118 réponses à ce sujet

[Hretha]

IndigoVitare wrote...

Nope,

Nope,

Nope.

(to the various people quoting me)

If only one player is cloaked, the difference is unnoticable. The benefits of having an invisible player, on the other hand, cannot be overstated. Yeah, if you get two it's a pain, but... it's a pain even if they've picked damage. If there's already an Infiltrator on a team then one of you should switch classes. If that's a revelation for you, then I should probably add that I'm giving this advise assuming the players reading it realise that more than 1 Infiltrator (and less than 4) is a terrible squad setup for PUGs.

Damage may benefit everyone, but the damage spec does not. You're already doing loads of damage. The normal Infiltrator weapons will one-shot most enemies with or without it. The only enemies it really makes a difference on is bosses, and since it's not killing them instantly, an extra shot or two is small price to pay for easy hacks and revives.

As another aside, I know you say the SI is your favourite class, but I strongly recommend you go into Gold using something else. Too much Infiltrator playing and Tactical Cloak becomes a crutch you do not want. Aim to play Infiltrator about a fifth of the time. There are 5 other classes, you should be using them all (except Vanguard due to the glitch) and be proficient with each one.

Also, tempting though it may seem, try and stay away from FBWGG if you want to actually become a good, regular Gold player. FBWGG may be easy-mode Gold, but the tactics you employ in farming do NOT translate well into normal games. By all means, do a phase of farming, or play it occasionally, but just remember that FBWGG only teaches FBWGG.

I find, at least on silver (don't know about gold), that ED really goes a long way toward stripping shields and reducing the amount of damage I have to do with the sniper rifle.    I never stay in cloak unless I'm on a hack objective or I'm reviving someone (cloak, ED, shoot - rinse, repeat), so I don't think the additional aggro to the team is too much of an issue.

I really would love to play other classes on gold as well, but I'm going to keep them in silver until I'm really reliable with them.  I know at some point, everyone must've been carried in gold a bit, but I'd like to pull my weight as much as possible.   As I get more comfortable with the other classes, I'm sure I'll move to gold with them as well 

As for FBWGG, I've farmed it some, and easily made the top of the scoreboard more than once.  Really wasn't that much fun, tho, and I don't really consider that "gold".  The best experience I've had with gold was actually the last Operation weekend; I got with a group that got stuck in (yes, FBWGG) ...  we played a few games that wiped, with players coming and going, and then finally decided to play it "not-like-a-farming-match".   And wouldn't you know, we had a great match and got full extraction!  I really would like to play gold, and not just farm one map...

Lastly, I'll be playing PUG games.  Looks like both duration and damage have their advantages, but I'm leaning toward duration just for survivablility, at least in the beginning...

[Lunaticsmith]

You don't have to choose other over other, both are very useful and I play sometimes with damage and sometimes with duration, brings bit variety in tactics when playing with infi.

[deathacre]

Good luck capping the four objectives on platinum wave 10 without duration in a PUG. I think you do enough damage as an infiltrator without damage anyway.

[ExpiredLifetime]

deathacre wrote...

Good luck capping the four objectives on platinum wave 10 without duration in a PUG. I think you do enough damage as an infiltrator without damage anyway.

Good luck finding a pure PUG that can even make it to wave 10 on Platinum.

[IndigoVitare]

tonilynn17 wrote...
I find, at least on silver (don't know about gold), that ED really goes a long way toward stripping shields and reducing the amount of damage I have to do with the sniper rifle.    I never stay in cloak unless I'm on a hack objective or I'm reviving someone (cloak, ED, shoot - rinse, repeat), so I don't think the additional aggro to the team is too much of an issue.

I really would love to play other classes on gold as well, but I'm going to keep them in silver until I'm really reliable with them.  I know at some point, everyone must've been carried in gold a bit, but I'd like to pull my weight as much as possible.   As I get more comfortable with the other classes, I'm sure I'll move to gold with them as well 

On Gold the Shield Gate causes all sorts of havok. I'm not sure, but I don't think you can completely strip anything's shields even with the full 80% bonus. That means 2 shots with ED and the Valient. If you pick Duration... that's still two shots with ED and the Valient. This is what I mean by it not changing. 40% makes no real difference for the majority of weapons and builds against most enemies.

