614 réponses à ce sujet

[maloo78]

Also, can we please stop being envious of someone else playing better, more efficiently or the screen shaking, and then running to the forum to post a nerf request??

If you play PUG and the players sucked: choose a new team
If you play with friends: talk to them about it

It IS a Coop game, and you will get credits and xp for what the group achieved - no matter if you scored first or last. So stop whining. If you don't like the Shadow, don't use it and don't play with others that use it. Simple. It's just a game, man.

[Rebel_Raven]

death_for_sale wrote...

I took down far more than one Prime, and the entire point was that you use Slash from cover. The tactic is no different from the same tactic used with Smash, which was balanced because it was overpowered. There was plenty of death spam with Slash on it and even a killstreak from slash.

It doesn't matter what map I test on, because the entire point is that you can farm easily with this skill. I can video a Glacier Platinum pug and spam it from the camp point there, just like you would do with Smash pre-balance.

Forgive me for using my weapon a couple of times and/or melee. It was reflex more than anything.

In any case, I did your test and showed you what it was capable of. If you don't care for it, continue to disagree with me. But the skill will be balanced, mark my words.

Wait you used it from cover? What cover? Where was that fabled wall of protection you were going to spam behind? Your slayer got annihillated trying to spam it, -then- tried to get to cover dying a few times in the process. A lot of classes could've gotten similar results while actually firing guns and powers from cover.

You killed primes? With a missile, and towards the end which was no doubt softened up. Got a time for any other prime kills? Oh, wait, the other people shooting them probably had a good hand in it, didn't they?

Kill streak? Puhleez, probably from taking out turrets, and goon units. That's not that big of a feat. grenades can do it, too, I'm sure.

You said it was safe to spam there. It's not, evidently, as I said. You even got ambushed just like I said you would by a geth pyro.

You died the most, which kinda proves the fact the power's not as safe as you make it out to be, obviously, but you ignore that little fact coz it obviously has no downsides.

Pros, and cons make the balance, not just damage.

Again, Xtorma has a point and so does k3ttl3black.

As far as it getting balanced, it won't be by you, evidently coz you don't know what you're talking about despite all the numbers.

Leave balance to bioware.

[DungeonHoek]

death_for_sale wrote...

xtorma wrote...

Not enough controls on the video. We know your spec, but we don't know anyone elses. We don't know thier loadouts, we don't know if they bothered using equipment in a farming game. we see geth falling, but that is true in every farm game, and it didn't look to me like they were falling any faster then they would have if a destroyer or demolisher or most any class were behind the same counter. The time is about normal for a pug. If the power was super op i would have expected a lot faster of a time.

How many characters do you think could have taken your place and posted close to the same results?

If a player can stand in that same spot with a destroyer, playing with the same people, with the same loadouts, getting the same objectives and score just as much as you spamming biotic slash, then the classes are balanced. You may not like the fact that all the guy has to do is push one button over and over, but thats the nature of the game. All the destroyer would have to do would be to point and fire a piranha. in such a close narrow area, he would kill just as fast if not faster.

Now insert most high dps player classes in place of the destroyer and you would get results that would be pretty close to yours, you would just get there in a different way.

Balance is not about making every power do the exact same damage as every other power, balance is about making every character have the potential to be just as effective as any other character.

I didn't know their specs or loadouts, it was a PUG match. The Destroyer has already received one balance hit and to be honest is still overpowered. Same as the Demolisher in capable hands. Infiltrators, sure, pretty much still overpowered. But with all of them, this is the only skill that requires no skill and one button press.

So let me get this straight, and do tell me I am wrong. Something is OP if it's being used effectively in capable hands?. So, if I can use my demolisher properly and hold down an area because I know my equipment and its capabilities because I play alot and the layout of the maps I play and my enemies and how they attack to the point that with a proper team we can handle Platinum despite any potentiol setbacks?

And that no other skill has auto-tracking, oh wait, almost all of them do. Infact, the sniper rifles have an auto-track which you can use to quick scope the enemies instead of scoping around to snipe them. Yet no one cries about that, or the fact that other biotics and such zoom right into the enemy.

