614 réponses à ce sujet

[Dendio1]

The Tenken wrote...

i really dont get the point of the nerfs to these abilities. I dont know too much about the shadow but as for the slayer i find it to be a fairly weak class besides slash spam and melee invincible fram usage so i would expect to be compensated. Imo is very hard and just plain ole no fun being a vanguard on plat.

Side note: why the need for nerfs... this isnt a competitive game. Is it becuase people feel they are being robbed of fun buy people who they think aren't working as hard. I see no other reason for it May game isnt ruined by kids GI's and slash spammers... i still get my points and my xp so i can get weapons/gear to use when playing with friends. Imo i rather slash spammers then kids running around out of cover and dying every five seconds but thats just me and i have been known to be a little weird lol

The way I see it nerfs/buffs happen to encourage the community to try different playstyles and to keep the game at its intended difficulty level.

[xSNPx ZoDiaC]

That's right guys! Just keep RESPONDING TO THIS ******* THREAD.


Lets get this thread to 50 pgs trying to defend slash! It's not like BioWare will see the 50 ******* PAGES.


If you disagree with the OP... THEN DON'T RESPOND!


Hello? Brain-cell? Common sense anyone? Don't feed the butt-hurt no-life nerf troll? Common-sense??? ANYONE????



ANYONE????????



Move along...

[Zero 2362]

death_for_sale wrote...

Zero 2362 wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

retic wrote...

No. Just no.

Screen shaking aside, the OP makes strong points. Hate it or love it, its legit

If you had been following the thread you would now that the stats he has given have been proven false

The stats were off due to numbers that I did not have access to. They are now updated.

Good to hear. unfortunatly this debate has been joined by someone that wants the power destroyed just so he dosent have to put up with the screen shake. You cant make a logical argument against someone like that so im out

[silencekills]

 It's not just the damage. It's the fact that it has 20 METERS OF RANGE THROUGH WALLS while being able to hit multiple enemies. As long as your paying attention you can survive the entire match doing nothing but that. 

At least with Smash you still have to be fairly close to the enemy.

I don't think they have to be nerfed into oblivion, like the Krysae RoF, but I believe that something has to be done about them. As is, they're basically the rich man's Smash.

Still, Smash gives you the ability to do something you can't with other powers/characters. Pretend to be the Hulk.

[FlowCytometry]

I do wish we never had this 'spam thru walls' paradigm already established, but we're entrenched now so gotta deal w/ it.

The only thing I really want toned down w/ all these related abilities is the screen shake. I get that the effects are part of the experience and 'feel' of the powers, but it really doesn't have to be *that* obnoxious for other players. Screen shakes from friendly sources should have been made greatly reduced compared to screen shakes induced from hostiles- I mean, its not like we have friendly fire so wth BW?


Edit-

Cyonan wrote...

Assuming you run the same spec I do(Damage/Force, Detonation, Recharge Speed) then it does 570 every 2.19 seconds for 260.27 DPS or 390.41 vs Barriers.

Of course, Shockwave gets by on the fact that it's instant(Leaves you less exposed if you aren't using a farm setup and can't hide behind a wall for 95% of the match), as well as having a better BE modifier.

It also beats both of them on force.

Yeah, another big plus for SW is that extra force can help you stagger packs of phantoms if evolved right. Try using slashes or smash when even one phantom already has a bead on you- GL not dying before the anim finishes.
Interesting that the numbers are actually a bit more balanced than the OP props up, but I kinda expect that.

Modifié par FlowCytometry, 11 août 2012 - 03:55 .

[Dendio1]

Zero 2362 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

Zero 2362 wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

retic wrote...

No. Just no.

Screen shaking aside, the OP makes strong points. Hate it or love it, its legit

If you had been following the thread you would now that the stats he has given have been proven false

The stats were off due to numbers that I did not have access to. They are now updated.

Good to hear. unfortunatly this debate has been joined by someone that wants the power destroyed just so he dosent have to put up with the screen shake. You cant make a logical argument against someone like that so im out

You can't make a logical argument against those who read what they want to read. I said I wouldn't care either way.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out

It'd be nice to have an ignore option for people like this guy

Modifié par Dendio1, 11 août 2012 - 03:52 .

[Dendio1]

FlowCytometry wrote...

I do wish we never had this 'spam thru walls' paradigm already established, but we're entrenched now so gotta deal w/ it.

The only thing I really want toned down w/ all these related abilities is the screen shake. I get that the effects are part of the experience and 'feel' of the powers, but it really doesn't have to be *that* obnoxious for other players. Screen shakes from friendly sources should have been made greatly reduced compared to screen shakes induced from hostiles- I mean, its not like we have friendly fire so wth BW?

I agree. I don't find spam through the walls fun. Half the time im not sure if im even hitting something.

[xtorma]

death_for_sale wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

Spamming it will get you killed in -all- maps, unless someone knows something I don't about an ideal camping spot. It's certainly not the tiny room in FBW.

