38 réponses à ce sujet

[ozenglish]

I have used Morrigan, PC, Shale and Zev.. nice party, Zevran only got all goody two shoes once. But the best dialogue ensues with this group. There was even a three way conversation and I nearly wet myself laughing. Seriously, this has to be the best combo for entertainment, and the ability to do crap without anyone losing massive respect for you. Also makes the poisoning of the ashes a lot easier too.

[ozenglish]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

People seriously need to strike the word "evil" out of their vocabulary if they think Shale, Oghren or Sten are "evil".
Shale is a golem who hates organics. Oghren is a warrior / berserker and a decadent piece of work.
Sten is a practical and pragmatic soldier.

There is no "evil" here (or anywhere I might add).

The only evil I have seen of late, is people at christmas time and their cursed shopping habits. I work retail.

Shale is nowhere near evil, just as you said, logical. Sten for a better word is misunderstood by the group, and well, Morrigan isn't evil, just a lot like my gf, which is why she is pretty much always in my party.

[Time4Tiddy]

Sten is most definitely not evil - he just values strength and discipline over all. There is no reason why he would feel guilt or want to seek atonement after killing the farm family. Personally I think it would be interesting to harden Leliana ASAP and then try taking her through an "evil" run to see how her reactions change.



One of these playthroughs I'm going to create a Malificar myself and play through all the most selfish and power-driven choices. You're correct that there is little benefit to playing as a traditional "Chaotic Evil" - but there is certainly a way to play this game as a totally self-absorbed power hungry sort of neutral.



BTW, I'm kind of annoyed that there is a Blood Mage amulet, Blood Mage ring, and Blood Mage robes, but between all three other specs there is only one Arcane Warrior sword. I would love some gear for the other mage specs as well.

[mtmj]

Morrigan does seem like a likely companion for a Maleficar; but do you really need two mages? Especially on Nightmare, AoE spells just results in a dead party and there's nothing fun with spamming Blizzard, Thunder and Force Field.


I rather have Shale, Oghren and Zevran with my main character providing heals and spells.

Modifié par mtmj, 22 décembre 2009 - 10:22 .

[mtmj]

Dasim4 wrote...

Hard to be evil in this game. At least for me it was. I tried but didn't like the results. Everyone shuts you off and you lose out on a lot of stuff. Less XP, fewer quests, vendors won't sell to you. And you can't even kill the random people in towns or anything. It just felt empty really. Also a lot of the dialogue choices result in getting the same answers I got when I was good even though I said something pretty rotten. That didn't feel right either. I just couldn't get into being evil in this game as there didn't seem to be enough real options for it. Basically there was no fun in it.

Hence, why I use the term "Palpatine Evil", because evil in Bioware games usually consists of acting like a jerk, killing someone over $5 (while you have millions) and butchering randoms.

Modifié par mtmj, 22 décembre 2009 - 10:29 .

[ozenglish]

mtmj wrote...

Dasim4 wrote...

Hard to be evil in this game. At least for me it was. I tried but didn't like the results. Everyone shuts you off and you lose out on a lot of stuff. Less XP, fewer quests, vendors won't sell to you. And you can't even kill the random people in towns or anything. It just felt empty really. Also a lot of the dialogue choices result in getting the same answers I got when I was good even though I said something pretty rotten. That didn't feel right either. I just couldn't get into being evil in this game as there didn't seem to be enough real options for it. Basically there was no fun in it.

Hence, why I use the term "Palpatine Evil", because evil in Bioware games consists of millionaires killing a peasant for 5 copper and butchering random people on the street.
True, if you are a jerk than you lose out on a lot of quests.  Hence you just have to act nice or neutral sometimes

I think Bioware does a good job on the definition of evil. It is more Defiling relics, and killing Connor after knocking out his mother were the two most evil things this game has had so far. Playing the dwarf commoner, so for me, getting into a thuggish mindset was how I decided to play this run. The only part that irritates me is you can't kill your irritating drunken mother. The word Evil is not a good term to use in real life or gaming for that matter, as it is open to varied interpretation. According to most western beliefs, I am evil for living with my commonlaw out of wedlock. Yet some places, that is standard, and having more than one spouse is fine.