Even if you don't stay in cloak, it's still working to keep some aggro off you. It provides an easy escape and makes weapons do more damage. Get too used to it and you'll find trying to play normally is much, much harder. That's why I recommend another class. Learn what things take to kill on Gold normally first and you'll conversely find it easier when you use Tactical Cloak. Learn how much damage you can take, and what you should be watching the enemy for. Keep an eye on escape routes and alternative paths. That sort of thing. You may already know this, but I'd still be wary, I think a lot of Gold players forget what it was like when they first made the transition. It's a lot more different at first than we remember later.

Don't worry about needing to be carried. If you feel ready for Gold, know what you're getting into (seeing as how you have played Gold before, I'd say you do) and can reliably score in the top half of the board on Silver, with a variety of classes, you'll "pull your weight".

ExpiredLifetime wrote...

deathacre wrote...

Good luck capping the four objectives on platinum wave 10 without duration in a PUG. I think you do enough damage as an infiltrator without damage anyway.

Good luck finding a pure PUG that can even make it to wave 10 on Platinum.

About 70% of all PUGs I play...

That's not FBWGG either. Though I am picky; if there are too many bad looking players I'll leave the lobby and search again.

Modifié par IndigoVitare, 12 août 2012 - 05:40 .

[Hretha]

The Prophet Ray wrote...

Duration if you're concerned with usefulness. The cunning Salarian has more than enough trinkets to make up for taking duration over damage.

You must learn Shadow Style! You will strike down your enemies swifter than the Tiger. You shall have everlasting glory for the ability to assist with objectives without sacrificing killing power.

You will be the fabled Shadow Warrior, so sayeth Roy.

Alas, my Shadow Style is swifter than the Tiger, but dumber than the Rock, and thinks nothing of running Kamikaze into a group of geth.  Her teammates are exasperated, and exhausted from running across the map to kick her in the pants.  So until she learns to temper her speed and agility with some common sense, she must train in the bronze area. 

I will not doubt the prophecy of Ray, however, and will re-double her training efforts so that she may fulfill the prophecy of Ray  in all of it's everlasting glory. 

[Vagrant91684]

 Listen, OP.  You shouldnot listen to those telling you to choose damage.  Here's the deal...  You should have at least one infiltrator specced for duration.  On Platinum, people will expect you to have duration.  They will be pissed if they die on objective waves because the infiltrator couldn't get those switches.

If you're on gold, damage is a bit more acceptable, but not preferable.  

Everybody wants to do more damage, but 40% damage boost (while cloaked.  Not as useful as it sounds.) is not as noticable as an ability to cloak and run to the other side of the map.  And if you have bonus power, you can hit em hard with a power and run. (This is a must for the Shadow on Gold. Not quite as useful on other Infiltrators.)  I specced for damage, but soon realized how unacceptable this was on Platinum.

Do not listen to those telling you to choose damage.  Damage is nice, but suriving and completing objectives is nicer.

Modifié par Vagrant91684, 12 août 2012 - 05:59 .

[dumdum2]

IndigoVitare wrote...
On Gold the Shield Gate causes all sorts of havok. I'm not sure, but I don't think you can completely strip anything's shields even with the full 80% bonus. That means 2 shots with ED and the Valient. If you pick Duration... that's still two shots with ED and the Valient. This is what I mean by it not changing. 40% makes no real difference for the majority of weapons and builds against most enemies.

What the hell are you talking about? Have you even played the Salarian Infiltrator before making all kinds of false advice?

Damage benefits the team more if the player is good enough, and with Operative Package V on the Salarian Infiltrator you can absolutely strip shields on gold.

