235 réponses à ce sujet

[clarkusdarkus]

Someone With Mass wrote...

clarkusdarkus wrote...

ME3/action mode/6 hours.........and that represents the RPG genre...mwahaha

Who here says it does?

is mass effect not sold as an RPG?

[Xx_Belzak_xX]

So...because you say it's bogus, it must be so? Ah, I get it now. Look, someone is forming a different opinion! BLASPHEMY!!!

[yukon fire]

Our involvement in the game used to be respected, I can enjoy talking to someone and I find two people talking to each other tedious if they're just going to ignore me completely. When Bioware stole Shep they greatly limited our ability to interact within the game and in a game that sets new personal lows in the narrow perspective of both the universe and the narrative it leaves me feeling physically ill. The worst hell anyone can ever experience is to know that something bad is going to happen to you and the people you care about and there is nothing you can do to stop it. This is where Bioware sends us, they just don't care.

Modifié par yukon fire, 13 août 2012 - 10:49 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

xxBabyMonkeyxx wrote...

Its an RPG, not an full on action game. You should be able to control what Shepard is saying. Not pick one or two things and have the conversation go in that direction. Maybe I want to say something different in the middle. Maybe I wanted to know more about this specific character. Nope, you get max three options to choose from and watch the conversation from there.

BW disagrees with you. Take a look at the official ME3 site. The term RPG cannot be found there. It is promoted as an action game with an interactive story. The OP thinks that interaction is the problem. That means he/she bought the wrong game.

[clarkusdarkus]

yukon fire wrote...

Our involvement in the game used to be respected, I can enjoy talking to someone and I find two people talking to each other tedious if they're just going to ignore me completely. When Bioware stole Shep they greatly limited our ability to interact within the game and in a game that sets new personal lows in the narrow perspective of both the universe and the narrative it leaves me feeling physically ill. The worst hell anyone can ever experience is to know that something bad is going to happen to you and the people you care about and there is nothing you can do to stop it. This is where Bioware sends us, they just don't care.

I like how people nuthug that squadmates talk to each other on the normandy.........well firstly you cant even join in, they ignore you, and secondly not all squadmates do as ashley didn't join in with anyone, the immersion is none existant in ME3.......1 playthrough of ME3 and iv'e spent more time on here than the game itself, im not even a member of the ME1/2 forum which says it all

[Baronesa]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

xxBabyMonkeyxx wrote...

Its an RPG, not an full on action game. You should be able to control what Shepard is saying. Not pick one or two things and have the conversation go in that direction. Maybe I want to say something different in the middle. Maybe I wanted to know more about this specific character. Nope, you get max three options to choose from and watch the conversation from there.

BW disagrees with you. Take a look at the official ME3 site. The term RPG cannot be found there. It is promoted as an action game with an interactive story. The OP thinks that interaction is the problem. That means he/she bought the wrong game.

BioWare is moving away from RPG, because RPG are a niche market and do not sell as well as more popular genres like action games... (Let's not ruin this line of thinking by talking about Skyrim, ok... it would break EA's premise)

So they simply shift towards a more "popular" genre and make games that say "And so do I" rather than keep going on what set BioWare apart from other companies. When RPG games seemed to be almost dead... Baldur's Gate cme in and gave new life to the genre... and now the company that for years was synonim with RPG... is moving away from RPG.


Anyone else finds it incredibly stupid?

[yukon fire]

Baronesa wrote...


BioWare is moving away from RPG, because RPG are a niche market and do not sell as well as more popular genres like action games... (Let's not ruin this line of thinking by talking about Skyrim, ok... it would break EA's premise)

So they simply shift towards a more "popular" genre and make games that say "And so do I" rather than keep going on what set BioWare apart from other companies. When RPG games seemed to be almost dead... Baldur's Gate cme in and gave new life to the genre... and now the company that for years was synonim with RPG... is moving away from RPG.


Anyone else finds it incredibly stupid?

One word Bioware: Skyrim

[clarkusdarkus]

Baronesa wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

xxBabyMonkeyxx wrote...