I saw your video, and I am not impressed by your evidence VS your crusade. It's non-evidence that lacks true unbiased information and just contains your word. Which given everything I have seen lately, I find nothing of your word to take seriously. Really, I am just lead to believe you hate the skills and have some personal vendetta against them.

[Road Wulf]

Despite all the negativity, I do agree with one thing. Shockwave could use a nice Buffing. ME2 Shockwave is like Biotic Slash is now.  The ME3 version isn't even close.   Smash's damage is fine IMO, but I wouldn't mind a few more meters on range. The range should be the length of the lashes plus like 5-10 meters.

Modifié par Road Wulf, 11 août 2012 - 09:50 .

[joker_jack]

death_for_sale wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I took down far more than one Prime, and the entire point was that you use Slash from cover. The tactic is no different from the same tactic used with Smash, which was balanced because it was overpowered. There was plenty of death spam with Slash on it and even a killstreak from slash.

It doesn't matter what map I test on, because the entire point is that you can farm easily with this skill. I can video a Glacier Platinum pug and spam it from the camp point there, just like you would do with Smash pre-balance.

Forgive me for using my weapon a couple of times and/or melee. It was reflex more than anything.

In any case, I did your test and showed you what it was capable of. If you don't care for it, continue to disagree with me. But the skill will be balanced, mark my words.

Wait you used it from cover? What cover? Where was that fabled wall of protection you were going to spam behind? Your slayer got annihillated trying to spam it, -then- tried to get to cover dying a few times in the process. A lot of classes could've gotten similar results while actually firing guns and powers from cover.

You killed primes? With a missile, and towards the end which was no doubt softened up. Got a time for any other prime kills? Oh, wait, the other people shooting them probably had a good hand in it, didn't they?

Kill streak? Puhleez, probably from taking out turrets, and goon units. That's not that big of a feat. grenades can do it, too, I'm sure.

You said it was safe to spam there. It's not, evidently, as I said. You even got ambushed just like I said you would by a geth pyro.

You died the most, which kinda proves the fact the power's not as safe as you make it out to be, obviously, but you ignore that little fact coz it obviously has no downsides.

Pros, and cons make the balance, not just damage.

Again, Xtorma has a point and so does k3ttl3black.

As far as it getting balanced, it won't be by you, evidently coz you don't know what you're talking about despite all the numbers.

Leave balance to bioware.

I think you and I are not going to agree on this, no matter what. Suffice it to say, I feel the power needs to be balanced if Bioware felt Smash was overpowered. I respect your opinion, but I disagree with it fully.

I just finished my average joe Using fb Giant on gold with her. No camping, Average set up. Electric slash isn't op when it comes to trying to take down 2 atlas's. The regening sheilds make sure of that.

*edit: took 10 minutes to take down 2 atlas using mainly electric slash. The regening sheilds are where we see es begin to faulter bad.

Modifié par joker_jack, 11 août 2012 - 10:29 .

[Rebel_Raven]

death_for_sale wrote...

I think you and I are not going to agree on this, no matter what. Suffice it to say, I feel the power needs to be balanced if Bioware felt Smash was overpowered. I respect your opinion, but I disagree with it fully.

That's fine we don't agree. What kind of a person would I be if I didn't let other people have their opinions? What kind of a person would I be if I bludgeoned people over the head with my opinion, and gave up nothing, ever?

Funny thing here. I don't care what bioware does with the slashes for better or worse. They could nerf it, and I wouldn't care. They'd be better equipped to balance a power than any one of us, or even a group of us.

I -do- care that calling for nerfs kills morale, irritates people, and is a cancer on this board that's killing off the people who want to have fun, and breathe life into this board.

I -do- care that people try to skew data, and try to get things nerfed when they ignore a flarghton of other information just to try and shove their point across. Like being blasted out of one's boots trying to spam it, or dying when they get up close and personal with a certain weapon.

Getting high, and mighty, and not listening to people, say people who've actually tried to do what you did, and met with similar results, isn't going to get you far.

You're not always right, and pretending you are just sets you up for, well, you trying to prove people wrong, and not managing it.

