319 réponses à ce sujet

[Wayning_Star]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Yeah... but it would still mean a billion years of galactic history as "yo dawg..."

I find idiocy on such a scale very hard to take. Like "upping my fluoxetin dose" hard. I guess most people just ignore stuff like that. I wish I could.

well, life in general is all just a head canon.. but I still, really Liked the "yo dawg".. totally out ragious!!

[3DandBeyond]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Yeah... but it would still mean a billion years of galactic history as "yo dawg..."

I find idiocy on such a scale very hard to take. Like "upping my fluoxetin dose" hard. I guess most people just ignore stuff like that. I wish I could.

Oh believe me I understand and agree.  But since many of us believe the kid slipped his programming and is for want of a better term "crazy", I don't think having the game eventually agree with that would ultimately be a worse thing than what we now have.  I would have much preferred we would have been allowed to see the game admit he's bonkers all along (if we had to have him which we apparently did).

I mean I'd rather not have the kid at all, but he exists.  Since he's there, it would have been best to say he's crazy.  Since the game doesn't do that and it just shows him as crazy, I'd actually appreciate it if there was an end that admitted he was crazy, and that he developed a warped idea of what he was supposed to do.

I'm saying the game ignores his idiocy.  In the Leviathan text it's again pointed out that he was programmed to find peace between organics and synthetics.  He creates war.  His creators may have also had a misunderstanding and by creating him set things in motion which became even crazier.  If the game admits this ultimately then I could live with that.

Again conjecture.

I imagine one final bit of DLC where it's clear and Shepard can say so, that the kid is "crazy" or a warped little AI that isn't following his programming and whose programming did have horrid flaws.  And in my OP scenario, I see Synthesis as the extension of his craziness-his warped view of inevitability which would be refused.  I then see Control as also being the example of him.  It could be turned into an expose of how he became crazy (no machines aren't crazy, but that's the easiest thing to say).  It might become very obvious that if Shepard chooses it, Shepard will suffer from the same things that made the kid think the reapers were a good idea.  The kid went crazy and so will Shepard as reaper controller.  That would make Control an unwise choice.  At that point refusing them leaves only Destroy available to use the Crucible.  It is intact, it can discriminate and it will target reapers only.  But all the dialogue options and the state of the Crucible would at least in part be based on EMS and your Shepard.  Shepard could still die from the Crucible blast.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 12 août 2012 - 08:25 .

[3DandBeyond]

MattFini wrote...

If each DLC adds a little more context to the ending then I wish BioWare had just said so at the very beginning.

Because this would be a VERY ambitious undertaking - and I would've been happy to take more of a "wait and see" stance back in March, rather than watching that piece of crap ending in disbelief.

I do agree.  I do think they did point to some things though and they thought they were being obvious.  They weren't.  They really needed to talk to people about it.

They did say a long time back that people did need to keep their game saves because they had something awesome planned.  The problem with this is they've lost so much credibility that it isn't believed. 

[inko1nsiderate]

3DandBeyond wrote...


They did say a long time back that people did need to keep their game saves because they had something awesome planned.  The problem with this is they've lost so much credibility that it isn't believed. 

This tweet you refer to, the new ending in the EC, and the changed dialogue of the Catalyst with Leviathan are reasons why I think some future change to the ME3 endings is at least plausible.

[Jadebaby]

Baronesa wrote...

Also... Check the polls about the endings... so far Destroy is the most popular, adding to it won't change it... and despite all the rage and disdain shown... Reject is the second most popular ending, leaving Control and Synthesis almost at a tie.

can you provide the source for this data?

[Applepie_Svk]

3DandBeyond wrote...

MattFini wrote...

If each DLC adds a little more context to the ending then I wish BioWare had just said so at the very beginning.

Because this would be a VERY ambitious undertaking - and I would've been happy to take more of a "wait and see" stance back in March, rather than watching that piece of crap ending in disbelief.

I do agree.  I do think they did point to some things though and they thought they were being obvious.  They weren't.  They really needed to talk to people about it.

