614 réponses à ce sujet

[RGZ Archer]

DungeonHoek wrote...

RGZ Archer wrote...

DungeonHoek wrote...

RGZ Archer wrote...

DungeonHoek wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

RGZ Archer wrote...
If you have headsets you can use it a lot better. My team for example fires biotic slash in a staggered formation. One person fires, then when they are about halfway through the animation the second person activates their biotic slash. When they are halfway through theirs the third person activates theirs.

The result is a constant stream of biotic slashs as just when the third player is halfway through the animation of their biotic slash the first players has finished its cool down and can be activated again.

Its kind of like that old trick musketeers used, line men up in a three line formation, fire, reload, prime, cycle the steps through each line so one of them is always firing.

This allows you to prevent enemies from ever moving really since the constant stream of biotic slashs DO stagger anything short of a banshee. Depending on the map, this can allow you complete control of the field and prevent any enemy from reaching you.

This can be built onto with the use of an N7 Fury or QMI, using Dark Channel or Tactical Scan, you weaken stronger enemies and slow them down at the same time. Same with Salaran Infiltrator using Prox mine, only then you can weaken AND slow entire groups.

In short, the power isnt just OP because of what it does, but also the various combinations you can use it for to really punish the board.

It just takes a lot of pratice, which farmers get more than anyone else

An ideal circumstance that only a handful make use of, and the rest get punished over while most farmers don't care.

Not everyone farms all the time, plays with mics all the time, uses/has lvl IV gear, etc.

If people want to end farming, give the enemy a more diverse arsenal, and stop punishing everyone carelessly.

Maybe grenades?

I would suggest entirely new units and changing how enemies interact with each other.

Such as for example, Cerberus gaining a heavily armored variant of the Centurion that carries a chain gun. And sticks very close to the Guardian, using him as cover. As well as make him hard to stun with or without aid.

He could be a heavy pressure/supressing unit that could take a walloping and give one.

Or a medic class for the enemy, we have to scramble to kill Combat engineer's when they are healing Atlas's and turrets after all. Why not similar for trooper units?. That would really suck when Phantoms are on the field.

There are more that can be thought up , but, these sort of things could change the game up.

I still think they could just take the Collectors data from ME2 and do a little touch ups and introduce them as a fourth faction. They had more units than the Geth do in ME3, and it wouldnt be that difficult since the PS3 version of ME2 was coded with the combat and physics coding/engine for ME3, it was the testbed for the coding for crying out loud.

That aside, if they want to put an end to farming, they should let us buy what we want from the store the way we do in single player. But thats never going to happen because they are bound and determined to milk every last red cent they can from this thing they can get away with. Its ALWAYS about profit, always has been and always will be, they just found a better way to exploit gamers is all.

Mark my words, Dead Space 3 is going to be EXACTLY the same as this, random packs you buy for armor, weapons, and consumables to use in multiplayer, with the ever 'innocent' option to buy more with micro transactions. Welcome to the new standard for online multiplayer people.

No offense, but I hope you are dead wrong about Dead Space 3. I happen to love Dead Space. And I would rather not see it become another Mass Effect 3.

But yes, I wouldn't mind seeing Collector's as an enemy faction.

But an entirely new faction isn't going to change how things are now.

I'm gonna site Gears of War 3 because these games have similar builds in a number of ways and mention the horde mode which is really good. They have a wide range of units from the game all with different abilities, and yes, even mix enemy factions together like ME3's new Platinum. But they work well together. When a Grinder is bearing down on you with a Boomer, and a Kantus is nearby, you have a big problem on your hands. Because one can keep you down, the other can blow you to bits, and the other can smoke you out, shoot you up, AND heal/ressurect anything you kill.

That alone from those three units can keep you down, falling back, and fighting like mad.

And it's touche's like that, that if applied here to Mass Effect that would change everything. And make the game more challenging for people.

I mean sure, farming won't go away, but it probably won't be the problem that everyone percieves it as.

Though I do agree with you about the store. I JUST unlocked my Male Quarian Infiltrator today, after so long. Then I got ammo 4 out of a spectre pack.

