When I played my Human Noble I didn't seek revenge against the Howe's. They lose their land anyway, so why bother?
If I had been given my druthers I'd have asked that a giant statue of Rendon Howe wearing a very pretty dress be erected down at the docks. But nobody asked.
And my first order as king of ferelden is to
Débuté par
VeeJayNaSsassin
, déc. 22 2009 01:45
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#27
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 02:47
AntiChri5
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mousestalker wrote...
When I played my Human Noble I didn't seek revenge against the Howe's. They lose their land anyway, so why bother?
If I had been given my druthers I'd have asked that a giant statue of Rendon Howe wearing a very pretty dress be erected down at the docks. But nobody asked.
best...revenge...EVER!
#28
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 02:52
sandboxgod
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Herr Uhl wrote...
VeeJayNaSsassin wrote...
lol, less then half the dwarven houses helped on my last play through, next time i might go evil and side w/ bhelen.
like 13 ish dwarves were at my command, compared to like 40-50 elves.
I got 50 (I think) dwarves with Harrowmont. Did you do all of Bhelens quests and then give the crown to Harrowmont or what?
And Bhelen is *not* evil, I get tired of people branding everything as evil.
Bhelen is an evil SOB but he has awesome politcal policies (in my opinion). So I choose him for the greater good of the dwarf race
#29
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 02:54
Herr Uhl
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sandboxgod wrote...
Bhelen is an evil SOB but he has awesome politcal policies (in my opinion). So I choose him for the greater good of the dwarf race.
Define evil for me then. How is he evil?
#30
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 02:55
Jester8183
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My first act as king... give the Dalish lands. Then prepare for the Qunari invasion.
On a Howe Note: I can't wait to get to the Landsmeet with my Human Noble so I can kill Howe then reload and kill him again... and probably 2 more times after that.
On a Howe Note: I can't wait to get to the Landsmeet with my Human Noble so I can kill Howe then reload and kill him again... and probably 2 more times after that.
#31
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 02:55
Gold Dragon
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He killed his Brothers, and most likely his father.
#32
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 02:58
Herr Uhl
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A Golden Dragon wrote...
He killed his Brothers, and most likely his father.
Did he do it out of malice?
#33
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 02:58
Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien
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He's not evil he is just ruthless. Your take on him being evil is just because he kills his brother and frames the other brother for it and possibly poisons his father, although if I remember rightly that is never truly confirmed. That isn't being evil, "it's just good business" as a certain Lord Cutler Beckett would say. 
#34
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 03:01
Gold Dragon
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Herr Uhl wrote...
A Golden Dragon wrote...
He killed his Brothers, and most likely his father.
Did he do it out of malice?
Can you prove he didn't?
#35
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 03:29
Volourn
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"hunt down and kill ever muther freak'n dwarfen house that didnt help fight the blight."
LMAO Where was Feralden when the dwarves needed help with the darkspawn as they rampage in the dark rods? Hypocritical humans. Come crying to us when YOU need help; but won't offer to help us. L A M E
"Define evil for me then. How is he evil?"
Bhelen is the very definition of evil. Betraying your family, murdering for the sake of power, and lying for selfish reasons is very evil.
Everything he does is for himself. He might make choices that 'better' some others' lifes; but he does it to benefit himself. Just look at his reaction if you choose Harrowmont - he becomes psycho and attacks. How does that benefit anyone? Look at his actions when you *do* name him king. He executes a man who wasn't really a threat. Bhelen is no different than some of the most evil leaders the world has ever seen. He is also a hypocripte and a two face evil scumbag. This is a guy who cries about you betraying your family when he did the same thing. He even has no problem with murdering a dwarven paragon unless they argree to his demands. He also has no problems with torture, murder, and other scumbag things.
Bhelen is evil. Period. And, yes, he does *everything* out of malice. And, greed. And, selfishness. And, a lack of morals. He betrays everything he pretends to be fighting for.
LMAO Where was Feralden when the dwarves needed help with the darkspawn as they rampage in the dark rods? Hypocritical humans. Come crying to us when YOU need help; but won't offer to help us. L A M E
"Define evil for me then. How is he evil?"
Bhelen is the very definition of evil. Betraying your family, murdering for the sake of power, and lying for selfish reasons is very evil.
