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Biotic and Electric Slash Balance needed or buff Shockwave/Smash


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#1
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Slayer Video

youtu.be/mPAUI7A7Y-8

Shadow video

Pt. 1 - youtu.be/BSML3bxqMaA
Pt. 2 - youtu.be/gDrwSGbcLpw

Gold ES+TC Atlas - youtu.be/GYycTVBAOic
Gold Wraith+TC Atlas - youtu.be/W4PmB1ZkBEQ

Shadow (Infiltrator)

1292.50 every 2.87 seconds

450.44 DPS at 20 meters through walls

Cloaked DPS max (80% Damage Bonus + Fire one power and remain cloaked)

4653 every 5.69 secs

817.75 DPS at 20 meters through walls


Slayer (Vanguard)

1512.5 every 2.87 seconds

527.11 DPS 20 meters through walls


Phoenix Adept/Vanguard

Smash after balance change

1127.50 with Electric Evo every 3.21 sec (Stacking dot, see below for details)

351.22 DPS + Variable Dot at 8 meters through walls

1391.50 with Biotic Evo every 3.21 sec

433.45 DPS at 8 meters through walls


Shockwave (by Request for comparison)

570 damage every 2.19 sec, animation time .50, total time 2.69

211 DPS at 16 meters. This seriously needs a buff, just saying.


Ability specific (thanks Cyonan)

> The Slashes can hit up to 3 targets, while Smash can only hit 2 (3 with Evo 6 Impact radius).
> The Slashes both have an "early hit" which can hit an additional 3 targets for 30% damage. Smash has nothing similar.
> The Slashes can only rag-doll 2 targets. Smash has no hard limit (But can only hit 2-3 targets depending on Evo 6 selection.).
> Electric Slash does 1.5x damage to Shields and Barriers. Biotic Slash does 1.5x damage to Barriers and Armour. Smash does 1.0x to everything unless you take Evo 6 Armor Damage, which then allows it to do 1.75 to Armor and Barriers.
> Smash with Electrical Evo 4 does a 50% dot over 7.5 seconds. This stacks with itself. I have tested after the balance change and determined that with maximum cooldowns (200%, Structural Erg IV, Power Eff IV) you can reach 3 stacked dots versus the 4 you previously could do. The Dot is based off your max damage, so if you had a max of 1127.50, you would have a dot of 563.75 over 7.5 seconds. This would give you a 'tick' of 225.5 DPS if you could maintain 3 dots non-stop. In the example I listed above, that means you would do 576.72 DPS with a maxed electrical Smash and maxed cooldowns.

___________________________________________________________________________________

Now, what does this mean in a gameplay situation? Well we know that Smash was balanced back to it's original CD because stacking 4 dots and doing .75 extra damage to Armor/Barriers was overpowered. It was almost inevitable that you would see at least one PA/PV in almost every farm match due to the amount of damage they could place on target in a short amount of time through walls.

After the balance, and given a short time for players to pick up on how powerful Slashes were, you are now seeing a similar situation in game. The problem is that Slashes have range far in excess of Smash, do more damage, can pre-hit targets for 30% more damage, and gain a dramatic damage boost from Tactical Cloak. A properly specced and played Shadow can apply 817.75 base DPS with no gear or equipment mods. A Slayer can do 527.11base DPS with no gear or equipment mods.

If Smash, which was limited to 8 meters, was overpowered, then Slashes are incredibly overpowered given that they reach 2.5 times as far and do more damage than Smash before the balance change. Either extend the range of Smash and buff Shockwave's damage, or bring the Slash skill in line with Smash.

~edit~

There are some cons obviously to the setup, It needs to be used mostly in a covered area or farming situation. There is no DR apparent in the skill animation and unlike smash you cannot spam from cover. As I've stated though, if Smash is considered to be overpowered pre-balance change and Shockwave is considered to be balanced, then Slash is overpowered when used from cover or when farming. The range, damage, cooldown, and the bonus damage from TC contribute to make the skill much more powerful than Smash or Shockwave. This must be addressed.

Modifié par death_for_sale, 13 août 2012 - 07:18 .


#2
xSNPx ZoDiaC

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Re-buff smash, balance achieved.


You want a cookie or something?

#3
LegacyOfTheAsh

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Be quiet please.

