319 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

knightnblu wrote...

Interestingly, BioWare has stated that EDI survives the Destroy ending. If EDI can survive the destroy ending then why can't the Geth? I choose destroy because I believe the starbrat to be an insane AI and insanity does not equal trust. In other words he lies about all the options and their effects. Both Anderson and Hacket said that the Reapers needed to die and they have certainly earned their end.

Personally, I am happy to die if it means that I get to take them with me because it is such a small sacrifice. As for the destruction of the Geth and EDI, how do you know you weren't lied to? How do you know that Control wouldn't allow the Catalyst to control you ultimately? Better to blow them all to hell in my opinion. It is the only sure bet.

That's interesting since her name is up on the Memorial Wall.

[Ace-Hood]

What I think we ride on Levithian saying "MUSH" and give the reapers a taste of their own medicine and show the star brat whos boss

Modifié par Ace-Hood, 12 août 2012 - 11:27 .

[3DandBeyond]

Grub Killer8016 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Grub Killer8016 wrote...

I'd be more than happy if I got a Refusal Victory ending.

 

Well me too.  I just think that would require more actual fighting and cutscenes and all on their part.  I would like this best of all, but even saying that opens up a real crap storm from others because it involves something they believe is impossible.

Yes, but they forget one thing. Shepard has a built a career on doing the impossible: he went to Illos, used the Omega 4 Relay, and met the Catalyst. I think he can find a way.

I agree.  Shepard found all kinds of data on the reapers that was ignored for ME3 and then there were even time capsules from a different cycle on another planet colonized by humans that everyone ignored.  James at the point where he and Shepard spar says he was on a mission to get data on the collectors, that he saved.  So exactly NO ONE did anything about any data ever. 

Hackett sent Shepard to help Dr. Kenson in the Arrival and Shepard brings back data on reapers and NO ONE did anything about it.  And then Hackett in his wisdom couldn't think of any way to get Shepard off the hook for the Batarian deaths.  What did he do-he must have told everyone, "Yeah, Shepard killed them all." Instead, he could have put the blame on the dead Doctor and her team and said Shepard went in and found out what the scientists were doing, tried to warn the Batarians and stop the asteroid but couldn't do it.  Then Shepard could have helped find a way to defeat the reapers.  Instead Hackett left Shepard in detention and it was Anderson that got him/her out.

I don't see much hope for anything to fix what has been done, but think they could still do something.

[3DandBeyond]

Ace-Hood wrote...

What I think we ride on Levithian saying "MUSH" and give the reapers a taste of their own medicine and show the star brat whos boss

Well I do wish they could make a bunch of Leviathans that will kill the reapers but then this sounds too much like advancing Krogan to kill Rachni.

[3DandBeyond]

magnetite wrote...

How do you know that Control wouldn't allow the Catalyst to control you ultimately?

Game files confirm it. Control is a bad choice:

Priceless.

What do the other choices say?

I could see assuming control and then telling them all to smash into each other or the sun, but then what would Shepard reaper commander do after that?  I think control sounds ominous and leaves open the door for Shreaper's programming to go haywire like the kid's.

[3DandBeyond]

magnetite wrote...

Not sure about Synthesis, but just ask Saren. He was indoctrinated. Saren was all about synthesis and the evolution of organic life.

Yeah, that's basically why I think they initially intended to make Destroy the more "canon" ending, but knew it was a problem if so obvious.  They kept hitting you over the head with the idea that anything else was garbage.  But they had to make sure there was no canon choice so they made destroy pretty awful.

Yes and from the start Synthesis always was a non-choice in my opinion.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 12 août 2012 - 11:48 .

[Mavqt]

3DandBeyond wrote...

magnetite wrote...

How do you know that Control wouldn't allow the Catalyst to control you ultimately?

Game files confirm it. Control is a bad choice:

*End choice bad, snipped*:happy:

Priceless.

What do the other choices say?

I could see assuming control and then telling them all to smash into each other or the sun, but then what would Shepard reaper commander do after that?  I think control sounds ominous and leaves open the door for Shreaper's programming to go haywire like the kid's.

Exactly the reason I have and will never pick control.
Never picked synthesis because, it's galaxy wide genocide and well, I never liked the idea anyway.
Refuse is just stupid, also never picked, although it would be nice to see the loosing battle.
Destroy is the lesser of the evils and completes my goal from ME1.

This is just my opinion.

