215 réponses à ce sujet

[Lazarus Magni]

http://games.yahoo.c...-223042438.html

Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 07 septembre 2012 - 04:50 .

[Lazarus Magni]

I gotta admit WOW and similar games have always tickled me. Not only are those people limited in terms of their gaming potential (unlike nwn1 which is nearly open source hence it allows for basically anything in terms of game play), but they are also limited by the fact that is it pay to play... Sorry, but if I already bought the game, I shouldn't have to pay to play it. And IMHO anyone who does is a sucker. That is the biggest scam in gaming ever.... Perhaps that is the reason "MMO are dying"

If a game dev actually learned a lesson from the last decade, it would be that players like open source games like this, and further more, if they want it to be profitable in the long run they would provide a top notch hosting service for PWs run off it's open source engine. PW owners pay for hosting anyways, if game developers want to continue to profit from supporting a game, rather than the pay to play (aka wow) scam, how bout giving us a MMORPG, that is as open source as nwn 1 (if not more so), or oblivion, or Fo3, and yet fully supported on the hosting end by the game devs?

It's not complicated really, in fact rather a gem... Give the players what they want, and provide a hosting service which PWs pay for already (externally) anyways, but through you we can recieve the best support, and you can continue to profit [aka have a reason for doing so] from the game for years {or as in the case of NWN 1 over a decade} with out the pay to play crap...

Did I just say that?

Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 12 août 2012 - 06:25 .

[ehye_khandee]

While this is a valid viewpoint, I would like to put this in to both elicit feedback and to illuminate the fact that it would not be anywhere near so profitable. ATM the p2p system gets every participant paying where your model would have the company drawing only hosting fees. Many using nwn host locally ('at home') so that part of the audience would not likely be interested in paying for hosting either, and likely get alienated by any change to require paid hosting on the 'company' servers.

While NWN was surely profitable, selling large numbers of games over the years, it is not the cash cow that WOW is and has been - precisely because of the hosting / published setting arrangement. Now, I have never been one with either the interest nor the discretionary funds to drop 10 or 20 dollars each month on a game I already purchased, so maybe that is why I never saw the player appeal (that and, well, I'm a D&Der for 30+ years and I LIKE to make my own adventures). The bottom line, is as it is, money. P2P makes way more money than these traditional games do for the publisher, until the bulk of the audience changes their ways and opts out of the P2P games, there will be more of them made. This does nothing to deter me from building in NWN.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA

http://playnwn.com

[MagicalMaster]

Lazarus Magni wrote...

I gotta admit WOW and similar games have always tickled me. Not only are those people limited in terms of their gaming potential (unlike nwn1 which is nearly open source hence it allows for basically anything in terms of game play), but they are also limited by the fact that is it pay to play... Sorry, but if I already bought the game, I shouldn't have to pay to play it. And IMHO anyone who does is a sucker.

Allows nearly anything in terms of game play?  Hardly.  The base engine mechanics aren't particularly good and aren't adjustable.

Take the rounds system for example.  Try attacking an enemy that's running away as a melee character sometime.  You'll just keep following them before you need to stop and have a round start before you can attack.  Try switching targets as a physical attacker.  You can stand there for up to six seconds waiting to actually swap targets.

NWN's saving grace is that a ton of it is adjustable and this makes it interesting despite the significantly inferior mechanics compared to WoW.  But I've always wished I had the WoW engine with NWN toolset.

Also, you're paying to play for two reasons.

First, you're getting new content every few months.

Second, it's a MMORPG.  Which means you need dedicated servers (and a lot of them).  You're paying to have them host everything and be able to play with everyone else.

If it was legal for a NWN PW to charge money to play there to compensate for development time and the fact that they're constantly hosting the game, would you be so outraged?  Say at $1 a month?

I'm guessing you'd be willing to do so if it was a good server.  Which brings me to a Winston Churchill quote:

Churchill: "Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?"
Socialite: "My goodness, Mr. Churchill... Well, I suppose... we would have to discuss terms, of course... "
Churchill: "Would you sleep with me for five pounds?"
Socialite: "Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!"
Churchill:  "Madam, we've already established that. Now we are haggling about the price”

Welcome to the club!

Modifié par MagicalMaster, 12 août 2012 - 03:45 .