Why not leave the negative balancing to bioware, relaxing a bit, and maybe take up a new hobby like, oh, trying to get them to buff shockwave like you said it needs? Or the Locust? You might even get some PMs from people that aren't hateful. :3

Or put your time, and energy into going after fixes for bugs, and gltiches like that Vanguard Glitch?

If it needs nerfing, Bioware'll do it, I'm sure. Buffing something like a weapon meaningfully? I dunno. haha

Modifié par Rebel_Raven, 11 août 2012 - 09:56 .

[Jovian09]

Statistics mean very little. In practice, I believe Electric/Biotic Slash are useful abilities but not overpowered.. Shadow (I haven't unlocked Slayer, but I'll assume the same thing goes) requires a good deal of skill to play well; for Electric Slash to be used effectively it needs to be causing tech bursts primed by Shadow Strike. That means exposing yourself at very close range. Slayer is restricted by the same obvious limitations of the vanguard class.

I don't feel Smash needs a buffing, but it would be nice if more people were using Shockwave classes. I might have to roll out a human adept or something and see how a shockwave setup does on gold. xD

ED: Also rebel_raven thanks for being a bit awesome there. I was worried i was stepping into a snakepit...

Modifié par Jovian09, 11 août 2012 - 10:09 .

[nicethugbert]

Shockwave needs love, specifically, faster recharge.

[ABjerre]

Kyerea wrote...

xtorma wrote...

Here we go again.

Yes, by all means nerf the ability. I am sure you will have a new one by next week when this one gets nerfed.

Took the words right out of my fingers.

+1

Last weeks performance: Piranha (betting closed)
Current project: Slash (betting closed)
Next project: Unknown. Now taking bets.

[Nissun]

It's the people that make excessive use of biotic and electric slash that are detrimental to them. I've player with two kinds of Slayers and Shadows: One kind showed me the wonders of using phase disruptor, and how to effectively use shadow strike.

The other kind used b/e slash almost exclusively and were annoying as hell.

If people continue spamming these abilitites, they will be severely changed in the future. If you like the slashes, do not abuse them. You have other two abilities and a weapon, do not ignore them.

Please play responsibly.

[xtorma]

death_for_sale wrote...

xtorma wrote...

Not enough controls on the video. We know your spec, but we don't know anyone elses. We don't know thier loadouts, we don't know if they bothered using equipment in a farming game. we see geth falling, but that is true in every farm game, and it didn't look to me like they were falling any faster then they would have if a destroyer or demolisher or most any class were behind the same counter. The time is about normal for a pug. If the power was super op i would have expected a lot faster of a time.

How many characters do you think could have taken your place and posted close to the same results?

If a player can stand in that same spot with a destroyer, playing with the same people, with the same loadouts, getting the same objectives and score just as much as you spamming biotic slash, then the classes are balanced. You may not like the fact that all the guy has to do is push one button over and over, but thats the nature of the game. All the destroyer would have to do would be to point and fire a piranha. in such a close narrow area, he would kill just as fast if not faster.

Now insert most high dps player classes in place of the destroyer and you would get results that would be pretty close to yours, you would just get there in a different way.

Balance is not about making every power do the exact same damage as every other power, balance is about making every character have the potential to be just as effective as any other character.

I didn't know their specs or loadouts, it was a PUG match. The Destroyer has already received one balance hit and to be honest is still overpowered. Same as the Demolisher in capable hands. Infiltrators, sure, pretty much still overpowered. But with all of them, this is the only skill that requires no skill and one button press.

How much skill does it take to fire a proxy mine?
How much skill does it take to activate tech scan?
How much skill does it take to cloak bomb a spawn with arc grenades

I could go on and on.

Would you be willing to say that if I had to push 2 different buttons to kill a mob instead of pushing 1 button twice, that pushing two different buttons is twice as hard? 

It sounds to me like you are frustrated with the game because it is too easy for you. You want every class to require the same skill as every other class to be just as viable. I understand that. I am going to assume this assessment is correct and that you are indeed a very good player.  