OP, when you're new to gold it's easier for you to use duration on cloak, fire one power while remain cloaked and hidden and put six ranks in health and shields on fitness.

When you get better at gold and feel like you want to benefit the team more, put all points in damage instead and don't put any points at all in fitness. That's how I play my SI on gold and platinum with great results.

[ExpiredLifetime]

Vagrant91684 wrote...

 Listen, OP.  You shouldnot listen to those telling you to choose damage.  Here's the deal...  You should have at least one infiltrator specced for duration.  On Platinum, people will expect you to have duration.  They will be pissed if they die on objective waves because the infiltrator couldn't get those switches.

If you're on gold, damage is a bit more acceptable, but not preferable.  

Everybody wants to do more damage, but 10% is not as noticable as an ability to cloak and run to the other side of the map.  And if you have bonus power, you can hit em hard and run. (This is a must for the Shadow on Gold.)  I specced for damage, but soon realized how unacceptable this was on Platinum.

Do not listen to those telling you to choose damage.

It's not 10%, it's 40%.

I still say that due to shield gate, if you're running a sniper you're likely better off taking duration. Shotgun, take damage.

[dumdum2]

Vagrant91684 wrote...

 Listen, OP.  You shouldnot listen to those telling you to choose damage.  Here's the deal...  You should have at least one infiltrator specced for duration.  On Platinum, people will expect you to have duration.  They will be pissed if they die on objective waves because the infiltrator couldn't get those switches.

If you're on gold, damage is a bit more acceptable, but not preferable.  

Everybody wants to do more damage, but 10% is not as noticable as an ability to cloak and run to the other side of the map.  And if you have bonus power, you can hit em hard and run. (This is a must for the Shadow on Gold.)  I specced for damage, but soon realized how unacceptable this was on Platinum.

Do not listen to those telling you to choose damage.

Another invalid post.

[Bechter]

tonilynn17 wrote...

So, I'm getting ready to brave some gold matches (I've played a few farming matches, but nothing serious so far).  My favorite, most reliable character is the SI w/ Valiant V .  Question is, what is more valuable to a gold team; damage or duration (for hacks and revives)?  I'm not worried about being at the top of the scoreboard; I just want to have a useful character.  Right now, I have him spec'd for duration, with energy drain maxed for damage (he strips shields pretty effectively), and he seems to be doing plenty of damage on silver.   Opinions?

Going to BSN for advice? Danger must be your middle name. Don't listen to any of the trolls, elitists, or uninformed ≤ 99.9% of posters.

P.S. The Idea you can't cap objectives and revive without duration is ludicrous. By that logic you can't revive or finish a 4 device objective without a infiltrator not true.

[FlowCytometry]

Usually prefer duration on all but SR infils, as it means I can take my time or make judgement calls w/ less time stress attached, and it hits the cloak cd less if you have to do anything but cloak and immediately fire. But this is also w/ certain weapons that tend to 1-2 shot lesser mobs anyways, like the Claymore. I feel the damage loss mostly just on bosses, but even then its' still good w/ proper reload cancelling and cloak cycling.

If I'm playing a pure sniper build I'll go for damage, though. SRs need all the boosts they can get to be competitive atm, and the safer long-ranged play style doesn't stress cloak duration that much- usually you'll be beading down on things from cover and just using cloak as a temp dmg boost right before you take the shot.

Modifié par FlowCytometry, 12 août 2012 - 05:56 .

[IndigoVitare]

dumdum2 wrote...

IndigoVitare wrote...
On Gold the Shield Gate causes all sorts of havok. I'm not sure, but I don't think you can completely strip anything's shields even with the full 80% bonus. That means 2 shots with ED and the Valient. If you pick Duration... that's still two shots with ED and the Valient. This is what I mean by it not changing. 40% makes no real difference for the majority of weapons and builds against most enemies.

What the hell are you talking about? Have you even played the Salarian Infiltrator before making all kinds of false advice?

Damage benefits the team more if the player is good enough, and with Operative Package V on the Salarian Infiltrator you can absolutely strip shields on gold.

