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[dragonflight288]

Xilizhra wrote...

My memory
may be fuzzy, but is that in the lore? I don't recall any situation
where mages have magically erased anyone's memories. Even the tranquil
remember their past lives. They just don't have any emotions to tie to
them.

Danarius did so to Fenris.

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

My memory may be fuzzy, but is that in the lore? I don't recall any situation where mages have magically erased anyone's memories. Even the tranquil remember their past lives. They just don't have any emotions to tie to them.

Danarius did so to Fenris.

And he does it again if you give him back. The apparent costliness of the proceduce makes me inclined to think it's not a common thing, and the memories can return as Fenris shows, but yes, it can be done.

Okay. I thought that was simply the pain of the procedure.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Okay. I thought that was simply the pain of the procedure.

Fenris is currently the only case we know of regarding deliberately induced amnesia, which admittedly isn't much to go on. For all we know a mage doesn't have to be involved; they might just need lyrium. Or a hitherto unmentioned drug. Chances are it'll never be explained.

[Dave of Canada]

Keep the Circle system, keep the Templar, keep the Tranquil and everything from the current system. The system itself is good, it's just suffering from poor management when it comes to cases like Elthina and Meredith. Ferelden's Circle proves the ideal tower, protecting it's mages and factoring risk-management with liberties (depending on the mage's obedience).

However, small liberties could go create a stronger Circle and provide the Chantry with far more influence.

• Replace Justinia V, she's controversial and isn't helping anyone with her mage sympathies. Both Fiona and Lambert hate her and most of the Chantry's Grand Clerics disprove of her, any middle path she wishes to achieve cannot occur with her in the position.
• Allowing fortified villages to be constructed surrounding the Circles could increase fortifications should the worst-case occur and allow Templar and Mage families (if they are willing) to move in to be closer to their relatives, these families would work for their lodgings and provide the Circle an alternate mode of income. Similar to Finn, mage-relatives can visit on occasion and give gifts and support.
• A Council of Seekers positioned in each Circle, supervising the Tower and doing nothing influencing either the Enchanters or the Templar. Should abuse of either side appear, they convene and deal with it or report it to the Grand Cleric of the nation.

The Harrowing being supervised by other senior mages doesn't really do much of anything, if they had to intervene then how will the mage defend themselves later when demons try their hand again? They couldn't necessairly re-create the Harrowing.

And Denarius probably used blood magic to wipe away one's memories, mind control and manipulation seems to be blood magic's thing.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 15 août 2012 - 07:52 .

[dragonflight288]

Dave of Canada wrote....

Replace Justinia V, she's controversial and isn't helping anyone with her mage sympathies. Both Fiona and Lambert hate her and most of the Chantry's Grand Clerics disprove of her, any middle path she wishes to achieve cannot occur with her in the position.

We could end up with a Divine who would be willing to call an Exalted March on her own cathedral as a result of a peaceful protest. She may not be popular, but she is looking for peaceful solutions.

Allowing fortified villages to be constructed surrounding the Circles could increase fortifications should the worst-case occur and allow Templar and Mage families (if they are willing) to move in to be closer to their relatives, these families would work for their lodgings and provide the Circle an alternate mode of income. Similar to Finn, mage-relatives can visit on occasion and give gifts and support.

I have no problem with visits, but that would require changing the current templar practices, and the current batch of templars as a whole have no desire to do that. After all, they believe they have divine right over mages (and since templars didn't exist during the time of Andraste, you won't find that in the Chant of Light. You won't even find templars in it.)

A Council of Seekers positioned in each Circle, supervising the Tower and doing nothing influencing either the Enchanters or the Templar. Should abuse of either side appear, they convene and deal with it or report it to the Grand Cleric of the nation.

And what safeguards would be made to prevent cases like Lambert? Lambert was the Lord High Seeker, yet he was more focused on being a templar than investigating them...which is his actual job. The Seekers are supposed to investigate the templars, not emulate them.

[MisterJB]

The Seekers are supposed to act when templars fail. This means policing the templars for signs of corruption or wickedness but also the mages.
Lambert was investigating the murders happening in the White Spire as was his duty and, if you will recall, only mages were being targeted. Hadn't Adrian decided to murder Parhamond to incite a rebellion, Lambert wouldn't have done anything wrong. He was right, there was a demon murdering the mages.

[dragonflight288]

MisterJB wrote...

The Seekers are supposed to act when templars fail. This means policing the templars for signs of corruption or wickedness but also the mages.
Lambert was investigating the murders happening in the White Spire as was his duty and, if you will recall, only mages were being targeted. Hadn't Adrian decided to murder Parhamond to incite a rebellion, Lambert wouldn't have done anything wrong. He was right, there was a demon murdering the mages.

Lambert was doing his duty, but he was also going beyond it. A lot of what he did was completely unnecessary. And yes, there was a demon, but his prime suspect wouldn't have been given a fair opportunity to defend himself.

He even ordered the First Enchanters to go back to their circles when the Assembly they were gathered at was perfectly legal and the Divine authorized it as well. I don't care if he's trying to investigate a murdering demon, those mages did have their rights and duties that the Divine allowed them to have, and he was taking those away, or trying to.

EDIT: Almost fell into a trap to debate when I myself set this thread up to be positive. crap. I did fall into it.


Let's see.....how to add onto this. If the mages and the templars remain independent of the Chantry entirely, then whoever watches the templars must also be outside Chantry control. And that group must watch ONLY templars. Let the templars fight abominations and maleficarum. This other group will focus strictly on templars abuse of power or overuse of authority. The Chantry shouldn't be involved with any of the groups.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 17 août 2012 - 07:16 .