319 réponses à ce sujet

[comrade gando]

idk what to think. all I do know is I can't bring myself to even look at my former favorite trilogy of all time due to the 10 minutes of literary chaos that is the ending of it all. none of your choices matter, none of your war assets matter, doesn't matter how well you played, you get 3 colors pick your poison and die. or die anyway doesn't matter.

it sucks, it's contrived, it's easily one of the worst endings I've ever seen to...anything, it's a cop-out and... I don't like it. >

[Vizard355]

DWH1982 wrote...

Ehhh, to be honest, I'm not sure I want to see a reject victory possible.

Ever since ME1, a big point has been how hard it is to stop the Reapers. Yeah, a small one was brought down by a thresher (which, as cool as it was, maybe wasn't the best idea for the game), but a more regular sized Reaper needed several shots from the combined quarian fleet to go down. During the battle for Earth, the fleets of the galaxy are facing at least hundreds of those things.

To me, a reject victory doesn't make a lot of sense. I hate the endings as they stand, but I always figured, starting with ME1, that we'd eventually need a super weapon of some sort. All I want is to be able to use that super weapon to kill the Reapers, without undoing everything I've done with EDI and the geth.

The reapers on both Rannoch and Tuchanka were the same size.

[3DandBeyond]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Destroy not killing Synthetics would turn the Crucible into a true DEM.

An instant I win button, if you will.

As it is I feel like we have 3 instant lose buttons.  At some point it would have been nice to have a win button included.

No it would always be a MacGuffin.  It would just try to be a DEM.

I no longer care what it's called.  I know it's there to stay, just wish it worked.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 14 août 2012 - 01:00 .

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

3DandBeyond wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Destroy not killing Synthetics would turn the Crucible into a true DEM.

An instant I win button, if you will.

As it is I feel like we have 3 instant lose buttons.  At some point it would have been nice to have a win button included.

No it would always be a MacGuffin.  It would just try to be a DEM.

I no longer care what it's called.  I know it's there to stay, just wish it worked.

Once they chose the Crucible as the plot mechanism, the die was cast.  You could have spent the game looking for the Prothean AI who had a "virus" that had to be uploaded manually at the Citadel to kill the Reapers or something like that.  Ultimately, some device, mechanism, or power had to be unleashed to resolve the plot.  A long conventional war wouldn't do the job.

[Iakus]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Destroy not killing Synthetics would turn the Crucible into a true DEM.

An instant I win button, if you will.

Nah, Destroy would still be the ending that leaves the galaxy the worst off.

 This would be the ending where the knowledge and power of the Reapers was gone forever. In both Control and Synthesis, they're still around to help rebuild.  In Control, they're under the control of ShepReaper and are protecting the galaxy (which admittidly may or may not be a good thing) and in Synthesis, they're shiny, happy people just like everyone else, and share their knowledge with the galaxy.

Destroy, the younger races are well and truly on their own.  They have to clean up the mess themselves and find their own path in the future.  WIth the possibility of a robot uprising maybe happening again at some point.

Killing Shepard, killing EDI, killing the geth, was all pointless tragedy, compared to the uncertainty of the future.

[ShepnTali]

People that want their Shepard to suffer can still do so. Why should everybody have to be miserable because you like to be miserable?

[Chashan]

iakus wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Destroy not killing Synthetics would turn the Crucible into a true DEM.

An instant I win button, if you will.

Nah, Destroy would still be the ending that leaves the galaxy the worst off.

 This would be the ending where the knowledge and power of the Reapers was gone forever. In both Control and Synthesis, they're still around to help rebuild.  In Control, they're under the control of ShepReaper and are protecting the galaxy (which admittidly may or may not be a good thing) and in Synthesis, they're shiny, happy people just like everyone else, and share their knowledge with the galaxy.

Destroy, the younger races are well and truly on their own.  They have to clean up the mess themselves and find their own path in the future.  WIth the possibility of a robot uprising maybe happening again at some point.

