235 réponses à ce sujet

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

I can't import my neutral Shepard...

I wanted Shepard to say: "If I don't survive, tell my LI: hello".

[BatmanPWNS]

I rather have my little illusion then be forced to care about things like Thessia, Liara and the damn kid.

[chemiclord]

I don't know if it's a BOGUS complaint. I do think it's an overplayed one... I doubt too many people would give any ****s if it wasn't for bitterness over the endings.

[fiendishchicken]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

You're obviously just trying to elicit a reaction from everyone on here, OP.

Right. That's why I jotted down 8 different points backing up my opinion, just to elicit reaction.

And people wonder why I don't respect the average BSN user's opinions much. You're not entitled to my repsect - it's earned, not given. Do people expect me to be okay with these responses? And to quote Bill Maher, it's hard not to be condescending when you're talking to an idiot.

No, you're obviously trying to incite people on here. I'm not going to give you the satisfaction.
And I don't care about your respect. That's a two-way street.

[His Name was HYR!!]

IsaacShep wrote...

It's a perfectly valid complaint solely because we're playing the same character. It makes no sense from design POV to have the same character suddenly become more-predefined then he/she was in 2 installments of the trilogy. Had this been a new character, or a new game franchise, I wouldn't complain nearly as much.

But given the OP, how pre-defined was our character really?

We were still forced to say or do a lot of things that was not in our control: Liara is your forced friend that you hug when you see again. You're forced into Cerberus. You're forced OUT of Cerberus (even after saving the base, no dialogue-wheel response reaffirms your commitment to then) ... and the list goes on...

[His Name was HYR!!]

fiendishchicken wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

You're obviously just trying to elicit a reaction from everyone on here, OP.

Right. That's why I jotted down 8 different points backing up my opinion, just to elicit reaction.

And people wonder why I don't respect the average BSN user's opinions much. You're not entitled to my repsect - it's earned, not given. Do people expect me to be okay with these responses? And to quote Bill Maher, it's hard not to be condescending when you're talking to an idiot.

No, you're obviously trying to incite people on here. I'm not going to give you the satisfaction.
And I don't care about your respect. That's a two-way street.

Exhibit A: the lowest-common-denominator on BSN.

"You're a troll, OP!"
"Thanks for ignoring what I said..."
"No, you're a troll because I say so!!!"

[His Name was HYR!!]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

I rather have my little illusion then be forced to care about things like Thessia, Liara and the damn kid.

Being forced to care is nothing new. Especially not about Liara.

[Fixers0]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

It's a perfectly valid complaint solely because we're playing the same character. It makes no sense from design POV to have the same character suddenly become more-predefined then he/she was in 2 installments of the trilogy. Had this been a new character, or a new game franchise, I wouldn't complain nearly as much.

But given the OP, how pre-defined was our character really?

We were still forced to say or do a lot of things that was not in our control: Liara is your forced friend that you hug when you see again. You're forced into Cerberus. You're forced OUT of Cerberus (even after saving the base, no dialogue-wheel response reaffirms your commitment to then) ... and the list goes on...

But there's much more, for example

The current system removes the potential for interesting and diverging conversations, the Normandy inspection quest from the first game is a good example of where the Dialouge wheel really shines and what would have be impossible to do with Mass Effect3's system.

Modifié par Fixers0, 12 août 2012 - 08:20 .

[His Name was HYR!!]

Fixers0 wrote...

But there's much more, for example

The currents system removes the potention for interesting and diverging conversations, the Normandy inspection quest from the first game is a good example of where the Dialouge wheel really shines and what would have be impossible to do with Mass Effect3's system.

I remember that quest. Not sure what you mean here, though.

[jeffyg93]

I honestly don't have a single issue with auto-dialogue either. The flow is much better and we still make important decisions on what Shepard says or does. The many times wer were give the choices "Who are you?" and "What is that?" on the DW in ME1 were pointless because it always led Shepard to say the same thing no matter what. And people complaining about a lack of neutral dialogue choices are shortsighted too, because the "neutral" choices almost always contained the exact same dialogue as one of the other corresponding choices.

People just seem so bitter about the endings that they will irrationally hate all of ME3 no matter what.