[Lazarus Magni]

Ehye (ODA),
If you think about the 1000's of servers that have been in existance over the decade of NWN1's life so far, it may not be as profitable as p2p, but it certainly would be profitable. Don't you think if they had done this, we might still be supported (e.g. have the master server, amoungst other things)?

And Magical,
Sure there are flaws of a 10 year old game, but apparently you are not aware of how customizable the game is. It's on par with oblivion, Fo3, and others (or even exceeds them), but the difference is it's multiplayer.

Laz

[MagicalMaster]

What makes you think I'm not aware of how customizable the game is (hint: I've gone so far as to develop a framework for a completely new physical attack system with active abilities instead of watching your character auto-attack while maybe spamming Knockdown or some other feat)? There's a reason it still interests me, but sometimes the mechanics frustrate me.

I'm simply saying that at the root, the combat engine, UI, and some other stuff has major flaws. And sometimes much of the customizing is trying to get around the major flaws. And it has nothing to do with being a ten year old game. WoW is eight years old.

Also, were you trying to dodge the question of whether you'd pay $1 a month to play on a NWN server you enjoyed to support its development and cover hosting costs?

[Lazarus Magni]

I think you just proved my point with how customizable NWN 1, by your own example.

And I dodged nothing, there is no point to a response. I am pretty sure WOW cost a hell of a lot more than 1$ a month, and donation based servers are already the norm in NWN 1 (and have been pretty much the whole time). I just think people shouldn't have to pay to play a game they already paid to buy.

Furthermore, this line of thinking also proves my point that a game developer could do quite well off this buisness model. A lot of money was made off nwn 1 over the last 10 years, and bioware missed out on a not insignificant chunk of it. Sure some people invested a ton of money into home setups, but many others payed (and/or are continuing to pay) a hosting service like rak space, or what have you. The money goes to someone regardless of who that is, why not the game developer? This would also give them incentive for continuing to supporting the game...

Player based "developers" (i.e. PW owners/builders) is a whole seprate issue.

Laz

P.S. Most of this discussion doesn't have much directly to do with the article I posted that started this thread, however indirectly I think it does have some interesting insights.

Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 13 août 2012 - 07:03 .

[Baaleos]

I used to be hard core into mmo's
City of Heroes - used to be really good, now I can barely force myself to play it.

Now - the only MMO's I show interest in, are the ones where I can make a one of purchase, to get a life time subscription.
Means 'Should' I decide to play again in the future, I get the veteran rewards, as well as the ability to play and stop playing whenever I want.

But - to be honest - many mmo's are dying, they all copy eachother, and are re-used to death.
Its a bit of a running joke, that every mmo is a clone of every other mmo that came before.
All that changes is the graphical assets.
Functionality, gameplay mechanisms etc remain the same
I've run a WOW and Aion private server for a while, and I can tell you, that the database structure is 90% identical.
a login server
a game server
game server db has characters, inventory, and quests
login server has logins

The databases are identical across most mmo's
Just like the gameplay

[WebShaman]

Well, I think it is pretty much established that I am a NWN fan.

That said, I think the numbers involved here pretty much show that the majority of players (or whatever you wish to call them) prefer games like WoW.

I mean...just look at it.

NWN you buy once. You can do a lot with it. You can run your own world, blah blah blah. But you have to invest work to do this. Believe me, as a former PW Owner, Staff member, etc, running a PW is a LOT of work!!! It also requires a lot of time.

Purchasing a game like WoW and subscribing (provided such is necessary) basically is exchanging money for this experience without the work or loss of time necessary to reproduce it.

Lots seem to prefer this system to that of NWN. In fact, the numbers are so skewed, that any company even remotely interested in developing and/or producing these types of games will go where the money is.

Only your little companies will explore alternatives, due to the costs involved of getting a MMO up and running (not to mention the risk involved here of failing...).

AFAIK, NO COMPANY is interested in repeating the NWN model. Obsidian tried it, and fell short due to a number of reasons that does not need to be discussed here (as it is documented history).

Could it succeed? I firmly believe so (and as I have repeatedly stated here, I would suggest basing such a model on Pathfinder. Make the system as open as possible. I think this would work.

However, would such a system ever rival a MMO like WoW? I really do not know. Perhaps if it was tied into the Social scene somehow.

