319 réponses à ce sujet

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

Wu the Lotus Blossom wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

No. You want to kill the Reapers? Deal with the consequences.

The thing is we don't all have the same idea about what those consequences should be.

Exactly. 

I argue that the entire trilogy is written from Shepard's point of view.  Even when he is being revived by Cerberus in ME2, the images and muffled sounds are from Shepard's mind and perception.  Taking that premise, we have zero information regarding what the galaxy really looks like after Shepard wakes up in the rock pile--because the game ends at that moment.  His last previous conscious moment was the moment he shot the tube.

[MegaSovereign]

3DandBeyond wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

They're not going to make premium DLC required to unlock the "best" ending.

That would cause a giant ****storm, bigger than the Day One DLC fiasco.

Considering that there are a lot of fans willing to shell out money merely for reunion DLC (and I could be one of them), then nothing's off the table as far as fans are concerned.

I don't see too many people here concerned that there are people that couldn't even get the EC DLC for whatever reason (no internet or what have you).

But you also missed the part where I stated that after awhile, once all DLC had been released they could release a free DLC that merely changes what the kid says and takes into account your EMS to complete the crucible and then adds on the new destroy epilogue.  It wouldn't be as full as the other DLC because the other DLC is story related content-you pay for the story and get the extra tidbits that add to the end.

BSN is not really representative of what the fanbase wants. For example, when it was rumored that Leviathan would majorly change the endings most of BSN was jumping for joy. However, the comment sections of places like eurogamer and IGN raised a ****storm over having to buy premium DLC to get the best ending.

If it's free then by all means. However I feel like sneaking in a "fixed" destroy ending in the Leviathan DLC would be unethical.

Also, there are plenty of people (IMO sane people) who would not pay for DLC exclusively about reunions/LI romances.

[clennon8]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

Wu the Lotus Blossom wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

No. You want to kill the Reapers? Deal with the consequences.

The thing is we don't all have the same idea about what those consequences should be.

Exactly. 

I argue that the entire trilogy is written from Shepard's point of view.  Even when he is being revived by Cerberus in ME2, the images and muffled sounds are from Shepard's mind and perception.  Taking that premise, we have zero information regarding what the galaxy really looks like after Shepard wakes up in the rock pile--because the game ends at that moment.  His last previous conscious moment was the moment he shot the tube.

Um, well, what about the Joker sequence in ME2?

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Wu the Lotus Blossom wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

No. You want to kill the Reapers? Deal with the consequences.

The thing is we don't all have the same idea about what those consequences should be.

>mfw people think that how a story is written is up to a democratic process between the fans.

Different endings should have different consequences.  Especially when player choice is supposed to be a factor in teh game.  "Choice and consequences", remember?

But for Shepard, the consequences are the same no matter which color is picked, and regardless of choices made in the game (barring a single easter egg in one ending):  death.  That's as far from a "democracy" as you can get.  That's DM Fiat.

I didn't import a game from ME1 on just to have everything I did end with "...and then Shepard was beaten to death with a plot hammer.  The end.!"

If DLC, even paid dlc, can provide just one ending that expands on that one easter egg, that could well salvage the game for me.

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

If it's free then by all means. However I feel like sneaking in a "fixed" destroy ending in the Leviathan DLC would be unethical.

Also, there are plenty of people (IMO sane people) who would not pay for DLC exclusively about reunions/LI romances.

Who said anything about exclusive reunion DLC?  IMO, that could be fixed with a few seconds of screen time.  voicework wouldn't even be needed.

But added to somethng like Omega?  Or some other eagerly anticipated  DLC?  Maybe not the best thing they could do.  But hey, they'vce already been vilified for screwed up endings.  Caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.

Besides which, "best ending" is subjective.  Some people are perfectly happy to let Shepard fry.  More power to them, I ssay, they have plenty of colors options to choose from

[MegaSovereign]

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Wu the Lotus Blossom wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

No. You want to kill the Reapers? Deal with the consequences.

The thing is we don't all have the same idea about what those consequences should be.

>mfw people think that how a story is written is up to a democratic process between the fans.

Different endings should have different consequences.  Especially when player choice is supposed to be a factor in teh game.  "Choice and consequences", remember?

But for Shepard, the consequences are the same no matter which color is picked, and regardless of choices made in the game (barring a single easter egg in one ending):  death.  That's as far from a "democracy" as you can get.  That's DM Fiat.

