142 réponses à ce sujet

[Krantzstone]

BuckshotSamurai wrote...

I may be one of the 10 people in the world who actually like the ML. Sure it's as weak as a condom that's been in a wallet for 6 years, but since the first time I used it I've viewed it as purely a defensive utility. Everything you said in the OP is absolutely true and I love how easy it is to kill a Phantom with the ML constantly keeping her stationary.

<snip>

I loled.

[ChrisRudson]

Okay, I'm back. Viability on Gold is good. Although I had to change the Devastator a little bit to fit into my weapons. I had to put some points on MFG-Launcher up to Rank 4. Fitness is also at Rank 4, fact remains that I don't like running around like a tissue paper.

Missile Redirection works fine, although I suggest you help it track the next target.

Example: When the missiles are about to fire upon a target you just killed, you have to quickly point the crosshair on a different target(Current Target System shows the box thingy around the enemy) as the missile will hit that specific target.

Missile Arching: Curve-Firing the missiles takes practice. When current-target-box is around an enemy and even though he is in cover, the missiles could still hit him.
How? A part of his body needs to be shown in order for the missiles to fire(based from my observation). If not, it won't fire, the missiles would just find another target to fire upon.
So, if you want to hit the guy on cover, I suggest you get a good line of sight for the missile to recognize the target.

Bonus: No matter how far your target is, as long as he is in visual range the missiles will hit it.
The missiles fires upon cloaked enemies(Suck on that hunters!).

Fire explosion: I don't know if this is known yet, but from what I've seen the ML could detonate fire-explosions. I'll have to try this one a little more just to confirm it.

Where to use: The ML is mostly effective on big maps, as you could redirect the missiles without being obstructed by tight corners. I really didn't find the ML worth using on Reactor and Glacier. Your missiles often hit the walls rather than the enemies when you're trying to redirect it.

My play-style: Aggressive in an Effective manner. Never charge in front a swarm of enemies if you think you can't take the hit. Missiles will fire away once it sees the swarm, multi-frag twice, missiles will fire again, then shoot the remaining stragglers.

I'll add more up when I notice something worth adding.
Also, thanks to the OP for making me use the ML again.

Modifié par ChrisRudson, 12 août 2012 - 02:56 .

[SGsunny]

I respecc'd single ML to hydra and it's more fun to watch. However, it's such a pain to read negative comments about it in forum as it undermines the godliness of Destroyer

The ML is the most interesting feature of Destroyer, since a alot of characters have grenades and the Devastator mode doesn't have physical manifestation in combat. Too bad about the low dmg, but I won't remove it because of that.

[Osred]

Stun them, or just eliminate them completely by, y know, killing them. This damage reduction argument is a farce.

Its a terrible ability.

[Maker MEDA]

Really depend on your playstyle I think. I used to have a 6/6/6/6/0 spec as well, but I had to use the 40% shield on Devastator mode to compensate for the missile 50% trim. It seems to do alright, not great, but alright. I went for one missile refire rate, extra damage, and I spec mine on power damage verses weapon and headshot, does my grenades great, but I still turn off the missile most of the time on Platinum.

If you like grenades at their max damage, why not go for missile too, you already spend the power damage increase. But other then that, I still have alot easier time with a no missile launcher build with max weapon bonuses and shield at fitness.

[johnstreetmusic]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

You view an ability that kills your shields as defensive.  LOL.  Just... LOL.

You know... we're in here having a nice discussion and here you come and start ripping people about semantics. I've watched your comments derail alot of good threads recently... please don't do it here. I'm asking nicely.

megabeast37215 is good peoples.

[ParatrooperSean]

Adhok42 wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Multi-frags are the best grenades in the game.

I beg to differ on that one.

They're good for large clusters of enemies such as freshly spawned groups or large fat targets like the Atlas and the Brute but on smaller enemies scattered pretty good distance from each other?

It's like trying to kill an single trooper in a forest with a carpet bomb.

More then likely he's going to get away somehow.

Most of the other grenades are far more accurate at hitting single targets and still retaining enough area damage to match the Multi-frag.