[Cloven_Hoof]

I wonder if there will ever be another game like NWN1. A fun RPG that you can play offline, alone, open world and where the multitude of classes with different styles make for a replayability factor that is equal to or even surpasses the number of classes selectable.
I was so hyped for Skyrim, but I can't bring myself to start another character than the very first and only one I started, simply because it wouldn't be much different.

Modifié par Cloven_Hoof, 13 août 2012 - 03:08 .

[NWN_baba yaga]

I believe NWN is a one-hit-wonder. 10 years have past and we have done everything to bring NWN to a point, graphically and mod wise where it is realy not that dull looking game it once was. But the people are talking anyway about it´s bad gfx as if there are no mods that enhance this game beyond it´s original capabilities. For me this is our game, we are in small numbers no doubt but who cares.

[Lazarus Magni]

Just one small point about the difference of success WOW has had VS NWN 1. WOW had a massive marketing campaign. Anyone who has watched TV in the last 8 years has prolly seen a WOW commercial. I don't ever recall seeing a NWN 1 commercial. In fact I can't even recall how I got turned on to it in the first place...

I don't think you can chalk up a games success to people like simple, and are willing to pay for less diversity, simply not to have to do the work. As a player on nwn 1 for over 8 years before I got involved in building, and then eventually became a PW owner, all I did is play, and it involved no extra work on my part (other than research to find what builds I liked, and were effective, given a particular PW's environment.) The "Work" of PW developers comes from an entirely different breed of players, and NWN 1 has proven those players are out there.

P.S. NWN 2 is not a good example of a developer trying to repeat what NWN 1 did. It was nothing like NWN 1, in terms of customization potential, and there are so many other reasons the whole nwn 1 community didn't convert to nwn2 when it came out... (hell I bought it, played it some, and then came back to the original and the best.)

Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 13 août 2012 - 07:02 .

[Birdman076]

Having played almost every MMO out there at one point or another, a few for long periods of time I can say wholeheartedly it wasn't the content or the eye candy that kept me playing. It was the social aspect of the MMOs that kept me going. I have yet to see or hear of widespread NWN player use of VOIP services like Mumble, Team Speak, or Ventrilo. I was first introduced to Ventrilo back when I started playing NWN on a uBp server and I never ever want to play online without a voice server again. I've played Pay to Play games like WoW and EVE, I've played Free to Play, Item Mall Play to Win, and everything in between and the ones I always return to are the ones where I had to most fun with the most people I played with. To me the biggest boat NWN is still missing is having to type everything in the game as the main form of communication.

As far as cookie cutter MMOs go, its the ADD nature of people these days that keep them interested in playing the next big thing. Case in point would be Silkroad Online, the main files were leaked and private servers are popping up every day. As soon as the next one pops up, everyone jumps on that band wagon until the next big thing comes along. Always chasing that elusive dream of feeling like they did in the beginning when everything was new, exciting, and everyone was in it for the LOLs or to see if server B offers something different from server A. Its like a bunch of hamsters being on a wheel..

[NWN_baba yaga]

That "bunch of hamsters being on a wheel" quote is so true man, absolutely true;)

[Lazarus Magni]

Very true, plenty of nwn 1 servers use things like Ventrilo however.

I would just like to say though, hosting providers like ad-sl.com which provide quality, and reasonably priced hosting, as compared with rak-space and what not, could easily be done by game developers as well. Don't you all think we might still have the "master server" for example if bioware was still making money off nwn 1 after over 10 years? Not to mention other support, and continued promotion of their game... Hell maybe even other expansions would have been released...

Disclaimer: I am not saying these things have a chance in hell of happening for NWN 1, I am just saying what would have happened if bioware would have taken this approach from the beginning? How might things be different? I think they would be substantially different.

[MagicalMaster]

Lazarus Magni wrote...

I think you just proved my point with how customizable NWN 1, by your own example.

Yet it was a constant struggle.  And while I can make abilities to be used, I don't know if it's possible to actually make your character do a swing *when you use them*.  Aka, while you have buttons to press, your actual animations are the normal auto attacks plus some extra numbers popping up.

And that still doesn't change the base six-second round system.  Or the limited UI (though I developed a script system to show health as a percentage after the creature/player name, can't really do anything about buffs/debuffs
though, I think).