I didn't import a game from ME1 on just to have everything I did end with "...and then Shepard was beaten to death with a plot hammer.  The end.!"

If DLC, even paid dlc, can provide just one ending that expands on that one easter egg, that could well salvage the game for me.

There are multiple consequences for each ending. The death of Shepard is only one of those consequences, and even then it's not part of the high EMS destroy ending.

If you want to believe Shepard dies in the destroy ending, go head. Personally I don't think Bioware's original intention with that scene was to punish players who had very high EMS. All the hints with the memorial scene and the uplifting/hopeful music added before the breath point to Shepard being alive.

A reunion scene is not needed to confirm that Shepard is still kicking. That's ridiculous.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 14 août 2012 - 06:24 .

[Wu the Lotus Blossom]

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Wu the Lotus Blossom wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

No. You want to kill the Reapers? Deal with the consequences.

The thing is we don't all have the same idea about what those consequences should be.

>mfw people think that how a story is written is up to a democratic process between the fans.

Different endings should have different consequences.  Especially when player choice is supposed to be a factor in teh game.  "Choice and consequences", remember?

But for Shepard, the consequences are the same no matter which color is picked, and regardless of choices made in the game (barring a single easter egg in one ending):  death.  That's as far from a "democracy" as you can get.  That's DM Fiat.

I didn't import a game from ME1 on just to have everything I did end with "...and then Shepard was beaten to death with a plot hammer.  The end.!"

If DLC, even paid dlc, can provide just one ending that expands on that one easter egg, that could well salvage the game for me.

Exactly, we want to see our choices reflected in how the events unfold. And if we don't see that in the conclusion of all places, then what's the point?

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

clennon8 wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

Wu the Lotus Blossom wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

No. You want to kill the Reapers? Deal with the consequences.

The thing is we don't all have the same idea about what those consequences should be.

Exactly. 

I argue that the entire trilogy is written from Shepard's point of view.  Even when he is being revived by Cerberus in ME2, the images and muffled sounds are from Shepard's mind and perception.  Taking that premise, we have zero information regarding what the galaxy really looks like after Shepard wakes up in the rock pile--because the game ends at that moment.  His last previous conscious moment was the moment he shot the tube.

Um, well, what about the Joker sequence in ME2?

That is a good observation.  But you, the player, control Joker in that sequence, of course, to save the Normandy.  So the player does "become" Joker for that short period and you actually play that character.  So that really doesn't negate my point.  The game is played from the perspective of the player's character, which is Shepard, with the brief Joker exception.

Note also that the cut scenes after choosing an option begin with what can only be fantasy in the mind of Shepard (Anderson (who is dead), LI images).

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

There are multiple consequences for each ending. The death of Shepard is only one of those consequences, and even then it's not part of the high EMS destroy ending.

If you want to believe Shepard dies in the destroy ending, go head. Personally I don't think Bioware's original intention with that scene was to punish players who had very high EMS. All the hints with the memorial scene and the uplifting/hopeful music added before the breath point to Shepard being alive.

A reunion scene is not needed to confirm that Shepard is still kicking. That's ridiculous.

Shepard's death is a universal consequence. Red.  Green.  Blue.  Yellow.  It doesn't matter what choice you make, or made in the past. 

And he still dies in High EMS Destroy.  The easter egg triggers at an EMS well beyond that.  pre-EC, it was impossible to see without MP.  And it's so ambiguous as to be near-meaningless.  Especially in comparisson to Shepard's very obvious death scenes.

And whether or not Bioware "intended" to punish players, that's exactly what they ended up doing.  "hints" and "implications" of life are cold comfort compared to very blatant and obvious death scenes.  Bioware's preference in that state of affairs is obvious

And while a reunion scene is not, as you have noted, necessary.  It is not "ridiculous" It's simply ideal.  But more is needed than a faceless torso taking a single breath.  Not after all the deaths Shepard has experienced, inflicted on his own allies, and very nearly suiffered himself.

Modifié par iakus, 14 août 2012 - 06:32 .

[3DandBeyond]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Wu the Lotus Blossom wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

No. You want to kill the Reapers? Deal with the consequences.

The thing is we don't all have the same idea about what those consequences should be.

>mfw people think that how a story is written is up to a democratic process between the fans.

No, people think that how a story is written is in concert with the story world created by the writer.  It's character's values, the known world, beliefs, and the reality within which things exist.