#4
xtorma

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Here we go again.

Yes, by all means nerf the ability. I am sure you will have a new one by next week when this one gets nerfed.

#5
Rebel_Raven

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*Sigh* Again, you only look at the small picture.

I'd try to debate with you, DfS, but I already know you don't care what anyone says, and are absolutely dead set in your plot.

Modifié par Rebel_Raven, 10 août 2012 - 11:39 .


#6
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xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...

Re-buff smash, balance achieved.


You want a cookie or something?


Rebuffing Smash is not the answer, Smash was overpowered when you could stack 4+ dots.

#7
Kyerea

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xtorma wrote...

Here we go again.

Yes, by all means nerf the ability. I am sure you will have a new one by next week when this one gets nerfed.


Took the words right out of my fingers. :P

#8
Uchimura

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death_for_sale wrote...

xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...

Re-buff smash, balance achieved.


You want a cookie or something?


Rebuffing Smash is not the answer, Smash was overpowered when you could stack 4+ dots.


Why didn't they nerf the dot portion instead of the CD?

#9
AresKeith

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xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...

Re-buff smash, balance achieved.


You want a cookie or something?


this

and there's nothing wrong with the slash

Modifié par AresKeith, 10 août 2012 - 11:42 .


#10
svocke2

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just go live in a cave. or don't. just don't make any more topics like this

#11
Kyerea

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[quote]AresKeith wrote...

[quote]xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...

Re-buff smash, balance achieved. [quote]

this

and there's nothing wrong with them[/quote]

Agreed.

If it's okay for GHs to clear Platinum rooms in under 15 minutes, then the Slashes are fine as is and Smash needs to be re-buffed.

Modifié par Kyerea, 10 août 2012 - 11:43 .


#12
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Rebel_Raven wrote...

*Sigh* Again, you only look at the small picture.

I'd try to debate with you, DfS, but I already know you don't care what anyone says, and are absolutely dead set in your plot.


How am I looking at the small picture? This is the next crutch class that people are falling back on to complete difficulties that they would not normally be capable of defeating. The board is lighting up with people complaining about the number of Shadows and Slayers popping up in matches and just using Slash.

You can literally download a macro program and go AFK on these classes for long periods of time, there is no skill involved.

Feel free to bring a debate, if you can dispute what are actual facts.

#13
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Uchimura wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...

Re-buff smash, balance achieved.


You want a cookie or something?


Rebuffing Smash is not the answer, Smash was overpowered when you could stack 4+ dots.


Why didn't they nerf the dot portion instead of the CD?


It would most likely have required a .bin fix, ie a Patch, versus just gimping the CD in the .ini.

#14
joker_jack

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You notice the so called big shots in this game love to hide behind the numbers and when you find a ****** in the armor they come up with some bs logic to back up their claim.

Your not gonna even begin to see balance in this game until 1st the big glitches are fixed and the store system is also fixed. That's not gonna happen given how profitability of the game is set. If no one was to but backs anymore I can almost guarantee the servers would shut down.

#15
svocke2

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death_for_sale wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

*Sigh* Again, you only look at the small picture.

I'd try to debate with you, DfS, but I already know you don't care what anyone says, and are absolutely dead set in your plot.


How am I looking at the small picture? This is the next crutch class that people are falling back on to complete difficulties that they would not normally be capable of defeating. The board is lighting up with people complaining about the number of Shadows and Slayers popping up in matches and just using Slash.

You can literally download a macro program and go AFK on these classes for long periods of time, there is no skill involved.

Feel free to bring a debate, if you can dispute what are actual facts.


actual fact, everyone on this board disagrees with you so far

#16
mrcanada

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Threads like this are killing this game.  

#17
Kyerea

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joker_jack wrote...

You notice the so called big shots in this game love to hide behind the numbers and when you find a ****** in the armor they come up with some bs logic to back up their claim.

Your not gonna even begin to see balance in this game until 1st the big glitches are fixed and the store system is also fixed. That's not gonna happen given how profitability of the game is set. If no one was to but backs anymore I can almost guarantee the servers would shut down.


First off, I love your sig lol.

Second, does anyone here recall the mess that was OP's Piranha thread? Lol. Good times.

svocke2 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

*Sigh* Again, you only look at the small picture. 