Killing Shepard, killing EDI, killing the geth, was all pointless tragedy, compared to the uncertainty of the future.

This right there says it all:

Red does not invoke apotheosis as Control does, it does not offer the utopeia Synthesis does.

It gets the job done. And clearing the ruins would be an arduous task.

I do not recall anyone going bonkers that prior BW-titles do not have such pointless hostage-scenarios attached to them; played Jade Empire recently, and there one could make oneself God-Emperor if one so wished.
Did crashing that apotheosis-party on the other hand involve blowing up the entire Imperial City? It did not.

As mentioned, pointless drama is pointless.

[garrusfan1]

Okay I agree buy Shepard dies live. I want more info on what happens (like a reunion).

[3DandBeyond]

If Destroy worked "correctly" with a finished crucible that would mean in my opinion, Shepard would or could live and you could get an epilogue with a reunion.  If some alternate things are done there could still be the possibility of Shepard having to sacfice all in order for Destroy to work. 

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 14 août 2012 - 03:39 .

[3DandBeyond]

I believe sometimes simplistic is desirable, especially within a story that is so much about gut reaction and emotion and tangentially about thinking. ME wasn't about the esoteric or it might have more been told from a Hanar perspective or we might have had some Star Trek characters who expressed their language in descriptions of past events.

What we have is Military SF. In the end it's changed to Fantasy SF and the Military is just as neutered as are the reapers.

The only thing that could bring it back around is to dispel the fantasy in some way. The crucible could remain a part of it and become something real. When complete it effectively makes the kid crazier.

I think the whole idea that the kid is changed by the crucible could be seen as meaning it existed so he changed. It didn't have to mean it acted on him and made him change and then create 3 solutions. He may have changed in response to it existing and created 3 solutions since he saw the crucible was a real threat. But it isn't finished. If finished, it may be that he then does see it will offer Shepard a real "good" chance to defeat the reapers and him. Liara could have been wrong-the catalyst wasn't needed to finish the crucible and it didn't finish it, something else was needed.

And if the crucible is finished, it might just totally unhinge the kid. He might come out and show what he really is-well he's an AI, but he wants Shepard to seem him as a kid. He actually sees himself as the reapers collectively so maybe he'd show himself as that, as Harbinger and more.
Destroy could become the only logical choice, but anyone that likes the idea of the other choices could still make them.

[S.A.K]

If destroy don't kill EDI I will be very happy.

[krukow]

They can't change destroy. They were trying for three equally valid endings, only to discover that the vast majority like destroy. If they change destroy (allow EDI to live, show reunion), that would basically make one ending the "good" ending, and the one pretty much everyone chooses, so they have to leave in the consequences...

[Spirit Keeper]

It would be nice to have DLC that added to the ending. Something so it only targets the Reapers and prevent the destruction of EDI and the Geth. Still Destroy is the only I'd pick but it would be nicer to have them survive as well as Shepard

(I would still like a see a reunion of crew LI and Shepard)

[MegaSovereign]

EDI would still have to die because she was made out of Reaper tech.

As for the Geth, I guess their new Reaper upgrades could be damaged. Perhaps their intelligence reverts back to the way it was pre-ME3.

We can't just have a perfect ending because it would invalidate the other ones.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 14 août 2012 - 03:57 .

[Master Xanthan]

A Destroy ending that doesn't kill off the Geth and Edi would be awesome! Idk if Bioware would do that, though.

[3DandBeyond]

krukow wrote...

They can't change destroy. They were trying for three equally valid endings, only to discover that the vast majority like destroy. If they change destroy (allow EDI to live, show reunion), that would basically make one ending the "good" ending, and the one pretty much everyone chooses, so they have to leave in the consequences...

My point is it wouldn't happen for some time, because there are presumably at least 2 and maybe 4 DLCs that were planned.  There are 4 (IIRC) locked star systems in ME3 at the end.  One appears to be Omega.