If ME were always a dark gritty horrific place within the story where everyone hated each other and no one laughed or did anything positive and at the end a clown was riding in on a pony and everyone started laughing and the sun came up and everyone started hugging and their guns turned into flowers, then people would complain just as loudly.

ME never took itself too seriously.  Conrad is a case in point.  Shepard dancing. Blasto.   And part of a story world is not only the environment or personalities of the characters, but there's also a way to resolve conflict.  ME used fighting and overcoming as what could happen.  ME3 uses a boss conversation.

Stories make internal promises.  The end story in a trilogy should keep those internal promises.  Fans of stories buy based on what they believe they can expect.  Fans of Harry Potter knew it was getting darker as it went on because they were told and led toward that.  ME never did that because it always showed people overcoming the odds by their deeds.  They didn't show people winning things by hoping magic falls out of the sky.  As dark as HP got, it still showed the strength of people even as just people.  Not my favorite, but just one of the best known recent series of stories.

[MegaSovereign]

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

There are multiple consequences for each ending. The death of Shepard is only one of those consequences, and even then it's not part of the high EMS destroy ending.

If you want to believe Shepard dies in the destroy ending, go head. Personally I don't think Bioware's original intention with that scene was to punish players who had very high EMS. All the hints with the memorial scene and the uplifting/hopeful music added before the breath point to Shepard being alive.

A reunion scene is not needed to confirm that Shepard is still kicking. That's ridiculous.

Shepard's death is a universal consequence. Red.  Green.  Blue.  Yellow.  It doesn't matter what choice you make, or made in the past. 

And he still dies in High EMS Destroy.  The easter egg triggers at an EMS well beyond that.  pre-EC, it was impossible to see without MP.  And it's so ambiguous as to be near-meaningless.  Especially in comparisson to Shepard's very obvious death scenes.

And whether or not Bioware "intended" to punish players, that's exactly what they ended up doing.  "hints" and "implications" of life are cold comfort compared to very blatant and obvious death scenes.  Bioware's preference in that state of affairs is obvious

And while a reunion scene is not, as you have noted, necessary.  It is not "ridiculous" It's simply ideal.  But more is needed than a faceless torso taking a single breath.  Not after all the deaths Shepard has experienced, inflicted on his own allies, and very nearly suiffered himself.

That's simply not true.

Examine the logistics of an intact (high EMS) Crucible blast. It targets software. Hence why the Normandy's hardware doesn't fry and Garrus's cybernetic face implants are still intact. 

Now observe the memorial scene, and the music that crescendos as Shepard takes his breath. The only thing Bioware could have done more to confirm that Shepard is alive was spell it out to you. Hell the file name is called "Shepard_Alive."

Bioware made a statement about wanting to reward players with the high EMS breath scene. If it was a meaningless easter egg, they wouldn't have bothered to lower the EMS requirements for those that don't want to play MP.

They didn't add in a happy reunion scene because not all Shepards would have experienced the same emotions. Some people would rather have their Shepard be emotionally scarred after sacrificing an entire race and a friend. Others would want him and his LI to go off happily into the sunset.

Shepard's journey is done. His mission is complete. What he does afterwards is irrelevant to the main conflict/conclusion of the plot. All that was needed was an epilogue showing the galaxy is going to be in good shape. And we got that with the EC.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 14 août 2012 - 06:47 .

[Wu the Lotus Blossom]

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

There are multiple consequences for each ending. The death of Shepard is only one of those consequences, and even then it's not part of the high EMS destroy ending.

If you want to believe Shepard dies in the destroy ending, go head. Personally I don't think Bioware's original intention with that scene was to punish players who had very high EMS. All the hints with the memorial scene and the uplifting/hopeful music added before the breath point to Shepard being alive.

A reunion scene is not needed to confirm that Shepard is still kicking. That's ridiculous.

Shepard's death is a universal consequence. Red.  Green.  Blue.  Yellow.  It doesn't matter what choice you make, or made in the past. 

And he still dies in High EMS Destroy.  The easter egg triggers at an EMS well beyond that.  pre-EC, it was impossible to see without MP.  And it's so ambiguous as to be near-meaningless.  Especially in comparisson to Shepard's very obvious death scenes.