[BatmanPWNS]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

I rather have my little illusion then be forced to care about things like Thessia, Liara and the damn kid.

Being forced to care is nothing new. Especially not about Liara.

In ME1, at least, I could make fun of her. In ME2, Liara and Team Dextro was the only forced emotions I got.

[Fixers0]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

But there's much more, for example

The currents system removes the potention for interesting and diverging conversations, the Normandy inspection quest from the first game is a good example of where the Dialouge wheel really shines and what would have be impossible to do with Mass Effect3's system.

I remember that quest. Not sure what you mean here, though.

As said, with the new system implented in mass Effect 3 (high amount of autodialogue, lack of neutral options, railroading), quests such as the Normandy inspection (that revolve entirely around making dialogue choices, with a high amount of depth and options) are impossible make.

[Apple Lantern]

**** Auto-dialogue.

Stupid overabundance of this crap ruins role play. I don't care whether making decisions would usually end up resulting in the same action, at least Shepard doesn't sound like a retarded monkey while getting there. Getting there is also different depending on what you choose, so you could accurately play different characters on each play through. Auto-dialogue ruins it. I can't even finish my first actual Role-played Shepard because of AD; she sounds so totally different from what I had her saying and doing in the previous games it ruins everything!

I just...

[AlexMBrennan]

OP: Yes, the omission of neutral options compared to ME2 was totally not noticeable (unless you were a munchkin and always picked renegade/paragon options "because you're a renegade/paragon")

[Ticonderoga117]

Auto-dialogue is fine and dandy for things like combat. Especially since having the little wheel appear would disrupt the gameplay and all that.

Having Shepard go a whole conversation with no input from me is horrible.
This WAS supposed to be a RPG. Now I don't expect 10,000 choices and all that jazz, I expect 3-4 generally. More if the writer/programmer is feeling generous.

What I can't forgive is the lack of neutral lines now that they fixed the reputation thing to work with neutral dialogue! Why bother fixing it if they didn't bother to put the feature that needed it in the first place!

[Conniving_Eagle]

Mass Effect 3's dialogue system already makes me feel like I'm playing action mode.

[His Name was HYR!!]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

OP: Yes, the omission of neutral options compared to ME2 was totally not noticeable (unless you were a munchkin and always picked renegade/paragon options "because you're a renegade/paragon")

Okayyy... I don't remember where I said anything about the lack of neutral options.

[His Name was HYR!!]

Fixers0 wrote...

As said, with the new system implented in mass Effect 3 (high amount of autodialogue, lack of neutral options, railroading), quests such as the Normandy inspection (that revolve entirely around making dialogue choices, with a high amount of depth and options) are impossible make.

Sure you can.

It would work no differently than the mechanics of persuading TIM to stand down at the end of the game.

[Someone With Mass]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Problems with the old systems:

1.) Dialogue Wheel responses leading to saying the exact same thing.
2.) DW responses leading to saying the same thing with just slightly nuanced opinion (as opposed to, a contrary opinion).
3.) DW reponses assuming your motivations behind a decision. ("I'm not going to let fear compromise who I am!" ugh...)
4.) DW response otherwise not reflecting your opinion on a development.
5.) DW options not always reflecting the actual response very well.
6.) Persuation system forcing you to play strictly to one morality to unlock persuation options rather than in-character.
7.) Being left with only one (persuation) dialogue response as a result of the above.
8.) Abundance of forced opinons (friendships, railroading) even before ME3, despite the dialogue-wheel.


I will agree there should have been less of it in ME3. But complaining about its presence outright is absurd. Given some of the issues up top, it's practically necessary.

I agree. I never expected Shepard to be completely my character who acts strictly based on my opinion, anyway. They established that fact when they made him an Alliance soldier no matter what in ME1 and made him work with Cerberus no matter what in ME2. It's one thing they have to do in order to focus on a specific story.

Even if some of those old problems with the dialogue wheel still persisted in the later games, I never really found it too distracting. Sure, there might have been a few lines or moments that I might have wanted to change, but I doubt they'd changed much in the big picture or they were just a minor nitpick at best. No need to cry about it.

