270 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
I did not say that. I said because they are done with Shepards story and want it to be open to the players imagination. That is a clear reason.
Think Inceptions ending and dark knoght rises....Both or left open to the audiances imagination.

Both movies concluded with pleasant images the audience can decide the veracity of.  in Inception, Cobb is reunited with his children, and you can decide if it's a dream or not (I'll leave Dark Knight alone for spoiler reasons)

You see the image of a happy ending, and decide if it's real 

In ME3 we have to headcanon even the image. And after all the horror and death Shepard went through even in the last few minutes, that's imply not enough.  If we must imagine our own happy endings, we needed a better starting point for it. 

Too much wilderness to travel through to reach it.  Need nice smooth road.

ME3 destory ending is not with a literal dead Shepard shown. That leaves it open that he servives. You just want it bluntly shown. Seeing Shepard breath is a sign of hope.

[noxsachi]

The ending for Shepard is just so strange to me. I really can't think of another sci-fi story that ends like this, especially when til the end it is very much in the heroic genre. Honestly despite the costs, I really thought the series would've been fitting with an ending that implied the Normandy was off to have more adventures. It just seemed those kind of games and that kind of universe.

Yes the Reapers are horrific, yes bad things happen in the series, but it is not pervaded with a sense of gloom or depression. Shepard is always there to find the third way and make things better. Or do we all forget that in ME1, Shepard had a Reaper dropped on her, and she walks out from under it, smiling smugly. Or that in ME2 she can complete a suicide mission flawlessly, her crew giving her the thumbs up as they prepare for the next adventure. From the Wreckage is the perfect ending music for this series, yes things get dark, but in the end the good guys triumph with blaring fanfare. ()

[dreman9999]

noxsachi wrote...

The ending for Shepard is just so strange to me. I really can't think of another sci-fi story that ends like this, especially when til the end it is very much in the heroic genre. Honestly despite the costs, I really thought the series would've been fitting with an ending that implied the Normandy was off to have more adventures. It just seemed those kind of games and that kind of universe.

Yes the Reapers are horrific, yes bad things happen in the series, but it is not pervaded with a sense of gloom or depression. Shepard is always there to find the third way and make things better. Or do we all forget that in ME1, Shepard had a Reaper dropped on her, and she walks out from under it, smiling smugly. Or that in ME2 she can complete a suicide mission flawlessly, her crew giving her the thumbs up as they prepare for the next adventure. From the Wreckage is the perfect ending music for this series, yes things get dark, but in the end the good guys triumph with blaring fanfare. ()

"Shepard is always there to find the third way and make things better.  "
What?
Where was this 3rd option in vermire and the end of ME1 and ME2? Or with mornithand Samara?  Shepard hasalways been able to find resonalbe ways to solve thing as ling as it does go to absoults, case with no 3rd way out. Shepard doesn't just make his/her own. They only are able to pick it if it's obvious. With the end of ME3 there is no obvious way out.

[noxsachi]

dreman9999 wrote...

noxsachi wrote...

The ending for Shepard is just so strange to me. I really can't think of another sci-fi story that ends like this, especially when til the end it is very much in the heroic genre. Honestly despite the costs, I really thought the series would've been fitting with an ending that implied the Normandy was off to have more adventures. It just seemed those kind of games and that kind of universe.

Yes the Reapers are horrific, yes bad things happen in the series, but it is not pervaded with a sense of gloom or depression. Shepard is always there to find the third way and make things better. Or do we all forget that in ME1, Shepard had a Reaper dropped on her, and she walks out from under it, smiling smugly. Or that in ME2 she can complete a suicide mission flawlessly, her crew giving her the thumbs up as they prepare for the next adventure. From the Wreckage is the perfect ending music for this series, yes things get dark, but in the end the good guys triumph with blaring fanfare. ()

"Shepard is always there to find the third way and make things better.  "
What?
Where was this 3rd option in vermire and the end of ME1 and ME2? Or with mornithand Samara?  Shepard hasalways been able to find resonalbe ways to solve thing as ling as it does go to absoults, case with no 3rd way out. Shepard doesn't just make his/her own. They only are able to pick it if it's obvious. With the end of ME3 there is no obvious way out.