Everything he does is for himself. He might make choices that 'better' some others' lifes; but he does it to benefit himself. Just look at his reaction if you choose Harrowmont - he becomes psycho and attacks. How does that benefit anyone? Look at his actions when you *do* name him king. He executes a man who wasn't really a threat. Bhelen is no different than some of the most evil leaders the world has ever seen. He is also a hypocripte and a two face evil scumbag. This is a guy who cries about you betraying your family when he did the same thing. He even has no problem with murdering a dwarven paragon unless they argree to his demands. He also has no problems with torture, murder, and other scumbag things.
Bhelen is evil. Period. And, yes, he does *everything* out of malice. And, greed. And, selfishness. And, a lack of morals. He betrays everything he pretends to be fighting for.
#36
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 04:39
skotie
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Anyone else think the dwarf house dispute would have been a harder choice had Bhelen not just let one of his guards/buddies strait up murder a guy on the streets for saying something bad about him? Seriously I wasn't in the door more than 2 minutes and this happens.
My first play through I had no clue what was happening with the dwarfs but I knew right away who I wasn't supporting XD.
My first play through I had no clue what was happening with the dwarfs but I knew right away who I wasn't supporting XD.
Modifié par skotie, 22 décembre 2009 - 04:42 .
#37
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 04:47
NvVanity
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A Golden Dragon wrote...
Herr Uhl wrote...
A Golden Dragon wrote...
He killed his Brothers, and most likely his father.
Did he do it out of malice?
Can you prove he didn't?
Well in the Dwarf Noblemen Origin you could be the one to kill Trian. Bhelen tricks you into doing it but if you think of it that way as playing as another Origin (minus knowing he tricked him) then you can't really consider him evil. Although when you first walk into Orzammar and see one of his goons axe a guard you do get a bit of a bad feeling from him.
#38
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 04:53
Maconbar
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Herr Uhl wrote...
A Golden Dragon wrote...
He killed his Brothers, and most likely his father.
Did he do it out of malice?
Most societies frown upon fratricide and patricide is an even bigger no no.
#39
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 04:56
Decomposey
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Bhelen is only 'evil' if the Grey Wardens are 'evil' He killed his brother and framed his other sibling, yes, but he did it because he believed it was the right thing to do, for his people. His father was perpetuating the social dynamic that was slowly destroying the dwarves, and his brother was flat out a horrible person that didn't even see some of his own kind as people.
Bhelen is no more evil then George Washington, Maximilien Robespierre, or William Wallace. Actually, he's probably less evil then them, he only actually killed ONE person, and messed up the lives of 3 others (exile, death from grief, and sentencing of Harrowmont). It's not like he skinned his brother afterwards and made a belt out of it, or beheaded every dwarven noble then attempted to silence every whisper of opposition with a Reign of Terror, or led approximately 25,000 dwarves to their deaths.
Is he rutheless? Yes. But evil? Ask the casteless their opinion on that.
Bhelen is no more evil then George Washington, Maximilien Robespierre, or William Wallace. Actually, he's probably less evil then them, he only actually killed ONE person, and messed up the lives of 3 others (exile, death from grief, and sentencing of Harrowmont). It's not like he skinned his brother afterwards and made a belt out of it, or beheaded every dwarven noble then attempted to silence every whisper of opposition with a Reign of Terror, or led approximately 25,000 dwarves to their deaths.
Is he rutheless? Yes. But evil? Ask the casteless their opinion on that.
#40
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 05:09
ejoslin
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Oh, both the dwarf noble and dwarf commoner origins answer so much about the whole Orzammar thing. And Bhelen was right to execute Harrowmont. AND his reasons for wanting to change the whole caste system . . . wow, I compare Alistair to him and find him a bit better than Ali as king in that regard.
#41
Guest_LostScout_*
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 05:10
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I think Bhelen did it because "he likes to win". And murdering your brother and framing your other brother for the murder is evil, whether it was done out of malice or "for the good of the people". If he were truly interested in the people, he would have gone to the assembly and convinced them to choose him as king. He is a good enough manipulator to have pulled it off. The ends are often used to justify the means, but they do not.
#42
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 05:28
Herakleia
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As queen, my first order of business will be to publish a precise description of the Grey Warden initiation ritual and what it entails, and strip them of any right of conscription. They may be needed to fight the Blight, but they should only get volunteers, and those volunteers need to know exactly what they're getting into. They're too secretive, and much too willing to resort to murder to keep their secrets. Yes, the Grey Wardens are not really all that noble or honorable.
I have not run any of the dwarven origins yet. Apparently I was missing information. I sided with Bhelen; he seemed to be the Candidate for Change, and dwarf society seemed pretty messed up.
