind of stuff, that means it tends to fall down. So we may exploring just bringing it down to one and having it have a greater impact as a result of that choice.

I don't find this necessary at all. A Spirit Healer/Blood Mage do not come into conflict with one another -- there's nothing to suggest that other then gameplay limitations -- and, per my understanding of the lore, would actually enhance one another.

Save for in battle that is, because that'd break the gameplay even further then it already is.

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

That's not it.

You're right, Cullen is oblivious. He even says, "Mages cannot be treated like people. They are not like you and me. They are weapons." If Cullen knew Hawke was an apostate, he wouldn't argue this to him.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I don't find this necessary at all.

Me, either. This isn't Star Wars; blood magic isn't the dark side of the force. Grey Warden mages have used blood magic to give them an edge against the greatest threat Thedas has ever faced: the darkspawn. Merrill and Anders can fight side by side, for the same goals. Being a blood mage doesn't automatically make a person evil, or the nemesis of a spirit healer.

[Ianamus]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Bioware should solve this problem by removing the mage class completely. Being a mage just doesn't fit with the environment in Thedas currently without some stupid plot device like "Grey Warden" to counter the mage hate.

Their failure to properly accommodate a mage POV is the problem. The fact that, as children of a known mage, Leandra's children legally belong to the Chantry is also ignored in the narrative (since the only exception to this are the children of Grey Wardens). The failure is with the writing.

But Hawke's father was an apostate, so how would they know that one of Hawke's parents was a mage? It makes sense for it to be ignored in the narrative. Not to mention even if the chantry did know about them it would have been assumed that they died when the blight hit Lothering. 

Modifié par EJ107, 11 août 2012 - 03:36 .

[LobselVith8]

EJ107 wrote...

But Hawke's father was an apostate, so how would they know that one of Hawke's parents was a mage?

Leandra and Malcolm Hawke left Kirkwall when the templars discovered that Malcolm was a mage. He was working as a mercenary, and saved the life of the leader of the Crimson Oars by using magic. Leandra and Malcolm left after an Orlesian ball, when Malcolm used Orlesian attire and a mask as a disguise to see her one last time (except she decided to leave with him). It was common knowledge that Leandra left with Malcolm, as we know from one codex entry that addresses the scandals with the Amell family.

Also, Hawke and his siblings have their father's surname. It isn't exactly hard to deduce that Leandra's children are Malcolm's progeny.

[Zanallen]

nightscrawl wrote...

But I want to be able to shoot lightning at fools .

I do agree to a degree though. It will be interesting to see what they come up with, especially if the mage PC is another apostate, like Hawke. If a Circle mage, it's certainly doable. See: Asunder.

Ideally, for me at least, they would remove class choice from the game for the PC and then involve what class the PC is heavier into the narrative. You would then be able to choose what specialization you want, one out of three or four perhaps, and each specialization would also factor heavily into the branching narrative. That's the only way Bioware would be able to really make your class matter. Let's face it, being a mage requires a completely different narrative than that of a non-mage, barring magical plot nullifiers like being a Grey Warden.

[TEWR]

EJ107 wrote...

But Hawke's father was an apostate, so how would they know that one of Hawke's parents was a mage?

He was captured by Templars for a time, eloped with one of the scions of the greatest families of Kirkwall, worked for a mercenary company, and made friends in the Circle of Kirkwall (Mage and Templar alike).

Additionally, he was pursued by the Templars after he eloped with Leandra.

That's only part of his history.

 

It makes sense for it to be ignored in the narrative. Not to mention even if the chantry did know about them it would have been assumed that they died when the blight hit Lothering. 

He has the same last name of the Mage that was captured long ago and his family claim to be related to the Amells -- Gamlen Amell proves Leandra's claims by helping them get into Kirkwall, acknowledging her as who she is.

Remember, Leandra Amell eloped with an apostate. If Leandra Amell returns to Kirkwall, is acknowledged by her brother to be who she is, and has children that bear the last name of their apostate father, then there's a lot of groundwork for suspicions to be had.

Also, they're related to the Amells of the Ferelden Circle Tower.

[nightscrawl]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

Lol... The worst is probably when you go talk to Cullen about Wilmod and that confrontation happens. Although perhaps he ignores that because you just saved his ass.

That's not it. He literally is just oblivious to it and if you eventually talk to him in the Gallows he'll state...

I've heard some interesting rumors about you/your sister, Hawke. I hope they're not true.

I was making a funny. Apparently not a great one.

Chekov: I was making a little joke, sir.
Spock: Very little, ensign.

[High Kicks]

In DAO, they had moments concerning the Warden being a Blood Mage, but for whatever reason were cut out of the game. There's mods for them, though.

About the the situation in DA2, I read somewhere (I forget) that they just kinda forgot. Or, as I like to say, a lack of team communication. The Combat team knew there was a blood mage specialization, but the writers didn't. Crazy.

[TEWR]

High Kicks wrote...

In DAO, they had moments concerning the Warden being a Blood Mage, but for whatever reason were cut out of the game. There's mods for them, though.

It ended up causing bugs to happen during the Landsmeet portion of the game.

nightscrawl wrote...

I was making a funny. Apparently not a great one.

Chekov: I was making a little joke, sir.
Spock: Very little, ensign.

Sten: Fitting... yes.

[Maria Caliban]

Zanallen wrote...

Bioware should solve this problem by removing the mage class completely,

Or only letting you play a mage, which would have made sense given the plot of DA II and the backstory of Hawke's father.

[Zanallen]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Bioware should solve this problem by removing the mage class completely,

Or only letting you play a mage, which would have made sense given the plot of DA II and the backstory of Hawke's father.

That would work as well, as I addressed in my second post. Removing the option to choose your class would really allow Bioware to involve the PC's class in the storyline.

[Realmzmaster]

The mage class is problematic in the DA universe, but there would be an even bigger outcry if gamers were unable to have their PC play a mage. Bioware is going to have to find a better way to intergrate the mage class in the story.

If part of DA3 involves the mage/templar war then the problem is not as hard because all of the mages are now basically apostates. In DA3 if the gamer makes the PC a mage that character would be an apostate on battling templars and on the run from the seekers.

Mage was a problem in DA2. Mage Hawke should have had a different story from warrior and rogue Hawke. Other companions would like Carver or Aveline would have to find a way to sneak mage Hawke in. The same with Bethany, Hawke has to find a way to sneak her in.
DA3 should not have this problem since the circles have rebelled.