Modifié par Cyonan, 11 août 2012 - 12:39 .
Guest_death_for_sale_*
Rebel_Raven wrote...
death_for_sale wrote...
Rebel_Raven wrote...
*Sigh* Again, you only look at the small picture.
I'd try to debate with you, DfS, but I already know you don't care what anyone says, and are absolutely dead set in your plot.
How am I looking at the small picture? This is the next crutch class that people are falling back on to complete difficulties that they would not normally be capable of defeating. The board is lighting up with people complaining about the number of Shadows and Slayers popping up in matches and just using Slash.
You can literally download a macro program and go AFK on these classes for long periods of time, there is no skill involved.
Feel free to bring a debate, if you can dispute what are actual facts.
Oh god, where do I begin? Have you forgotten history?
It's obvious you focus on a slim sliver of the population that can actually manage that level of equipment, and even smaller sliver of the community that can do so consistently.
You're taking one ability from both classes, and not looking at the class as a whole. You deck them out in the most powerful gear you can to focus on that one power ignoring any variables, I.E. A shadow might wanna use shadow strike, and build for that.
Not everyone is going to hug a banshee, brute, atlas, or geth prime so they can use their windup to deal extra damage, nor are they going to hug enemies to use the wind up in general as they're pretty squishy as a class, and will get shot to death using those powers carelessly.
You factor out the forced mobility with each and every use, and the vulnerability in the wind up. You pretty much ignore anything that could possibly go wrong in using the power, and every down side in it.
You want facts?
Fact: Not everyone has structural ergonomics IV, or power eff IV.
Fact: Not everyone has the consumeable versions to burn in every match.
Fact: the powers have to be aimed, and directed. You can't macro them to do anything more than fire in one direction repeatedly. Even in a farming situation in FBW/G/G it's a bad idea as people will not watch your back. Further you've no cover using these abilities. Spammed against a counter will get you shot, and killed quickly.
Against a wall you'll have frontal cover, but, again, you're going to get flanked, and shot to death in a hurry.
Believe me, I've done FBW/G/G with a shadow. It's no picnic, even with the slashes.
Of course you'll dismiss those coz obviously. Just mere excuses, and anyone that disagrees with you, you've pretty much labled a troll in the past.
I want to see you actually test your build, and be successful with it.
All this is a post with the same cold, careless stabs at something you obviosuly don't like.
I gotta ask, why do you care?
If you don't like an ability, and you don't use it, how can you possibly expect to balance it without bias? Odds are high you have no experience with the ability, or else you'd never suggest something as ludicrous as using a macro and going afk.
At least protoman claimed to care about what he wasa trying to get nerfed.
Also your information is incomplete. You neglect to mention the shadow's ES can topple human sized enemies. Frankly, it's probably necessary due to the shadow's lack of outright offensive powers, and aside from ES, no crowd control.
AresKeith wrote...
do you even use them DFS?
lazuli wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
lazuli wrote...
svocke2 wrote...
dude dont even try to count this thread as a discussion. NOBODY has agreed with you on this thread. Discussion implies various people with differing opinions. The only differing opinion is yours
At the risk of incurring a "whoru," I think the Slashes are out of line with existing powers. They seem to be a pretty solid example of power creep at work.
Look at the entire class, not one power.
Fair enough. Charge and Shadow Strike are both powerful, certainly. But they place the player in danger if used carelessly. The slashes have a long windup animation that leaves the player exposed, but this isn't really a problem when used to shoot through walls.
The wall penetration is what rankles me about the powers.
Guest_death_for_sale_*
Cyonan wrote...
I might as well throw this out there:
All those numbers are wrong.
Every single one of those abilities has a delay before the cooldown starts. The values aren't in the Coalesced file, but Fraps shows it's ~1.5 seconds for the Slashes, and ~0.75 seconds for Smash.
You also need to remember for Electric Slash's Cloaked DPS, that every second Electric Slash is going to receive the 3.08 cooldown of Tactical Cloak, not the 1.37 of Electric Smash.
Guest_death_for_sale_*
Rebel_Raven wrote...
AresKeith wrote...
do you even use them DFS?
Considering he suggested one make a macro to just fire these off against a wall, I'd say no.
You'd be lucky to get away with that on bronze without being carried with such a tactic.
Modifié par death_for_sale, 11 août 2012 - 12:40 .
lazuli wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
lazuli wrote...
svocke2 wrote...
dude dont even try to count this thread as a discussion. NOBODY has agreed with you on this thread. Discussion implies various people with differing opinions. The only differing opinion is yours
At the risk of incurring a "whoru," I think the Slashes are out of line with existing powers. They seem to be a pretty solid example of power creep at work.