I'd try to debate with you, DfS, but I already know you don't care what anyone says, and are absolutely dead set in your plot.


How am I looking at the small picture? This is the next crutch class that people are falling back on to complete difficulties that they would not normally be capable of defeating. The board is lighting up with people complaining about the number of Shadows and Slayers popping up in matches and just using Slash.

You can literally download a macro program and go AFK on these classes for long periods of time, there is no skill involved.

Feel free to bring a debate, if you can dispute what are actual facts.


actual fact, everyone on this board disagrees with you so far

 

Agreed, while I may not like Slash spammers for screen shake reasons, I still score higher than Slashers even when they are trying. Hell, I can be half paying attention on my Destroyer/Geth Hunter/Fury and top score at the 120-130K+ mark in Gold games (along with many other players here using [insert non Slash Shadow/Slayer character]). So by the OP's logic, those characters are broken and imba as well. Oh, Shadows and Slayers Slash spammers can stay in one location and spam an AoE, BDPS ability non-stop? Cool story bro, now I know where to not revive them once they get Bansheecuted or Phantomed. Now if you'll excuse me gentlemen, I'm going to bump my music thread and go play more ME3 MP. I advise everyone here to do something similar instead of feeding threads like this.

OP also assumes most Shadows play as Slashers, I only invest 4 points in the bloody ability and use it as a glorified overload. I use my Shadow in a similar manner that I use my Geth Hunter in, a CQC-Shotty Infiltrator. She top scores just fine in Gold and Plat games. Hell, next week OP will just complain about some other allegedly broken build or character setup.

Modifié par Kyerea, 10 août 2012 - 11:56 .


#18
Cyonan

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I would say that a balance change is needed, but in this case it's to Smash rather than the Slashes.

Both the Slashes are certainly effective when spammed, but they're hardly what I would call overpowered.

If they didn't like Smash's cooldown at 5 seconds, they should increase the damage to compensate.

#19
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joker_jack wrote...

You notice the so called big shots in this game love to hide behind the numbers and when you find a ****** in the armor they come up with some bs logic to back up their claim.

Your not gonna even begin to see balance in this game until 1st the big glitches are fixed and the store system is also fixed. That's not gonna happen given how profitability of the game is set. If no one was to but backs anymore I can almost guarantee the servers would shut down.


I'm not hiding behind numbers, I welcome any debate you might like to put forward. Where is the ****** in the armor you speak of?

#20
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svocke2 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

*Sigh* Again, you only look at the small picture.

I'd try to debate with you, DfS, but I already know you don't care what anyone says, and are absolutely dead set in your plot.


How am I looking at the small picture? This is the next crutch class that people are falling back on to complete difficulties that they would not normally be capable of defeating. The board is lighting up with people complaining about the number of Shadows and Slayers popping up in matches and just using Slash.

You can literally download a macro program and go AFK on these classes for long periods of time, there is no skill involved.

Feel free to bring a debate, if you can dispute what are actual facts.


actual fact, everyone on this board disagrees with you so far


Not so, there are currently 3 other posts on this issue. People already know it is overpowered.

#21
Liddycoat

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Don't blame him, or any other people who want nerfs. They fear that which they do not understand. They fear that which they have no control over. It's primal human behavior. They just can't help it.

#22
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Kyerea wrote...

joker_jack wrote...

You notice the so called big shots in this game love to hide behind the numbers and when you find a ****** in the armor they come up with some bs logic to back up their claim.

Your not gonna even begin to see balance in this game until 1st the big glitches are fixed and the store system is also fixed. That's not gonna happen given how profitability of the game is set. If no one was to but backs anymore I can almost guarantee the servers would shut down.


First off, I love your sig lol.

Second, does anyone here recall the mess that was OP's Piranha thread? Lol. Good times.


Ah yes, the mess that ended up being correct.

#23
RequiemPrime

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OP really needs to find something else to do.

#24
AresKeith

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this isn't about it being op is it?

Are they getting higher scores than you?

#25
svocke2

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whats the point in nerfing these? I dont have the slayer, but it seems to be underpowered compared to the other new N7s. The shadow is capable of far more damage and utility by not using this tactic. Shadow strike can OHK every non-boss on gold if set up correctly.