The third option to the end of ME1 and ME2 was clearly you winning, especially when you can turn a so called Suicide Mission into a walk in the park. Or did you not remember TIM, Miranda, everyone in ME2 saying you probably were not coming home alive? And then you did. Or how Vigil says that the Protheans lost everything in the struggle against the Reapers and you can defeat Sovereign and forestall the end of the galaxy?

Hell even in an obvious way out for ME3, especially if you are so eager to see Shepard kill herself. Why not have her radio Hacket that she has found the leader of the Reapers and for the fleets to concentrate all fire on her position. She dies, but so does space brat, and the Reapers are left leaderless and without cohesion so they can be beaten. The point is, up until space brat Shepard never takes anything any villain says at such a level of face value. Go see how Shepard talks to Saren or Soverign to show what she thinks of villains. "You're just a machine, and machines can be broken."

Modifié par noxsachi, 15 août 2012 - 08:24 .

[dreman9999]

noxsachi wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

noxsachi wrote...

The ending for Shepard is just so strange to me. I really can't think of another sci-fi story that ends like this, especially when til the end it is very much in the heroic genre. Honestly despite the costs, I really thought the series would've been fitting with an ending that implied the Normandy was off to have more adventures. It just seemed those kind of games and that kind of universe.

Yes the Reapers are horrific, yes bad things happen in the series, but it is not pervaded with a sense of gloom or depression. Shepard is always there to find the third way and make things better. Or do we all forget that in ME1, Shepard had a Reaper dropped on her, and she walks out from under it, smiling smugly. Or that in ME2 she can complete a suicide mission flawlessly, her crew giving her the thumbs up as they prepare for the next adventure. From the Wreckage is the perfect ending music for this series, yes things get dark, but in the end the good guys triumph with blaring fanfare. ()

"Shepard is always there to find the third way and make things better.  "
What?
Where was this 3rd option in vermire and the end of ME1 and ME2? Or with mornithand Samara?  Shepard hasalways been able to find resonalbe ways to solve thing as ling as it does go to absoults, case with no 3rd way out. Shepard doesn't just make his/her own. They only are able to pick it if it's obvious. With the end of ME3 there is no obvious way out.

The third option to the end of ME1 and ME2 was clearly you winning, especially when you can turn a so called Suicide Mission into a walk in the park. Or did you not remember TIM, Miranda, everyone in ME2 saying you probably were not coming home alive? And then you did. Or how Vigil says that the Protheans lost everything in the struggle against the Reapers and you can defeat Sovereign and forestall the end of the galaxy?

You always win. That's not a third option.

[noxsachi]

dreman9999 wrote...

noxsachi wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

noxsachi wrote...

The ending for Shepard is just so strange to me. I really can't think of another sci-fi story that ends like this, especially when til the end it is very much in the heroic genre. Honestly despite the costs, I really thought the series would've been fitting with an ending that implied the Normandy was off to have more adventures. It just seemed those kind of games and that kind of universe.

Yes the Reapers are horrific, yes bad things happen in the series, but it is not pervaded with a sense of gloom or depression. Shepard is always there to find the third way and make things better. Or do we all forget that in ME1, Shepard had a Reaper dropped on her, and she walks out from under it, smiling smugly. Or that in ME2 she can complete a suicide mission flawlessly, her crew giving her the thumbs up as they prepare for the next adventure. From the Wreckage is the perfect ending music for this series, yes things get dark, but in the end the good guys triumph with blaring fanfare. ()

"Shepard is always there to find the third way and make things better.  "
What?
Where was this 3rd option in vermire and the end of ME1 and ME2? Or with mornithand Samara?  Shepard hasalways been able to find resonalbe ways to solve thing as ling as it does go to absoults, case with no 3rd way out. Shepard doesn't just make his/her own. They only are able to pick it if it's obvious. With the end of ME3 there is no obvious way out.

