614 réponses à ce sujet

[cgj]

i've read some peple say it's high risk, high reward, because the animation is long and the character is squishy
but i don't see the risk at all when you inflict over 1200 damage to an enemy that's 20meters away while hidden behind a wall where the enemy cannot even see you,
it's not like you take the risk to even have your shield scratched,
and it also detonate BE and TB
it really needs to have its range shortened

[DVS27t]

This is why people hate the ****ing nerf idiots. Last week it was the piranha, before the typhoon, etc.

I bet you troll ****s don't even play the game.

[silencekills]

 I like how this makes sense and is worthy of discussion, but everyone immediately goes "NO NERFS STFU SCRUB!".

[cgj]

silencekills wrote...

 I like how this makes sense and is worthy of discussion, but everyone immediately goes "NO NERFS STFU SCRUB!".

sad times indeed

[jd641]

I think I'm getting cancer from these forums.

[svocke2]

cgj wrote...

i've read some peple say it's high risk, high reward, because the animation is long and the character is squishy
but i don't see the risk at all when you inflict over 1200 damage to an enemy that's 20meters away while hidden behind a wall where the enemy cannot even see you,
it's not like you take the risk to even have your shield scratched,
and it also detonate BE and TB
it really needs to have its range shortened

show me these hidden away safe zones on Gold hydra, condor, or london. Oh thats right, people tend to apply everything to farm spots.

[xtorma]

its THAT guy wrote...

svocke2 wrote...

its THAT guy wrote...

I whole heartedly agree with the OP. Using such highly damaging powers through walls is Overpowered as hell and is simply a crutch used by terribad players to get into higher difficulties. Sure, I don't have any actual factual data to back it up, nor much real in-game experience with said powers, but the OP does, and that's good enough for me. All the rest of you care-bears and whiners in this thread need to get off your high horses and realize that this guy is showing a valid point with real, statistical evidence to back up his claims. I have yet to see anyone be able to disprove OP's point with factual evidence, so all of ya'll can STFU.

its a trick, don't fall for it.

Not a trick. It's a fact. Fact. FACTTTTT. F.A.C.T.

Got it? The OP is right, all you care-bears are wrong and can't stand it so you troll his thread with constant whining and ****ing. Jesus.

Just agree with him and move on. Lets get this over with. I am sure you checked his numbers and they are all correct. No need for name calling, just politely agree, endorse all his numbers,  and call for the nerf.

[cgj]

svocke2 wrote...

cgj wrote...

i've read some peple say it's high risk, high reward, because the animation is long and the character is squishy
but i don't see the risk at all when you inflict over 1200 damage to an enemy that's 20meters away while hidden behind a wall where the enemy cannot even see you,
it's not like you take the risk to even have your shield scratched,
and it also detonate BE and TB
it really needs to have its range shortened

show me these hidden away safe zones on Gold hydra, condor, or london. Oh thats right, people tend to apply everything to farm spots.

knew that was coming

London is full of those
condor too

just check out those yourself

and there are some on hydra too, but  much less than other maps i agree

and before you say anything else, spamming it through walls doesn't means being stationary at all times, because of course it wouldn't work on hydra, but if you go from spot to spot, then yes even hydra is quite safe for it

[Zero 2362]

its THAT guy wrote...

I whole heartedly agree with the OP. Using such highly damaging powers through walls is Overpowered as hell and is simply a crutch used by terribad players to get into higher difficulties. Sure, I don't have any actual factual data to back it up, nor much real in-game experience with said powers, but the OP does, and that's good enough for me. All the rest of you care-bears and whiners in this thread need to get off your high horses and realize that this guy is showing a valid point with real, statistical evidence to back up his claims. I have yet to see anyone be able to disprove OP's point with factual evidence, so all of ya'll can STFU.

A few pages back someone pointed out his maths were way off the mark and were based on the DPS of characters that are a lot more durable

[DarthVarner]

There's really no news here. These powers have incredibly long windups with no DR during the windup. They're also objectively BAD against bosses, particularly bosses that close quickly. The Slayer can't self-biotic detonate, which completely excuses a bit of extra damage on an ability like this, and if you run an ES build on the Shadow you can't self-tech detonate either.

