43 réponses à ce sujet

[key_strokes]

Greetings and happy holidays to everyone!

I've been away from my computer for the past 15 weeks and have had a digital, preordered copy of DA:O awaiting download until my return on Tuesday. I promptly fired up the installer, applied the new patch and proceeded to reroll no less than five characters for the following reason: it seems almost patently clear to me that this game wants me to play a rogue as my main character. Coercion, which only the PC is eligible to develop, is unlocked by cunning (a statistic only beneficial to rogues) and additionally, rogues gain skill points at an accelerated rate which makes it substantially easier to maintain. A rogue as the PC ensures that you're never stumped by locks or traps throughout the entirety of the game and also facilitates ideal party composition.

I know that I should just go ahead and roll the warrior that I'm envisioning but I can't shake the feeling that doing so will come with great opportunity cost. Feedback from those who have played through the game as a non-rogue would be greatly appreciated!

[thegreateski]

The chests have little to nothing of value in them.

[AntiChri5]

key_strokes wrote...

Greetings and happy holidays to everyone!

I've been away from my computer for the past 15 weeks and have had a digital, preordered copy of DA:O awaiting download until my return on Tuesday. I promptly fired up the installer, applied the new patch and proceeded to reroll no less than five characters for the following reason: it seems almost patently clear to me that this game wants me to play a rogue as my main character. Coercion, which only the PC is eligible to develop, is unlocked by cunning (a statistic only beneficial to rogues) and additionally, rogues gain skill points at an accelerated rate which makes it substantially easier to maintain. A rogue as the PC ensures that you're never stumped by locks or traps throughout the entirety of the game and also facilitates ideal party composition.

I know that I should just go ahead and roll the warrior that I'm envisioning but I can't shake the feeling that doing so will come with great opportunity cost. Feedback from those who have played through the game as a non-rogue would be greatly appreciated!

Coercion gives you two options:

Persuade- Boosted by Cunning

Intimidate- Boosted by Strength

This fits the ideal of how those characters get what they want. A clever rouge manipulates people with his wits while a hulking Warrior jets tells people how its gonna be. The mage even gets a few unique intimidate options. Everything else you can just bring a follower for

Modifié par AntiChri5, 22 décembre 2009 - 12:29 .

[CognitiveDissonant]

Oomagh wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

The chests have little to nothing of value in them.

not true, they have quest items and runes etc ....

I personally think that the game falls down on not being able to open locks unless you are a Rogue or have one along,
even there I was shocked that Leliana was unable to open a chest in the top tower and I am not going back! .. I hate Leliana and her phony french accent and her talks, she is mostly in camp...

The only quest I know of that requires chest opening is the correspondus interruptus one, which your right, does require it. But I'm pretty sure thats all. The other locked chest have nothing that is not buyable, and you get at least 80% of your wealth from non-locked chest sources (dead bodies, various objects in the environment other than locked chests).

[thegreateski]

Oomagh wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

The chests have little to nothing of value in them.

not true, they have quest items and runes etc ....

Ummm.... what?

[Bullets McDeath]

Aside from the love letters, which are part of a totally optional quest, you will not miss anything in the main quest storyline from not being able to open chests. You will have more money and xp, but most chests contain vendor trash or roughly the same crap you get from killing a Hurlock. There's a few nice items in chests (Beastman's Dagger) but nothing to lose sleep over. I tend to have a lockpicker on board, but it's not THAT big a hassle to go back through cleared areas with one if you don't. Often you have to go back to wrap up sidequests anyway, so just switch someone out for Leliana when you go back since you won't really need to fight anyway.

Modifié par outlaworacle, 22 décembre 2009 - 12:48 .

[skotie]

CognitiveDissonant wrote...

Oomagh wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

The chests have little to nothing of value in them.

not true, they have quest items and runes etc ....

I personally think that the game falls down on not being able to open locks unless you are a Rogue or have one along,
even there I was shocked that Leliana was unable to open a chest in the top tower and I am not going back! .. I hate Leliana and her phony french accent and her talks, she is mostly in camp...

The only quest I know of that requires chest opening is the correspondus interruptus one, which your right, does require it. But I'm pretty sure thats all. The other locked chest have nothing that is not buyable, and you get at least 80% of your wealth from non-locked chest sources (dead bodies, various objects in the environment other than locked chests).