And they could change it, it's unlikely they will, but I remain hopeful.

And I don't think that canon is always canon.  I've heard it here before.  Someone says they really only wanted a grim dark ending and they're afraid if there's a happier one then everyone would choose it and it would be canon.  There are many problems with this statement.

If you only ever want a darker ending, you aren't forced to choose anything else.  Ever.  That means a happier ending is not canon for you.  But if a happier ending is what most people would choose then most people did not get what they wanted, thus creating the "ending sucks" problem which means these people are not interested in any new BW games.

The point is this.  If you didn't want a happier or different ending, you wouldn't be forced into anything other than what you now have.  If you did want a happier of different ending, it would exist.  It does not now exist.  Right now you aren't forced to get the torso gasp scene, but you could get it.  The same would be so for anything else.

They may have no plans to create any future ME game, but the only way one could ever be created is if they create one canon ending.  The only valid place they could go for any new game is the future, because the past would be futile for a great many people (yes some would like it) and for a great many others any game would need a human face on it.  It's not arrogance, it's relatability.  People created Shepards that looked like themselves or that were what the considered beautiful and handsome.  A future ME game could have humans (Earth based, yes) in it but only if BW chose an ending for it to tail off of, not for decisions and choices because Shepard's story is done, but for the story world created.

[3DandBeyond]

MegaSovereign wrote...

EDI would still have to die because she was made out of Reaper tech.

As for the Geth, I guess their new Reaper upgrades could be damaged. Perhaps their intelligence reverts back to the way it was pre-ME3.

We can't just have a perfect ending because it would invalidate the other ones.

Well even now the other ones are somewhat invalidated as the kid sees them.  It's just that all of the choices have some big question mark attached to them.  The Leviathan text indicates the kid is even more forceful in wanting Shepard to choose Synthesis and he says things a bit differently showing he really wants Synthesis.

You wouldn't be forced to reject the other choices either if they are valid to you.  If you see some other ending as perfect, then the current choices are not that valid to you.  It would mean you don't believe in them as much as you think you do, so they are not your desired outcomes.

Again purely my opinion and not meant to insult. 

Another thing is that destroy might simply be a lot more discriminatory.  It would target reapers and not reaper tech-specifically reapers.  It might use IFF tech as reference-friend or foe info.  EDI is not a reaper.  Nor are the geth and it might "see" this.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 14 août 2012 - 04:08 .

[AresKeith]

3DandBeyond wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

EDI would still have to die because she was made out of Reaper tech.

As for the Geth, I guess their new Reaper upgrades could be damaged. Perhaps their intelligence reverts back to the way it was pre-ME3.

We can't just have a perfect ending because it would invalidate the other ones.

Well even now the other ones are somewhat invalidated as the kid sees them.  It's just that all of the choices have some big question mark attached to them.  The Leviathan text indicates the kid is even more forceful in wanting Shepard to choose Synthesis and he says things a bit differently showing he really wants Synthesis.

You wouldn't be forced to reject the other choices either if they are valid to you.  If you see some other ending as perfect, then the current choices are not that valid to you.  It would mean you don't believe in them as much as you think you do, so they are not your desired outcomes.

Again purely my opinion and not meant to insult. 

Another thing is that destroy might simply be a lot more discriminatory.  It would target reapers and not reaper tech-specifically reapers.  It might use IFF tech as reference-friend or foe info.  EDI is not a reaper.  Nor are the geth and it might "see" this.

and they did make the Reaper IFF a super big deal in ME2, but made it irrelevent in ME3

[garrusfan1]

ShepnTali wrote...

People that want their Shepard to suffer can still do so. Why should everybody have to be miserable because you like to be miserable?

Thank you I want a happy ending option that took a lot of work to get. Instead they made it depressing

[garrusfan1]

krukow wrote...