And Before anyone goes, "Lolwhat, synthesis isn't genocide", go wikipedia.

Modifié par mavqt, 12 août 2012 - 11:52 .

[3DandBeyond]

mavqt wrote...

Exactly the reason I have and will never pick control.
Never picked synthesis because, it's galaxy wide genocide and well, I never liked the idea anyway.
Refuse is just stupid, also never picked, although it would be nice to see the loosing battle.
Destroy is the lesser of the evils and completes my goal from ME1.

This is just my opinion.

And Before anyone goes, "Lolwhat, synthesis isn't genocide", go wikipedia.

Well the problem for me is I see killing EDI and the geth as genocide as well.  I see the choices as godhood, forced eugenics, and genocide.  Refuse is suicide.  So much fun in one little game.

[3DandBeyond]

magnetite wrote...

EDI was uploaded into that body when you got back from Palaven which is when you first encountered her inside the body. She also speaks after you leave Earth. Therefore, EDI is a software program, not synthetic life form.

There was a mission where if you bring her to the Geth Dreadnaught that when she speaks, her lips don't move, but you can still hear her. I remember a line where she said something about her primarily existing within the ship, not inside the body.

Yes I agree she does say that she is in the ship.  It's just that BW put her name on the wall and then they show her along with Legion and Mordin (the only other deaths before ME3's ending in my game), when Hackett talks about those who won't be forgotten.

The other problem is with how glow boy describes destroy.  It's a mess.  He says synthetics and not synthetic life.  It will target all synthetics and Shepard is part synthetic-well darned if I know what that means for any other person with synthetic parts or even Shepard.  The kid says all tech you rely on will be damaged but easily repaired-that's nice.  And he says there will be losses but no more than have already occurred.  Ok, uh, what?  So will the geth die?  I don't know.  Will EDI die?  I don't know-BW seems to think so, but i don't know.  And what about the torso-is it some ghoulish headless thing that somehow is still alive or what?  I don't know.

I've played it on my xbox, ps3, and on youtube repeatedly and I still have no idea what it means ultimately other than it should kill the reapers.  And EDI should be in a blue box as should the kid AI perhaps-so if EDI lives on, then so should he.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 13 août 2012 - 12:32 .

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

Destroy requires the highest EMS to get the "breath" ending. Since this is a game where the points conceptually are supposed to matter, I assume that this is the equivalent of "winning."

The good news is that some fan game is being developed based off of a Destroy ending.

http://www.complex.c...game-discovered

I resent having to head canon my ending in Destroy. But the way I rationalize the "breath" ending is that everything between when Shepard shoots the tube and the breath takes place in Shepard's mind as Shepard imagines what would happen based on the Star Brat's lie that the Catalyst kills the Geth and EDI in addition to the Reapers. I just assume that the little Brat was trying to dissuade Shepard from choosing Destroy. Thus, the Geth and EDI survive as does Shepard. He imagines that his LI and friends wouldn't count him out while he lies unconscious under the rubble pile. He imagines the silly Stargazer. Then he wakes up. THE END.

Bad ending, but we already knew that.

Also, I don't have to reconcile DLC content unless it shows Shepard alive in the end, since I won't be buying it if that isn't the case.

Modifié par PuppiesOfDeath2, 13 août 2012 - 05:14 .

[3DandBeyond]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

Destroy requires the highest EMS to get the "breath" ending. Since this is a game where the points conceptually are supposed to matter, I assume that this is the equivalent of "winning."

The good news is that some fan game is being developed based off of a Destroy ending.

http://www.complex.c...game-discovered

I resent having to head canon my ending in Destroy. But the way I rationalize the "breath" ending is that everything between when Shepard shoots the tube and the breath takes place in Shepard's mind as Shepard imagines what would happen based on the Star Brat's lie that the Catalyst kills the Geth and EDI in addition to the Reapers. I just assume that the little Brat was trying to dissuade Shepard from choosing Destroy. Thus, the Geth and EDI survive as does Shepard. He imagines that his LI and friends wouldn't count him out while he lies unconscious under the rubble pile. He imagines the silly Stargazer. Then he wakes up. THE END.

Bad ending, but we already knew that.

Also, I don't have to reconcile DLC content unless it shows Shepard alive in the end, since I won't be buying it if that isn't the case.

Yes, I do understand.  It just remains my hope that the "more logical" (and by that I mean the one Shepard was always trying to do) choice would be a functioning destroy.  That would be one that also means there's a way for victory with Shepard and all surviving.  And not a head canon one.  My point is DLC that leads to this.