Lol, FBW has a ton of spots to camp from and use these skills.

You should join the balance all things guys, that way you can be peer reviewed, without all of the whining and crying from both sides. It is true that these are discussion boards, but very few people here are willing to put in the work to check your math. If someone from the balance group had not challenged your analysis, then you would still be arguing your point based on inaccurate data.

Asking for a nerf , is like asking for new taxes. There are people that will argue against any tax, no matter what it is for because they are just tired of getting taxed. The only math most people are interested in , is how much it's going to cost them. In this game the currency is power.

Good luck with your crusade.

[Rebel_Raven]

death_for_sale wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

Spamming it will get you killed in -all- maps, unless someone knows something I don't about an ideal camping spot. It's certainly not the tiny room in FBW.

Lol, FBW has a ton of spots to camp from and use these skills. You can see 2 of them in the video I linked.

Make a vid on gold, or platinum depending on how daring you are, and never go down using the tactic of slash spam, then. Also try not to stack the deck in your favor either.

The video containing the word "noob" isn't that great of a spot. You gotta grab the geth sooner or later as they rush you, and the only way you can grab is being in cover. You don't stay in cover when slashing, rather you're vulnerable while using it. It's nowhere near a pop out of cover, use, then duck power.

Or in the case of cerberus, you're not gunna really gunna go slashing guardians to death. Phantoms will block slashes.

Also I'm seeing people dieing, and struggling to kill an atlas, and barely scratching a phantom. Boo hoo, they were using Slashes a lot! They weren't exactly making good progress.

Going back through, I didn't see the other vids you posted.

Also, numbers aren't the end all be all. You're purposely not including several key diffirences. Safety in using the ability, the inability to aim slashes up or down, and so on.

Modifié par Rebel_Raven, 11 août 2012 - 03:56 .

[The Tenken]

Dendio1 wrote...

The Tenken wrote...

i really dont get the point of the nerfs to these abilities. I dont know too much about the shadow but as for the slayer i find it to be a fairly weak class besides slash spam and melee invincible fram usage so i would expect to be compensated. Imo is very hard and just plain ole no fun being a vanguard on plat.

Side note: why the need for nerfs... this isnt a competitive game. Is it becuase people feel they are being robbed of fun buy people who they think aren't working as hard. I see no other reason for it May game isnt ruined by kids GI's and slash spammers... i still get my points and my xp so i can get weapons/gear to use when playing with friends. Imo i rather slash spammers then kids running around out of cover and dying every five seconds but thats just me and i have been known to be a little weird lol

The way I see it nerfs/buffs happen to encourage the community to try different playstyles and to keep the game at its intended difficulty level.

good reply but all i seem to see is nerfs.Bioware should buff some classes so people have other options. I would love to be able to clear plat with a normal human soldier or drellguard or haman inflitrator without wanting to break my game in half. Instead of killing class/abilities to move people away. I would think buffing other classes/abilities would work just as well because we all know there are too many irrelavent classes/abilities/weapons when it comes to platinum 

Modifié par The Tenken, 11 août 2012 - 03:59 .

[xtorma]

xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...

That's right guys! Just keep RESPONDING TO THIS ******* THREAD.


Lets get this thread to 50 pgs trying to defend slash! It's not like BioWare will see the 50 ******* PAGES.


If you disagree with the OP... THEN DON'T RESPOND!


Hello? Brain-cell? Common sense anyone? Don't feed the butt-hurt no-life nerf troll? Common-sense??? ANYONE????



ANYONE????????



Move along...

I am sure the balance all things group is going over all of these powers. I am sure Eric and his crew are doing the same. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that the vast majority of the responses are either people blindly against the nerf without actually doing any testing themselves, or sheeple blindly following the OP because "nerfs are cool".

[SgtAmazing]

Zero 2362 wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

SgtAmazing wrote...

No one I have ever seen who posts these threads ever seems to think about why the abilities may be "over powered." The Slayer and Shadow have horrible shields and armor and cannot take very many hits. Both are best carrying minimal fire power (pistol and / or SMG,) and have close range abilities that can get them killed instantly. Maybe the damage is to compensate for being very weak. These characters do not operate very well with anything other than pistols or SMGs because of the recharge speed of their powers, so you end up sacrificing firepower for tech and biotics. You shouldnt be thinking about balancing them with other characters, but balancing them with themselves. The slayer is fast, can teleport through walls, use biotic slash, sacrifices shields for phase disruptor, biotic jumps into enemy while having horrible shields / health. Maybe biotic slash is the way it is because of all the negatives.  Shadow can be spotted and hit prior to getting her shadow strike off getting her killed fairly quickley. 

Both classes operates perfectly well with Piranah equipped.

Everything operates perfectly well with piranha equipped. Your point is moot

My point is the person who started this thread failed to look at the characters themselves to see if they themselves are balanced.  Instead, they quickly noticed smash was not as good as Biotic / Electric slash and started complaining without looking at all the facts.