Someone claimed it post-TC nerf (thinking about it, it was pre-gear, so that might be why). I never had reason to test it seeing as how I always pick duration anyway. Not to mention that it still doesn't matter on the Claymore, which appears to currently be the favourite.

*shrug*. I still recommend Duration. Maybe Private games can get away with damage, but PUGs? No chance; your team mates are too unreliable. Maybe they die once a wave, or are mysteriously incapable of doing objectives. Damage won't help anyone there. Duration will.

[BraveLToaster]

I run damage on SI, MQI, and GI, duration on the others. I tend to play the damage ones way more often, but there are times when duration comes in handy for objectives.

[Zero132132]

deathacre wrote...

Good luck capping the four objectives on platinum wave 10 without duration in a PUG. I think you do enough damage as an infiltrator without damage anyway.

I've done it as a Destroyer. Lack of stunlocking means I can almost always finish the hack. Actually, to be honest, I think I've literally never seen a duration-spec'd inf on Platinum

[Vagrant91684]

dumdum2 wrote...

Vagrant91684 wrote...

 Listen, OP.  You shouldnot listen to those telling you to choose damage.  Here's the deal...  You should have at least one infiltrator specced for duration.  On Platinum, people will expect you to have duration.  They will be pissed if they die on objective waves because the infiltrator couldn't get those switches.

If you're on gold, damage is a bit more acceptable, but not preferable.  

Everybody wants to do more damage, but 10% is not as noticable as an ability to cloak and run to the other side of the map.  And if you have bonus power, you can hit em hard and run. (This is a must for the Shadow on Gold.)  I specced for damage, but soon realized how unacceptable this was on Platinum.

Do not listen to those telling you to choose damage.

Another invalid post.

How is my post invalid?  And a post claiming a post is invalid is somehow valid?  Oh yes...  If I was taking advice from somebody, they must surely have your logical prowess...

[dumdum2]

IndigoVitare wrote...
*shrug*. I still recommend Duration. Maybe Private games can get away with damage, but PUGs? No chance; your team mates are too unreliable. Maybe they die once a wave, or are mysteriously incapable of doing objectives. Damage won't help anyone there. Duration will.

Well, I don't have a problem with that. I don't use duration or fitness anymore on my SI and there are a lot of times where I need to solo waves when playing with PUGs. I rather have the extra damage so I can kill things faster if I have to solo, duration was nice to have when I was new to gold and died at least once every wave.

Especially on platinum where you need to take down bosses fast if you want to complete it in at least 20-25 minutes, then you need the extra damage.

But it really all comes down to how good you are at keeping yourself alive.

[BoomDynamite]

Duration for all except the GI and one HI.

[dumdum2]

Vagrant91684 wrote...

How is my post invalid?  And a post claiming a post is invalid is somehow valid?  Oh yes...  If I was taking advice from somebody, they must surely have your logical prowess...

Your post is invalid because what you are claiming is not true. Are you a troll maybe?

[Vagrant91684]

ExpiredLifetime wrote...

Vagrant91684 wrote...

 Listen, OP.  You shouldnot listen to those telling you to choose damage.  Here's the deal...  You should have at least one infiltrator specced for duration.  On Platinum, people will expect you to have duration.  They will be pissed if they die on objective waves because the infiltrator couldn't get those switches.

If you're on gold, damage is a bit more acceptable, but not preferable.  

Everybody wants to do more damage, but 10% is not as noticable as an ability to cloak and run to the other side of the map.  And if you have bonus power, you can hit em hard and run. (This is a must for the Shadow on Gold.)  I specced for damage, but soon realized how unacceptable this was on Platinum.

Do not listen to those telling you to choose damage.

It's not 10%, it's 40%.

I still say that due to shield gate, if you're running a sniper you're likely better off taking duration. Shotgun, take damage.

Fixed.  I meant 40%.  Although, when you consider that the boost is for cloak only, there are only certain shotguns, like the Claymore, that would see much benefit from that.  