My hope is for it to become clear that destroy is what the crucible was meant to do (it makes sense if Leviathan or someone else created it) and that the other choices are there just because the kid is asserting his will.  If he becomes completely broken by a completely finished crucible then his choices become less valid. 

Destroy would be the path to victory and with a finished crucible it would not kill indiscriminately-not EDI, not the geth, not Shepard.  If you look at the Leviathan text it's like the devs are already making Synthesis a worse choice.  They could easily do this for Control too.  And that would make Destroy way more valid.  Higher EMS earned through DLC (or the need for higher EMS based on DLC programming) to finish the crucible, could make this happen.

I'm saying new DLC might allow more EMS to be applied to finish the crucible and make it work as it should.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

3DandBeyond wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

Destroy requires the highest EMS to get the "breath" ending. Since this is a game where the points conceptually are supposed to matter, I assume that this is the equivalent of "winning."

The good news is that some fan game is being developed based off of a Destroy ending.

http://www.complex.c...game-discovered

I resent having to head canon my ending in Destroy. But the way I rationalize the "breath" ending is that everything between when Shepard shoots the tube and the breath takes place in Shepard's mind as Shepard imagines what would happen based on the Star Brat's lie that the Catalyst kills the Geth and EDI in addition to the Reapers. I just assume that the little Brat was trying to dissuade Shepard from choosing Destroy. Thus, the Geth and EDI survive as does Shepard. He imagines that his LI and friends wouldn't count him out while he lies unconscious under the rubble pile. He imagines the silly Stargazer. Then he wakes up. THE END.

Bad ending, but we already knew that.

Also, I don't have to reconcile DLC content unless it shows Shepard alive in the end, since I won't be buying it if that isn't the case.

Yes, I do understand.  It just remains my hope that the "more logical" (and by that I mean the one Shepard was always trying to do) choice would be a functioning destroy.  That would be one that also means there's a way for victory with Shepard and all surviving.  And not a head canon one.  My point is DLC that leads to this.

My hope is for it to become clear that destroy is what the crucible was meant to do (it makes sense if Leviathan or someone else created it) and that the other choices are there just because the kid is asserting his will.  If he becomes completely broken by a completely finished crucible then his choices become less valid. 

Destroy would be the path to victory and with a finished crucible it would not kill indiscriminately-not EDI, not the geth, not Shepard.  If you look at the Leviathan text it's like the devs are already making Synthesis a worse choice.  They could easily do this for Control too.  And that would make Destroy way more valid.  Higher EMS earned through DLC (or the need for higher EMS based on DLC programming) to finish the crucible, could make this happen.

I'm saying new DLC might allow more EMS to be applied to finish the crucible and make it work as it should.

I agree that a thoughtful DLC could address this issue.  I just hope that someone there realizes the value of doing it.  I believe it is the best business and artistic decision Bioware could make.

[LilLino]

I don't agree that DLC will do anything in destroy, if anything, destroy will kill Leviathan too.
I also think that the fact that it doesn't destroy all of our technology is more unrealistic than the fact it doesn't discriminate. If they ever make sequel and want Shep&Geth in it, I'm sure they're gonna come up with some explanation. Like them being restarted, rebuilt, reborn. Whatever.

It'd be nice to have a perfect ending but I don't see it happening, it's just not what Bioware wants and it's their game. ;f

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

LilLino wrote...

I don't agree that DLC will do anything in destroy, if anything, destroy will kill Leviathan too.
I also think that the fact that it doesn't destroy all of our technology is more unrealistic than the fact it doesn't discriminate. If they ever make sequel and want Shep&Geth in it, I'm sure they're gonna come up with some explanation. Like them being restarted, rebuilt, reborn. Whatever.

It'd be nice to have a perfect ending but I don't see it happening, it's just not what Bioware wants and it's their game. ;f

If you accept the premise that the Crucible was created to be a Reaper-destroying energy amplifier, then it's easy to see it as capable of discriminating in its effect.  Reapers are filled with the goo of processed organics.  No big leap to see the Crucible destroying just synthetics filled with goo.  EDI and the Geth aren't goo filled; so they aren't killed.  Full stop.