And whether or not Bioware "intended" to punish players, that's exactly what they ended up doing.  "hints" and "implications" of life are cold comfort compared to very blatant and obvious death scenes.  Bioware's preference in that state of affairs is obvious

And while a reunion scene is not, as you have noted, necessary.  It is not "ridiculous" It's simply ideal.  But more is needed than a faceless torso taking a single breath.  Not after all the deaths Shepard has experienced, inflicted on his own allies, and very nearly suiffered himself.

I agree. When I saw the breath scene, I did feel sort of relieved and I did headcanon Shepard living and going on with her life. But I couldn't shake that feeling of "If this is victory, why does it feel so much like defeat?". No matter how you look at it, there isn't that much hopefulness there to hang on to. At the very best, Bioware "threw a bone" to the player at the very end. But is that victory? I honestly don't FEEL that, even if I push myself to THINK it.

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

There are multiple consequences for each ending. The death of Shepard is only one of those consequences, and even then it's not part of the high EMS destroy ending.

If you want to believe Shepard dies in the destroy ending, go head. Personally I don't think Bioware's original intention with that scene was to punish players who had very high EMS. All the hints with the memorial scene and the uplifting/hopeful music added before the breath point to Shepard being alive.

A reunion scene is not needed to confirm that Shepard is still kicking. That's ridiculous.

Shepard's death is a universal consequence. Red.  Green.  Blue.  Yellow.  It doesn't matter what choice you make, or made in the past. 

And he still dies in High EMS Destroy.  The easter egg triggers at an EMS well beyond that.  pre-EC, it was impossible to see without MP.  And it's so ambiguous as to be near-meaningless.  Especially in comparisson to Shepard's very obvious death scenes.

And whether or not Bioware "intended" to punish players, that's exactly what they ended up doing.  "hints" and "implications" of life are cold comfort compared to very blatant and obvious death scenes.  Bioware's preference in that state of affairs is obvious

And while a reunion scene is not, as you have noted, necessary.  It is not "ridiculous" It's simply ideal.  But more is needed than a faceless torso taking a single breath.  Not after all the deaths Shepard has experienced, inflicted on his own allies, and very nearly suiffered himself.

That's simply not true.

Examine the logistics of an intact (high EMS) Crucible blast. It targets software. Hence why the Normandy's hardware doesn't fry and Garrus's cybernetic face implants are still intact. 

Now observe the memorial scene, and the music that crescendos as Shepard takes his breath. The only thing Bioware could have done more to confirm that Shepard is alive was spell it out to you. Hell the file name is called "Shepard_Alive."

Bioware made a statement about wanting to reward players with the high EMS breath scene. If it was a meaningless easter egg, they wouldn't have bothered to lower the EMS requirements for those that don't want to play MP.

They didn't add in a happy reunion scene because not all Shepards would have experienced the same emotions. Some people would rather have their Shepard be emotionally scarred after sacrificing an entire race and a friend. Others would want him and his LI to go off happily into the sunset.

Shepard's journey is done. His mission is complete. What he does afterwards is irrelevant to the main conflict/conclusion of the plot.

High EMS Destroy kicks in at 2650.  Shepard still dies then.  You need 3100 EMS to survive.  Thus why many call it "Destroy+"  It's beyong High EMS Destroy.

They lowered the threshhold because people called them on lying about being able to see all content with just single player.  A pity they didn'tsee the conncection that maybe, just maybe, people were desperate for Shepard to live through the game.

And again, happy reunion, ideal, but not needed.  What's needed is a sign that Shepard living is not limited to being the CItadel's version of The Phantom of the Opera.

[3DandBeyond]

MegaSovereign wrote...

BSN is not really representative of what the fanbase wants. For example, when it was rumored that Leviathan would majorly change the endings most of BSN was jumping for joy. However, the comment sections of places like eurogamer and IGN raised a ****storm over having to buy premium DLC to get the best ending.

If it's free then by all means. However I feel like sneaking in a "fixed" destroy ending in the Leviathan DLC would be unethical.

Also, there are plenty of people (IMO sane people) who would not pay for DLC exclusively about reunions/LI romances.

So anyone that really wanted a reunion and is now willing to pay for it because they see BW as unwilling otherwise is not sane?  Nice.  This for a game that has always included something definitive that led to that conclusion.  All they want is a way to love 3 games and all kinds of other content they now have that BW ruined for them by not including something they should have been able to foresee was desired by many.  Especially with the EC-where's the closure?