[Hretha]

cameron_bech wrote...

tonilynn17 wrote...

So, I'm getting ready to brave some gold matches (I've played a few farming matches, but nothing serious so far).  My favorite, most reliable character is the SI w/ Valiant V .  Question is, what is more valuable to a gold team; damage or duration (for hacks and revives)?  I'm not worried about being at the top of the scoreboard; I just want to have a useful character.  Right now, I have him spec'd for duration, with energy drain maxed for damage (he strips shields pretty effectively), and he seems to be doing plenty of damage on silver.   Opinions?

Going to BSN for advice? Danger must be your middle name. Don't listen to any of the trolls, elitists, or uninformed ≤ 99.9% of posters.

P.S. The Idea you can't cap objectives and revive without duration is ludicrous. By that logic you can't revive or finish a 4 device objective without a infiltrator not true.

Livin' dangerously; that's me!  I take it all with a grain of salt   There are a lot of people out there with experience playing gold/plat, and they know what they expect from a teammate.  Always good to get a feel for that before you jump in.  Doesn't mean I'm going to completely change the way I do things, I just don't want to be too big of a burden while learning.

As for your P.S., that is the center of the arguement (discussion? lol)... obviously, plenty of people play the other 5 classes without any cloak at all (which is why I think all the whining about the cloak being nerfed was a little much).  That being said, the duration may not be necessary, but it could still be quite beneficial.  Adepts could spec for damage instead of BE; certainly BE is not necessary, but it's certainly beneficial. 

[Bechter]

BoomDynamite wrote...

Duration for all except the GI and one HI.

Really?

Wrong:blink:

[Zero132132]

Vagrant91684 wrote...

 Listen, OP.  You shouldnot listen to those telling you to choose damage.  Here's the deal...  You should have at least one infiltrator specced for duration.  On Platinum, people will expect you to have duration.  They will be pissed if they die on objective waves because the infiltrator couldn't get those switches.

If you're on gold, damage is a bit more acceptable, but not preferable.  

Everybody wants to do more damage, but 10% is not as noticable as an ability to cloak and run to the other side of the map.  And if you have bonus power, you can hit em hard and run. (This is a must for the Shadow on Gold.)  I specced for damage, but soon realized how unacceptable this was on Platinum.

Do not listen to those telling you to choose damage.

What the hell are you talking about? I'd rather have a team mate capable of killing the **** out of things with the team over one that constantly deflects aggro for substantial chunks of time. Killing is 10/10 waves. Objectives are 3/10 waves.

[Vagrant91684]

dumdum2 wrote...

Vagrant91684 wrote...

How is my post invalid?  And a post claiming a post is invalid is somehow valid?  Oh yes...  If I was taking advice from somebody, they must surely have your logical prowess...

Your post is invalid because what you are claiming is not true. Are you a troll maybe?

Because I typed 10% instead of 40% by accident?  Haha!  Have you ever played Platinum?  It sure doesn't sound like it.

[Vagrant91684]

Zero132132 wrote...

Vagrant91684 wrote...

 Listen, OP.  You shouldnot listen to those telling you to choose damage.  Here's the deal...  You should have at least one infiltrator specced for duration.  On Platinum, people will expect you to have duration.  They will be pissed if they die on objective waves because the infiltrator couldn't get those switches.

If you're on gold, damage is a bit more acceptable, but not preferable.  

Everybody wants to do more damage, but 10% is not as noticable as an ability to cloak and run to the other side of the map.  And if you have bonus power, you can hit em hard and run. (This is a must for the Shadow on Gold.)  I specced for damage, but soon realized how unacceptable this was on Platinum.

Do not listen to those telling you to choose damage.

What the hell are you talking about? I'd rather have a team mate capable of killing the **** out of things with the team over one that constantly deflects aggro for substantial chunks of time. Killing is 10/10 waves. Objectives are 3/10 waves.

Those 3 waves are what gives you credits.  You should be doing more than enough damage, anyways.