No offense taken, believe me I'm praying this doesnt spread, but the unfortunate fact of the matter is that once a way to make money is found, everyone copies it. EA just happened to be the first in this case. If you dont believe me, next time you're out driving around tell me how many drive through restraunts you see that sell some form of a kids meal that comes with a toy. Its not just going to be Dead Space 3, its going to be every game they can get away with. I actually expect standard stores in single player to turn the same at some point, letting you use your online wallet to buy weapons and gear faster so you dont have to 'work' to get the money in game.

As for the store, six hundred and forty seven hours of dedicated farming, and STILL no freaking Javilin. I dont even like the gun in single player, but its the only thing I havent at least unlocked yet. I actually have a friend that still hasnt unlocked the Krogan Soldier yet at this point lol

Well, I dunno, with the backlash that has come about about because of ME3 and all the cool games I'm seeing coming. I'm kinda hoping that things won't be so stupid again.

But you do have a point about the kid's meals, but they were profitable. And unlike DLC and such, stay that way cause well. They're kid's toys. Kid's can be easy to please. I know I was as a boy.

But, like I said I dunno. Look at Diablo 3, they tried that garbage, and they are doing miserably. I keep getting reports back from people I know that the community is pretty much dead. And Blyzzarde turned the drops down to force people to buy from the store, and they had that in the patch notes no less.

And yeah, I've been playing this game and its MP since it came out. If you look at my manifest, the stuff I don't have is because of that stubborn store.

It's frustrating to have near a million creds and to not get even one character.

I hate to say this, I REALLY do, but its the way it looks like things might be going.

Three years ago, only a small number of games had DLC, now almost EVERY game that comes out has DLC. The next logial step up from DLC is being able to use real money to buy in game content on demand. Trust me, NOTHING good comes from change, and that goes double when it comes to profit being made

[Rebel_Raven]

DfS, You do realize that Slayer has 1 more method of damage than the shadow, right?

To balance it out the shadow's slash is  probably a bit stronger.

Stop omitting data, and variables please.

Modifié par Rebel_Raven, 12 août 2012 - 05:08 .

[darkblade]

So they are OP now?

Werent people totally speccing out of the ES/BS when the slayer and shadow came out?

People complain about the skill being annoying with the screen shake but to call it OP when multifrags exist is hilarious.

The powers have less DPS then the high end guns in the game, why freaking mess with them? add to that neither can lift enemies like shockwave or smash...

Modifié par darkblade, 12 août 2012 - 05:07 .

[RGZ Archer]

Bleachrude wrote...

Pick your poison though....

Either we have the micro transaction model OR you pay for the new maps and weapons in one purchase...

Personally, I prefer the former since you aren't going to get the fracturing of the community that the latter tends to have...

L4D2 is a great MP game, but finding people that say have the latest expansion and actually talking about what works and doesn't is very frustrating...

True, but there are ways around this.

Take for example Mortal Kombat 2011 and Ace Combat Assuilt Horozen. Both have had a number of DLC add-on material but at the same time they have 'compatability packs' that let people who havent bought the DLC to play with players who HAVE bought it, they just cant use the items/characters/weapons the people who bought the DLC can.

And to be honest, I prefer this method over the blasted micro transactions since buying DLC at least you get to actually USE the new content. A lot of people havent unlocked the new characters or weapons. So in this case, they have the micro transactions, but still DONT have the new content to play with, outside the mas anyways.

If you ask me, this method just isnt 'player friendly'

[IllusiveManJr]

Pyramids, pyramids everywhere.

[TheKillerAngel]

death_for_sale wrote...

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Admit it death, you enjoy abusing Electric Slash.

Welcome to fame, I was recording during that match.

I still managed to outscore your Shadow.

Will you upload the video?

[DungeonHoek]

I hate to say this, I REALLY do, but its the way it looks like things might be going.

Three years ago, only a small number of games had DLC, now almost EVERY game that comes out has DLC. The next logial step up from DLC is being able to use real money to buy in game content on demand. Trust me, NOTHING good comes from change, and that goes double when it comes to profit being made

True, but, like I said, look at Diablo 3. That game bombed horribly. And it's whole model was built around using real money to play the game.