Just because you don't need it does not mean you should dismiss others that say they do.  We are all different and many people can imagine things but really needed to see it as a finish for their games.  But your attitude shows you disapprove of them.  How kind.

If you don't want a "fixed" destroy ending, why would it be unethical to include pieces that would lead to it in DLC?  Why would it be any more "unethical" than everything else that has been done?

At least on BSN people that actually own ME games express what they'd like.  On twitter, IGN, Eurogamer, and everwhere else, it's unknown if the people ever even played an ME game before.  I've seen a lot of disputes created by people that don't even own a product they complain about or that they rate down-xbox and PS3 users do this quite often about exclusive games on the console they don't like.

Again, I said DLC is mostly story based as in Leviathan gives back story on the reapers that's now absent.  My opinion on that is it's a bit too late.  Backstory if needed should have existed before the game ending.  But the only way to make it relevant is if it began to add to what we have for a reason. 

I've said all along the game is unfinished.  It was released unfinished.  So, I might be upset they didn't finish it before releasing it but this is a trend in gaming where DLC is being used to finish games.  People on here didn't want us to complain about that at all-we aren't supposed to complain about games or are whiners.  So now here I am not complaining.  I'm suggesting a way to finish the game.  It also is coincidentally a way to get me to buy DLC that I have no use for now.  I'd think you'd be happy at that.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 14 août 2012 - 07:02 .

[3DandBeyond]

MegaSovereign wrote...


That's simply not true.

Examine the logistics of an intact (high EMS) Crucible blast. It targets software. Hence why the Normandy's hardware doesn't fry and Garrus's cybernetic face implants are still intact. 

Now observe the memorial scene, and the music that crescendos as Shepard takes his breath. The only thing Bioware could have done more to confirm that Shepard is alive was spell it out to you. Hell the file name is called "Shepard_Alive."

Bioware made a statement about wanting to reward players with the high EMS breath scene. If it was a meaningless easter egg, they wouldn't have bothered to lower the EMS requirements for those that don't want to play MP.

They didn't add in a happy reunion scene because not all Shepards would have experienced the same emotions. Some people would rather have their Shepard be emotionally scarred after sacrificing an entire race and a friend. Others would want him and his LI to go off happily into the sunset.

Shepard's journey is done. His mission is complete. What he does afterwards is irrelevant to the main conflict/conclusion of the plot. All that was needed was an epilogue showing the galaxy is going to be in good shape. And we got that with the EC.

The crucible is not intact-the kid says it's not finished.  I have 9000 EMS.  Want to know what else BW has said about all this.  On twitter before the EC came out, a fan asked and was told there would be a reunion scene.  Fans tried to find it and couldn't and asked again.  They were told there was one because it was implied and clearly happened.  Another BW employee (a dev) said it wasn't in there because they couldn't customize the ending for everyone.  Another one said they never realized people would want one.  Then at comic con it was asked and one BW employee said the gasp was a beacon of hope while another said it was Shepard dying.  Another BW employee (the one who said there would be a reunion) was asked on twitter why she said Shepard lived if others were now saying Shepard was dead.  She replied that she had said it was ambiguous and could be either/or.  Well, it's pretty hard to have a reunion with a dead Shepard, but ok.

ME was a character based story with Shepard as not only the hero, but the player's avatar.  Shepard's fate was always THE most important part of the story, especially when saying goodbye and thanks for all the fish.  We don't get to say goodbye face to face (the face we created).  It's unfinished and why I still hold out hope that something more is to come.  I feel that's why BW has come out with conflicting statements as to Shepard's fate.  They are trying to have fun, possibly.  Maybe not, maybe it means nothing, but it could mean something.

[MegaSovereign]

So much "win" here. So anyone that really wanted a reunion and is now willing to pay for it because they see BW as unwilling otherwise is not sane? Nice. This for a game that has always included something definitive that led to that conclusion. All they want is a way to love 3 games and all kinds of other content they now have that BW ruined for them by not including something they should have been able to foresee was desired by many. Especially with the EC-where's the closure?

So the only acceptable form of closure is a reunion scene? Yea...sure.

Just because you don't need it does not mean you should dismiss others that say they do. We are all different and many people can imagine things but really needed to see it as a finish for their games. But your attitude shows you disapprove of them. How kind.

If you don't want a "fixed" destroy ending, why would it be unethical to include pieces that would lead to it in DLC? Why would it be any more "unethical" than everything else that has been done?