I was tempted to make a PW using these systems and make a "fresher" NWN with an updated combat system, but I'm not sure how many people would even be interested.

Lazarus Magni wrote...

And I dodged nothing, there is no point to a response. I am pretty sure WOW cost a hell of a lot more than 1$ a month, and donation based servers are already the norm in NWN 1 (and have been pretty much the whole time). I just think people shouldn't have to pay to play a game they already paid to buy.

$15 a month at most.

So your problem is "have to pay" versus "expected to donate?"  You'd rather donate $5 a month to a server than be forced to pay $4 a month, for example?

WebShaman wrote...

NWN you buy once. You can do a lot with it. You can run your own world, blah blah blah. But you have to  invest work to do this. Believe me, as a former PW Owner, Staff member, etc, running a PW is a LOT of work!!! It also requires a lot of time.

Purchasing a game like WoW and subscribing (provided such is necessary) basically is exchanging money for this experience without the work or loss of time necessary to reproduce it.

Lots seem to prefer this system to that of NWN. In fact, the numbers are so skewed, that any company even
remotely interested in developing and/or producing these types of games will go where the money is.

I think a larger issue is that most people see NWN as the original campaign(s).  It wasn't pushed as PW/MMO type game.  The social bonds and idea of playing with a bunch of people never took off on a large scale.

Lazarus Magni wrote...

I don't think you can chalk up a games success to people like simple, and are willing to pay for less diversity, simply not to have to do the work. As a player on nwn 1 for over 8 years before I got involved in building, and then eventually became a PW owner, all I did is play, and it involved no extra work on my part (other than research to find what builds I liked, and were effective, given a particular PW's environment.) The "Work" of PW developers comes from an entirely different breed of players, and NWN 1 has proven those players are out there.

I agree.  But I didn't even find out about PWs until I had played NWN off and on for something like six years.  I just did the official campaigns, didn't even know custom content existed.  Nor did I ever do multiplayer.  And unfortunately, I doubt my experience was atypical.

If NWN had marketed more and the online play (especially for PWs) had been pushed more, things may have been different.

Modifié par MagicalMaster, 13 août 2012 - 10:58 .

[Pstemarie]

MagicalMaster wrote...

Allows nearly anything in terms of game play?  Hardly.  The base engine mechanics aren't particularly good and aren't adjustable.

Take the rounds system for example.  Try attacking an enemy that's running away as a melee character sometime.  You'll just keep following them before you need to stop and have a round start before you can attack.  Try switching targets as a physical attacker.  You can stand there for up to six seconds waiting to actually swap targets.

blah...blah...blah

Having worked with this engine for 10 years and seeing what myself and others have done with the core engine, I beg to differ. True, large parts of the engine are hard-coded, but numerous CC authors have found routes around those limitations. To sit back and ignore the amount of content that has been made for this game is preposterous. The PRC alone adds dozens of classes, spells, and feats. CEP and Project Q added hundreds of creatures, portraits, placeables, etc. 

If you don't understand how to incorporate this content - just ask 

As for the AI "issue" you mention, it is a simple fix requiring a handful of lines that has been implemented by myself and many others. 

[Birdman076]

The sad fact is that developers would be the in the same boat those of us who still play, host, and mod are in with NWN 10 years later. Everyone wants to do their own thing, has their own vision, or has their own ideas about how things should be with very few willing to compromise their ideals/ideas/concepts/etc to work with others who have the same passion for the game. Now, if those of us who were left were to be more flexible with our creative ideas of how things should be and put forth a canvas on which all who are left could paint and share their ideas and concepts, well I personally think our little MMO would just about make the big boys take notice or at the very least cause a bit of scuttle butt enough to muster some steam from this old beast and get some more people on board.

Of course that is and has been a pipe dream of mine for some years, a mega world with multiple servers working in tandem rather then volleying for players as the base shrinks.

[Lazarus Magni]

MagicalMaster wrote...

Lazarus Magni wrote...

And I dodged nothing, there is no point to a response. I am pretty sure WOW cost a hell of a lot more than 1$ a month, and donation based servers are already the norm in NWN 1 (and have been pretty much the whole time). I just think people shouldn't have to pay to play a game they already paid to buy.

$15 a month at most.

So your problem is "have to pay" versus "expected to donate?" You'd rather donate $5 a month to a server than be forced to pay $4 a month, for example?