The third option to the end of ME1 and ME2 was clearly you winning, especially when you can turn a so called Suicide Mission into a walk in the park. Or did you not remember TIM, Miranda, everyone in ME2 saying you probably were not coming home alive? And then you did. Or how Vigil says that the Protheans lost everything in the struggle against the Reapers and you can defeat Sovereign and forestall the end of the galaxy?

You always win. That's not a third option.

That's a function of gameplay, not the narrative. The narrative of the second game in particular is about saying that you will at the very least suffer heavy losses, which you can flip on its head.

[Nashiktal]

dreman9999 wrote...

noxsachi wrote...

The ending for Shepard is just so strange to me. I really can't think of another sci-fi story that ends like this, especially when til the end it is very much in the heroic genre. Honestly despite the costs, I really thought the series would've been fitting with an ending that implied the Normandy was off to have more adventures. It just seemed those kind of games and that kind of universe.

Yes the Reapers are horrific, yes bad things happen in the series, but it is not pervaded with a sense of gloom or depression. Shepard is always there to find the third way and make things better. Or do we all forget that in ME1, Shepard had a Reaper dropped on her, and she walks out from under it, smiling smugly. Or that in ME2 she can complete a suicide mission flawlessly, her crew giving her the thumbs up as they prepare for the next adventure. From the Wreckage is the perfect ending music for this series, yes things get dark, but in the end the good guys triumph with blaring fanfare. ()

"Shepard is always there to find the third way and make things better.  "
What?
Where was this 3rd option in vermire and the end of ME1 and ME2? Or with mornithand Samara?  Shepard hasalways been able to find resonalbe ways to solve thing as ling as it does go to absoults, case with no 3rd way out. Shepard doesn't just make his/her own. They only are able to pick it if it's obvious. With the end of ME3 there is no obvious way out.

To be fair the ending of ME3 only has no way out due to contrived writing that uses strange logic that, with the feeling I got from the rest of the series, comes so far out the left field it left me with a sucker punch feeling.

[Headcount]

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
I did not say that. I said because they are done with Shepards story and want it to be open to the players imagination. That is a clear reason.
Think Inceptions ending and dark knoght rises....Both or left open to the audiances imagination.

Both movies concluded with pleasant images the audience can decide the veracity of.  in Inception, Cobb is reunited with his children, and you can decide if it's a dream or not (I'll leave Dark Knight alone for spoiler reasons)

You see the image of a happy ending, and decide if it's real 

In ME3 we have to headcanon even the image. And after all the horror and death Shepard went through even in the last few minutes, that's imply not enough.  If we must imagine our own happy endings, we needed a better starting point for it. 

Too much wilderness to travel through to reach it.  Need nice smooth road.

ME3 destory ending is not with a literal dead Shepard shown. That leaves it open that he servives. You just want it bluntly shown. Seeing Shepard breath is a sign of hope.

Please correct me if I am wrong but didn't one of the devs suggest that scene could also be taken as Shepard's last gasp of life?

Modifié par Headcount, 15 août 2012 - 08:38 .

[dreman9999]

noxsachi wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

noxsachi wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

noxsachi wrote...

The ending for Shepard is just so strange to me. I really can't think of another sci-fi story that ends like this, especially when til the end it is very much in the heroic genre. Honestly despite the costs, I really thought the series would've been fitting with an ending that implied the Normandy was off to have more adventures. It just seemed those kind of games and that kind of universe.