Look at the entire class, not one power.
Fair enough. Charge and Shadow Strike are both powerful, certainly. But they place the player in danger if used carelessly. The slashes have a long windup animation that leaves the player exposed, but this isn't really a problem when used to shoot through walls.
The wall penetration is what rankles me about the powers.
death_for_sale wrote...
Bold response #1: The only character that requires consumables to do the numbers listed is the PA/PV with Smash. The Slash numbers are without ANY CONSUMABLES.
Bold #2: If you know where the spawns are coming from, ie 99% of the time in a camp situation, you can angle and forget about it.
Bold #3: Not my video, but from a similar thread complaining about Slash. youtu.be/iGktId9bpy4
Bold #4: Use it all the time, just like I use the Piranha all the time. I am not calling for balance because I don't like the power, I am calling for balance because it is overpowered. No macro though, that would be cheating.
Bold #5: I did say it toppled enemies, read all of my post.
Modifié par Rebel_Raven, 11 août 2012 - 12:45 .
Have you played Slayer at all? As has been explained by others, you are dead if you try to BS without being in cover, even on Silver. On Gold you can only do BS from behind walls or you're dead. And on Gold IIRC it takes around three BS to kill a Trooper. Also, I may have specced completely stupid, but my fully evolved Charge does NOT one-shot-kill a Trooper on Silver. I suppose there are great Slayer players out there who play Gold and Platinum, to me he's one of the harder classes to drag through Silver, since everything but BS is lag dependant.lazuli wrote...
The wall penetration is what rankles me about the powers.
Guest_death_for_sale_*
svocke2 wrote...
lazuli wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
lazuli wrote...
svocke2 wrote...
dude dont even try to count this thread as a discussion. NOBODY has agreed with you on this thread. Discussion implies various people with differing opinions. The only differing opinion is yours
At the risk of incurring a "whoru," I think the Slashes are out of line with existing powers. They seem to be a pretty solid example of power creep at work.
Look at the entire class, not one power.
Fair enough. Charge and Shadow Strike are both powerful, certainly. But they place the player in danger if used carelessly. The slashes have a long windup animation that leaves the player exposed, but this isn't really a problem when used to shoot through walls.
The wall penetration is what rankles me about the powers.
If you remove the wall penetration, then they will need a new and far quicker wind-up animation to make these powers even remotely useful on Gold/Plat. You can't just peek out and launch it around a corner like Ballistic Blades and retreat.
death_for_sale wrote...
I will update them as soon as I can. As far as the TC DPS of ES, if you take evo 6 you can use 2 Slashes before getting the CD. I did factor that in.
death_for_sale wrote...
Rebel_Raven wrote...
AresKeith wrote...
do you even use them DFS?
Considering he suggested one make a macro to just fire these off against a wall, I'd say no.
You'd be lucky to get away with that on bronze without being carried with such a tactic.
Yes, I do use them all the time.
No macro, since that would be cheating, but I addressed your comments on this earlier.
AresKeith wrote...
death_for_sale wrote...
Rebel_Raven wrote...
AresKeith wrote...
do you even use them DFS?
Considering he suggested one make a macro to just fire these off against a wall, I'd say no.
You'd be lucky to get away with that on bronze without being carried with such a tactic.
Yes, I do use them all the time.
No macro, since that would be cheating, but I addressed your comments on this earlier.
well if you don't like the slashes then play a different game, if no, then enjoy the MP for what it is, a CO-OP game
Guest_death_for_sale_*
Rebel_Raven wrote...
death_for_sale wrote...
Bold response #1: The only character that requires consumables to do the numbers listed is the PA/PV with Smash. The Slash numbers are without ANY CONSUMABLES.
Bold #2: If you know where the spawns are coming from, ie 99% of the time in a camp situation, you can angle and forget about it.
Bold #3: Not my video, but from a similar thread complaining about Slash. youtu.be/iGktId9bpy4
Bold #4: Use it all the time, just like I use the Piranha all the time. I am not calling for balance because I don't like the power, I am calling for balance because it is overpowered. No macro though, that would be cheating.
Bold #5: I did say it toppled enemies, read all of my post.
Right, make your own video. No consumeables, no gear. Go solo platinum, or even gold on, oh, firebase Rio, or Birebase Goddess with both classes using those powers, spammed against a wall liek you advocate. Make a macro, and leave the keyboard. Prove it's as easy as you let on.
You may get off kills, but you'll be punsihed to no end in the effort by being flanked, being out of cover, and so on.
Even when you -can- camp, you'll prolly not survive very long.
