614 réponses à ce sujet

[Rebel_Raven]

Don't fool yourself. Look at the pirahna thread he made to see how he "debates." Largely he doesn't.

I'm not surprised his math was off. he sounded way too eager in the balance announcements thread. He'll shove a square peg into a round hole if it'll suit his case.

[Ashen One]

Zero 2362 wrote...

Dream-Maker wrote...

silencekills wrote...

 I like how this makes sense and is worthy of discussion, but everyone immediately goes "NO NERFS STFU SCRUB!".

I actually tried to post a rational refutation of the OP a few pages ago (as I disagree with him at least for the most part) but my post has been drowned in the torrent of usual whining against the evil "nerfers".

Sad indeed and proves again that simple balance discussion can hardly happen in this forum. No wonder why contradictory arguments against nerfs are almost never taken seriously.

I actually managed to make a few legitimate arguments earlier but the ones they couldnt refute were ignored

That's not quite as bad as being called a "troll" for making an argument that couldn't be reasonably refuted.

But such is the way of BSN.

[xZBx]

LegacyOfTheAsh wrote...

Be quiet please.

This a thousand times.

[AresKeith]

Rebel_Raven wrote...

Don't fool yourself. Look at the pirahna thread he made to see how he "debates." Largely he doesn't.

I'm not surprised his math was off. he sounded way too eager in the balance announcements thread. He'll shove a square peg into a round hole if it'll suit his case.

soon he'll go to grenades lol

[Zero 2362]

AresKeith wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

Don't fool yourself. Look at the pirahna thread he made to see how he "debates." Largely he doesn't.

I'm not surprised his math was off. he sounded way too eager in the balance announcements thread. He'll shove a square peg into a round hole if it'll suit his case.

soon he'll go to grenades lol

Diddnt they already get hit this week?

[BoomDynamite]

Can you compare them to Shockwave too? I think it's more similar to the Slash's than Smash.

[Major Durza]

I don't see the problem, really. I do not see slashspammers or smashspammers in lobbies. As a matter of fact, I have not seen one person who did this exclusively. We PC players like our guns, and the only ones that are being spammed are the Piranha, Harrier, Mattock, PPR

Thats the point of balance, right? Variety in game? Right now, I do not see the variety being threatened by farmers, particularly the button-mashers. I see plenty of class variety at the moment, because something is powerful as hell does not mean it is being spammed beyond tolerance. How often do you people see Vorcha with Reegars in a PUG? I haven't since two week afer rebellion was released.
I rarely see shadows, even more rarely see Slayers, and have never come across someone who spams these powers endlessly. Personally, I did not put a single point in either of them. The idea of such a move was very poorly thought out, imo.

Oh and the thread with the Piranha, I was a troll because the tests were lopsided. I lost track of that thread; I ran out of ****s to give.

Debating with this guy is like debating a militant atheist or diehard evangelical, it is never going anywhere because he is dead set on putting out his word.

Either way, I will not beat my head against the wall with this thread. If Bioware takes this guy seriously, more reason to spec completely out of these powers.

In the meantime, lets rebuff tac-cloak, buff the hell out of Phase Disruptor, and buff the Slayer's melee a bit.

[Huma1978]

Zero 2362 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

Don't fool yourself. Look at the pirahna thread he made to see how he "debates." Largely he doesn't.

I'm not surprised his math was off. he sounded way too eager in the balance announcements thread. He'll shove a square peg into a round hole if it'll suit his case.

soon he'll go to grenades lol

Diddnt they already get hit this week?

Yeah... the Arc Grenades for Quarian Males were reduced from 450 to 400, to match the N7 Demolisher's Arc Grenades.

[Major Durza]

On a side note, death, it looks like your thread is getting your usual support...

[Major Durza]

Huma1978 wrote...

Zero 2362 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

Don't fool yourself. Look at the pirahna thread he made to see how he "debates." Largely he doesn't.

I'm not surprised his math was off. he sounded way too eager in the balance announcements thread. He'll shove a square peg into a round hole if it'll suit his case.

soon he'll go to grenades lol

Diddnt they already get hit this week?