You died multiple times in a gold farm match that everyone in the entire world knows how to play without dieing. Did you die because you lacked skill? or maybe you died because the power you were using required you to put yourself in a position to be shot. If you are a very good player, then I would assume that a player of less skill would be dieing much more often than you in the same circumstances. So your assertion that the class power takes "no" skill is false.

You showed only one way to play the class using that one skill. The camper. It's common knowledge to all of us here that camping takes very little skill no matter what power you use on fbwgg. The mobs funnel into a killzone. You stated above to one of your supporters that it doesn't matter what map you play, there are places to camp where you are in no danger of being killed.  I agree with that, I can do the same with any class, but how would that effect my contribution to the team? do you think that map choice had something to do with your score?

You put a lot of work into this, and I can respect that, but the only thing you have proven to me (i can't speak for anyone else) Is that you can trade dieing on a map that you shouldn't be for a decent score. You have not proven that the class takes no skill to play.

I have witnessed many classes play that same map, and earn higher scores than you did faster. That indicates to me that the power is not op. Cheap? maybe, but not a balance issue. At least not for the slayer.

[IllusiveManJr]

*insert popcorn GIF here*

[ScreamingRaptor]

Nerd the Slash is just like taking away Stasis from Asari Adept.
So, STFU and be quiet.

[xtorma]

I see you changed the title, I will join you in asking for a buff to shockwave. You have convinced me on that power.

[joker_jack]

xtorma wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

xtorma wrote...

Not enough controls on the video. We know your spec, but we don't know anyone elses. We don't know thier loadouts, we don't know if they bothered using equipment in a farming game. we see geth falling, but that is true in every farm game, and it didn't look to me like they were falling any faster then they would have if a destroyer or demolisher or most any class were behind the same counter. The time is about normal for a pug. If the power was super op i would have expected a lot faster of a time.

How many characters do you think could have taken your place and posted close to the same results?

If a player can stand in that same spot with a destroyer, playing with the same people, with the same loadouts, getting the same objectives and score just as much as you spamming biotic slash, then the classes are balanced. You may not like the fact that all the guy has to do is push one button over and over, but thats the nature of the game. All the destroyer would have to do would be to point and fire a piranha. in such a close narrow area, he would kill just as fast if not faster.

Now insert most high dps player classes in place of the destroyer and you would get results that would be pretty close to yours, you would just get there in a different way.

Balance is not about making every power do the exact same damage as every other power, balance is about making every character have the potential to be just as effective as any other character.

I didn't know their specs or loadouts, it was a PUG match. The Destroyer has already received one balance hit and to be honest is still overpowered. Same as the Demolisher in capable hands. Infiltrators, sure, pretty much still overpowered. But with all of them, this is the only skill that requires no skill and one button press.

How much skill does it take to fire a proxy mine?
How much skill does it take to activate tech scan?
How much skill does it take to cloak bomb a spawn with arc grenades

I could go on and on.

Would you be willing to say that if I had to push 2 different buttons to kill a mob instead of pushing 1 button twice, that pushing two different buttons is twice as hard? 

It sounds to me like you are frustrated with the game because it is too easy for you. You want every class to require the same skill as every other class to be just as viable. I understand that. I am going to assume this assessment is correct and that you are indeed a very good player.  

You died multiple times in a gold farm match that everyone in the entire world knows how to play without dieing. Did you die because you lacked skill? or maybe you died because the power you were using required you to put yourself in a position to be shot. If you are a very good player, then I would assume that a player of less skill would be dieing much more often than you in the same circumstances. So your assertion that the class power takes "no" skill is false.

You showed only one way to play the class using that one skill. The camper. It's common knowledge to all of us here that camping takes very little skill no matter what power you use on fbwgg. The mobs funnel into a killzone. You stated above to one of your supporters that it doesn't matter what map you play, there are places to camp where you are in no danger of being killed.  I agree with that, I can do the same with any class, but how would that effect my contribution to the team? do you think that map choice had something to do with your score?

You put a lot of work into this, and I can respect that, but the only thing you have proven to me (i can't speak for anyone else) Is that you can trade dieing on a map that you shouldn't be for a decent score. You have not proven that the class takes no skill to play.

I have witnessed many classes play that same map, and earn higher scores than you did faster. That indicates to me that the power is not op. Cheap? maybe, but not a balance issue. At least not for the slayer.

