43 réponses à ce sujet

[Hulk Hsieh]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I disagree.  I just went back through the mage tower and the Deep Roads (and Orzammar) to open all the chests I couldn't the first time through (finally got Leliana's Cunning to 30 - high enough to open evey chest) and I'm gaining quite a lot of saleable loot.

I'm not particularly short of cash, but I'm getting a fair amount more by going back for all those chests.

People should really learn from you.
You can revisit most places to open the chests that you haven't opened last time.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

key_strokes wrote...
I know that I should just go ahead and roll the warrior that I'm envisioning but I can't shake the feeling that doing so will come with great opportunity cost. Feedback from those who have played through the game as a non-rogue would be greatly appreciated!

If you are itching to play a warrior don't let a few locked chests or fast talking stop you.  You'll have a chance to pick up a rogue fairly quickly for the chests.

If you absolutely have to open every chest, I know I've seen a mod that lets you bash chests open. Try the projects section.

[Legacy_QuEsT]

key_strokes wrote...

Greetings and happy holidays to everyone!

I've been away from my computer for the past 15 weeks and have had a digital, preordered copy of DA:O awaiting download until my return on Tuesday. I promptly fired up the installer, applied the new patch and proceeded to reroll no less than five characters for the following reason: it seems almost patently clear to me that this game wants me to play a rogue as my main character. Coercion, which only the PC is eligible to develop, is unlocked by cunning (a statistic only beneficial to rogues) and additionally, rogues gain skill points at an accelerated rate which makes it substantially easier to maintain. A rogue as the PC ensures that you're never stumped by locks or traps throughout the entirety of the game and also facilitates ideal party composition.

I know that I should just go ahead and roll the warrior that I'm envisioning but I can't shake the feeling that doing so will come with great opportunity cost. Feedback from those who have played through the game as a non-rogue would be greatly appreciated!

you're not missing out if you don't roll a rogue.

coersion gives 10 points per point in it. The game is capped out at 60 skill points for the hardest persuasian and generally the persuasians get harder as the game progresses, which means you won't be missing out on anything if you add the 4 coersian skill points in through your gameplay.

Also, strength contributes to coersion through {intimidate} so you will be getting the same opportunities with a warrior to intimidate people into doing what you want.


as for opening chests, that was my gripe too. There is a mod that allows you to bust open chests with a warrior or mage with strength checks or something like that. go to the projects link and find the mod.

[Solistus1]

The cunning requirement for Coercion is tiny. Coercion is handy but you can win the game with 0 points in it. Since you don't really need any other skills on your main (all you need is Coercion, someone with Herbalism, maybe other party members with Survival and/or Poisonmaking and/or Trapmaking if you fancy), a Warrior or Mage can still max Coercion and Combat Tactics and be good to go.



Rogues make good mains, but you are FAR from pigeonholed into one. You can gain all the benefits of a Rogue by just bringing one along with you, aside from the horrible cost of having to waste a handful of stat points on Cunning to get Coercion. Besides, Cunning isn't entirely useless for Warriors; according to the description it boosts armor piercing.



Most players would agree that if the game mechanics lock you into any 'correct' PC choice, it's Mage. Mages are the most powerful class by far, yet you only get 2 NPC mages and they have radically different personalities so keeping both of them in a group requires careful approval balancing and is just... odd (one is a somewhat callous, survival-of-the-fittest type witch with a dark sense of humor; the other is an old woman healer with all the personality of a log). That said, I remember reading that Warrior was the most popular PC class according to Bioware's stats, despite there being more Warrior NPC options than any other class and no obvious reason to need a Warrior main.

[borelocin]

Have played through as a rogue (once) warrior (twice) and mage (once). I'm on my second rogue playthrough now - as an archer.



Had just as much fun with the rest as I did with a rogue - I missed some chest stuff before I picked up Leliana in Lothering I'm sure but nothing crucial.

[Sarevok Anchev]

Skills:

-Main Char: 4xCombat, 4xCoercion

-2nd Warrior: 4xCombat, 4xSurvival

-Rogue: 4xSteal, 4xCombat, 4xTrap or Poison

Mage: 4xHerbs, 4xPoison/Combat



So there is all you need of all skills devided.



About Chests: Open Lock also disarms traps.

And locked chests + Traps will give you a big chunk of XP!

+money is scarce and the best items are 100-150 Gold, so you should take every crap

you can find and sell it.

[Pyrusx]

Doesn't cunning also enhance armor penetration, which is useful for warriors?

[Sarevok Anchev]

Pyrusx wrote...

Doesn't cunning also enhance armor penetration, which is useful for warriors?

When combined with Lethality you get the highest Dps-Rogue-build.