Ok... 15$ a month over 8 years is 1440$. To play a game you likely payed over 100$ already (with expansions) to purchase initially. I have played nwn 1 for over 9 years, and have only donated something like 20 $ to a server once in that time. From a players perspective, the whole WOW p2p thing is, as I stated at the top, a scam.

My "problem" is "have to pay" OR "expected to donate" not VS. You seem to be making the assumption that all nwn 1 servers are donation based. Not just donation based, but you have to donate. While that's true for some, certainly not all. My server for example is not pay to play, nor are people expected to donate. People can donate. I accept donations in terms of people's time (content contributors) which I give them an in game reward for. But it's not a reward they can't earn as players in game as is. In fact given how much time building takes, you can prolly earn more by playing than from submitting content. It's just a token of my appreciation. Oh and I recently started accepting donations to certain charities I feel are worthwhile, and true to their mission on an experimental basis. But I don't make any money off this, I am not even the middle man, show me the receipt (with your personal data like cc info omitted), and I will give you a nice token of appreciation in game. But again it's nothing players can't earn just by playing, and in fact is rather meager compared to actually gaming for it. I guess that's why no one has taken me up on that offer yet. I just thought it might be a nice way to do something positive in the real world with our gaming interests. Absolutely no player has to donate to my server, and doing so does not give them any advantage over any other players.

That being said, there is no reason a group of players can't share the expense of hosting a PW. This can be done in many ways (like sharing monthly rotational hosting costs, ect...) I fully support players being able to share the burden of hosting costs. But again this is not what we are talking about. We are talking (or at least I am) about people having to pay to play, influence, or win. And even more so, the root of the discussion was the future of MMO, and what I thought would be an amazing development in gaming (aka the concepts I discussed above), and could be a real boon to the developer that had the foresight, and gonads or ovaries to see the potential in it.

Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 14 août 2012 - 01:31 .

[MagicalMaster]

Pstemarie wrote...

Having worked with this engine for 10 years and seeing what myself and others have done with the core engine, I beg to differ. True, large parts of the engine are hard-coded, but numerous CC authors have found routes around those limitations. To sit back and ignore the amount of content that has been made for this game is preposterous. The PRC alone adds dozens of classes, spells, and feats. CEP and Project Q added hundreds of creatures, portraits, placeables, etc.

How would you add an attack animation for a melee feat beyond the standard auto-attacks?

How would you show the time remaining on a buff or debuff?

How would you show stacks of a buff or debuff?

How would you show a targeted grid for AoE spells?

I've mainly scripted stuff and adjusted some hak files -- if you know how to do any of those that would be amazing.

Pstemarie wrote...

As for the AI "issue" you mention, it is a simple fix requiring a handful of lines that has been implemented by myself and many others.

So you have a way that if a player is fighting two mobs, call them A and B, that if the player switches from attacking A to attacking B he won't wait 1 to 6 seconds until attacking again?

I'm guessing you're running a pseudo-heartbeat on the player every second, storing a string of his current target, and if his current target suddenly changes to a new string, then redetermine combat round or something?  What about if there are multiple mobs of the same name/tag?

[MagicalMaster]

Lazarus Magni wrote...

Ok... 15$ a month over 8 years is 1440$. To play a game you likely payed over 100$ already (with expansions) to purchase initially. I have played nwn 1 for over 9 years, and have only donated something like 20 $ to a server once in that time. From a players perspective, the whole WOW p2p thing is, as I stated at the top, a scam.

I don't agree that it's a scam.  For starters, I get a mini expansion every few months that's paid for by the subscription.  I also get to store my characters on their central server and log in from any computer.  I generally play a minimum of 32 hours a month, so that's $0.44 an hour (I only pay $14 per month).  If I played, say, an average of 3 hours a day (which many people do), that's 84 hours a month divided by 15 hours = $0.18 an hour.

Hell, if I paid $10 for a new book and read it in 4 hours, I'd be paying $2.50 an hour for that.  If anything, only paying $20 in nine years is a "scam."

Lazarus Magni wrote...