And most "gold farming" games I have seen like Evony, Galaxies online. Sure, they rake in alot of money for awhile. But they never last more then a year or two at most, because they become dominated by the credit-card players. And the designers don't actually put any real work into anything other then bilking you for your money.

[Rebel_Raven]

death_for_sale wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

DfS, You do realize that Slayer has 1 more method of damage than the shadow, right?

To balance it out the shadow's slash is  probably a bit stronger.

Stop omitting data, and variables please.

Phase Disruptor, at least in my experience is not that good. It is definitely not in the same league as SS. Realistically, the closest thing to SS that the Slayer has is BC. It also is not nearly the damage skill that SS is. The Shadow's Slash is stronger due to the small dot effect and the damage boost from TC, not from any class comparative skills.

That doesn't matter. PD is still direct attack ability where Shadow gets tactical cloak in it's place. Yes, it has utility, but TC is still not a direct attack.

Biotic charge gets barriers refilled regardless of targets, and more with the right evos where as shadow's evo only works if te target has shields, or barriers at the time of the attack, and only transfers shields.

Biotic charge can affect multiple people. Shadow Strike cannot.

Biotic Charge is also leagues safer, glitch aside. I don't see many vanguards dead by the time they appear at the target, get meleed before the charge strikes preventing them from contacting.

Over all, both classes balance out.

Honestly, you cannot balance powers the way you do guns. They're integral to a class, and it's balance with others.

Modifié par Rebel_Raven, 12 août 2012 - 05:27 .

[Lokanaiya]

These numbers leave out one important detail: The animation for Slash is very long for squishy characters whose main method of survival is flipping around and not being there when enemies are shooting at you.

[Rebel_Raven]

Lokanaiya wrote...

These numbers leave out one important detail: The animation for Slash is very long for squishy characters whose main method of survival is flipping around and not being there when enemies are shooting at you.

The problem is, DfS doesn't care. He's seen how lethal spamming can be to the spammer, but he still omits it.

Modifié par Rebel_Raven, 12 août 2012 - 05:33 .

[Cyonan]

Lokanaiya wrote...

These numbers leave out one important detail: The animation for Slash is very long for squishy characters whose main method of survival is flipping around and not being there when enemies are shooting at you.

It's left out quite a bit more than just that.

Looking at just theorycrafted numbers is a very flawed way of doing things.

Once the videos are up I'll see if they show anything new(provided they're using non farm setups).

[Rebel_Raven]

Cyonan wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

These numbers leave out one important detail: The animation for Slash is very long for squishy characters whose main method of survival is flipping around and not being there when enemies are shooting at you.

It's left out quite a bit more than just that.

Looking at just theorycrafted numbers is a very flawed way of doing things.

Once the videos are up I'll see if they show anything new(provided they're using non farm setups).

I'm gunna get real here. The fact this nerf attempt even exists, and is still persisting reflects poorly on "balance all things" and I can't see'em as credible anymore. I can't respect haphazard "tests" made by biased people who'll skew data, ignore relevant data, and worse just to hurt a class simply because they're potent in the most ideal of circumstances, and sometimes not even then.

[RGZ Archer]

DungeonHoek wrote...

I hate to say this, I REALLY do, but its the way it looks like things might be going.

Three years ago, only a small number of games had DLC, now almost EVERY game that comes out has DLC. The next logial step up from DLC is being able to use real money to buy in game content on demand. Trust me, NOTHING good comes from change, and that goes double when it comes to profit being made

True, but, like I said, look at Diablo 3. That game bombed horribly. And it's whole model was built around using real money to play the game.

And most "gold farming" games I have seen like Evony, Galaxies online. Sure, they rake in alot of money for awhile. But they never last more then a year or two at most, because they become dominated by the credit-card players. And the designers don't actually put any real work into anything other then bilking you for your money.