Yes the Reapers are horrific, yes bad things happen in the series, but it is not pervaded with a sense of gloom or depression. Shepard is always there to find the third way and make things better. Or do we all forget that in ME1, Shepard had a Reaper dropped on her, and she walks out from under it, smiling smugly. Or that in ME2 she can complete a suicide mission flawlessly, her crew giving her the thumbs up as they prepare for the next adventure. From the Wreckage is the perfect ending music for this series, yes things get dark, but in the end the good guys triumph with blaring fanfare. ()

"Shepard is always there to find the third way and make things better.  "
What?
Where was this 3rd option in vermire and the end of ME1 and ME2? Or with mornithand Samara?  Shepard hasalways been able to find resonalbe ways to solve thing as ling as it does go to absoults, case with no 3rd way out. Shepard doesn't just make his/her own. They only are able to pick it if it's obvious. With the end of ME3 there is no obvious way out.

The third option to the end of ME1 and ME2 was clearly you winning, especially when you can turn a so called Suicide Mission into a walk in the park. Or did you not remember TIM, Miranda, everyone in ME2 saying you probably were not coming home alive? And then you did. Or how Vigil says that the Protheans lost everything in the struggle against the Reapers and you can defeat Sovereign and forestall the end of the galaxy?

You always win. That's not a third option.

That's a function of gameplay, not the narrative. The narrative of the second game in particular is about saying that you will at the very least suffer heavy losses, which you can flip on its head.

In the narrative you still always win. Heavy loses was never an issue. It was being succeding with the mission.

[dreman9999]

Headcount wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
I did not say that. I said because they are done with Shepards story and want it to be open to the players imagination. That is a clear reason.
Think Inceptions ending and dark knoght rises....Both or left open to the audiances imagination.

Both movies concluded with pleasant images the audience can decide the veracity of.  in Inception, Cobb is reunited with his children, and you can decide if it's a dream or not (I'll leave Dark Knight alone for spoiler reasons)

You see the image of a happy ending, and decide if it's real 

In ME3 we have to headcanon even the image. And after all the horror and death Shepard went through even in the last few minutes, that's imply not enough.  If we must imagine our own happy endings, we needed a better starting point for it. 

Too much wilderness to travel through to reach it.  Need nice smooth road.

ME3 destory ending is not with a literal dead Shepard shown. That leaves it open that he servives. You just want it bluntly shown. Seeing Shepard breath is a sign of hope.

Please correct me if I am wrong but didn't one of the devs suggest that scene could also be taken as Shepard's last gasp of life?

And that was an opinion. Not  a literal statement the Shepard was dead. That still means the ending is open to interpretation.

[dreman9999]

Nashiktal wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

noxsachi wrote...

The ending for Shepard is just so strange to me. I really can't think of another sci-fi story that ends like this, especially when til the end it is very much in the heroic genre. Honestly despite the costs, I really thought the series would've been fitting with an ending that implied the Normandy was off to have more adventures. It just seemed those kind of games and that kind of universe.

Yes the Reapers are horrific, yes bad things happen in the series, but it is not pervaded with a sense of gloom or depression. Shepard is always there to find the third way and make things better. Or do we all forget that in ME1, Shepard had a Reaper dropped on her, and she walks out from under it, smiling smugly. Or that in ME2 she can complete a suicide mission flawlessly, her crew giving her the thumbs up as they prepare for the next adventure. From the Wreckage is the perfect ending music for this series, yes things get dark, but in the end the good guys triumph with blaring fanfare. ()

"Shepard is always there to find the third way and make things better.  "
What?
Where was this 3rd option in vermire and the end of ME1 and ME2? Or with mornithand Samara?  Shepard hasalways been able to find resonalbe ways to solve thing as ling as it does go to absoults, case with no 3rd way out. Shepard doesn't just make his/her own. They only are able to pick it if it's obvious. With the end of ME3 there is no obvious way out.

To be fair the ending of ME3 only has no way out due to contrived writing that uses strange logic that, with the feeling I got from the rest of the series, comes so far out the left field it left me with a sucker punch feeling.

Destroy and control was stated to be options form the start. The only sucker puch is synthesis. And even then, you can live in the destory option.

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...
]ME3 destory ending is not with a literal dead Shepard shown. That leaves it open that he servives. You just want it bluntly shown. Seeing Shepard breath is a sign of hope.