You do get a lot of gold from them after sales though, depending on the contents of the chests, enchanted arrow or bolts net you a few gold depending on how many you find and if you sell them. Honestly I don't find the extra damage they add to bows/crossbows to be worth it.

But you can certainly get by without opening the chests for sure. As besides selling the bolts/arrow, there really isn't anything of value, I don't even think they have any heavy armor in them to sell.

[Suron]

thegreateski wrote...

Oomagh wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

The chests have little to nothing of value in them.

not true, they have quest items and runes etc ....

Ummm.... what?

what don't you understand about that statement.  While for the most part they don't have anything of value they do in fact are the only way to finish a certain quest in the game.  I don't see what you don't understand about her statement.

[sinosleep]

Max coercion requires a relatively small amount of cunning so I've never considered it something that in any way hurts my non cunning oriented characters. You're bound to get at least 2 +all attribute items and can get 4 total I think I top of getting many free attribute points during the circle of magi quest.

[thegreateski]

Suron wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

Oomagh wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

The chests have little to nothing of value in them.

not true, they have quest items and runes etc ....

Ummm.... what?

what don't you understand about that statement.  While for the most part they don't have anything of value they do in fact are the only way to finish a certain quest in the game.  I don't see what you don't understand about her statement.

1 quest.
Little value.

[AtomZero]

To get Baizyl to fight for Harrowmont, you have to be able to unlock the chest with his love letters in it...

not necessary, you can certainly fight without him, but it is an offshoot of the main story quest (if you choose to side with Harrowmont).

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Max Coercion far as I recall means you don't really need any cunning. +35 cunning in theory should mean you only need 3 boxes full (if what I've read on another topic is true).



Also one of the locked chests in Haven has some stinking boots which are ridiculously awesome... or maybe not, but they might help with being buddies with a certain party member.



As for the whole cunning only applies to rogues, if I remember rightly there are some conversations which do a pure 'cunning' check rather than persuade/intimidate. The other factor is, just because you are a warrior doesn't mean you have to RP them as an intimidating brute, you could easily play the smooth persuasive kind of character.



16 cunning is also needed to max combat tactics

[swk3000]

Persuade and Intimidate don't actually require levels in the Coercion skill to work. Instead, Coercion simply provides a boost when the game checks your stats. Having levels in the Coercion skill makes it easier to pass the Intimidate and Persuasion checks; the skill itself is not required if the appropriate stat is high enough.



Also, Warriors can Intimidate instead of Persuade. Intimidation checks your Strength stat instead of your Cunning stat. However, it's basically impossible to play a good character while using Intimidate, as just about every Intimidate option is, for lack of a better term, evil.

[Exploding8]

I played as a mage with full persuasion (coercion or whatever) and had no difficulty with my stats at all... You only have to put what, 4 or 5 stat points into cunning to unlock all the coercion options right? Its really not a big deal. Not to mention the extra tactics slots you can get from the cunning. And it's extremely rare that you'll find anything of value in locked chests or rooms. Just choose the class you want to play. Try to plan your character out a bit beforehand though, it sucks to realize you destroyed your character when you're half way through the game.

[Avaraen]

I played a tank warrior through the game, with a total of 18 unbuffed Cunning (thanks in part to some free bonus points from a certain quest area). I only ever failed a couple of the early, difficult Persuade checks, and otherwise was able to pass them all with no problem (and I do mean Persuade - I never used Intimidate with the character). A henchman Rogue can handle traps and locks fine as long as you focus on the correct stats and skills, and a non-Rogue PC doesn't really feel the lower skill points because you don't need to consider keeping as many skills maxed.

[konfeta]

Chests merely provide a ton of gold, but require you to compulsively loot everything and sell it off. Disarming Traps and opening Chests provides you with a decent XP boost as well.



You really only miss on Origin and Ostagar chests if you aren't a Rogue. The rest can generally be picked by Leiana or Zevran. If you don't want them in the party, but really want to loot the chests, you can still basically come back to a zone that you cleared separately to just loot all the stuff.