It is true that "it's their game," although Bioware didn't market the game this way.  In fact, I would suggest that the ending was concealed from players/customers, even in the Collector's Edition Player Guide, which says "Shepard lives" in the Destroy ending.  Unlike other kinds of products, gaming requires dozens of hours of a player's time before you get to the ending.  Unlike a bad hamburger joint or termite riddled lumber, you can't see the flaws in the product until you have made a large investment of yourself into the game.  So the strong negative reaction by the majority of fans isn't surprising.  I say "a majority" based solely on my own unscientific polling.  I have gone to four different retailers and just asked the sales staff what their customers thought of Mass Effect 3.  Everytime and without any encouragement, they said that the endings were terrible and that this was the view of the large majority of their customers, particularly those who had pre-ordered the game. 

This is why I say that it is both good business and good art for Bioware to try to do something to continue their universe, which is great, in a way that is satisfying to their most loyal customers.

I believe that my head canon interpretation of Destroy is consistent with the game's content and is a fair extrapolation from the sequencing of images in the Destroy ending.  But, as I said, I resent the fact that head canon is required.

Modifié par PuppiesOfDeath2, 13 août 2012 - 09:06 .

[3DandBeyond]

LilLino wrote...

I don't agree that DLC will do anything in destroy, if anything, destroy will kill Leviathan too.
I also think that the fact that it doesn't destroy all of our technology is more unrealistic than the fact it doesn't discriminate. If they ever make sequel and want Shep&Geth in it, I'm sure they're gonna come up with some explanation. Like them being restarted, rebuilt, reborn. Whatever.

It'd be nice to have a perfect ending but I don't see it happening, it's just not what Bioware wants and it's their game. ;f

If Leviathan is organic and one of the creatures of the same race as the kid's creators, it's possible that wouldn't happen-but he might be willing to die.  But, even if he is one of the machines that the creators made and that the kid used to make into reapers, then it's possible he might have decided (like Javik) that he only wants the reapers dead and his synthetic race at peace even if that includes him. 

Destroy could be made to target reaper signatures.  Tell me why destroy only targets and destroys synthetics (life or other tech as well?) and not all tech.  Why doesn't it destroy relays?  Just as the IFF recognizes reaper signatures to go through the relays, why couldn't something similar be used to destroy only reapers.

And it would be impossible to create the geth as they or EDI.  Their destruction means their experiences were destroyed and that is a great part of what creates personality and character.  You can't replicate it simply by re-starting them. 

We have no idea where Bioware has decided or will decide to go from here.  Yes, it's their game, and they may not want to make any more after it.  But if they do, they'd need to base it off of one ending.  And I don't see any future game having Shepard in it.  I am talking about the story world that any new ME would have to exist in.  They can't have 4 versions of that world.  One with people with green eyes where reapers are running around.  Another where reapers are the police and are flying around and people are scared to death.  Another where no synthetics exist and tech is iffy.  And another with a whole different race of beings way in the future.

It is a curious thing that the crucible is not finished even though Liara says the only reason it wasn't was because it needed the catalyst.  Future DLC could even totally change him, but so far in Leviathan text he seems to be getting nastier.  Maybe with final DLC he will be Harbinger and try to force Shepard to pick Synthesis.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

I always thought they would make next some kind of prequel. Otherwise, there really is no obvious way to deal with the divergent ending problem. I agree that Shepard won't likely be a part of later installments. But it seems to me that makes it easier to have him live in the Destroy ending. If you're making a prequel, it doesn't have to be about Shepard. If you're making a sequel, you can bring Shepard from the rubble with DLC. Even if he is an old warrior figure that just gets referenced or consulted in a future installment, that would be pretty cool.

[ThaDPG]

DWH1982 wrote...

Ehhh, to be honest, I'm not sure I want to see a reject victory possible.

Ever since ME1, a big point has been how hard it is to stop the Reapers. Yeah, a small one was brought down by a thresher (which, as cool as it was, maybe wasn't the best idea for the game), but a more regular sized Reaper needed several shots from the combined quarian fleet to go down. During the battle for Earth, the fleets of the galaxy are facing at least hundreds of those things.

To me, a reject victory doesn't make a lot of sense. I hate the endings as they stand, but I always figured, starting with ME1, that we'd eventually need a super weapon of some sort. All I want is to be able to use that super weapon to kill the Reapers, without undoing everything I've done with EDI and the geth.