The OP conveniently decided not to include said windup in his calculations at all. The windup is about 1.5 seconds. So pretty much every number in the initial post needs to be cut more than in half.  Thus, the entire thread is completely wrong and intentionally misleading.

Death for sale - Learn to do math. Then learn to apply math correctly. Then come back and maybe contribute something useful. This thread isn't worth the electrons it took to convey it to your screen, much less the effort I took to destroy your entire case.

Get off these forums.

Modifié par DarthVarner, 11 août 2012 - 01:59 .

[rmccowen]

DVS27t wrote...

This is why people hate the ****ing nerf idiots. Last week it was the piranha, before the typhoon, etc.

I bet you troll ****s don't even play the game.

Who was asking for a Typhoon nerf?

[Korisselys1]

get a life plz

[Zero 2362]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Zero 2362 wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

SgtAmazing wrote...

No one I have ever seen who posts these threads ever seems to think about why the abilities may be "over powered." The Slayer and Shadow have horrible shields and armor and cannot take very many hits. Both are best carrying minimal fire power (pistol and / or SMG,) and have close range abilities that can get them killed instantly. Maybe the damage is to compensate for being very weak. These characters do not operate very well with anything other than pistols or SMGs because of the recharge speed of their powers, so you end up sacrificing firepower for tech and biotics. You shouldnt be thinking about balancing them with other characters, but balancing them with themselves. The slayer is fast, can teleport through walls, use biotic slash, sacrifices shields for phase disruptor, biotic jumps into enemy while having horrible shields / health. Maybe biotic slash is the way it is because of all the negatives.  Shadow can be spotted and hit prior to getting her shadow strike off getting her killed fairly quickley. 

Both classes operates perfectly well with Piranah equipped.

Everything operates perfectly well with piranha equipped. Your point is moot

The glass cannon AA with zero points in fitness would probably benefit more from a ranged weapon than the Piranha which is only useful at point blank range unless you're a GI/GE/Tsol/Destroyer

Never said they operate at there best. just well as piranha barly costs you any cooldown on any class

[xtorma]

silencekills wrote...

 I like how this makes sense and is worthy of discussion, but everyone immediately goes "NO NERFS STFU SCRUB!".

The numbers are off. I am sure the discussion will settle into a productive one as soon as the math is correct.

[svocke2]

cgj wrote...

svocke2 wrote...

cgj wrote...

i've read some peple say it's high risk, high reward, because the animation is long and the character is squishy
but i don't see the risk at all when you inflict over 1200 damage to an enemy that's 20meters away while hidden behind a wall where the enemy cannot even see you,
it's not like you take the risk to even have your shield scratched,
and it also detonate BE and TB
it really needs to have its range shortened

show me these hidden away safe zones on Gold hydra, condor, or london. Oh thats right, people tend to apply everything to farm spots.

knew that was coming

London is full of those
condor too

just check out those yourself

and there are some on hydra too, but  much less than other maps i agree

and before you say anything else, spamming it through walls doesn't means being stationary at all times, because of course it wouldn't work on hydra, but if you go from spot to spot, then yes even hydra is quite safe for it

 
i dont see how you can spam these powers on condor. The powers don't adjust vertically, and there are no real safe zones there except against geth.

[Zero 2362]

xtorma wrote...

silencekills wrote...

 I like how this makes sense and is worthy of discussion, but everyone immediately goes "NO NERFS STFU SCRUB!".

The numbers are off. I am sure the discussion will settle into a productive one as soon as the math is correct.