Using the term Chaotic has always been my standard for Characters who choose methods outside of the ordinary. So Unlawful Chaotic would be the worst of the Chaotic classes, *feels he is old man rambling again. stops reply*

[Vicious]

Shale - Not evil, but amoral. It's not that she doesn't care, just that shale has become all logic and only wants to see the most efficient route. E.g., why stop to talk with werewolves when you're just a few steps from annihalating them? Why not side with cultists and gain power, as opposed to going against them and gain NO power?

This. Shale also approves of recruiting Loghain. In her words "Turn an enemy into an ally? Ingenious!"

[menasure]

there are certainly options for evil choices but eventually it's just hard to give it a place in the more rigid do-gooder main story, you will be percieved to support Alistair as king at first for example so it's only frustrating to not expect that. the best way to try is playing from a cloak and dagger kind of perspective where you see those other characters as convenient puppets for your plans after you defeat the blight.

since the good-hypocrite alignment is mainly attached to the humans it also helps to play one of the other races, preferably from an origin full of misery for your character because it helps to give you motives.

[Herr Uhl]

ozenglish wrote...

I think Bioware does a good job on the definition of evil. It is more Defiling relics, and killing Connor after knocking out his mother were the two most evil things this game has had so far.

No, sacrificing Isolde for demon-sex is the most mustache-twirling evil you get in the game.

[mtmj]

menasure wrote...

there are certainly options for evil choices but eventually it's just hard to give it a place in the more rigid do-gooder main story, you will be percieved to support Alistair as king at first for example so it's only frustrating to not expect that. the best way to try is playing from a cloak and dagger kind of perspective where you see those other characters as convenient puppets for your plans after you defeat the blight.
since the good-hypocrite alignment is mainly attached to the humans it also helps to play one of the other races, preferably from an origin full of misery for your character because it helps to give you motives.

True.
As a human noble, I did side with Loghain because I wanted to become King-Consort, marry Anora and retain a valuable General.


But as an Elf I thought the most appropirate selection was Alistar.  Anora and Loghain are both respectively abled administrators and tacticians.  Alistar on the other hand, whiny / annoying and obsessed with Duncan, no doubt if he were King he would soon drive the nobles mad and the country to civil war

Modifié par mtmj, 22 décembre 2009 - 11:37 .

[Vaern Sul]

Oh, there's much option to play the "mustache-twirling" evil in DAO :

-Dooming Connor after sacrificing her mother.

-Having left the werewolves curse, kill the once cursed humans (As a powerhreedy racist blood mage elf, I jumped in joy when I saw this option).

-Destroying the ashes and then lie to Genitivi (He commits suicide after the epilogue).

[Grommash94]

Hardening Leliana sorta makes her more neutral than good, imo.

[ozenglish]

Herr Uhl wrote...

ozenglish wrote...

I think Bioware does a good job on the definition of evil. It is more Defiling relics, and killing Connor after knocking out his mother were the two most evil things this game has had so far.

No, sacrificing Isolde for demon-sex is the most mustache-twirling evil you get in the game.

Those poor fade demon girls, they are just totally misunderstood young ladies looking for a good time. Why not show them some love. look at the bods!!!

Totally agree with that lol.

[Mikka-chan]

In terms of 'what pisses them off and what doesn't', Zev I found is actually one of the easiest companions in game to keep happy. He doesn't like the idea of slaughtering the Dalish and is rather forward about that- but you talk him in to it without taking a single approval penalty. It actually seems hard to lose approval with him in ways that aren't direct conversation- while most others will have plummeting approval depending on your actions, he usually didn't get really upset unless I prodded him or insulted him.



Sten, on the other hand, has his own morality which... is very much his own. (What would you expect?) He doesn't like you siding with the Dragon Cult, he objects to working with two Dwarf Leaders at once, and he disapproves of siding with Branka... but he also doesn't want to, say, save Redcliffe or search for missing smith daughters.



It's pretty obvious that Wynne, Alistair, and Lelianna are 'good'- the later two can sort of drop to neutral if hardened, but they still seem more 'let's help people! ' then not even then. 'Evil', though, is a bit more difficult. Morrigan disapproves of basically anything the first three approve of but I'm not exactly sure I'd call her evil. Oghran disapproves almost anytime you let someone live when you have the option of killing them, but I'm not sure that makes him evil, either. Shale likes killing, but tends to prefer 'practical' to crazy. Sten's morals just don't fit justly on a DnD alignment block, and Zev is just an odd duck. Personally, though, I'd probably do an 'evil' party as Morg, Shale, Oghran, and Rogue PC, but putting in Zev and using a Mage PC works fine, too.