They did say a long time back that people did need to keep their game saves because they had something awesome planned.  The problem with this is they've lost so much credibility that it isn't believed. 

I don´t like plans which looks like blackmail to customer...

[3DandBeyond]

inko1nsiderate wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...


They did say a long time back that people did need to keep their game saves because they had something awesome planned.  The problem with this is they've lost so much credibility that it isn't believed. 

This tweet you refer to, the new ending in the EC, and the changed dialogue of the Catalyst with Leviathan are reasons why I think some future change to the ME3 endings is at least plausible.

Yes, agreed.  I remain, perhaps stupidly so, optimistic always.  I am because I want it to be.  So, I could see them leading us to some real outcome where Destroy works correctly.  It may be a hint to that in the refusal ending.  That fate could be Shepard's galaxy's fate if the Crucible is intact and Destroy works.  Right now it isn't.

One other thing they might decide to add, if they were leading to this and they were smart, is one final free DLC.  What I mean is, if they were ever going to release a new ME4 game where Shepard is mentioned and that was based on the "universe" of ME that came before, they would need one ending eventually to be canon.  Not that decisions or characters would carry over, but they couldn't have 4 different realities for any ME4 sequel to ME3.  That would mean they'd have to actually almost write 4 completely different games when they weren't made to be dependent on choices in ME from before.  It would matter though what kind of galaxy it was if it exists in the Milky Way.  And it would have to be one that would make sense to anyone that played ME3.

So, they could decide to release some final piece of free DLC that makes one ending work "right", so that the reapers are gone (or reapers would exist in ME4) and the galaxy is free of their intervention.  And a reaper free galaxy would be a much simpler one to work with since some new foe would have to enter in and if reapers exist they could just be sent to get rid of the problem.

Leviathan already started making Synthesis less worthy as a choice-if you read the text that exists.  I'm not talking about the merits of any one choice at this point.  It's just how workable a choice would be for future sequel content.

I'm not talking about some huge free DLC giveaway, but I'm talking about DLC that would merely add EMS and Catalyst dialogue that would make it clear one choice is THE choice, like a patch.  That would make it more likely people would buy a future game set after the events of ME3.

I am only stating opinion of course and nothing that's likely to happen but am offering one possible way it could work.

I think Destroy is the natural thing because it is constantly said in the game as the only way to win.  It was just purposely made rather crazy in order for it to not be the canon ending.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 12 août 2012 - 09:20 .

[3DandBeyond]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

MattFini wrote...

If each DLC adds a little more context to the ending then I wish BioWare had just said so at the very beginning.

Because this would be a VERY ambitious undertaking - and I would've been happy to take more of a "wait and see" stance back in March, rather than watching that piece of crap ending in disbelief.

I do agree.  I do think they did point to some things though and they thought they were being obvious.  They weren't.  They really needed to talk to people about it.

They did say a long time back that people did need to keep their game saves because they had something awesome planned.  The problem with this is they've lost so much credibility that it isn't believed. 

I don´t like plans which looks like blackmail to customer...

Well, I can see why you'd think that.  Personally, I do think they could really have had fun with this game.  I mean if they had released the game and said it was part of a bigger story that would lead to eventual answers about the reapers and new ways would open up that might help defeat them.

The problem is they got really pissed off at the original leaked script and the From Ashes debacle that they just kind of shut down and didn't try to help themselves out of a mess.  That made it worse.

Yes, some fans were real idiots too.  But even idiots wanted to like ME3 and the endings.

[Wayning_Star]

3DandBeyond wrote...

inko1nsiderate wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...


They did say a long time back that people did need to keep their game saves because they had something awesome planned.  The problem with this is they've lost so much credibility that it isn't believed. 

This tweet you refer to, the new ending in the EC, and the changed dialogue of the Catalyst with Leviathan are reasons why I think some future change to the ME3 endings is at least plausible.