+STR increases hit rate and lets you wear heavier armor/weapon(not necessary for Rogues)
+DEX incredibly high Defense(good for Rogues+ hit for Daggers/Bows)
+CUN with (Lethality): Assassin damage bonus with sneak attack(based on CUN), armor penetration, damage bonus instead of STR with Lethality(Veshialle best solution imo)
Also: need only 1 point in Coercion and Open-Locks each
-CUN no bonus to Physical Resistance

[nksaint]

Sarevok Anchev wrote...


When combined with Lethality you get the highest Dps-Rogue-build.

+DEX incredibly high Defense(good for Rogues+ hit for Daggers/Bows)

Dexterity actually increases damage for daggers and bows.  Any piercing weapon because you can handle the points more deftly....or something like that is what the game says.

[menasure]

coercion does give you a more refined view on the story and more manipulative approaches, it's not really a requirement but more of an option for role playing perspectives. for reward it can be a trade off between story and xp but it will never have a dramatic impact for the whole of the game.

lock picking is no requirement to play the game, the items you can find in them were deliberately kept limited in use. it does help for exp, gold and traps but you sacrifice something other in stead just by making a choice.

cunning gives a general modifier for many things, though rogues get 2X the benefit for combat skills compared to other classes. unless it's really low you do not really need it for other characters, but just for combat reasons a few points do not hurt one way or another, especially for your main character who'll have to deal with npc's in conversations.

it's an rpg and you can pretty much play it with whatever party you want, though some difficulties will be more suitable than others for different parties and the learning curve is steep. you can adjust your difficulty whenever you like it though and there's no shame asking for help on the forum, you would not be the first who apparently got 'stuck' but managed to get out with some advice. the easiest plays involve a party with a tank (mostly warrior with shield, otherwise shale) and a mage with healing skills. keep some suitable ranged weapons besides your usual weapon and do not just waste your potions because you might still need them for your next fight.

Modifié par menasure, 22 décembre 2009 - 12:40 .

[DeathTyrant]

I don't know if it's just me, but I could swear that there are far more 'persuade' options than 'intimidate' options, and low strength was not a factor (experiments with cheated character stats up to almost 200).

[Sarevok Anchev]

nksaint wrote...

Sarevok Anchev wrote...


When combined with Lethality you get the highest Dps-Rogue-build.

+DEX incredibly high Defense(good for Rogues+ hit for Daggers/Bows)

Dexterity actually increases damage for daggers and bows.  Any piercing weapon because you can handle the points more deftly....or something like that is what the game says.

Yes... i didnt mention it, because i thought it would be obvious :happy:

[RamsenC]

I'm pretty sure you only need 16 cunning + coercion to sweet talk anyone. I pretty much do this on every character since warriors only need combat training and mages need even less. The rest of the skills can be picked up by your party. With the bonuses you get from the fade you don't even have to go out of your way to raise cunning.

[Sarevok Anchev]

RamsenC wrote...

I'm pretty sure you only need 16 cunning + coercion to sweet talk anyone. I pretty much do this on every character since warriors only need combat training and mages need even less. The rest of the skills can be picked up by your party. With the bonuses you get from the fade you don't even have to go out of your way to raise cunning.

The formula goes like this:

There are 4 difficulties of Coercion-checks: 25, 50 ,75 ,100

For every point of Cunning/Strength above 10 you get 1 POINT.
For every point in the Skill Coercion you get 25 POINTS.

So, if you take 4 points in Coercion, you could have ZERO STR/CUN and would still get all Dialog-options.
If you take 1 level in Coercion and have 75 STR/CUN (should be only possible for 2h Warriors and CUN based Dps-Rogues) you would be fine.

All others will need 3-4 points in Cunning, for reaching the 100 POINTS for the highest difficulty.

[Brigonos]

Oomagh wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

The chests have little to nothing of value in them.

not true, they have quest items and runes etc ....

I personally think that the game falls down on not being able to open locks unless you are a Rogue or have one along,
even there I was shocked that Leliana was unable to open a chest in the top tower and I am not going back! .. I hate Leliana and her phony french accent and her talks, she is mostly in camp...

The phony french accent performed by a french woman?

[brownstudies]

Like most say, you really aren't missing out on anything in the chests apart from a chance to gain a tad more silver at the merchant's stores. If you don't mind mods, there's an Open Lock spell you can download for Mages here. Not sure why Bioware didn't include something similar.... If I can cast a cone of fire from my hands, I can damn well pick a lock <_<

[brownstudies]

Aha, and here's the lock bash in case you haven't found it already

[ejoslin]

One thing I've noticed, with high cunning you get more dialog options, and not all of them are labeled [cunning]. There are at least two extra in ostegar, one at Flemeth's hut. They're not necessary to the plot, but it was interesting to see them. I'm sure there are a lot more as well.