True, but if the game designers cared about the players and not just ther profit, ME3 would have had a very different ending. Keep in mind, once a person buys a copy of a game, the company makes money, each time someone buys DLC or a micro transaction, they make more. The trick is them finding a balance between ME3 and Diablo 3, screw us enough to make money, but not enough that people wont play the game. They dont have to last long, just have to make money, which is the bottom line.

Besides, Diablo 3 had a LOT more wrong with it than JUST the money issue.

Everyone here thinks they know what nerfing is? They think they know what butthurt is? Diablo 3 was nailed with a 50% reduction in attack speed back a few months back. Think about that for a second, FIFTY PERCENT. Thats the very thing I fear will happen here at this rate with all the whiners and complaners.

Is it fair? No. Am I happy? Heck no! But I wish everyone would just leave the few things that are still OP alone for those of us that just want to have some fun with this dying beast of a game till Fall of Cybertron, Bordelands 2 and Assassins Creed 3 comes out (the final three nails in the coffen for this games online community).

[Fierydragon30]

It's odd how everyone can say "no,it's not overpowered,or it's balanced" with zero reason or any solution or even an argument/debate. I guess people are lazy or ignorant.

[Cyonan]

Rebel_Raven wrote...
I'm gunna get real here. The fact this nerf attempt even exists, and is still persisting reflects poorly on "balance all things" and I can't see'em as credible anymore. I can't respect haphazard "tests" made by biased people who'll skew data, ignore relevant data, and worse just to hurt a class simply because they're potent in the most ideal of circumstances, and sometimes not even then.

It's become less of a group that comes up with actual numbers for suggestions and more of a group just for doing the same discussions like this thread(as well as general discussions about balance changes), only without people telling you to stop posting because you said the word nerf. The group feels like it's dying from what its' original purpose was.

Though we did point out the flaw in the original math rather quickly. We just didn't do the recalculations or testing to see what the delay was on the cooldown for him, then he posted this thread anyway with the false numbers till I tested it.

[TheKillerAngel]

death_for_sale wrote...

I am uploading a 2 new videos. One of the other limitations of the program, besides horrendous in game lag, is that it doesn't like to record over 15 minutes in one sitting.

In this video I chose U/U/G, hilariously we ended up on FBWGG. This was a pug, and I almost want to say that it showcased more how crazy Destroyers are with Piranhas =P. I died a few times, mostly to lag, but a couple times I forgot we weren't in the typical camp spots and got flanked. That is totally on me.

In any case, I am beginning to think that ES is a bit more OP than BS. I don't know for sure, based on the sheer trouble I had keeping up with the Destroyer in kills I am almost rethinking my position. Either that or Destroyer and Piranha is still just overpowered.

Videos will be uploaded later and links will be in the OP.

That was a pretty atypical match, since it was originally a private lobby that got opened to the public. 

Anyway, my Destroyer was stacked with gear so he was fully capable of dishing out plenty of pain. I specifically optimized the Piranha for destroying armored targets (Choke+Shredder).

I was also dishing out lots of damage with my Harrier; should that be nerfed as well?

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 12 août 2012 - 05:53 .

[Rebel_Raven]

Cyonan wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...
I'm gunna get real here. The fact this nerf attempt even exists, and is still persisting reflects poorly on "balance all things" and I can't see'em as credible anymore. I can't respect haphazard "tests" made by biased people who'll skew data, ignore relevant data, and worse just to hurt a class simply because they're potent in the most ideal of circumstances, and sometimes not even then.

It's become less of a group that comes up with actual numbers for suggestions and more of a group just for doing the same discussions like this thread(as well as general discussions about balance changes), only without people telling you to stop posting because you said the word nerf. The group feels like it's dying from what its' original purpose was.

Though we did point out the flaw in the original math rather quickly. We just didn't do the recalculations or testing to see what the delay was on the cooldown for him, then he posted this thread anyway with the false numbers till I tested it.

Well, that's another hit to DfS's credibility, posting bad numbers despite the error being pointed out. He didn't double check then, and I'm amazed he double checked after posting this thread. Probably did only to try and bolster his nonexistant credibility.

I think the reason people don't tell balance All things to stop coz they said "nerf" is that they seem to keep to themselves unlike DfS.