Yes, agreed.  I remain, perhaps stupidly so, optimistic always.  I am because I want it to be.  So, I could see them leading us to some real outcome where Destroy works correctly.  It may be a hint to that in the refusal ending.  That fate could be Shepard's galaxy's fate if the Crucible is intact and Destroy works.  Right now it isn't.

One other thing they might decide to add, if they were leading to this and they were smart, is one final free DLC.  What I mean is, if they were ever going to release a new ME4 game where Shepard is mentioned and that was based on the "universe" of ME that came before, they would need one ending eventually to be canon.  Not that decisions or characters would carry over, but they couldn't have 4 different realities for any ME4 sequel to ME3.  That would mean they'd have to actually almost write 4 completely different games when they weren't made to be dependent on choices in ME from before.  It would matter though what kind of galaxy it was if it exists in the Milky Way.  And it would have to be one that would make sense to anyone that played ME3.

So, they could decide to release some final piece of free DLC that makes one ending work "right", so that the reapers are gone (or reapers would exist in ME4) and the galaxy is free of their intervention.  And a reaper free galaxy would be a much simpler one to work with since some new foe would have to enter in and if reapers exist they could just be sent to get rid of the problem.

Leviathan already started making Synthesis less worthy as a choice-if you read the text that exists.  I'm not talking about the merits of any one choice at this point.  It's just how workable a choice would be for future sequel content.

I'm not talking about some huge free DLC giveaway, but I'm talking about DLC that would merely add EMS and Catalyst dialogue that would make it clear one choice is THE choice, like a patch.  That would make it more likely people would buy a future game set after the events of ME3.

I am only stating opinion of course and nothing that's likely to happen but am offering one possible way it could work.

I think Destroy is the natural thing because it is constantly said in the game as the only way to win.  It was just purposely made rather crazy in order for it to not be the canon ending.

imho, the destroy option is a cop out, in respect to the overall gist of the game, but that's just me, probably. I look at it as an easy 'power trip', similar to what many blame the catalyst. It has all the chess pieces, but cannot actually play, ends up checkers. The direct approach is just too simplistic in a complicated story, and the basic fact that the cycle was created by the destroy consideration. If you think about it, that is all there is to existence, build and destroy...well, maybe not.. there may be other options growing down deep in the old black matter, er dark matter..

crap, now I've confused myself..what's up with that?!?

[3DandBeyond]

Wayning_Star wrote...

imho, the destroy option is a cop out, in respect to the overall gist of the game, but that's just me, probably. I look at it as an easy 'power trip', similar to what many blame the catalyst. It has all the chess pieces, but cannot actually play, ends up checkers. The direct approach is just too simplistic in a complicated story, and the basic fact that the cycle was created by the destroy consideration. If you think about it, that is all there is to existence, build and destroy...well, maybe not.. there may be other options growing down deep in the old black matter, er dark matter..

crap, now I've confused myself..what's up with that?!?

Well, we have what we have-that's what people are fond of saying when anyone complains.  I say the Crucible and kid are the real cop out for the whole ball of wax.

I prefer simplistic to just plain fantasy in a game that had it's own created reality.  I hear it said all the time that people thought a boss fight was too simplistic and video gamey.  Well, so what did we get?  A boss conversation.  Cool.

[RebelTitan428]

i have no plans of ever buying mass effect 4, so if DLC is used to make it possible then i guess this is the end of the line for me...

[Baronesa]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

Also... Check the polls about the endings... so far Destroy is the most popular, adding to it won't change it... and despite all the rage and disdain shown... Reject is the second most popular ending, leaving Control and Synthesis almost at a tie.

can you provide the source for this data?

Sadly I can't find the poll right now. I remember both Control and Synthesis were locked at 10%, Refuse was hovering between 14 and 16% and all the rest of the votes were to Destroy.

I'll keep looking for that poll, but maybe someone else remembers it or have a link ready.

Modifié par Baronesa, 12 août 2012 - 09:44 .