[Tonya777]

You can have a Rogue in your party and they can open chests for you



You get 5 points of CUN (Enough to reach 16) in the fade

[Hulk Hsieh]

You can even clear an area without a rogue, and then go back with a rogue to collcect all chests.

[Lord Phoebus]

I don't think I failed any persuasion/intimidate checks with 4 ranks of coercion and a 16 cunning. It was pretty easy to get it on my mage, since none of the skills really do anything for a mage (I suppose combat training gives you a bonus to mana regen, but you can let your companions handle the rest). Warriors probably have the hardest time picking it up since they need to max combat training pretty quick and they don't get skill points as fast as rogues do. Of course there are tomes that grant bonus skills (3, but only 2 you can pick up quickly) and you get a bonus skill for saving Arl Eamon. So you don't really have any problems getting it with any class.

For lockpicking you can always go back with a rogue party member just before the Landsmeet and loot all the chests (except for Lothering, but Leliana could do that when you pick her up). By that point you could have turned Zevran into a good lockpicker if you dislike Leliana (I can't stand her either and he has funnier party banter too).

Modifié par Lord Phoebus, 22 décembre 2009 - 03:47 .

[key_strokes]

Thanks for the largely reassuring feedback. I want to play through as a 2H warrior (DPS/Off-tank), likely to be a templar/champion. I envision my party also including a dedicated tank, which leaves two slots open for a rogue and mage NPC. I'll be quite satisfied with that composition!

Tonya777 wrote...

You can have a Rogue in your party and they can open chests for you

You get 5 points of CUN (Enough to reach 16) in the fade

As far as this is concerned, and without spoiling too much, when do you end up in the Fade (early/mid/late-game)? I don't want to skimp on CUN while waiting for the free points and end up failing important checks.

[Morvayn]

key_strokes wrote...

As far as this is concerned, and without spoiling too much, when do you end up in the Fade (early/mid/late-game)? I don't want to skimp on CUN while waiting for the free points and end up failing important checks.

If you go to the circle mage tower asap, you'll have the stat bonuses around lvl 8-9. Very early in fact.

[Sylvius the Mad]

thegreateski wrote...

The chests have little to nothing of value in them.

I disagree.  I just went back through the mage tower and the Deep Roads (and Orzammar) to open all the chests I couldn't the first time through (finally got Leliana's Cunning to 30 - high enough to open evey chest) and I'm gaining quite a lot of saleable loot.

I'm not particularly short of cash, but I'm getting a fair amount more by going back for all those chests.

[Dasim4]

If you're like me you detest not being able to open locked items so badly that you'll bring a rogue every time even if you really don't want to. Unfortunately it's a necessity of the game if you want to peek inside those locked items. Certain rooms in the game are also locked and can only be opened by a rogue.



That said the rogue doesn't have to be the PC's character. You can roll whatever you like, such as the warrior you mentioned, and just bring Leliana or Zevran along and switch to them whenever you want to open something. Of course you won't be able to open locked items at the start of the game or whenever you are not in a party but those times are few and the items you get are inconsequential.



It is true that none of the loot is really important to the game but it does provide a decent amount of side income if you are trying to squeeze out every coin you can get your hands on. Someone mentioned that it would be only about 10% of the game's wealth but money is not so easy to come by in DA. 10% is a pretty meaningful amount to some people when things are already fairly tight. Early on especially it provides much needed funds. The same could be said of pickpocketing.

[dkjestrup]

key_strokes wrote...

Thanks for the largely reassuring feedback. I want to play through as a 2H warrior (DPS/Off-tank), likely to be a templar/champion. I envision my party also including a dedicated tank, which leaves two slots open for a rogue and mage NPC. I'll be quite satisfied with that composition!

Tonya777 wrote...

You can have a Rogue in your party and they can open chests for you

You get 5 points of CUN (Enough to reach 16) in the fade

As far as this is concerned, and without spoiling too much, when do you end up in the Fade (early/mid/late-game)? I don't want to skimp on CUN while waiting for the free points and end up failing important checks.

Without spoiling too much, after Ostagar, you have to do 4 main quest events, and in any order. Do the Circle Tower first and you'll go to the fade during that quest. You might want a guide so you find all 5 of them.