From your description of the way things are now, it certainly does feel like it's dying, which is a shame. It'd be nice to have people championing the cause of buffs, and more people trying to ka-bosh this kangaroo court, and perversion of scientific theory of a thread.

Then again talking about nerfs all day long, and reading about people wanting them, and seeing people keep wanting them, despite calling it "balance" is demoralizing. Small wonder the group's degrading.

Most ideas of "balance" people come up with are spitting on us and telling us it's raining.

I had hoped I talked some sense into DfS, but apparently not since he's continuing his crusade to nerf, and still do nil to buff aside from a token attempt in renaming the thread, yet doing nothing to his original post, and still not changing the theme of his pursuits.

[DungeonHoek]

RGZ Archer wrote...

DungeonHoek wrote...

I hate to say this, I REALLY do, but its the way it looks like things might be going.

Three years ago, only a small number of games had DLC, now almost EVERY game that comes out has DLC. The next logial step up from DLC is being able to use real money to buy in game content on demand. Trust me, NOTHING good comes from change, and that goes double when it comes to profit being made

True, but, like I said, look at Diablo 3. That game bombed horribly. And it's whole model was built around using real money to play the game.

And most "gold farming" games I have seen like Evony, Galaxies online. Sure, they rake in alot of money for awhile. But they never last more then a year or two at most, because they become dominated by the credit-card players. And the designers don't actually put any real work into anything other then bilking you for your money.

True, but if the game designers cared about the players and not just ther profit, ME3 would have had a very different ending. Keep in mind, once a person buys a copy of a game, the company makes money, each time someone buys DLC or a micro transaction, they make more. The trick is them finding a balance between ME3 and Diablo 3, screw us enough to make money, but not enough that people wont play the game. They dont have to last long, just have to make money, which is the bottom line.

Besides, Diablo 3 had a LOT more wrong with it than JUST the money issue.

Everyone here thinks they know what nerfing is? They think they know what butthurt is? Diablo 3 was nailed with a 50% reduction in attack speed back a few months back. Think about that for a second, FIFTY PERCENT. Thats the very thing I fear will happen here at this rate with all the whiners and complaners.

Is it fair? No. Am I happy? Heck no! But I wish everyone would just leave the few things that are still OP alone for those of us that just want to have some fun with this dying beast of a game till Fall of Cybertron, Bordelands 2 and Assassins Creed 3 comes out (the final three nails in the coffen for this games online community).

Seriously?, 50% reduction in attack speed, BASIC attack speed?. What?, was it not fair to the AI that people could attack and kill something?.

I mean honestly, I don't see the point in nerfing or "balancing" for this game at all. We're not up against each other, we're up against AI's.

Nerf's have always been better suited for PVP stuff when something has actually been game breaking, most of the time I've read this stuff, it's always something dumb. I mean really, the Typoon was OP because of this, the Piranha was OP because of that. But now its "balanced" because of a slight reduction in damage which didn't change anything.

I read snobbish comments from elitist's who want people to stay in lower difficulties because ZOMG a weapon or power enabled them to get into a higher difficulty, yet those same dinks don't realise or don't want to that people often need a starting point to grow in skill. I certainly couldn't do Silver and Gold at first, and it took getting the right characters, the right build, and learning the right things to be able to play as I do.

Yet "crutch's" are made out to be a permenant and horrible thing, really, I believe this is a case of pure sickening elistism. And in the long run this is just trying to take away how people like to have fun.

But yeah, at the rate it's going I don't see this lasting very long especially with this happy community. I don't now how much I will be playing over the coming months. What with me getting Fall of Cybertron, Borderlands 2, Resident Evil 6, X-Com: Enemy Unknown, and Hitman Absolution, and then Dead Space 3 and Aliens Colonial Marines.

[Rebel_Raven]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

I am uploading a 2 new videos. One of the other limitations of the program, besides horrendous in game lag, is that it doesn't like to record over 15 minutes in one sitting.