Now to the piranha, I am not the run around out in the open exposing myself to the enemy all the time type of player.  Thats not how I was taught to engage the enemy.  With the slayer and shadow, its best to take cover and expose yourself as little as possible, while doing as much damage as you can.  Fortunately you can use the slash abilities through walls because, if not, your animation leaves you more exposed than just standing out there.  You need the extra damage, range, and the ability to go through walls with both of them.  Not over powered. If I am using the piranha, I am close to the enemy for max damage, and exposing myself to other enemy in the area.  I can cloak with the shadow, but in higher difficulties, its harder to get in close and get out without getting seen and shot. 

[Dendio1]

xtorma wrote...

xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...

That's right guys! Just keep RESPONDING TO THIS ******* THREAD.


Lets get this thread to 50 pgs trying to defend slash! It's not like BioWare will see the 50 ******* PAGES.


If you disagree with the OP... THEN DON'T RESPOND!


Hello? Brain-cell? Common sense anyone? Don't feed the butt-hurt no-life nerf troll? Common-sense??? ANYONE????



ANYONE????????



Move along...

I am sure the balance all things group is going over all of these powers. I am sure Eric and his crew are doing the same. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that the vast majority of the responses are either people blindly against the nerf without actually doing any testing themselves, or sheeple blindly following the OP because "nerfs are cool".

From where im standing i see people who blindly are against the notion of nerfing it, because *screw nerfs*
I also see people lamenting the screen shake
Then you have people who agree the slashes in their current form are OP compared to similar abilities

[Cole Jones]

You do realize they are made for Gold and Plat right? I don't think you do. Please shut up before they consider screwing up 2 pretty damn good reserve powers ok?

[AwesomeDudex64]

Noone even uses Slash as their main source of damage. Also the damage is adequate, not devastating so if anything needs to be changed, it's the recharge speed.

Modifié par AwesomeDudex64, 11 août 2012 - 04:02 .

[AresKeith]

death_for_sale wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

still not overpowered, crowd control and re-buff Smash

They can't rebuff Smash because it was overpowered before. I don't know how you can't understand this.

you don't seem to understand that Smash basically is the slash was never overpowered, I've said this so many times already those powers are used as crowd control, I've seen slayers and shadow goes down more than everybody by using them

[Dream-Maker]

Your numbers still don't take into account the specificities this moves have other than DPS except range and the number of hittable targets. No mention of vertical orientation, roll cancellability, smash being way safer to use than the slashes in the open (even more so for shockwave).

They don't factor in the impact of priming/detonating effects and force on damage either. Therefore the analysis is still incomplete/biaised IMO.

As I said I'm not against an adjustment in cooldown to match smash's cooldown but the advantages smash has over these powers are way overlooked. Also shockwave is meant to be a crowd controle and biotic combo move rather than a damage one, it's also spammable as hell compared to any of these. Still could use a small buff though.

Modifié par Dream-Maker, 11 août 2012 - 04:10 .

[TeamLexana]

If anything, Shockwave just needs to be buffed again but nothing nerfed. Smash and both the Electric and Biotic Slash have long animations that leave you very exposed to damage. The Slashes even more so since the user jumps forward. The ES is the ONLY POWER the Shadow can use while carrying the pizza without dropping it or messing up the escort so it needs to be strong and the BS is just straight dangerous for the Slayer to use at all, so it also needs to strong to justify it's use or justify the Slayer at all really above Silver.

[jamesfrom818]

If these abilities get nerfed, I'm quitting MP. This will be the straw that breaks this camel's back. Too many people whining and I don't even spam either of the slashes.

[Rebel_Raven]

death_for_sale wrote...

I linked one video, there were two slash classes in two different spots. They were actually in two of the worst spots.

If you think that you can't use the ability safely behind a wall, you aren't doing it right.

You don't aim slashes up or down, they have a vertical component only.

You can only aim slashes horizontally. They don't go up, or down, unlike other powers of a similar nature.

You're still denying pros and cons of the ability that balance it out vs other abilities which still shows incredible bias, and faulty testings, which is nothing new to your attempts to nerf things, honestly.

You're also ignoring the rest of the class, and classes which help determine balance, too.

I'm asking you back up your findings personally, and show them. You've already messed up several times in your presentings.

Modifié par Rebel_Raven, 11 août 2012 - 04:21 .

[TehMerc]

Rifneno wrote...

If they haven't nerfed the most broken ability in the game, Nova

Wow.

I came in with popcorn in hand but I didn't expect to see such beauty of a misinformed or just plain dumb thought, even from this thread. I'm still laughing pretty hard.

Anyways, to the point; don't really care myself if they change the cooldown or damage, it's a boring ability with little risk if you're using it ingelligently. I still like Phase Disruptor more and I'd rather see that increased anyways (meh screw shadows anyhow).