That being said, there is no reason a group of players can't share the expense of hosting a PW. This can be done in many ways (like sharing monthly rotational hosting costs, ect...) I fully support players being able to share the burden of hosting costs. But again this is not what we are talking about. We are talking (or at least I am) about people having to pay to play, influence, or win. And even more so, the root of the discussion was the future of MMO, and what I thought would be an amazing development in gaming (aka the concepts I discussed above), and could be a real boon to the developer that had the foresight, and gonads or ovaries to see the potential in it.

Wasn't your whole point earlier about how the developments could get a bunch of money from hosting the servers?  Who's paying?  Only the developers?  The players?  A mix?  Because *someone* would have to, right?

[henesua]

Pointless argument. NWN despite the hardcoded limitations is a viable option for a hobbyist to create a multiplayer RPG still to this day.

Its fun.

Building your own RPG from scratch by yourself, not so easy. And for many not as fun.

[Lazarus Magni]

MagicalMaster wrote...

Lazarus Magni wrote...

Ok... 15$ a month over 8 years is 1440$. To play a game you likely payed over 100$ already (with expansions) to purchase initially. I have played nwn 1 for over 9 years, and have only donated something like 20 $ to a server once in that time. From a players perspective, the whole WOW p2p thing is, as I stated at the top, a scam.

I don't agree that it's a scam. For starters, I get a mini expansion every few months that's paid for by the subscription. I also get to store my characters on their central server and log in from any computer. I generally play a minimum of 32 hours a month, so that's $0.44 an hour (I only pay $14 per month). If I played, say, an average of 3 hours a day (which many people do), that's 84 hours a month divided by 15 hours = $0.18 an hour.

Hell, if I paid $10 for a new book and read it in 4 hours, I'd be paying $2.50 an hour for that. If anything, only paying $20 in nine years is a "scam."

Lazarus Magni wrote...

That being said, there is no reason a group of players can't share the expense of hosting a PW. This can be done in many ways (like sharing monthly rotational hosting costs, ect...) I fully support players being able to share the burden of hosting costs. But again this is not what we are talking about. We are talking (or at least I am) about people having to pay to play, influence, or win. And even more so, the root of the discussion was the future of MMO, and what I thought would be an amazing development in gaming (aka the concepts I discussed above), and could be a real boon to the developer that had the foresight, and gonads or ovaries to see the potential in it.

Wasn't your whole point earlier about how the developments could get a bunch of money from hosting the servers? Who's paying? Only the developers? The players? A mix? Because *someone* would have to, right?

You have a remarkable way of putting words in other peoples mouths, or trying to represent the perspectives of others you have no right to do so...

Let me break this down for you...

MagicalMaster wrote...

Lazarus Magni wrote...

Ok... 15$ a month over 8 years is 1440$. To play a game you likely payed over 100$ already (with expansions) to purchase initially. I have played nwn 1 for over 9 years, and have only donated something like 20 $ to a server once in that time. From a players perspective, the whole WOW p2p thing is, as I stated at the top, a scam.

I don't agree that it's a scam.  For starters, I get a mini expansion every few months that's paid for by the subscription.  I also get to store my characters on their central server and log in from any computer.  I generally play a minimum of 32 hours a month, so that's $0.44 an hour (I only pay $14 per month).  If I played, say, an average of 3 hours a day (which many people do), that's 84 hours a month divided by 15 hours = $0.18 an hour.

Hell, if I paid $10 for a new book and read it in 4 hours, I'd be paying $2.50 an hour for that.  If anything, only paying $20 in nine years is a "scam."

LOL spoken like a true WOWer... who do you get your pay check from? What is your point here? Paying 1.5k $ is totally worth it compared to just paying 100 as a player? I am not seeing the validity of this argument... It is a total scam, in fact the biggest scam in gaming... the only really messed up thing is why the majority of gamers buy into it... I guess most people are sheep...

MagicalMaster wrote...

Lazarus Magni wrote...

That being said, there is no reason a group of players can't share the expense of hosting a PW. This can be done in many ways (like sharing monthly rotational hosting costs, ect...) I fully support players being able to share the burden of hosting costs. But again this is not what we are talking about. We are talking (or at least I am) about people having to pay to play, influence, or win. And even more so, the root of the discussion was the future of MMO, and what I thought would be an amazing development in gaming (aka the concepts I discussed above), and could be a real boon to the developer that had the foresight, and gonads or ovaries to see the potential in it.

Wasn't your whole point earlier about how the developments could get a bunch of money from hosting the servers? Who's paying? Only the developers? The players? A mix? Because *someone* would have to, right?