Isn't Shepard's cycle the first one to actually stand totally united against the reapers though?  I would think that would make some kind of difference conventionally speaking

[3DandBeyond]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

I always thought they would make next some kind of prequel. Otherwise, there really is no obvious way to deal with the divergent ending problem. I agree that Shepard won't likely be a part of later installments. But it seems to me that makes it easier to have him live in the Destroy ending. If you're making a prequel, it doesn't have to be about Shepard. If you're making a sequel, you can bring Shepard from the rubble with DLC. Even if he is an old warrior figure that just gets referenced or consulted in a future installment, that would be pretty cool.

Actually, that's exactly what I would like to see.  Sometime later in the future.  Shepard is referenced or even old is fine.  They have talked about prequels or DLC that would be either before or during current events, but prequel stories are limiting.

If they could make an ME3 ending that gets rid of the reapers, allows for a way to get a real win and a way to get Shepard alive, I think it could work for a future ME4, but would have to be logical.  I just really would like a chance to tell the kid off and win.

[3DandBeyond]

ThaDPG wrote...

DWH1982 wrote...

Ehhh, to be honest, I'm not sure I want to see a reject victory possible.

Ever since ME1, a big point has been how hard it is to stop the Reapers. Yeah, a small one was brought down by a thresher (which, as cool as it was, maybe wasn't the best idea for the game), but a more regular sized Reaper needed several shots from the combined quarian fleet to go down. During the battle for Earth, the fleets of the galaxy are facing at least hundreds of those things.

To me, a reject victory doesn't make a lot of sense. I hate the endings as they stand, but I always figured, starting with ME1, that we'd eventually need a super weapon of some sort. All I want is to be able to use that super weapon to kill the Reapers, without undoing everything I've done with EDI and the geth.

Isn't Shepard's cycle the first one to actually stand totally united against the reapers though?  I would think that would make some kind of difference conventionally speaking

I would have rather reject could be used to win with unconventional means, but they've kind of shut that off by continually saying it's impossible.  If they switched that up and did win, and in the end Hackett says, "gee, I thought it was impossible" and Shepard became Admiral, I'd buy DLC for that. 

[3DandBeyond]

One other thing to think about is console developers-Sony and MS are gearing up to release new consoles. Estimates are 2013, but you know how that goes. If the date is close it's likely any future ME if it's in the works would wait for a next gen platform for consoles. Just a thought.

[LilLino]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

I always thought they would make next some kind of prequel. Otherwise, there really is no obvious way to deal with the divergent ending problem. I agree that Shepard won't likely be a part of later installments. But it seems to me that makes it easier to have him live in the Destroy ending. If you're making a prequel, it doesn't have to be about Shepard. If you're making a sequel, you can bring Shepard from the rubble with DLC. Even if he is an old warrior figure that just gets referenced or consulted in a future installment, that would be pretty cool.

That's what I'd want with cameos of some old characters and maybe dialogue/codex changes depending on your import, you know, little things for the fans. All of that can be done with current destroy ending as it is. I agree that killing Geth kills diversity, that's why they could be rebuilt somehow or some of them could survive or maybe new more interesting race could replace them..

As for what OP says. I think every race that Reapers harvest was having trouble with synthetics. So crucible would be able to solve both problems. Also, Geth&Edi are based on Reaper code and Relays are fried too. So it's highly possible it tracks anything associated with Reaper tech. I guess Geth's Reaper upgrades backfired *evil laugh*

[3DandBeyond]

LilLino wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

I always thought they would make next some kind of prequel. Otherwise, there really is no obvious way to deal with the divergent ending problem. I agree that Shepard won't likely be a part of later installments. But it seems to me that makes it easier to have him live in the Destroy ending. If you're making a prequel, it doesn't have to be about Shepard. If you're making a sequel, you can bring Shepard from the rubble with DLC. Even if he is an old warrior figure that just gets referenced or consulted in a future installment, that would be pretty cool.

That's what I'd want with cameos of some old characters and maybe dialogue/codex changes depending on your import, you know, little things for the fans. All of that can be done with current destroy ending as it is. I agree that killing Geth kills diversity, that's why they could be rebuilt somehow or some of them could survive or maybe new more interesting race could replace them..

As for what OP says. I think every race that Reapers harvest was having trouble with synthetics. So crucible would be able to solve both problems. Also, Geth&Edi are based on Reaper code and Relays are fried too. So it's highly possible it tracks anything associated with Reaper tech. I guess Geth's Reaper upgrades backfired *evil laugh*

The only problem is that in the EC if you pick Destroy it doesn't destroy the relays.  It damages all tech, but only destroys synthetics.  The kid says damaged tech can be repaired.