Best grenade against groups? Yes.

Best grenades in the game? No.

And I beg to differ with you.

You can focus all five (or three) grenades at a point target. Simply point, zoom-aim and shoot. If you don't zoom-aim you get a larger spread for greater area damage.

Just a single one of the MF grenades hits with a tramendous damage and force. You can easily get two or three of them within the blast radius of even small point targets.

[Ulrich282]

Make the fire rate based on weight, and buff damage and force

Modifié par Ulrich282, 12 août 2012 - 03:45 .

[ErrorTagUnknown]

BuckshotSamurai wrote...

I may be one of the 10 people in the world who actually like the ML. Sure it's as weak as a condom that's been in a wallet for 6 years, but since the first time I used it I've viewed it as purely a defensive utility. Everything you said in the OP is absolutely true and I love how easy it is to kill a Phantom with the ML constantly keeping her stationary.

That said, you'll never convince most people on BSN of the utility of ML simply because most of them view DPS as the end-all-be-all factor in determining what is good and what isn't. Personally, I don't give a crap about DPS in a lot of circumstances. ML can be and is a lifesaver and since the Destroyer can carry the most powerful weapons in the game without penalty, ML is an awesome tool.

One other bonus that ML gives you is no need to fight your 3 teammates over a limited supply of grenades.

make it 11.  i'm right there with you.   no - i don't like sacrificing something else to get this -- but it is exactly that - a purely defensive weapon. 
EVERYTHING megabeast said is the case
he forgot ONE important fact.  Stagger.   The number of times i've run out of ammo in [weapon] when i'm face to face with a pyro/hunter/phantom/etc.and it has saved my but... well - i can't count --  and i don't even play the destroyer all that much (okay i play him a lot, but i play a lot of other classes too....) 
Either they're low on health/armor and the Missile is just enough to finish them off.... or it staggers them - which coincidentally is long enough to reload just about any weapon and open fire again.
it sticks out in my mind.  i rammed through a line of enemies with the pirahna, and turned a corner while rreloading to find myself face to face with a pyro.... i could almost see that look in his eyes - i knew i couldn't run in time, i knew i couldn't reload in time .. then "beepbeep--ffshhhhhwwwwBAM" he staggers, pirahna reloads, i finish the job.
tis a beautiful thing.

[devwild]

I've tried to make use of it, I really have, but the ability still sucks in my opinion. Any of the turrets on the engineers can do most of what you say, while also...

1) drawing fire away from you,
2) doing more damage,
3) firing at things you aren't looking at (like the hunter that's behind you),
4) being where you want them,
5) firing straight, and
6) not impacting your shields.

And yes I realize a turret gets destroyed, but even considering that I think they are much better balanced and more useful by design.

Also, the arc on this weapon is *horrible*. I am absolutely positive that it would do more damage if it fired straight, because of how frequently it runs into things. If it's going to curve around obstacles, then it should at least be consistently willing to fire at something behind light cover, like every other ability in the game that curves.

Again, my impression, and I'm admittedly not great with weapon-centric characters to begin with, but I think just maxing out the grenades, playing smart, and using teamwork is a far more effective way of keeping things off you. I also have yet to see a single destroyer perform particularly well with the ability on - the best tend to be specced without it and focus on weapon/grenade strength. I seriously think some changes are due to this ability to make it viable as something more than a toy.

[ErrorTagUnknown]

johnstreetmusic wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

You view an ability that kills your shields as defensive.  LOL.  Just... LOL.

You know... we're in here having a nice discussion and here you come and start ripping people about semantics. I've watched your comments derail alot of good threads recently... please don't do it here. I'm asking nicely.

megabeast37215 is good peoples.

indeed.  also - in my current build - which by no means maxes his shields... he still has 700 left.   yeah, he's not sitting on a ton of health and shields -- but with the damage he can put out, if you're smart and careful and mind your shield gate... it's plenty.

