16 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

An idea has come to me as a means of dealing with the mage question, and that is: create towns around the Circles.

The main reason for this, at least at first, is to provide a means for the families of mages to remain in close contact with them. Relocation costs may be paid for by the Circle if necessary, but with luck, that won't always be necessary. The other reason for this is to create a means for the mages to socialize more easily with the outside world, to create a protected space where they can interact with mundanes and better acclimatize themselves to the real world. The town itself would be guarded by the sentinels (my name for secularized warriors with templar training). Apprentices would remain within the one Circle until their graduation, but afterwards could freely travel between different Circle towns, with more expanded privileges for those with proven control.

I may add more characteristics to this as I go, but a few more things to emphasize: the sentinels, aside from a few token observers in case of emergency, are not allowed inside the Circle building itself except by invitation. The sentinels are there to mobilize in case of a demonic emergency, but the Circle itself is a domain of magic; of the mages, by the mages and for the mages. The sense of privacy and sovereignty, I believe, should aid in alleviating some resentment. The Circle town is the sentinels' domain, a buffer zone where mages and mundanes can easily and safely interact, and the mundanes can learn the potential benefits of having mages nearby.

The First Enchanter and sentinel commander are more or less equal in rank, but all things to do with strictly magical matters are decided on by the mages alone. The purpose of the sentinels is to weigh in on interactions between mages and mundanes, as well as to defend against demonic incursions; the sentinels do not govern the lives of mages.

[MisterJB]

This is a terrible idea. Create towns around Circles and it's only a matter of time until peasants look to mages for leadership. If mundanes should not govern the lives of mages, then neither should mages govern the lives of mundanes.

Escorted visits to cities for mages that can be trusted should be possible as well as parental visits to the Circle but that is the extent of it.

[Xilizhra]

This is a terrible idea. Create towns around Circles and it's only a matter of time until peasants look to mages for leadership. If mundanes should not govern the lives of mages, then neither should mages govern the lives of mundanes.

But aren't mundanes inherently terrified of mages? What possible set of circumstances could lead to mundanes seeing a mage as an admired leader, under such absolutes?
Anyway, normal administrative functions for nonmagical functions of the town would probably be handled by mayors and suchlike. Unless the townspeople decide otherwise, of course.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
But aren't mundanes inherently terrified of mages? What possible set of circumstances could lead to mundanes seeing a mage as an admired leader, under such absolutes?
Anyway, normal administrative functions for nonmagical functions of the town would probably be handled by mayors and suchlike. Unless the townspeople decide otherwise, of course.

Normal people are also terrified of dragons. That doesn't mean some don't come to worship them. Mages are powerful and educated and it would be ridiculously easy for them to take power.

Another ridiculous thing are your double standards. Mages can't be governed by mundanes because they will be opressed. But you do not acknowledge that mages governing mundanes can lead to opression just as easily and has lead to opression many, many times.
I'm starting to think pro-mages are not so much as equalists as simply supremacists.

[Xilizhra]

Normal people are also terrified of dragons. That doesn't mean some don't come to worship them. Mages are powerful and educated and it would be ridiculously easy for them to take power.

The sentinels are there to handle interactions between the world of magic and the world of the mundane. I suspect they'd handle governance of the town in general.

Another ridiculous thing are your double standards. Mages can't be governed by mundanes because they will be opressed. But you do not acknowledge that mages governing mundanes can lead to opression just as easily and has lead to opression many, many times.
I'm starting to think pro-mages are not so much as equalists as simply supremacists.

The long and short of it is that mages are disadvantaged in societal terms by nature, as they have to endure some form of confinement as a means of protection against demons. No matter who happens to lead mundanes, they don't have to ever have their freedoms restricted in the same manner, and it can be justly condemned if it starts to happen. But as mages start off on a poor footing already, it's easier for that to sneak up on everyone, and I want to give them as little reason as possible to want to rebel again.

[MisterJB]

It's better if the town is not there in the first place. The current system works just fine. Just make some minor changes regarding personal freedom like the rights for mages to raise their own children and such.

Mages start on a poor footing? They are born with incredible natural advantages that place them above their fellow man. The demons are a threat but if the mage can master them, he will even learn how to control the minds of others.
The mundanes are the ones in danger.

[MisterJB]

It's not as if tyrants need a good reason to opress others. Do you believe the Magisters really fear mundanes?