Shepard walked into an explosion! That's pretty blunt.

But yes, I want it bluntly shown.  After watching Anderson die, genociding the geth, killing EDI, leaving the galaxy in shambles.  I need more than one breath  as a "sign of hope"

[Iakus]

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...


Please correct me if I am wrong but didn't one of the devs suggest that scene could also be taken as Shepard's last gasp of life?[/quote]And that was an opinion. Not  a literal statement the Shepard was dead. That still means the ending is open to interpretation.
[/quote]

So is SHepard's death in Synthesis and Control  open to interpretation?

[V-rcingetorix]

dreman9999 wrote...

V-rcingetorix wrote...

I believe the OP asked: "Why is our avatar shafter at the end?"

My question is: Why is the ME3 ending so different from the ME1/ME2 endings?

Not the same, but similar. A little tricky to spot, yes.

it's not similar at all.
ME1 Shepard win with little compromises to do.
In ME2 Shepard has a lot more to comprimies.
In ME3 Shepard has to absolutly comprimies to win.

You question is awnser with a simple "He is give harder choices to make over time". That is clear from comaparing the choices form ME1 , to ME2 to fianlly ME3.

The ops question is why Shepard is force to comprimies. This is different for you question of 
Why is the ME3 ending so different from the ME1/ME2 endings.

I'm afraid I must disagree. The similarity between the OP question and MIne is in that we both question the ending of ME3, and particualrly, of Shepard.

 The OP's phrase: "Why is our avatar shafter at the end?" means to me, "Why were we given a bad ending?"

My question is: "Why were we given a bad ending when we were given fantastic endings for ME1 and ME2?"

Our questions are similar. OP focuses on one game, mine focuses on the game compared to the series.

[hostaman]

V-rcingetorix wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

V-rcingetorix wrote...

I believe the OP asked: "Why is our avatar shafter at the end?"

My question is: Why is the ME3 ending so different from the ME1/ME2 endings?

Not the same, but similar. A little tricky to spot, yes.

it's not similar at all.
ME1 Shepard win with little compromises to do.
In ME2 Shepard has a lot more to comprimies.
In ME3 Shepard has to absolutly comprimies to win.

You question is awnser with a simple "He is give harder choices to make over time". That is clear from comaparing the choices form ME1 , to ME2 to fianlly ME3.

The ops question is why Shepard is force to comprimies. This is different for you question of 
Why is the ME3 ending so different from the ME1/ME2 endings.

I'm afraid I must disagree. The similarity between the OP question and MIne is in that we both question the ending of ME3, and particualrly, of Shepard.

 The OP's phrase: "Why is our avatar shafter at the end?" means to me, "Why were we given a bad ending?"

My question is: "Why were we given a bad ending when we were given fantastic endings for ME1 and ME2?"

Our questions are similar. OP focuses on one game, mine focuses on the game compared to the series.

"Why were we given a bad ending" is not a question. It is a subjective opinion.

A better question for you might be, "Why did it feel like a bad ending to me?"

The answer probably lies in the type of person / gamer that you are. You may prefer traditional endings, where everything is explained.  Either way, you can not proclaim that ME3 has a bad ending, when people such as myself think it has a good ending.

[chemiclord]

Sure they can.

I can tell you that in my opinion, the ending was a narrative mess with very little coherence. To me, it's pretty bad.

Now what should that opinion mean to you? Next to jack ****.

[V-rcingetorix]

hostaman wrote...

V-rcingetorix wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

V-rcingetorix wrote...

~snip~

I'm afraid I must disagree. The similarity between the OP question and MIne is in that we both question the ending of ME3, and particualrly, of Shepard.

 The OP's phrase: "Why is our avatar shafter at the end?" means to me, "Why were we given a bad ending?"

My question is: "Why were we given a bad ending when we were given fantastic endings for ME1 and ME2?"

Our questions are similar. OP focuses on one game, mine focuses on the game compared to the series.