You're right, it would be just as unethical. Why would they muddy up their PR image even more with premium ending(s)?

Did it ever occur to you that maybe I oppose more ending content simply because I'm tired of the SP DLC content schedule being pushed back? The EC should have been in the damn game. If it wasn't for this ending fiasco, both retake-Omega and Leviathan would have been released by now. I don't want to wait any longer for new SP content.

At least on BSN people that actually own ME games express what they'd like. On twitter, IGN, Eurogamer, and everwhere else, it's unknown if the people ever even played an ME game before. I've seen a lot of disputes created by people that don't even own a product they complain about or that they rate down-xbox and PS3 users do this quite often about exclusive games on the console they don't like.

Again, I said DLC is mostly story based as in Leviathan gives back story on the reapers that's now absent. My opinion on that is it's a bit too late. Backstory if needed should have existed before the game ending. But the only way to make it relevant is if it began to add to what we have for a reason.

Expansion of the ME lore through DLC should not be frowned upon. A lot of previous ME DLC had little to do with the main plot, even less so than Leviathan. They were still great.

I've said all along the game is unfinished. It was released unfinished. So, I might be upset they didn't finish it before releasing it but this is a trend in gaming where DLC is being used to finish games. People on here didn't want us to complain about that at all-we aren't supposed to complain about games or are whiners. So now here I am not complaining. I'm suggesting a way to finish the game. It also is coincidentally a way to get me to buy DLC that I have no use for now. I'd think you'd be happy at that.

What trend do you speak of? Most games use DLC to expand the already finished content. It's already bad enough that Bioware ripped content out of the game and sold it as Day One DLC (From Ashes), now they want me to buy 10 dollar DLC for a slightly modified Destroy ending?

Do you honestly not see how this hypothetical situation would be complete crap?

[MegaSovereign]

3DandBeyond wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...


That's simply not true.

Examine the logistics of an intact (high EMS) Crucible blast. It targets software. Hence why the Normandy's hardware doesn't fry and Garrus's cybernetic face implants are still intact. 

Now observe the memorial scene, and the music that crescendos as Shepard takes his breath. The only thing Bioware could have done more to confirm that Shepard is alive was spell it out to you. Hell the file name is called "Shepard_Alive."

Bioware made a statement about wanting to reward players with the high EMS breath scene. If it was a meaningless easter egg, they wouldn't have bothered to lower the EMS requirements for those that don't want to play MP.

They didn't add in a happy reunion scene because not all Shepards would have experienced the same emotions. Some people would rather have their Shepard be emotionally scarred after sacrificing an entire race and a friend. Others would want him and his LI to go off happily into the sunset.

Shepard's journey is done. His mission is complete. What he does afterwards is irrelevant to the main conflict/conclusion of the plot. All that was needed was an epilogue showing the galaxy is going to be in good shape. And we got that with the EC.

The crucible is not intact-the kid says it's not finished.

Listen to the Catalyst again. He says the device is intact "but the Crucible will not discriminate."

Twitter comments are not canon. They won't even confirm if the endings were an indoctrrination attempt. They're not going to tell you whether Shepard is alive or not. Judge the content for yourself. If you truly and honestly believe, despite all the hints and implications of the scene and everything leading up to it, that Shepard is dead then hey that's your business.

Ironically, if you actually believed that Shepard was dead then you wouldn't be asking for more "closure" since death is pretty much the ultimate closure you can give a character, but whatever.

[3DandBeyond]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Listen to the Catalyst again. He says the device is intact "but the Crucible will not discriminate."

Twitter comments are not canon. They won't even confirm if the endings were an indoctrrination attempt. They're not going to tell you whether Shepard is alive or not. Judge the content for yourself. If you truly and honestly believe, despite all the hints and implications of the scene and everything leading up to it, that Shepard is dead then hey that's your business.

Ironically, if you actually believed that Shepard was dead then you wouldn't be asking for more "closure" since death is pretty much the ultimate closure you can give a character, but whatever.

As for in your other post-reunion needn't have been more than one scene of Shepard surviving and found.  Most were not looking for more than that, but didn't get that.  It makes no sense to have closure for a dead Shepard where you see the flesh flying off, but I don't think you care about any of this.  You don't need this, but not everyone is you.

And in my game with every Crucible asset and 9000 EMS the kid says it is not complete or that it's largely intact-that doesn't mean finished.  I have everything, even Conrad's info.