Yeah... the Arc Grenades for Quarian Males were reduced from 450 to 400, to match the N7 Demolisher's Arc Grenades.

Yea, for some reason they did not like the idea of Quarians having better tech than humanity.

[ThusSpokeZarathustra]

The OP must be silenced. 

[ME3 Fury]

There's no argument at all. Comparing a single ability (specced or not specced, the ability is still available), to another is just ridiculous. Compare the classes. For example, the damage lash does over time or the ability of both cerbs having a couple of ways of priming and detonating BE's and what that damage does.

This dude just upset his toon doesn't have an ability that goes through walls and having his potential kills jacked.

[Major Durza]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Zero 2362 wrote...

Dream-Maker wrote...

silencekills wrote...

 I like how this makes sense and is worthy of discussion, but everyone immediately goes "NO NERFS STFU SCRUB!".

I actually tried to post a rational refutation of the OP a few pages ago (as I disagree with him at least for the most part) but my post has been drowned in the torrent of usual whining against the evil "nerfers".

Sad indeed and proves again that simple balance discussion can hardly happen in this forum. No wonder why contradictory arguments against nerfs are almost never taken seriously.

I actually managed to make a few legitimate arguments earlier but the ones they couldnt refute were ignored

That's not quite as bad as being called a "troll" for making an argument that couldn't be reasonably refuted.

But such is the way of BSN.

Oh yes, the thread of with the Piranha.  I stopped debating with him about it, he gets offended and calls people trolls when they present legitimate arguments to him.  I debate the topic with Gamemako instead, he makes quite a bit more sense and doesn't make these lopsided "tests" that DFS does.  I am still constructing a response to him, as a matter of fact.  An argument that takes a bit of forethought is a rare thing here, and such a phenomenon is not going to happen with DFS.

[Zero 2362]

BoomDynamite wrote...

Can you compare them to Shockwave too? I think it's more similar to the Slash's than Smash.

Shockwave has less range and power

Double win slash

Shockwave can be fired in any direction. Slash cant be fired up or down

Win shockwave

Slash has a very long wind up that can allow the anemy to move out of range, kill you or be killed by a team mate wasting your power. Not to mention you are very vulnerable if you try this from low cover. Shokwave has almost none of these weaknesses.

Major win shockwave

the characters that can use shockwave are more durable than the slash characters

Minor win Shokwave

All in all they are well balanced with shokwave having more advantages but with slashes dealing out more damage and range

Modifié par Zero 2362, 11 août 2012 - 02:52 .

[xtorma]

Cyonan wrote...

So if you redo the numbers, you get:

Electric Slash
Non Cloaked - 450.35 DPS(675.52 vs Shields/Barriers) at 20 meters
Cloaked - 647.15 DPS(970.72 vs Shields/Barriers) at 20 meters

Biotic Slash
527 DPS(790.5 vs Barriers/Armour) at 20 meters

Smash
Electric Evo - 351.25 DPS(614.68 vs Barriers/Armour with Evo 6 upgrade) + DoT at 8 meters
Biotic Evo - 433.49 DPS(758.61 vs Barriers/Armour with Evo 6 upgrade) at 8 meters

looks like smash needs to be looked at , if these numbers are correct.

[Cyonan]

BoomDynamite wrote...

Can you compare them to Shockwave too? I think it's more similar to the Slash's than Smash.

Assuming you run the same spec I do(Damage/Force, Detonation, Recharge Speed) then it does 570 every 2.19 seconds for 260.27 DPS or 390.41 vs Barriers.

Of course, Shockwave gets by on the fact that it's instant(Leaves you less exposed if you aren't using a farm setup and can't hide behind a wall for 95% of the match), as well as having a better BE modifier.

It also beats both of them on force.

[Ulrich282]

The only time that spamming the slashes is actually effective is on Firebase White and Glacier. On Firebase White, more often than not, the spammers get horribly murdered by Phantoms or Primes. Since there is no place in the game to spam safely, and the math is so horribly innacurate, this argument is invalid.

Modifié par Ulrich282, 11 août 2012 - 03:00 .

[Juice Tin]

death_for_sale wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

*Sigh* Again, you only look at the small picture.