[AresKeith]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

imho, the destroy option is a cop out, in respect to the overall gist of the game, but that's just me, probably. I look at it as an easy 'power trip', similar to what many blame the catalyst. It has all the chess pieces, but cannot actually play, ends up checkers. The direct approach is just too simplistic in a complicated story, and the basic fact that the cycle was created by the destroy consideration. If you think about it, that is all there is to existence, build and destroy...well, maybe not.. there may be other options growing down deep in the old black matter, er dark matter..

crap, now I've confused myself..what's up with that?!?

Well, we have what we have-that's what people are fond of saying when anyone complains.  I say the Crucible and kid are the real cop out for the whole ball of wax.

I prefer simplistic to just plain fantasy in a game that had it's own created reality.  I hear it said all the time that people thought a boss fight was too simplistic and video gamey.  Well, so what did we get?  A boss conversation.  Cool.

The last 10 min went from Sci-fi to Science Fantasy, they should just made Crucible a weapon that can weaken the Reapers enough for a Giant Strike

[Grub Killer8016]

I'd be more than happy if I got a Refusal Victory ending.

[Wayning_Star]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

imho, the destroy option is a cop out, in respect to the overall gist of the game, but that's just me, probably. I look at it as an easy 'power trip', similar to what many blame the catalyst. It has all the chess pieces, but cannot actually play, ends up checkers. The direct approach is just too simplistic in a complicated story, and the basic fact that the cycle was created by the destroy consideration. If you think about it, that is all there is to existence, build and destroy...well, maybe not.. there may be other options growing down deep in the old black matter, er dark matter..

crap, now I've confused myself..what's up with that?!?

Well, we have what we have-that's what people are fond of saying when anyone complains.  I say the Crucible and kid are the real cop out for the whole ball of wax.

I prefer simplistic to just plain fantasy in a game that had it's own created reality.  I hear it said all the time that people thought a boss fight was too simplistic and video gamey.  Well, so what did we get?  A boss conversation.  Cool.

I'm more in the mind of go with the flow, when it came down to the endgame. But..the whole time playing figured on a behind the scenes ultra antagonist protatgonist... I guess we'll have to slap a 'Caution: Wet Paint' sign on video games that try'n encompass so many ideas'n player conceptuals for the aforementioned end game and storyline choices.

Maybe the Leviathan will spray on some activator and help dry those tears out in user land.. ;]

[3DandBeyond]

RebelTitan428 wrote...

i have no plans of ever buying mass effect 4, so if DLC is used to make it possible then i guess this is the end of the line for me...

And I don't blame you.  I know many people feel that way.

I do think they missed out on a lot of opportunities here (read-money), by creating endings that did not logically address the myriad feelings of people promised widely varied endings.  Personally, I don't see one ending as being sacrificial-I see sacrificial as working toward some beneficial thing.  I don't see one endings as poignant, because I see poignant as being the conflicting emotions of good being done in the face of hard choices, but real choices.  The bittersweet.  I see plenty of bitter because 2 of the endings consider reliance on reaper tech and reaper everything as a great way to save the galaxy from the reapers.  I see them as the denial of self-reliance and self-determination.  They are the death of a certain kind of life and they make the value of life afterward very questionable. 

I see Destroy as it is as an affirmation of victory at any cost-no cost is too high.  It's deciding some races are more valuable.  Any time you divide life or death along racial lines you are doing just that.  That means no one is safe.  There's a saying the ends, "and then they came for me" and it's applicable as to how people would think.  If any one race is expendable then they all are.  In the face of this, the Krogan might see the need to actually rise up to protect themselves, because they've been there before.  The Rachni, too.

So, I do not see any ending as happy either of course.  I don't think they are uplifting as would befit the ending of this story.  I don't think they did justice to Shepard so there's no way to be happy there.  And without any sort of minor happier ending, I can't see anything as a win.  I didn't want bunnies and unicorns because no matter what the galaxy is still a mess, but I wanted a win and a possible Shepard lives ending.  BW should have foreseen that.

[ediskrad327]

why are people so eager to have their choices made even more pointless?