Considering how long ago it was pointed out and the fact it hasnt been corrected leads me to believe that it will not be corrected. Shame because I would like to discuss this properly myself but untill we get accurate numbers that is rather hard to do

[cgj]

svocke2 wrote...

 
i dont see how you can spam these powers on condor. The powers don't adjust vertically, and there are no real safe zones there except against geth.

that's what i tried to say, every maps, even hydra and condor, has spots where you can exploit the wall hacking
but that doesn't make these spots GOOD camping spots you can spam from indefinitely like the farming spot on maps like FBW and Glacier

which basically mean, that you can use you power 3 or 4 times hidden behind the wall, before the enemies start closing in and you have to move to another spot where you can repeat this

[Mr. Heavy]

Why is the nerf standard for everything what scores highest in farming games?

[cgj]

Mr. Heavy wrote...

Why is the nerf standard for everything what scores highest in farming games?

hahahaha, it isn't, the demolisher is a beast for farming games, and there hasn't been any nerf calls for him yet surprisingly
and in farming games, anything can score high, especially playing pugs
if that was the standard, then good players in pugs would get everything nerfed

Modifié par cgj, 11 août 2012 - 02:18 .

[Gamemako]

This thread is premature. The numbers are wrong and the comparison is grossly lacking as it considers only two classes against one another instead of against the competition at large. I will not contribute here, instead opting to discuss it in the balance group.

[Ashen One]

Zero 2362 wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

Kyerea wrote...

KalilKareem wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

Spamming it will get you killed in -all- maps, unless someone knows something I don't about an ideal camping spot. It's certainly not the tiny room in FBW.

Glacier is the new fbw simply because of slashes plus demolishers.

Which clearly the vast majority of players commit themselves to on a daily basis.

Well. Yes? Go look for a random game on platinum. Chances are you will get glaciers because that is what ppl play.

So because it has practical application on one map and one map only it should be nerfed. Hey everyone lets all nerf Infiltrators because they have an advantage in big open maps

Infiltrators have an advantage on all maps, and against all enemies.

That's why you typically see lobbies full of Infiltrators on the higher difficulties.

[Zero 2362]

Mr. Heavy wrote...

Why is the nerf standard for everything what scores highest in farming games?

Hate to say it but it would appear that the loudest balance supporters are most concerned with people can outscore them or not. One of them actually came straight out and admitted that he couldnt stand being outscored a couple of days ago. Its a shame because I myself see the need for balance in the game (though I dont think any changes  are needed here. You nerf the slashes you would have to buff the shields to compensate. I actually wouldnt mind that but it wouldnt be fair)

[Dream-Maker]

silencekills wrote...

 I like how this makes sense and is worthy of discussion, but everyone immediately goes "NO NERFS STFU SCRUB!".

I actually tried to post a rational refutation of the OP a few pages ago (as I disagree with him at least for the most part) but my post has been drowned in the torrent of usual whining against the evil "nerfers".

Sad indeed and proves again that simple balance discussion can hardly happen in this forum. No wonder why contradictory arguments against nerfs are almost never taken seriously.

Modifié par Dream-Maker, 11 août 2012 - 02:30 .

[Cyonan]

So if you redo the numbers, you get:

Electric Slash
Non Cloaked - 450.35 DPS(675.52 vs Shields/Barriers) at 20 meters
Cloaked - 647.15 DPS(970.72 vs Shields/Barriers) at 20 meters

Biotic Slash
527 DPS(790.5 vs Barriers/Armour) at 20 meters

Smash
Electric Evo - 351.25 DPS(614.68 vs Barriers/Armour with Evo 6 upgrade) + DoT at 8 meters
Biotic Evo - 433.49 DPS(758.61 vs Barriers/Armour with Evo 6 upgrade) at 8 meters

[Zero 2362]

Dream-Maker wrote...

silencekills wrote...

 I like how this makes sense and is worthy of discussion, but everyone immediately goes "NO NERFS STFU SCRUB!".

I actually tried to post a rational refutation of the OP a few pages ago (as I disagree with him at least for the most part) but my post has been drowned in the torrent of usual whining against the evil "nerfers".

Sad indeed and proves again that simple balance discussion can hardly happen in this forum. No wonder why contradictory arguments against nerfs are almost never taken seriously.

I actually managed to make a few legitimate arguments earlier but the ones they couldnt refute were ignored