[devwild]

ErrorTagUnknown wrote...
i rammed through a line of enemies with the pirahna, and turned a corner while rreloading to find myself face to face with a pyro.... i could almost see that look in his eyes - i knew i couldn't run in time, i knew i couldn't reload in time .. then "beepbeep--ffshhhhhwwwwBAM" he staggers, pirahna reloads, i finish the job.
tis a beautiful thing.

Not that I'm not guilty of it, but I feel like the question should be... Why'd you walk around the corner before reloading?

In face to face fights, I've just as frequently wished the damn thing would fire as I'm reloading and it doesn't.

That would actually be a really useful change to the ability - make it automatically fire when you reload.

Modifié par devwild, 12 août 2012 - 03:54 .

[MingoStarr]

I actually got rid of Cluster Nades today to spec into ML again. Why you may ask?

I simply didn't use the grenades often enough for me to dedicate 21 points into it.

I looked at it like this:
I hardly ever use the cluster grenades, and when I do, I run out too fast and don't use them some more. I either had full grenades, or none. It was this, OR I could spec into a different power that, although it does poor damage per rocket, is getting used 100% of the match.

So basically with my playstyle ML does way more damage in the end than Cluster Nades. And the added benefits of constant staggering, hitting enemies I wasn't shooting at yet, shooting at guys I didn't even know were there, ect.

ML for me has turned out way better than the grenades. The only thing that bothers me is the pro's of the ability don't outweigh the shield reduction. Even with the 15% evo, it still takes away 35% of the shields of a character who is slow and gets shot a bunch. If they lessen the shield reduction, I won't complain about ML ever again.

[xtorma]

I can find a use for a broken paperclip , and an empty toiletpaper roll.

[ErrorTagUnknown]

Meh - i thought it was clear. Just was in a hurry to get somewhere. don't remember exactly?

and by corner i mean behind dagger... you know the ramp down.... then ramp back up -- he was just about to walk into the hallway leading to the circular center room. Maybe i had a few rounds left and fired them - didn't realize i was down to so little of a clip? who knows.
it's not the only time that's happened. i've had the "just one more guy but i'm out of ammo" thing happen with the destroyer a lot.....

[devwild]

ErrorTagUnknown wrote...
Meh - i thought it was clear. Just was in a hurry to get somewhere. don't remember exactly?

I wasn't really criticisizing, like I said, I'm guilty of the same. It's just when chosing the gameplay style for the character, my thoughts above are that it seems more effective to play smart and utilize grenades well than to pray for the launcher that's sucking your shields away and shoots like a drunkard to be there when you need it.

[Biotic_Warlock]

It targets cloaked hunters?

[FlowCytometry]

Its just too high an opportunity cost. Multi-frags are amazing w/ grenade gear, so I'd rather have them. Perhaps if the ML's could trigger TBs, I'd consider, but ehhhh... I'll keep my shields and frags, thanks.

[Archonsg]

The MLs do trigger TBs. Or at least that is what my kill feed tells me. I thought I was confusing it with my weapon ammo mod but saw clearly that it said "Missle Launcher" as cause.
Still wished BW would change that text though, maybe just to "stinger" missles or something.

Anyways, I usually run with a 6/6/6/5/3 Destroyer to have the best of both worlds, full Frags and Hydras. Recently went to the 6/6/6/6/0 for maximum weapon / Grenade / missle damage. This build took a little to get used to and with a poweramp 4, pretty hilarious to see missles actually do some damage. But damn, do I feel soft and had to play more as a distance DPS and hope not to run into Marauder crossfire. Did that for a day and promoted and re-leveled him with the traditional 6/0/6/6/6 build but as someone mentioned earlier felt something is missing and I don't use my grenades all that much, usually only if I run into a phantom or a room with a new clustered spawn. Otherwise its just gun and run.

Will be promoting or repeccing him back to either to the 6/6/6/5/3 or 6/6/6/3/5, for a build with both full evos on grenades and ML. Grenades are great for burst damage where and when you need it, while the ML does what it does and is sadly underrated for it. I do think that the shield penalty is to severe for how much though. Bringing it down or removing it entirely would be enough, well and if they make missle tracking pathing actually hit things especially for the Cobra variant. As is, only the Hydra variant is a viable choice if you want to go ML on the Destroyer.