[LobselVith8]

This reminds me of when I hoped apostate Hawke would be able to make Kirkwall a mecca for mages - freeing the nearby Circle of Kirkwall, and trying to establish a society of mages living alongside non-mages. Hamlets are an interesting concept, but do you think the Circle Towers will remain if the mages are spending years fighting to maintain their autonomy from the templars and the Chantry?

[Xilizhra]

It's better if the town is not there in the first place. The current system works just fine. Just make some minor changes regarding personal freedom like the rights for mages to raise their own children and such.

The current system is crap. I will not equivocate.

This reminds me of when I hoped apostate Hawke would be able to make Kirkwall a mecca for mages - freeing the nearby Circle of Kirkwall, and trying to establish a society of mages living alongside non-mages. Hamlets are an interesting concept, but do you think the Circle Towers will remain if the mages are spending years fighting to maintain their autonomy from the templars and the Chantry?

You'd try to set that up in Kirkwall? Somewhere where a mage can't become an abomination just by saying "Please help me, someone, anyone" might work a bit better, although I understand the motivation. As for the towers... well, why not? They're large, roomy and have all the right infrastructure in place, and it seems like a lot of them are ancient. Considering how many resources would be required to build up the towns in the first place, building wholly new Circle buildings doesn't seem to be a great use of resources.

[LobselVith8]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Sandal should open a factory to produce many magical resistance weapons, armors, shields, clothes...doors...

Sandal is probably going to be doing those things for the Empress, since he got that fancy gig in the royal court. The man has talent.

Xilizhra wrote...

You'd try to set that up in Kirkwall?

Before I actually played Dragon Age II, when I speculated that Hawke could be proactive.

[Dave of Canada]

The only recommendation I'd have for improving the Circle system is introducing an optional town around the city which will be shelter for the families of the Mages and the Templar but not make them any more open than Ferelden's Circle of having families visit.

The civilians residing within would work with the Tranquil, bringing profits to the Circle and making the lifestyle sustained by mages manageable. They'd move in at their own risk, knowing fully well that mages could adorn the fleshy suit of abomination-hood.

Wouldn't change much for the mages who had their parents abandon them, though mages with more supportive parents like Finn will have easier access.

It would also provide a second layer of defense should the tower fall.

[Insaner Robot]

Who are the mages answerable to? Who are the sentinels answerable?

"more or less equal" With mages more equal as the first enchanter has as much authority as the commander in the town, the tower however is an area of supreme power and authority for the mages.
How long until a mage takes the step to declare himself/herself a magister or the commander goes the route of Meredith?

Unless you have a third entity neither mage or templar to govern mages/mundanes/templars but possesses the power , possibly military, to back up their authority and step in on any disagreements or stop any rebelious (violent) actions of either the mages or the templars.

This still isn't a perfect solution of course.

[Xilizhra]

Who are the mages answerable to? Who are the sentinels answerable?

Ultimately, the Grand Enchanter/whomever the ultimate sentinel leader is.

"more or less equal" With mages more equal as the first enchanter has as much authority as the commander in the town, the tower however is an area of supreme power and authority for the mages.
How long until a mage takes the step to declare himself/herself a magister or the commander goes the route of Meredith?

The sentinel commander will probably have an edge in rank when it comes to dealings with mundanes or matters that affect them directly.

[General User]

I've always thought that the monastic communities of the Medieval Europe would be a good model for the Circles of Thedas, only instead of being communities and institutions dedicated to religious study and prayer, Circles would be dedicated to magical study and training younger mages.

I feel Circles should be communities from which persons could come and go as they pleased (within the limits set by the powers that be of course). And that it's important that the Circles, like monasteries, remain independent/semi-independent yet still very much a part of the nations within which they reside. I.E., contributing to the national cultural tapestry rather than trying to weave their own.

I believe that the First Enchanter, similar to any other noble, should be the undisputed head of the Circle and it's attendant community. But, unlike the landed nobility who derive their position by birth, the position of First Enchanter should be filled by a mage of the local Empress/Queen/Vicountess/etc.'s choosing.

While I don't see any inherent need for an (quasi)independent police force like the Sentinels, and (as a general principle) would prefer to see each Circle decide for itself how best to police itself, I can see how some Circles might choose to use something of the sort.

Modifié par General User, 13 août 2012 - 05:00 .