"Why were we given a bad ending" is not a question. It is a subjective opinion.

A better question for you might be, "Why did it feel like a bad ending to me?"

The answer probably lies in the type of person / gamer that you are. You may prefer traditional endings, where everything is explained.  Either way, you can not proclaim that ME3 has a bad ending, when people such as myself think it has a good ending.

You have a point.

Near as I can tell, the canon does not specifically make the gender of Shepard either category, nor does it specify which LI is chosen. However, the "blank slate" start shows that Shepard chose to ignore the COuncil in ME1, is that canon?

Statistically speaking, a straight majority is usually correct, and overrules the minority. A supermajority overrules a minority by a greater percentage. The minority may be logical, correct and well-spoken, but it is in fact, minority and usually overruled.

As an example:
I was the overruled minority on Dragon Age: Origins (wasn't a forums user back then). I didn't like Morrigan, and I still don't. My choice to remain faithful to Leliana, or stay single was the minority decision; canon is against me there.

While I respect your decision, and the right for you to have a decision, the number of people who liked the ending (even/w the EC) isdecidedly in the minority. Therefore, the number of people who did not like the ending are in the majority.

I will therefore amend my statement to say: "Why was the ME3 ending so bad compared to ME1 and ME2, in the opinion of the majority of ME3 players?"

*crouch* pleasedon'thitme...

EDIT clarity

Modifié par V-rcingetorix, 16 août 2012 - 12:47 .

[Ozida]

Well, we all are going to know if the ending was/ wasn’t bad and who is truly a majority/ minority after this Survey is completed: http://www.masseffec...x.php?sid=91337. Because it is obvious that BioWare will share only those numbers that make them look good (which I kind of get, it’s a marketing point and so on).
However, you cannot deny an interesting fact that there are still more people complaining about endings up to this day than happy people discussing upcoming DLCs with more content. That must say something.

And not to insult anybody, but just of curiosity I am very curious if most of people who actually liked the endings picked Synthesis…

Modifié par Ozida, 16 août 2012 - 01:03 .

[V-rcingetorix]

I have seen a few polls (made a few myself). Most can't be used as empirical data, since less than 3,000 people voted. However, those that had more than 3,000 voters usually bear out an opinion against the current ending.

I'm curious myself; I used Synthesis, but redid it to be Destroy.

EDIT: thank you for the link for the vote. I hope it helps!

Modifié par V-rcingetorix, 16 août 2012 - 05:59 .

[DrwEddy]

dreman9999 wrote...
ME3 destory ending is not with a literal dead Shepard shown. That leaves it open that he servives. You just want it bluntly shown. Seeing Shepard breath is a sign of hope.

BULLCRAP! After 5 years, we're given this $h#9! I expected BioWare to pull off DA:O endings, but this scene could've been expanded on! I don't want a torso ending, I wanted him to get up or something then taking a breath. BioWare screwed it up!

Modifié par DrwEddy, 16 août 2012 - 03:47 .

[Jadebaby]

First of all, lol @ Father Jerusalem.

V-rcingetorix wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

V-rcingetorix wrote...

I believe the OP asked: "Why is our avatar shafter at the end?"

My question is: Why is the ME3 ending so different from the ME1/ME2 endings?

Not the same, but similar. A little tricky to spot, yes.

it's not similar at all.
ME1 Shepard win with little compromises to do.
In ME2 Shepard has a lot more to comprimies.
In ME3 Shepard has to absolutly comprimies to win.

You question is awnser with a simple "He is give harder choices to make over time". That is clear from comaparing the choices form ME1 , to ME2 to fianlly ME3.

The ops question is why Shepard is force to comprimies. This is different for you question of
Why is the ME3 ending so different from the ME1/ME2 endings.

I'm afraid I must disagree. The similarity between the OP question and MIne is in that we both question the ending of ME3, and particualrly, of Shepard.

The OP's phrase: "Why is our avatar shafter at the end?" means to me, "Why were we given a bad ending?"