[ErrorTagUnknown]

devwild wrote...

ErrorTagUnknown wrote...
Meh - i thought it was clear. Just was in a hurry to get somewhere. don't remember exactly?

I wasn't really criticisizing, like I said, I'm guilty of the same. It's just when chosing the gameplay style for the character, my thoughts above are that it seems more effective to play smart and utilize grenades well than to pray for the launcher that's sucking your shields away and shoots like a drunkard to be there when you need it.

generally yes.  heh.  this was the first time i built the guy and the missile launcher sounded cool.   second time i specced out of it.  third time i specced into hydras.   I actually just played a round with the falcon, disrupter II ammo, and the hydra missile evolution and it was quite simply spectacular.  Gave the geth a taste of their own permastageger medicine.

Also - i can confirm that the missile launcher does set off tech bursts...... sometimes?  i couldn't seem to figure out what the conditions were to get a tech burst vs. not.  sometimes a target was primed from the ammo, get hit by the missile and not tech burst - other times it would.  I figure it's either due to the force of impact (in which case cobras would be preferable for this purpose), a specific one of the three missiles (in which case cobra would again be preferable).... or random (in which case the hydras are better... since there are three, and the falcon is applying the disrupter ammo to multiple targets who all get hit by these hydra rockets....

[Curtoss]

Interesting research looks like I'll have to test it more thank you mega also what is your current build on it just to see if I get the same results

[Steven83]

If the Missile Launcher actually allows the Destroyer to designate a target to bombard it, I wouldn't hate it so much, at least I know what it is firing at.

Right now, I see the missile streak out of the launcher, but the by the time it gets to the target, it's already dead from the gunfire. If you really notice that it makes a difference, THAT'S GREAT. But I can't feel the difference except having less shields forces me to drop into cover more often when something heavy hits me. At least frags can stagger those heavy units to buy some time to unload an extra clip.

[BjornDaDwarf]

On Tech Bursts, repeated Bronze, Silver and Gold matches with the ML activated showed no evidence that it detonated TBs, FEs, or CEs. I tested TBs on Silver/Gold, and FEs and CEs on Bronze (to make it easier for it to score the killing blow necessary to detonate them).

When Earth came out, several people independently tested with all 3 types of ammo, and could find no evidence that it was detonating them. When enemies die, some people do confuse that for a burst of some type, as they explode in goo, similar to other explosive weapons.

Being able to detonate those Bursts and Explosions would easily justify the loss of 500 shields. But it simply doesn't, unless someone can provide video evidence to the contrary. I used it to kill dozens of primed enemies and never saw any burst, nor did the kill feed ever register one.

Modifié par BjornDaDwarf, 12 août 2012 - 07:42 .

[ErrorTagUnknown]

I just did a round, i saw the visual results of tech bursts, as well as my kill feed showing tech bursts. I wish i had a video but i'm on xbos and i don't have that equipment ... the rest of the team was a human adept and an asari juticar (the human adept never used shockwave that i can remember) so none triggered by those two.... and the last guy was a human soldier. i don't remember any concussive shots from him.... and at least i got them when he was downed too. i was being quite careful to look for the circumstances behind the tech burst, as it seemed to have very erratic causes (sometimes it would trigger them, sometimes not... couldn't make sense of why. it's either related to the amount of force, which rocket hits the target (of the three) or it's just random. So if it's one of the previous 2, cobra missiles would be better for the task.
I'm going to do another two rounds with this build... one more in the same circumstances but without disruptor ammo... just to see if that's equally effective.... and one more in gold with DAIII instead of II and see if it's viable there, and if i can see more tech bursts.

[ErrorTagUnknown]

Hey Bjorn..... if you can trust my word (since i cant record with video), i'll set up a solo bronze or silver (sorry can't solo gold...) and see if i can trigger tech bursts (i'll ignore the thick red sparky thing and only count it if i see it in the kill feed..). but there won't be any video, you'll have to just take my word.