I'd try to debate with you, DfS, but I already know you don't care what anyone says, and are absolutely dead set in your plot.

How am I looking at the small picture? This is the next crutch class that people are falling back on to complete difficulties that they would not normally be capable of defeating. The board is lighting up with people complaining about the number of Shadows and Slayers popping up in matches and just using Slash.

You can literally download a macro program and go AFK on these classes for long periods of time, there is no skill involved.

Feel free to bring a debate, if you can dispute what are actual facts.

So by your definition, using a power over and over again involves no skill, right?  So how does using warp and throw differ from spamming slash on the Shadow and Slayer?  That's using the SAME POWERS over and over again... doesn't seem like it involves too much skill either.  OMG FTW NERF THROW WARP AND ALL THE THINGS!!!!

Please, just STFU already EVERYONE with all these damn nerf this crap.  

[landylan]

So you basically want both the slashes to be the same thing as smash? That's basically what they would be if you lowered the cooldown or range.

I'm pretty sure your dps calculations are off. I've not used the slashes recently, but I don't think the cooldown starts until the end of the animation. It's dps was previously lower than smash's. They're probably pretty close now, but smash is back to sucking again.

I think the real problem is that powers can hit through walls. Not sure how the Mass Effect codex explains powers going through walls. If you made them stop going through walls, a lot of corners would start to get in the way though. It's just messed up now imo.

None of these are even good choices on platinum. Like I said earlier. Their dps is a lot lower. They don't kill bosses fast, and there aren't very many lower tiered enemies for them to kill on platinum.

[Zero 2362]

Cyonan wrote...

BoomDynamite wrote...

Can you compare them to Shockwave too? I think it's more similar to the Slash's than Smash.

Assuming you run the same spec I do(Damage/Force, Detonation, Recharge Speed) then it does 570 every 2.19 seconds for 260.27 DPS or 390.41 vs Barriers.

Of course, Shockwave gets by on the fact that it's instant(Leaves you less exposed if you aren't using a farm setup and can't hide behind a wall for 95% of the match), as well as having a better BE modifier.

It also beats both of them on force.

You sorgot to mention shockwave can fire up and down. Slashes cant do that

[TheMachine04]

The shadow and slayer aren't particularly powerful or overepresented. They simply have an ability that annoys some people (OP) when they use it. Those are some nice numbers the OP has posted but they don't reflect the reality of the game. They are isolated and not relevant by themselves. If the OP could somehow argue that those abilites make the game unbalanced or unfair for others or that it allows those two classes to dominate games then they might have a point. As it is now both the slayer and shadow aren't that great on gold or platinum and I doubt many of the high level players on these boards would say that they could be outscored on a GI, SI, Destroyer, Adept, or whatever by one of the two classes mentioned.

[Zero 2362]

TheMachine04 wrote...

The shadow and slayer aren't particularly powerful or overepresented. They simply have an ability that annoys some people (OP) when they use it. Those are some nice numbers the OP has posted but they don't reflect the reality of the game. They are isolated and not relevant by themselves. If the OP could somehow argue that those abilites make the game unbalanced or unfair for others or that it allows those two classes to dominate games then they might have a point. As it is now both the slayer and shadow aren't that great on gold or platinum and I doubt many of the high level players on these boards would say that they could be outscored on a GI, SI, Destroyer, Adept, or whatever by one of the two classes mentioned.

A shadow specked for SS can do well in gold with ES as backup but not the other way round. They flounder on platinum though as its all bosses

[FrozenPhoenix71]

Dfs and anyone who agrees with him, or at least agrees but is incapable of making a good, legitimate argument, I hope the next time you go to post about anything being overpowered on this game your computer bursts into flames and burns your hands to the point where they are useless.

[Rib0flavin]

Just increase that CD so I don't get people spamming it right next to me trying to snipe or get head shots. If it makes people happy increase its damage if the CD is being upped that way they keep the dps.

Just stop the spam please, if people didn't just spam these two moves I would not have an issue with them at all.

[Dendio1]

worst part is we have to endure the screen shake spam.
Great Post OP, ignore those who have nothing to say but, "please don't tell bioware"

Modifié par Dendio1, 11 août 2012 - 03:18 .