My whole point was the fact that if a game developer actually offered a multipayer game to players akin to NWN 1 in the current day, and provided a hosting service to support it, not only would it be free to play for players (after buying the game as it should be), but the game developer would continue to make money off it there by giving the incentive to continuing to suport it even after a decade. Couple that with an open source game like nwn 1 (AKA the potential for gamer to mod it into anything they like), and  multiplayer platform, with continual (I mean over a decade long) original (aka bioware, or whoever) incentive to support it, and yeah... you could have one amazing game... 

Modifié par Lazarus Magni, 14 août 2012 - 09:05 .

[Pstemarie]

MagicalMaster wrote...

How would you add an attack animation for a melee feat beyond the standard auto-attacks?

How would you show the time remaining on a buff or debuff?

How would you show stacks of a buff or debuff?

How would you show a targeted grid for AoE spells?

I've mainly scripted stuff and adjusted some hak files -- if you know how to do any of those that would be amazing.

Pstemarie wrote...

As for the AI "issue" you mention, it is a simple fix requiring a handful of lines that has been implemented by myself and many others.

So you have a way that if a player is fighting two mobs, call them A and B, that if the player switches from attacking A to attacking B he won't wait 1 to 6 seconds until attacking again?

I'm guessing you're running a pseudo-heartbeat on the player every second, storing a string of his current target, and if his current target suddenly changes to a new string, then redetermine combat round or something?  What about if there are multiple mobs of the same name/tag?

The ACP adds an entire framework of new combat animations. Project Q uses the OnPlayerChat event to switch the animation model to run. NwnE used custom feats. What is required is making new animation supers - which Ragnarok_Mr4 did - and adding new feats (and feat-linked spells) to implement as you suggest.

You would use a pseudo-heartbeat to capture the time the buff was added, its duration, then send a chat message to the user of the buff every round to count off how many rounds are left before the buff expires.

To show stacks you could probably rig something in the spellscript that applies the buff. Everytime a buff stacks with an existing buff you send a message to the PC.

Not sure on the targeted grid. It would at least require custom VFX for each AOE size/shape and linking it to the targeting cursor.

Now for the counter...

Just what are you trying to emulate here anyway? NWN was designed to be a close approximation of the pnp D&D 3.0 rules. Under no circumstances in a well-run (my opinion of such anyway) pnp D&D will a PC know the exact duration of a variable duration spell. Nor will they be tracking the duration of a spell in the heat of combat - too many other things to worry about.

Stacking is generally covered in the spellscripts. If you need to know what stacks with what read the spell description to see what kind of modifier is being applied, then check the rules to see what that modifier types that modifier stacks with.

Why in gods name would you need a grid? OH WAIT - you're trying to maximize AOE spell efficiency 

Suggestion...stick with WoW, sounds like you prefer it to NWN, and let us fossils wallow in the tar with our beloved game...

Modifié par Pstemarie, 14 août 2012 - 02:28 .

[_six]

Well I can sympathize with criticism of NWN's core combat gameplay. Sure you can make statistical tweaks or edit the specifics of abilities, but the structure itself is rigid. As is much of the interface, which is perhaps a bigger problem (lack of any display of the range or AoE of spells, for one - something which much older games have managed to do effectively). Though that said when it comes to combat in games I'm more into the actiony side. Perhaps not coincidentally I think the combat system that has developed over time in the Mass Effect series (specifically 2 and 3) is much more fun for example, to use an example that might be familiar to folks here. I'm not sure I'd agree WoW is better implemented than NWN, as both seem to fail in what the other succeeds at to me.

Even so, I much prefer NWN modules that focus on puzzles, story, dynamic conversations etc rather than combat - unless they have something really special. And that's something no MMO I've yet seen has pulled off. I find combat that is formatted more as a puzzle than a test of the player's stats, for instance with highly scripted boss encounters, much more interesting. And plenty of NWN's modders in the past have proven more than ept enough to create their own unique takes on it, particular in some of the best single player modules. Key word: unique, even within the same engine.

Regardless, until someone comes up with a game of the same easy moddability yet depth as NWN in a similar genre we don't have much room to maneuver for this type of content creation.

Modifié par _six, 14 août 2012 - 03:32 .