It's not what I believe, it's how BW handled it, knowing that a lot of people with the original endings were holding onto just the glimmer of hope that the gasp meant something even when BW had decided the galaxy was a wasteland after ME3.

People are all different and since people continually asked for closure for Shepard and the torso can in no way be described as closure, even discussing it as such is actually rather funny.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 14 août 2012 - 07:54 .

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

So much "win" here. So anyone that really wanted a reunion and is now willing to pay for it because they see BW as unwilling otherwise is not sane? Nice. This for a game that has always included something definitive that led to that conclusion. All they want is a way to love 3 games and all kinds of other content they now have that BW ruined for them by not including something they should have been able to foresee was desired by many. Especially with the EC-where's the closure?

So the only acceptable form of closure is a reunion scene? Yea...sure.

Citation needed

[MegaSovereign]

3DandBeyond wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Listen to the Catalyst again. He says the device is intact "but the Crucible will not discriminate."

Twitter comments are not canon. They won't even confirm if the endings were an indoctrrination attempt. They're not going to tell you whether Shepard is alive or not. Judge the content for yourself. If you truly and honestly believe, despite all the hints and implications of the scene and everything leading up to it, that Shepard is dead then hey that's your business.

Ironically, if you actually believed that Shepard was dead then you wouldn't be asking for more "closure" since death is pretty much the ultimate closure you can give a character, but whatever.

As for in your other post-reunion needn't have been more than one scene of Shepard surviving and found.  Most were not looking for more than that, but didn't get that.  It makes no sense to have closure for a dead Shepard where you see the flesh flying off, but I don't think you care about any of this.  You don't need this, but not everyone is you.

And in my game with every Crucible asset and 9000 EMS the kid says it is not complete.  He doesn't say it's intact.  I have everything, even Conrad's info.

It's not what I believe, it's how BW handled it, knowing that a lot of people with the original endings were holding onto just the glimmer of hope that the gasp meant something even when BW had decided the galaxy was a wasteland after ME3.

People are all different and since people continually asked for closure for Shepard and the torso can in no way be described as closure, even discussing it as such is actually rather funny.

start at 7:24

"Your Crucible device appears to be largely intact, however the affects of the blast will not be constrained to the Reapers"


As for the issue of closure. All the endings had some elements that were left purposely ambigious. In the Control ending, how the galaxy feels about the Reapers "watching over" them has pretty unclear long-term ramifications. In the Synthesis ending, the logistics behind it are never fully explained. The game also never tells us what new capabilities organics have acquired. In the "ultimate" Destroy ending, Shepard's future is unclear but the galaxy goes back to normal. If anything, it would be more natural to think that Destroy provides players with more closure overall.


Wanting more is perfectly fine. I don't mind that. I just don't want to be forced to pay extra for it. Also, to keep their promise of the "no canon ending," they should make improvements across the board, not just destroy.

Sorry if I offended anyone with my "sane people" comment. I truly believe buying cutscene only DLC would be the biggest waste of money ever.

[3DandBeyond]

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

So much "win" here. So anyone that really wanted a reunion and is now willing to pay for it because they see BW as unwilling otherwise is not sane? Nice. This for a game that has always included something definitive that led to that conclusion. All they want is a way to love 3 games and all kinds of other content they now have that BW ruined for them by not including something they should have been able to foresee was desired by many. Especially with the EC-where's the closure?

So the only acceptable form of closure is a reunion scene? Yea...sure.

Citation needed

Apparently again we must always elaborate because we haven't said it enough right, iakus?

The other dead Shepard endings have closure and that's fine.  Sugar coated, but I dislike them anyway.  Destroy sucks, but at least closure would help it.  But I didn't say the only form of closure is a reunion scene.  Shepard could die in one version of destroy as well.  What I've desired is a Shepard lives scene with context that makes sense.  In this thread, I've tried to see how it could happen.  I'd be happier and could "live" with just closure added to the torso gasp that now is, with Shepard alive or dead based on how we played.  I'd rather have destroy make sense so I created this thread, but some like to minimize this and go back to implying mental problems or immaturity.  I never said what he has implied.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 14 août 2012 - 08:09 .