They can't change destroy. They were trying for three equally valid endings, only to discover that the vast majority like destroy. If they change destroy (allow EDI to live, show reunion), that would basically make one ending the "good" ending, and the one pretty much everyone chooses, so they have to leave in the consequences...

Why some of us wanted a reunion and since like I think it was 70% of people who choose destroy so I don't see the big deal of making it the good ending

[3DandBeyond]

There's a point to be made that it's almost impossible to make any future appealing ME game (if they ever intend to) without doing something to what now exists. A prequel is futile. A sequel would have too many endings to work off of. Logistically, it would be impossible to make another game set in the Milky Way that came after the events of ME3 (a new game) without deciding on one ending. They may not now have plans to make one, but things can change and if they ever wanted to do one they'd have to at some point create a canon ending to this. They would have to do this because they would know that there might come a time when they'd want to make another ME.

If they don't and a person always chose Synthesis, then they'd expect green eyed people and reapers in any new ME game.

It's possible they could just ignore all of this and decide to make a new one that ignores choices and the outcome of ME3, but I know for a fact that would not go over very well at all.

If they did eventually make a future ME game, they could say something in it to the effect that Shepard existed and helped to end the reaper wars. S/he saw some value in trying to control them or even create synthesis but eventually determined destroying them was what s/he was ordered to do and had always wanted to do. The reapers were gone and Shepard did become a living (or dead based on things in game) legend and the galaxy went through hard times but rebuilt. And so on.

As it stands they also have a large group of "hurt" and unhappy fans.  And I don't truly think they like that.  They surely must have known that some would want a happier ending and yet it doesn't really exist.  I believe they have loved ME too and Shepard.  I find it hard to believe they thought this was the way to end it.

They've also repeatedly said to save you save games and have said they have big plans. 


I go back to Mac Walters saying the galaxy would be a wasteland.  And maybe that was the case because the Crucible is not finished.  Refuse could be showing what could happen if it was finished.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 14 août 2012 - 04:33 .

[Tenten_Tenten]

3DandBeyond wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

EDI would still have to die because she was made out of Reaper tech.

As for the Geth, I guess their new Reaper upgrades could be damaged. Perhaps their intelligence reverts back to the way it was pre-ME3.

We can't just have a perfect ending because it would invalidate the other ones.

Well even now the other ones are somewhat invalidated as the kid sees them.  It's just that all of the choices have some big question mark attached to them.  The Leviathan text indicates the kid is even more forceful in wanting Shepard to choose Synthesis and he says things a bit differently showing he really wants Synthesis.

You wouldn't be forced to reject the other choices either if they are valid to you.  If you see some other ending as perfect, then the current choices are not that valid to you.  It would mean you don't believe in them as much as you think you do, so they are not your desired outcomes.

Again purely my opinion and not meant to insult. 

Another thing is that destroy might simply be a lot more discriminatory.  It would target reapers and not reaper tech-specifically reapers.  It might use IFF tech as reference-friend or foe info.  EDI is not a reaper.  Nor are the geth and it might "see" this.

Bolded part I think is very important. EDI is NOT a reaper. She may have reaper tech in her, but why exactly is this considered instantly fatal with regard to the crucible?

'Tech' is not a very descriptive term. It could mean anything of reaper design at all. She is not a reaper, and therefore lacks a lot of reaper 'tech' that the crucible could be targetting. This is only made more obvious by the fact that the crucible can be used to selectively control all reapers, excluding EDI and the geth. That means there is some way to just target reapers.

Not to mention - wasn't EDI partially made from the Luna VI? She isn't entirely reaper tech based.

[Jamie9]

DLC has already been used to make Destroy better.

[MegaSovereign]

garrusfan1 wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

People that want their Shepard to suffer can still do so. Why should everybody have to be miserable because you like to be miserable?

Thank you I want a happy ending option that took a lot of work to get. Instead they made it depressing

I didn't find any of the high EMS endings to be depressing.