In this video I chose U/U/G, hilariously we ended up on FBWGG. This was a pug, and I almost want to say that it showcased more how crazy Destroyers are with Piranhas =P. I died a few times, mostly to lag, but a couple times I forgot we weren't in the typical camp spots and got flanked. That is totally on me.

In any case, I am beginning to think that ES is a bit more OP than BS. I don't know for sure, based on the sheer trouble I had keeping up with the Destroyer in kills I am almost rethinking my position. Either that or Destroyer and Piranha is still just overpowered.

Videos will be uploaded later and links will be in the OP.

That was a pretty atypical match, since it was originally a private lobby that got opened to the public. 

Anyway, my Destroyer was stacked with gear so he was fully capable of dishing out plenty of pain. I specifically optimized the Piranha for destroying armored targets (Choke+Shredder).

I was also dishing out lots of damage with my Harrier; should that be nerfed as well?

I wouldn't be surprised if he did try to get it nerfed overlooking it's faults, like low ammo capacity, and weight.

[AresKeith]

just buff shockwave and re-buff smash and be done with it

[Sammorbai]

death_for_sale wrote...

I am asking for balance. If Smash was considered to be overpowered and Shockwave is allowed to exist in its current state, the Slash is in need of adjusting. If Slash is considered to be ok, then Smash and Shockwave will need to be buffed.

Or maybe all three are perfectly fine where they are now.  I agree that Shockwave is pretty bad.  But that's not inherently a bad thing: in games with multiple options to choose from, sub-par options serve several very valuable purposes in game design.

1) Options are not powerful in a vacuum, they are only powerful in comparison to other options.  Sure, the Slashes are pretty good, but if Bioware were to put out an ability that hits all enemies in a 3 by 50 meter strip ahead of you with no wind-up animation then the Slashes would no longer seem powerful because there's suddenly a better option.  Just like if you were to nerf the Slashes into oblivion Smash and maybe even Shockwave would suddenly become really good, because there's no longer a better option for comparison.

2) Different options have different functions and appeal to different players.  Some players might consider Shockwave the better ability because the Batarian Sentinel has it and the Batarian Sentinel has more shields and damage reduction than the Shadow/Slayer/PA/PV.  Also the Batarian Sentinel can falcon punch.  The problem is players tend to define “bad options” as options that they personally see no reason to play. But certain options aren’t meant for them in the first place.  Some abilities are made for fun casual players, some are for Platinum speed runners.  Some are for the tacticians, and some are for the "kick in the door" fighters.  Personally, I've always considered the Krysae to be a bad option compared to other sniper rifles because I value what little sniping ability I have and when I tried the Krysae that ability deteriorated.

3) Diversity of options is key to discovery.  As you grow as a player you get better at evaluating an option's potential.  You learn that options that seemed cool and powerful at first really aren't, and options you'd overlooked at first are actually really good.  You gain a greater understanding of the game and the options and, consequently, you become a better player, which is very satisfying.  But not everyone starts the game at the same level, so you need to have some really bad options in order for the newest, least experienced players to get that same sense of growth and discovery.

4) Power levels are relative.  Energy Drain is a really powerful ability if you're fighting against Geth, where everything on the battlefield can get hit hard by it and fully replenish your shields.  But against Reapers it's fairly bad since there are only 2 unit types in the entire faction that Energy Drain can be used against effectively.  Whether or not something is good or bad is, at least partially, dependent on the environment around it.

5) Diversity of power level rewards the more skilled player.  As much as we like to say this is a co-op game, the scoreboard guarantees that players will compete against each other.  It's a basic part of all life to care about your standing in relation to others, even if being the best has no practical rewards.  A lesser player is more likely to use a sub-optimal option, which increases the odds that the skilled players in the group will get to kill more stuff and get more of that "I'm a bad-ass" feeling.  Let's say that every option in the game was identical in power level and you have two players gearing up.  Player A has been playing since the game came out, and Player B has just picked up the game.  Player A doesn't have as much of an advantage because no matter what Player B chooses, Player B's choices are still going to be good.  Sure the synergies may be a little off, but that doesn't really matter because Player B will be using nothing but good options regardless.