I just finished up My solo and found the biggest ****** in the armor. This power does crap to bosses It took me 10 minutes to take down 2 atlas's (and I ended up missileing one because I don't think people will watch a 20 minute race vid). The mooks arer where this power is useful in regular matches. In a boss fight your better off shooting it with a missile is you can spare. ES doesn't do well with regenering sheilds and barriers (as you will see in the vid).

*edit:
Vid will post in the late morning. Already early moring and need some sleep.

Modifié par joker_jack, 11 août 2012 - 11:05 .

[retic]

"balance" either slashes? Pffft. No. LEVEL UP your game.

As for shockwave...you can count on my support. Now that's an underused power IMO.

[C I T I 2 E N X_]

So sick to death of all the nerf herders on here! It's pathetic just stfu and play the game already!

[Major Durza]

Oh boy oh boy, you people have drawn me into this.  Death just refuting legitimate arguments with a "meh, we'll never agree, but I am right", and the whole deal.  Same ****, different toilet here.

This skill lacks versatility, you can only use it is specific situations.  In these situations it may come close to various weapon damages.
May come CLOSE to weapon damages, as it stands a good deal of weapons outdamage both of these abilities. (All 3, whatever) Particularly if you are inclined to use amps.  It has been brought up in your "Balance all the things" thread, and such a fact does not seem to be getting much attention here, either.

Except for this:
[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]Cyonan wrote...

 I'm just going to throw this out here, because I can:

The DPS of Electric Slash(No Cloak): 450.44
The DPS of Biotic Slash: 527.11
The DPS of Smash: 433.45
The DPS of my Avenger X: 559.68

Our course of action is clear: We must nerf the Avenger.[/quote]

Your avenger doesn't go through walls and requires at least some sort of aim. It also does not have innate bonuses to damage without mods.

[/quote] 

You DO realize that we are talking about one of the most GARBAGE weapons in the game, right?  It does not outdamage a garbage COMMON weapon?  We are not even getting to more powerful weapons like the Phaeston, Scimitar, Viper, or Eviscerator.  What about the rares, Claymore, Graal, GPS, Widow, ARC PISTOL?  Come on.  Furthermore, now you are acknowledging that people use weapons without MODS?  Really?
Way to go back on the basis of one of your arguments!

[quote]Ashen Earth wrote...

[quote]Immortal Strife wrote...

I'm very disappointed Death, I thought you were going to show the Slayer being bad ass. Next time you attempt to prove a case for something being OP please use a natural setting not a farm run.[/quote]

Either you're being facetious, or you didn't see his Piranha "balance" thread where he claimed the gun was OP on squishy casters, and "proved" it by buffing his shields to 1200k+ and killing the first three waves of Cerberus grunts and one Atlas on Firebase Glacier.

He has a habit of skewing his tests when arguing something is OP.

[/quote]


Well, now he is showing how easy it is to FARM with this power!  Anyone knows that balancing around farming is going to make something worthless outside of those controlled circumstances.




Agreed

/thread


[quote]Ashen Earth wrote...

[quote]Immortal Strife wrote...

I'm very disappointed Death, I thought you were going to show the Slayer being bad ass. Next time you attempt to prove a case for something being OP please use a natural setting not a farm run.[/quote]

Either you're being facetious, or you didn't see his Piranha "balance" thread where he claimed the gun was OP on squishy casters, and "proved" it by buffing his shields to 1200k+ and killing the first three waves of Cerberus grunts and one Atlas on Firebase Glacier.

He has a habit of skewing his tests when arguing something is OP.

[/quote]

He did not even confront a Phantom with that thing.  It is not nearly as easy as it sounds, but then again he would have arc-naded the shields away and used that for over half the damage dealt to it.  Taking out a Phantom with a Piranha by itself when it is not amped to godhood takes about a clip and a half if you track her flips well.

Either way, his skew here failed rather epically.  As shown here, complete with his "meh, you disagree, but I am right" rebuttal:


[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]Rebel_Raven wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]JAMiAM wrote...

[quote]joker_jack wrote...