[spirosz]

There were sequences in ME1 that lead to the same dialogue regardless of choice, but I think the way they handled that complaint was perfect in ME2. It had just enough auto-dialogue, that I barley noticed half time because it would be used in situations like (in most cases) seeing Thane for the first time or during Liara's DLC, where most of it was just banter or only a small] part of the game. During those situations, it helped the conversation flow better - which most of the time, it was the opening dialogue to a conversation, which is fine IMO. Plus the whole idea of people waiting 10-15 seconds to pick a choice really seems like a big excuse from Bioware to cut corners.

I miss the addition of neutral because it felt like my Shepard wasn't being an extremist on both sides, I usually played a neutral paragon player and for example, I would save before certain conversations - talking to Jack in her pit and see which 3 options I liked the best because most of the time, they were different and led to different outcomes from her. Where as in ME3 - you end up picking one choice and end up watching the conversation for a few minutes, instead of interacting with it. I felt like, if you played through the game twice, you've basically heard all of that needs to be heard... and there were moments where Shepard would say things that contradicted what I would of chosen for him - get mad at Joker for the Liara's home joke? My Shepard would of laughed - oh hey Jacob, you cheat on me and want to have a good, that's cool with me, let's get wild on the Citadel after? Kthxbai. I felt through the whole game, it wasn't my Shepard and that's my main complaint about ME3 and why I can't play it again.

Plus, I understand that there are certain things that are established - Alliance Solider, wanting to bang Liara, but those were already set in stone since we set foot on Eden Prime, so I didn't mind.

Modifié par spirosz, 12 août 2012 - 08:44 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

Why does ME3 still have Paragon/Renegade? There's like >10 P/R checks.

[Applepie_Svk]

Hyr and his monologue...

Big deal of fans thinks otherswise, one of the good thing from previous two games was actually conversation wheel, if you think that ME2 Kasumi and Zaed with their 0 real conversations were great - have it your way but don´t try to say that there was problem with old system... no it wasn´t - the only problem create ME3 with supposed innovative solution...

[Kataphrut94]

I'm of the view that the dialogue as it stands was incredibly well-written and I never personally felt the non-dialogue wheel controlled lines (which were generally pretty simple and character-neutral anyway) somehow divulged from Shepard's character.

Granted, more dialogue wheel choices would be lovely, but really, the non-player controlled dialogue is only a problem if you played Shepard in previous game as a sociopathic, racist jerk. It's probably for the best they got rid of that aspect entirely and just made the renegade lines what they were always supposed to be: pragmatic, unfettered, ruthless, yet still ultimately heroic. That aspect of the renegade playthrough comes across far better in Mass Effect 3 than it does in previous games.

Also, the Zaeed/Kasumi style after-mission dialogue for squadmates? Aces! Keep it up. Squadmates actually commenting on the events around them, keeping in the loop and getting proper interaction scenes with each other on the Normandy is well worth the loss of a dialogue wheel in those instances. The fact that they're quite interesting to listen to and always have content the whole game, as opposed the constant calibrations of the last one means they should be here to stay, and rightfully so.

[AresKeith]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Why does ME3 still have Paragon/Renegade? There's like >10 P/R checks.

if you turn off "full decisions" in the options menu or choose to go Action Mode, they make you say only the Renegade options with their 100% auto-dialogue

[clarkusdarkus]

Tell those that play action mode, much like fetch quest defenders that state ME1 had fetch quests like ME3........it's more the preference of what we had before.....

ME1 = a true dialogue wheel, even tho investigate and the choices end up the same answer near enough,fetch quests were actual gameplay using mako on different planets and your abilities/weapons to retrieve the item

ME3 = Auto-dialogue which can ruin the immersion for some, fetch quests with no gameplay other than cat & mouse/scanning

Even tho in principal there the same, it's the preference of what ME1 offered as opposed to ME3 as ME1 catered to the RPG side of things which felt more immersive and epic. And those that state about ME1 recycled planets........it's not about that as i personally didnt notice textures recycled etc as i was totally hooked and was immersed and not analyzing a game that way.

Modifié par clarkusdarkus, 12 août 2012 - 08:59 .