My question is: "Why were we given a bad ending when we were given fantastic endings for ME1 and ME2?"

Our questions are similar. OP focuses on one game, mine focuses on the game compared to the series.

Okay, I'll start of by answering ringtone as best I can. I dont feel its so much as why is ME3 so bad and others are good, because as someone stated that's subjective. However, ME3's endings are objectively sad. You have just been forced to compromise with this evil creature and Shepard is shown commiting suicide as a result in all three endings (even if you choose to believe Shepard lived, s/he still walked at an explosive conduit in what appeared to be a martyr/suicide attempt).

While the other two games held true to Mass Effect's most central theme I believe. That (if you put in the effort) there is always a light at the end of the tunnel; this is reiterated even in ME3 by Eve, Samara and several others. In ME3 ending this theme is contradicted by having us compromise our morals, beliefs and ultimately, our lives in order to get a result, and no matter how hard you work up until that point, that doesn't change.

However, Dreman was closer as far as my question goes, which after 10 pages, has finally also been asked by someone else....

My question is this...

chemiclord wrote...

Oh yes, Bioware absolutely wanted Shepard to die in ME3.   They wanted that character dead and done.  Why?  I can only guess, but that was their fairly clear intent.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a total self-preservationist, despite the fact many of my Shepard's had a romance subplot which (seeing the endings) has probably resulted in the worst love story of all time.

But no, if my Shepard had to lay down the line and go out with a heroes death (see; Mordin). I would be fine with that, and some of my Sheps would definitely share that fate. But when it's an ultimately arbitrary and contrived nonsensical ultimatum, delivered by the very overlord of the enemy we have been conditioned to hate. Forgive me if I feel my sacrifice in said situation may be in vain. I find it hard to believe BioWare could knowingly expect us to compromise with the Reaper overlord, when one of the main traits of a Reaper is manipulation. In fact, they are pretty much God's of manipulation, yet you're expected to just ignore this and believe what it's telling you?

lulzwhat?


Finally....

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
]ME3 destory ending is not with a literal dead Shepard shown. That leaves it open that he servives. You just want it bluntly shown. Seeing Shepard breath is a sign of hope.

Shepard walked into an explosion! That's pretty blunt.

But yes, I want it bluntly shown. After watching Anderson die, genociding the geth, killing EDI, leaving the galaxy in shambles. I need more than one breath as a "sign of hope"

Okay, this is the biggest problem I have with the breath scene. It is not that I have trouble headcanoning things, nor do I always need things shown to me.

The problem is that to believe this scene happens, you have to ignore everything that comes before it..
Factually, by Shepard being at an epicentre of several (kilometre wide) explosions, with no capable rescue party near (the relays inoperable and fleets gone).

But also emotionally too, the endings leading up to that point are so full of negative and depressive emotions (Anderson and TIM deaths, final LI goodbye, Starchild and Reaper motives, Shepard suicide attempt) that it's almost impossible to take the breath scene positively.

Going back to Shepard's martyr/suicide attempt. This is more of an issue than the others because it feels so forced like it's BioWare going "Yay! Sacrifice! FEEL SAD DAMMIT!" That when the breath scene does happen, you just can't take that ray of hope seriously.

In fact, I am baffled by the level of ignorance people display in order to believe Shepard actually *could have* survived. I do understand the implication the scene itself is meant to represent, as that's all I ever saw it as. [Just to touch on this quickly I dont believe the scene actually ever happens in the story, but is just a symbolic addition to the story for the viewers, to leave them feeling hopeful. This is backed up by it being a video file.]

But the laughable nature of delivery, and contradictions of events prior to this scene requires you to display a high level of ignorance first, before you can headcanon anything else. It's this ignorance I have trouble accepting.
In fact, I am baffled by the sheer number of people that can accept it in order to believe Shepard actually *could have* survived.

Hence my phrase from the OP,

"I FEEL LIKE IM TAKING CRAZY PILLS HERE"

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 16 août 2012 - 09:53 .