[3DandBeyond]

MegaSovereign wrote...




start at 7:24

"Your Crucible device appears to be largely intact, however the affects of the blast will not be constrained to the Reapers"


As for the issue of closure. All the endings had some elements that were left purposely ambigious. In the Control ending, how the galaxy feels about the Reapers "watching over" them has pretty unclear long-term ramifications. In the Synthesis ending, the logistics behind it are never fully explained. The game also never tells us what new capabilities organics have acquired. In the "ultimate" Destroy ending, Shepard's future is unclear but the galaxy goes back to normal. If anything, it would be more natural to think that Destroy provides players with more closure overall.


Wanting more is perfectly fine. I don't mind that. I just don't want to be forced to pay extra for it. Also, to keep their promise of the "no canon ending," they should make improvements across the board, not just destroy.

Sorry if I offended anyone with my "sane people" comment. I truly believe buying cutscene only DLC would be the biggest waste of money ever.

He says largely intact.  That does not mean complete.  And he also says it appears so.  Whenever someone says something is largely intact it does not mean intact. 

What I am talking about with closure is for Shepard.  Shepard is dead in the other 2 endings.  Shreaper is not Shepard in Control-Shepard is more than thoughts and memories and is feeling.  Shepard is gone and split up in Synthesis.  What it boils down to is many people came to the conclusion they weren't going to get the ending they wanted (it even happened in going from the original to the EC-people started asking for the bare minimum they hoped for).  So, all people now really decided on was to know what happened to Shepard and have it make some sense.  Destroy and the torso has no context that can make sense of it.  No face that's seen,  The Normandy is pretty far off and Shepard is in bad shape and we don't know where that is even.

The question mark is there about what happens to the galaxy, but people wanted to at least know what happened to the person they cared about the most, and for that person to know that his/her friends were ok and then to say goodbye. 

[MegaSovereign]

3DandBeyond wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...




start at 7:24

"Your Crucible device appears to be largely intact, however the affects of the blast will not be constrained to the Reapers"


As for the issue of closure. All the endings had some elements that were left purposely ambigious. In the Control ending, how the galaxy feels about the Reapers "watching over" them has pretty unclear long-term ramifications. In the Synthesis ending, the logistics behind it are never fully explained. The game also never tells us what new capabilities organics have acquired. In the "ultimate" Destroy ending, Shepard's future is unclear but the galaxy goes back to normal. If anything, it would be more natural to think that Destroy provides players with more closure overall.


Wanting more is perfectly fine. I don't mind that. I just don't want to be forced to pay extra for it. Also, to keep their promise of the "no canon ending," they should make improvements across the board, not just destroy.

Sorry if I offended anyone with my "sane people" comment. I truly believe buying cutscene only DLC would be the biggest waste of money ever.

He says largely intact.  That does not mean complete.  And he also says it appears so.  Whenever someone says something is largely intact it does not mean intact. 

What I am talking about with closure is for Shepard.  Shepard is dead in the other 2 endings.  Shreaper is not Shepard in Control-Shepard is more than thoughts and memories and is feeling.  Shepard is gone and split up in Synthesis.  What it boils down to is many people came to the conclusion they weren't going to get the ending they wanted (it even happened in going from the original to the EC-people started asking for the bare minimum they hoped for).  So, all people now really decided on was to know what happened to Shepard and have it make some sense.  Destroy and the torso has no context that can make sense of it.  No face that's seen,  The Normandy is pretty far off and Shepard is in bad shape and we don't know where that is even.

The question mark is there about what happens to the galaxy, but people wanted to at least know what happened to the person they cared about the most, and for that person to know that his/her friends were ok and then to say goodbye. 

What the hell constitutes a "complete" Crucible. What does that even mean?

If you noticed in the EC Destroy slide. They reactivated the beam from London to the Citadel. They can search for survivors. Shepard isn't doomed.

[Iakus]

 Oh and Destroy High EMS with less than 3100 EMS

Shepard doesn't live in all High EMS Destry endings.

SHepard living is an easter egg.  It needs to be a proper ending.

[Wu the Lotus Blossom]

Ok, I'm just going to come out and say it, at the risk of going off topic. What's so wrong with wanting a reunion? I'm not saying that would be equivalent to a "perfect" ending or that in itself it would "fix" anything, but I don't understand why some people are getting so bent out of shape because some of us would have liked that. I mean, we got to know these characters, to care for them, we saw amazing bonds and friendships weave between them and yes, we expected them to come back for Shepard in his/her hour of need. We wanted to see them together, without the threat of destruction hovering over them for once. Is that so ludicrous? I don't think so...