I have not run any of the dwarven origins yet. Apparently I was missing information. I sided with Bhelen; he seemed to be the Candidate for Change, and dwarf society seemed pretty messed up.
#43
Guest_LostScout_*
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 05:36
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That's a good call. I think if they were open about it, the Grey Wardens would get a lot of very dedicated recruits who will become very effective soldiers. Instead of a bunch of people whose only option was Grey Warden or death. All hail Queen Herakleia!Herakleia wrote...
As queen, my first order of business will be to publish a precise description of the Grey Warden initiation ritual and what it entails, and strip them of any right of conscription. They may be needed to fight the Blight, but they should only get volunteers, and those volunteers need to know exactly what they're getting into. They're too secretive, and much too willing to resort to murder to keep their secrets. Yes, the Grey Wardens are not really all that noble or honorable.
I have not run any of the dwarven origins yet. Apparently I was missing information. I sided with Bhelen; he seemed to be the Candidate for Change, and dwarf society seemed pretty messed up.
#44
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 05:45
VeeJayNaSsassin
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Herakleia wrote...
As queen, my first order of business will be to publish a precise description of the Grey Warden initiation ritual and what it entails, and strip them of any right of conscription. They may be needed to fight the Blight, but they should only get volunteers, and those volunteers need to know exactly what they're getting into. They're too secretive, and much too willing to resort to murder to keep their secrets. Yes, the Grey Wardens are not really all that noble or honorable.
I have not run any of the dwarven origins yet. Apparently I was missing information. I sided with Bhelen; he seemed to be the Candidate for Change, and dwarf society seemed pretty messed up.
i agree, is why i didnt really care that duncan ended up dead.
#45
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 05:46
Original182
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Eventhough murder in Orzammar politics is commonplace, murdering your own brothers still crosses the line. If that's not an evil act, what else is? People like to go there's no evil, take it out of your vocabulary, but I think the real problem is people don't seem to know what evil is anymore. You put a murderer on the throne, and Orzammar politics will be the same.
But I still would choose Bhelen because Orzammar becomes more stable and the casteless people are treated more humanely.
I still don't understand why Bhelen wanted to remove casteless caste. Throughout the game he is portrayed as someone who only wants to win, and is only out for himself. I think he could have done it to win political points, and not out of the kindness of his heart.
But I still would choose Bhelen because Orzammar becomes more stable and the casteless people are treated more humanely.
I still don't understand why Bhelen wanted to remove casteless caste. Throughout the game he is portrayed as someone who only wants to win, and is only out for himself. I think he could have done it to win political points, and not out of the kindness of his heart.
#46
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 05:54
Silensfurtim
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My first task as King.. send a gazillion Templars to destroy that Apostate, Witch of the Wilds Morrigan. LOL.
#47
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 06:52
robertthebard
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Kill Alistair. What's that, he's already dead? Oh Wynne, could you do me a favor???
#48
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 07:37
Apophis2412
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kesayo2 wrote...
Now that I'm queen, Howe's family is toast.
Since when do we punish children for theirfather's crimes?
#49
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 07:38
Vicious
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I still don't understand why Bhelen wanted to remove casteless caste. Throughout the game he is portrayed as someone who only wants to win, and is only out for himself. I think he could have done it to win political points, and not out of the kindness of his heart.
Because it's an utterly genius move. Casteless are worthless, they do absolutely nothing but beg or turn towards a life of crime because society literally gives them no other option, they can be killed for entering the diamond quarter, for gods sake.
However if you give them a chance, 1) You become their hero, and 2) There are a LOT of them. The Dwarf Commoner origin gives some insight on this - They can fight, and fight well, and are willing to work hard if given a chance. Having casteless does nothing but weaken Orzammar. It would be a good thing to get rid of them.
#50
Posté 22 décembre 2009 - 08:04
Lotion Soronarr
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Herr Uhl wrote...
And Bhelen is *not* evil, I get tired of people branding everything as evil.
He is evil. Look it up in the dictionary. There's ZERO doubt about it.
Going after a goal by ANY means is what evil is practicly all about. He0s greedy, selfish, murdering bastard. And a lot of people suffer under him.
He orders murders, blackmails, tortures and if you have the anvil, throws political opponents and any dissidents into the anvil. Evil? Heck, Bhelen is the most evil person in the whole game.
If you reached hte point where you're defending him and claiming he is not evil, then discussing evil with you has no purpose whatsoever. You wouldn't know evil if it sat on your face.