It's a long long effort to whittle down a boss with these abilities, believe it or not.
And I am doubting you seriously when you let on that you remotely care about these powers, the classes, or even the game.
Guest_death_for_sale_*
Cyonan wrote...
death_for_sale wrote...
I will update them as soon as I can. As far as the TC DPS of ES, if you take evo 6 you can use 2 Slashes before getting the CD. I did factor that in.
It's still not entirely correct.
Given a 2.82 second CD with full recharge speed upgrades, you still have to wait one ES cooldown of 1.37(plus delay) on the first ES, and then another cooldown of 2.82(Plus another delay) on the second one.
Rebel_Raven wrote...
death_for_sale wrote...
Bold response #1: The only character that requires consumables to do the numbers listed is the PA/PV with Smash. The Slash numbers are without ANY CONSUMABLES.
Bold #2: If you know where the spawns are coming from, ie 99% of the time in a camp situation, you can angle and forget about it.
Bold #3: Not my video, but from a similar thread complaining about Slash. youtu.be/iGktId9bpy4
Bold #4: Use it all the time, just like I use the Piranha all the time. I am not calling for balance because I don't like the power, I am calling for balance because it is overpowered. No macro though, that would be cheating.
Bold #5: I did say it toppled enemies, read all of my post.
Right, make your own video. No consumeables, no gear. Go solo platinum, or even gold on, oh, firebase Rio, or Birebase Goddess with both classes using those powers, spammed against a wall liek you advocate. Make a macro, and leave the keyboard. Prove it's as easy as you let on.
You may get off kills, but you'll be punsihed to no end in the effort by being flanked, being out of cover, and so on.
Even when you -can- camp, you'll prolly not survive very long.
It's a long long effort to whittle down a boss with these abilities, believe it or not.
And I am doubting you seriously when you let on that you remotely care about these powers, the classes, or even the game.
DAO MAdhatter wrote...
I just think that the slashes need to have they're reach shortened. When these abilites can out reach smash & flamer by a country mile than something is wrong. Shorten them down to 5 or 10 meatures than drop they're evo to 5 meatures & everything wil be cherry.
Guest_death_for_sale_*
AresKeith wrote...
death_for_sale wrote...
Rebel_Raven wrote...
AresKeith wrote...
do you even use them DFS?
Considering he suggested one make a macro to just fire these off against a wall, I'd say no.
You'd be lucky to get away with that on bronze without being carried with such a tactic.
Yes, I do use them all the time.
No macro, since that would be cheating, but I addressed your comments on this earlier.
well if you don't like the slashes then play a different game, if no, then enjoy the MP for what it is, a CO-OP game
CmnDwnWrkn wrote...
I'm not sure people even realize that the Slashes are nothing more than a repackaged Shockwave...a repackaged Shockwave that goes twice as far and does about 5x more damage. Seriously - look at the power evolution of Shockwave and compare it to Biotic Slash - it's virtually identical. Then compare the power and range of the two.
There's no question there's a balance issue here. I'm not suggesting a solution, b/c I don't know what would be best at this point, but how can one justify a power like this when certain characters are stuck with the far-inferior Shockwave?
Modifié par svocke2, 11 août 2012 - 12:54 .
AresKeith wrote...
Rebel_Raven wrote...
death_for_sale wrote...
Bold response #1: The only character that requires consumables to do the numbers listed is the PA/PV with Smash. The Slash numbers are without ANY CONSUMABLES.
Bold #2: If you know where the spawns are coming from, ie 99% of the time in a camp situation, you can angle and forget about it.
Bold #3: Not my video, but from a similar thread complaining about Slash. youtu.be/iGktId9bpy4
Bold #4: Use it all the time, just like I use the Piranha all the time. I am not calling for balance because I don't like the power, I am calling for balance because it is overpowered. No macro though, that would be cheating.
Bold #5: I did say it toppled enemies, read all of my post.
Right, make your own video. No consumeables, no gear. Go solo platinum, or even gold on, oh, firebase Rio, or Birebase Goddess with both classes using those powers, spammed against a wall liek you advocate. Make a macro, and leave the keyboard. Prove it's as easy as you let on.
You may get off kills, but you'll be punsihed to no end in the effort by being flanked, being out of cover, and so on.
Even when you -can- camp, you'll prolly not survive very long.
It's a long long effort to whittle down a boss with these abilities, believe it or not.
And I am doubting you seriously when you let on that you remotely care about these powers, the classes, or even the game.
you know he's not, all nerfers post vids of them using every bonuses in the game just to call something OP
Modifié par Kyerea, 11 août 2012 - 12:55 .
Retour en haut