6) People like finding "hidden gems."  One of the joys of a game with options is discovering options that everyone else has dismissed.  In order for people to do this, though, there have to be good options that are disguised as bad options.  And you can't make good options that seem bad without making bad options that actually are bad.  For example, I remember that when the N7 classes first came out the Paladin was considered the weakest of them.  It was so bad that people were getting kicked from lobbies just for using the Paladin.  And then someone took another look at it, built and played it differently, and revealed that it's actually quite good.


tl;dr: in games with lots of options, options that are obviously sub-par or just plain bad do a lot of things that are good for the game.

Modifié par Sammorbai, 12 août 2012 - 06:20 .

[RGZ Archer]

DungeonHoek wrote...

RGZ Archer wrote...

DungeonHoek wrote...

I hate to say this, I REALLY do, but its the way it looks like things might be going.

Three years ago, only a small number of games had DLC, now almost EVERY game that comes out has DLC. The next logial step up from DLC is being able to use real money to buy in game content on demand. Trust me, NOTHING good comes from change, and that goes double when it comes to profit being made

True, but, like I said, look at Diablo 3. That game bombed horribly. And it's whole model was built around using real money to play the game.

And most "gold farming" games I have seen like Evony, Galaxies online. Sure, they rake in alot of money for awhile. But they never last more then a year or two at most, because they become dominated by the credit-card players. And the designers don't actually put any real work into anything other then bilking you for your money.

True, but if the game designers cared about the players and not just ther profit, ME3 would have had a very different ending. Keep in mind, once a person buys a copy of a game, the company makes money, each time someone buys DLC or a micro transaction, they make more. The trick is them finding a balance between ME3 and Diablo 3, screw us enough to make money, but not enough that people wont play the game. They dont have to last long, just have to make money, which is the bottom line.

Besides, Diablo 3 had a LOT more wrong with it than JUST the money issue.

Everyone here thinks they know what nerfing is? They think they know what butthurt is? Diablo 3 was nailed with a 50% reduction in attack speed back a few months back. Think about that for a second, FIFTY PERCENT. Thats the very thing I fear will happen here at this rate with all the whiners and complaners.

Is it fair? No. Am I happy? Heck no! But I wish everyone would just leave the few things that are still OP alone for those of us that just want to have some fun with this dying beast of a game till Fall of Cybertron, Bordelands 2 and Assassins Creed 3 comes out (the final three nails in the coffen for this games online community).

Seriously?, 50% reduction in attack speed, BASIC attack speed?. What?, was it not fair to the AI that people could attack and kill something?.

I mean honestly, I don't see the point in nerfing or "balancing" for this game at all. We're not up against each other, we're up against AI's.

Nerf's have always been better suited for PVP stuff when something has actually been game breaking, most of the time I've read this stuff, it's always something dumb. I mean really, the Typoon was OP because of this, the Piranha was OP because of that. But now its "balanced" because of a slight reduction in damage which didn't change anything.

I read snobbish comments from elitist's who want people to stay in lower difficulties because ZOMG a weapon or power enabled them to get into a higher difficulty, yet those same dinks don't realise or don't want to that people often need a starting point to grow in skill. I certainly couldn't do Silver and Gold at first, and it took getting the right characters, the right build, and learning the right things to be able to play as I do.

Yet "crutch's" are made out to be a permenant and horrible thing, really, I believe this is a case of pure sickening elistism. And in the long run this is just trying to take away how people like to have fun.

But yeah, at the rate it's going I don't see this lasting very long especially with this happy community. I don't now how much I will be playing over the coming months. What with me getting Fall of Cybertron, Borderlands 2, Resident Evil 6, X-Com: Enemy Unknown, and Hitman Absolution, and then Dead Space 3 and Aliens Colonial Marines.

Attack speed is something you could upgrade and buff, the nerf however was...not well recieved to say the least.

To EVERYONE who wants to see just what complaining about something being OP in a game results in, look up Dablo 3 patch 1.0.3 THAT is the king of all nerfs. Also you can find an overview here:

http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20120620

Yeah, this games heading down the same path, FAST.