[3DandBeyond]

Grub Killer8016 wrote...

I'd be more than happy if I got a Refusal Victory ending.

 

Well me too.  I just think that would require more actual fighting and cutscenes and all on their part.  I would like this best of all, but even saying that opens up a real crap storm from others because it involves something they believe is impossible.

[3DandBeyond]

ediskrad327 wrote...

why are people so eager to have their choices made even more pointless?

I want one choice made more valid because the others suck in my opinion and because it appears in Leviathan text they are backing away from Synthesis, closing it off as any possible good choice.  I certainly don't see any way for synthesis or control to ever be meaningful at all anyway, so as it is they are already pointless.  Can't get worse than that.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 12 août 2012 - 10:07 .

[Grub Killer8016]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Grub Killer8016 wrote...

I'd be more than happy if I got a Refusal Victory ending.

 

Well me too.  I just think that would require more actual fighting and cutscenes and all on their part.  I would like this best of all, but even saying that opens up a real crap storm from others because it involves something they believe is impossible.

Yes, but they forget one thing. Shepard has a built a career on doing the impossible: he went to Illos, used the Omega 4 Relay, and met the Catalyst. I think he can find a way.

[ediskrad327]

3DandBeyond wrote...

ediskrad327 wrote...

why are people so eager to have their choices made even more pointless?

I want one choice made more valid because the others suck in my opinion and because it appears in Leviathan text they are backing away from Synthesis, closing it off as any possible good choice.  I certainly don't see any way for synthesis or control to ever be meaningful at all anyway, so as it is they are already pointless.  Can't get worse than that.

yeah but we don't need a canon and we don't need a ME4

[3DandBeyond]

ediskrad327 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

ediskrad327 wrote...

why are people so eager to have their choices made even more pointless?

I want one choice made more valid because the others suck in my opinion and because it appears in Leviathan text they are backing away from Synthesis, closing it off as any possible good choice.  I certainly don't see any way for synthesis or control to ever be meaningful at all anyway, so as it is they are already pointless.  Can't get worse than that.

yeah but we don't need a canon and we don't need a ME4

Well that's your opinion and that's fine.  I personally wouldn't buy ME4 if this is never "fixed" and yeah it probably won't be.  I'd guess you don't like the endings as they are either.  So, I'm thinking you aren't going to even buy DLC from the sound of it.  That means none of this matters to you.  And I'm not intending to buy it either unless it does at some point work to fix this ending.  I'm still at the point though where I want to like ME3 so I can like ME again and want to play it again.  If it makes me interested in an ME4 that would be great as well.  ME games were my favorites of all time but ME3's ending ruined that-the same for others. 

As yet no other dev has come out with games to match this, where choices were meant to matter and decisions carried over.  People point to the Witcher 2, but that's not for me.  You can't create your own avatar in the game as in ME and I've always dreamt of space and scifi-my favorite genre.  ME was the kind of game I'd waited about 30 years for, so until it's over, it's not over.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 12 août 2012 - 11:07 .

[Mavqt]

Good idea.

I always found it odd that the starbrat said the Crucible wasn't 'complete'.

[3DandBeyond]

mavqt wrote...

Good idea.

I always found it odd that the starbrat said the Crucible wasn't 'complete'.

Yes, I thought so too since Liara says the Protheans hadn't completed it because it needed the Catalyst.  I wondered what it needed ot be finished. 

[knightnblu]

Interestingly, BioWare has stated that EDI survives the Destroy ending. If EDI can survive the destroy ending then why can't the Geth? I choose destroy because I believe the starbrat to be an insane AI and insanity does not equal trust. In other words he lies about all the options and their effects. Both Anderson and Hacket said that the Reapers needed to die and they have certainly earned their end.

Personally, I am happy to die if it means that I get to take them with me because it is such a small sacrifice. As for the destruction of the Geth and EDI, how do you know you weren't lied to? How do you know that Control wouldn't allow the Catalyst to control you ultimately? Better to blow them all to hell in my opinion. It is the only sure bet.