Death try this setup on london against reapers. FBWGG hardly proves your case.[/quote]

Easy enough to do, if you can persuade the team to camp in the LZ, behind the car.  Unfortunately, most prefer the 'common wisdom' and IMO less optimal spot of the balcony.

Death, if you need another Slayer to do a vid of Gold London Reapers using slash tactics, let me know.  Mine might be a bit OP, since he's level 20 now...[/quote]

It really doesn't matter Jam, this is the standard response that I always get. Doesn't matter what map I choose, some know it all will jump up and say "well gimp the character and use it on this map on platinum and you'll see how weak it is".

I was simply levelling the character and figured I would video it as an example. I'm not trying to say anything about the score, but I did exactly what I said was possible. You find a spot and hang there, maybe with one backup spot, then profit. People are idiots if they think there is not a similar camp spot on any other map.

[/quote]

Huh I thought you'd have rebutted against me by now considering it was my challenge you accepted.

You said it was safe there! YOU DIED! More than ANYONE ELSE! You were blasted to within an inch of your life more times than not! You were driven to cover almost every time they got down the stairs.  That other angle I mentioned you could get ambushed from? Pyro roasted you coming from it, didn't it? Didn't catch him with the almighty biotic slash, did you?
Anyone using a power they can use cover with, or shooting a gun could've just grabbed'em, and disposed of him or waited until they had their shields back, and then grabbed him. Or let someone else do it.

The whole challenge you answered was to find a place where you could spam safely! 
I was expecting an untouchable slayer spamming endlessly, never needing to duck, never needing a res! 

What do we see? We get your rendition of how to stay in one spot, and die using slashes like pretty much everyone says will happen when you rely on it, and yet you oh so lovingly ignored the risk in your crusade. Doesn't matter! Anyone spamming from behind a wall is safe! RIGHT?! 

You ignored your own information using the talon on the geth rocket trooper on the ledge! And meleed another Geth! By all means, you should have used biotic slash, and used the close range extra damage instead of the talon, or your melee! Surely the long windup of the Biotic Slash, low health, and shields would've been trumped by the immense, broken damage it does! <.<

Your slayer got his ass kicked when he was fired on, flat out. I know you didn't have full fitness but fitness isn't everyone's priority, and even if you did have full fitness you prolly would've been blasted out of your boots all the same. Or stacked his barriers even more. <.<

Lets not forget how quick that IMMENSE damage from BS took down those Geth Primes!... wait, you killed all of one of them, and cowered from the majority of them plinking them with Biotic slash the rest of the time when you weren't ducking for your life. Oh, and using a missile on one of them. Why not Biotic Slash?

But hold on! You scored higher than everyone else! OH NO!! Only the mighty slaying Slayer, and the ultimate killer the shadow can EVER do that with their slashes!... wait, no, it happens often enough with all sorts of characters. Outside of farming situations no less.

So what leg are you going to try and stand on now in your crusade against the ultimate power of death, and destruction that so rightfully needs to be nerfed because it's obviously useful in every situation, and so uber deadly?

Don't sweep me under the rug just coz you failed to hold up your end of the challenge, and a lot of people arguing agianst your claims were right.[/quote]

I took down far more than one Prime, and the entire point was that you use Slash from cover. The tactic is no different from the same tactic used with Smash, which was balanced because it was overpowered. There was plenty of death spam with Slash on it and even a killstreak from slash.

It doesn't matter what map I test on, because the entire point is that you can farm easily with this skill. I can video a Glacier Platinum pug and spam it from the camp point there, just like you would do with Smash pre-balance.

Forgive me for using my weapon a couple of times and/or melee. It was reflex more than anything.

In any case, I did your test and showed you what it was capable of. If you don't care for it, continue to disagree with me. But the skill will be balanced, mark my words.

[/quote] 

As you could see from the Piranha thread, he does NOT even CONSIDER versatility.  He tests EVERYTHING on farm runs (Glacier, FBWGG) he says it is good in the ONE situation with THESE characters with THESE amps, therefore it must be nerfed so that it is only mediocre in these circumstances.

And no, it is because your weapon or melee outdoes Biotic Slash in those situations.  That is to say, outside of very controlled circumstances.

Anyways, this is the best note to finish this response:

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...
the entire point is that you can farm easily with this skill.
[/quote]

[joker_jack]

death_for_sale wrote...

joker_jack wrote...

xtorma wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

xtorma wrote...

Not enough controls on the video. We know your spec, but we don't know anyone elses. We don't know thier loadouts, we don't know if they bothered using equipment in a farming game. we see geth falling, but that is true in every farm game, and it didn't look to me like they were falling any faster then they would have if a destroyer or demolisher or most any class were behind the same counter. The time is about normal for a pug. If the power was super op i would have expected a lot faster of a time.

How many characters do you think could have taken your place and posted close to the same results?

If a player can stand in that same spot with a destroyer, playing with the same people, with the same loadouts, getting the same objectives and score just as much as you spamming biotic slash, then the classes are balanced. You may not like the fact that all the guy has to do is push one button over and over, but thats the nature of the game. All the destroyer would have to do would be to point and fire a piranha. in such a close narrow area, he would kill just as fast if not faster.

Now insert most high dps player classes in place of the destroyer and you would get results that would be pretty close to yours, you would just get there in a different way.

Balance is not about making every power do the exact same damage as every other power, balance is about making every character have the potential to be just as effective as any other character.

I didn't know their specs or loadouts, it was a PUG match. The Destroyer has already received one balance hit and to be honest is still overpowered. Same as the Demolisher in capable hands. Infiltrators, sure, pretty much still overpowered. But with all of them, this is the only skill that requires no skill and one button press.

How much skill does it take to fire a proxy mine?
How much skill does it take to activate tech scan?
How much skill does it take to cloak bomb a spawn with arc grenades

I could go on and on.

Would you be willing to say that if I had to push 2 different buttons to kill a mob instead of pushing 1 button twice, that pushing two different buttons is twice as hard? 

It sounds to me like you are frustrated with the game because it is too easy for you. You want every class to require the same skill as every other class to be just as viable. I understand that. I am going to assume this assessment is correct and that you are indeed a very good player.  

You died multiple times in a gold farm match that everyone in the entire world knows how to play without dieing. Did you die because you lacked skill? or maybe you died because the power you were using required you to put yourself in a position to be shot. If you are a very good player, then I would assume that a player of less skill would be dieing much more often than you in the same circumstances. So your assertion that the class power takes "no" skill is false.

You showed only one way to play the class using that one skill. The camper. It's common knowledge to all of us here that camping takes very little skill no matter what power you use on fbwgg. The mobs funnel into a killzone. You stated above to one of your supporters that it doesn't matter what map you play, there are places to camp where you are in no danger of being killed.  I agree with that, I can do the same with any class, but how would that effect my contribution to the team? do you think that map choice had something to do with your score?

You put a lot of work into this, and I can respect that, but the only thing you have proven to me (i can't speak for anyone else) Is that you can trade dieing on a map that you shouldn't be for a decent score. You have not proven that the class takes no skill to play.

I have witnessed many classes play that same map, and earn higher scores than you did faster. That indicates to me that the power is not op. Cheap? maybe, but not a balance issue. At least not for the slayer.

I just finished up My solo and found the biggest ****** in the armor. This power does crap to bosses It took me 10 minutes to take down 2 atlas's (and I ended up missileing one because I don't think people will watch a 20 minute race vid). The mooks arer where this power is useful in regular matches. In a boss fight your better off shooting it with a missile is you can spare. ES doesn't do well with regenering sheilds and barriers (as you will see in the vid).

*edit:
Vid will post in the late morning. Already early moring and need some sleep.

It will be interesting to see. I'm not quite sure how you managed to take 10 minutes to kill an Atlas.

You'll notice I say 2 atlas's. And you forget about this powers inabilty to take down bosses well. Regnerating sheilds. And you should read a post before you respond.

[Kalas Magnus]

nicethugbert wrote...

Shockwave needs love, specifically, faster recharge.

Ikr. Some guy was telling me to respec my nova-guard for a shock-guard. He said it tore through mooks.<_< 
I do like the biotic explosion damage though.