Its an RPG, not an full on action game. You should be able to control what Shepard is saying. Not pick one or two things and have the conversation go in that direction. Maybe I want to say something different in the middle. Maybe I wanted to know more about this specific character. Nope, you get max three options to choose from and watch the conversation from there.

BW disagrees with you. Take a look at the official ME3 site. The term RPG cannot be found there. It is promoted as an action game with an interactive story. The OP thinks that interaction is the problem. That means he/she bought the wrong game.

BioWare is moving away from RPG, because RPG are a niche market and do not sell as well as more popular genres like action games... (Let's not ruin this line of thinking by talking about Skyrim, ok... it would break EA's premise)

So they simply shift towards a more "popular" genre and make games that say "And so do I" rather than keep going on what set BioWare apart from other companies. When RPG games seemed to be almost dead... Baldur's Gate cme in and gave new life to the genre... and now the company that for years was synonim with RPG... is moving away from RPG.


Anyone else finds it incredibly stupid?

i hear dragon's dogma sold well aswell as there making a sequel? and that was with little advertisement unlike ME3......ME3 was crap and lost me as a customer along with DA2, the niche market as you say is where i belong and bioware moving away from that/me is there own reasoning, but after the sh**storm with DA2/ME3 im glad in a way there not making games catered to me as there last 3 including TOR were shuch a letdown that there new fanbase can have bioware with there twitter gimmicks,day 1 dlc,apps,weapons dlc,micro-transactions etc.........as none of that belongs in a SP rpg.

[Someone With Mass]

yukon fire wrote...

One word Bioware: Skyrim

The company behind it never succeeds in making interesting/popular characters on the same scale as Mass Effect, though.

By the way, if you have such a problem with it and don't even like Mass Effect anymore, then why are you even here? To whine about how Mass Effect isn't that generic and lame fantasy RPG?

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 13 août 2012 - 11:08 .

[yukon fire]

Someone With Mass wrote...

yukon fire wrote...

One word Bioware: Skyrim

The company behind it never succeeds in making interesting/popular characters on the same scale as Mass Effect, though.

very true but they would never have made a game as shallow as ME3

[Someone With Mass]

yukon fire wrote...
very true but they would never have made a game as shallow as ME3

Don't care that much about the, oh so deep RPG elements either, since they're usually just praised to have complexity when they're the same system that most RPGs have been for decades now.

You level up, you get points, you spend those points. You get loot that changes your stats in some areas or from certain characters.

[yukon fire]

Someone With Mass wrote...

yukon fire wrote...

One word Bioware: Skyrim

The company behind it never succeeds in making interesting/popular characters on the same scale as Mass Effect, though.

By the way, if you have such a problem with it and don't even like Mass Effect anymore, then why are you even here? To whine about how Mass Effect isn't that generic and lame fantasy RPG?

Because they were on the cusp of something truly amazing and unseen throughout the industry, a trilogy of games from a company that trusted the player with partial control of the narrative. And despite their best efforts to sour the story and salt the earth what they accomplished with Mass Effects 1& 2 should never be forgotten, but when things got difficult for them they ripped away that narrative control for something easier for them. After that compromise it became easier and easier for them to justify that simpler and cheaper things were better This was beyond stupid, this was evil. Since they continue to lie to us they can never again be a good example, so they need to be a horrible warning.

Modifié par yukon fire, 13 août 2012 - 11:27 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Baronesa wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

xxBabyMonkeyxx wrote...

Its an RPG, not an full on action game. You should be able to control what Shepard is saying. Not pick one or two things and have the conversation go in that direction. Maybe I want to say something different in the middle. Maybe I wanted to know more about this specific character. Nope, you get max three options to choose from and watch the conversation from there.

BW disagrees with you. Take a look at the official ME3 site. The term RPG cannot be found there. It is promoted as an action game with an interactive story. The OP thinks that interaction is the problem. That means he/she bought the wrong game.

BioWare is moving away from RPG, because RPG are a niche market and do not sell as well as more popular genres like action games... (Let's not ruin this line of thinking by talking about Skyrim, ok... it would break EA's premise)

So they simply shift towards a more "popular" genre and make games that say "And so do I" rather than keep going on what set BioWare apart from other companies. When RPG games seemed to be almost dead... Baldur's Gate cme in and gave new life to the genre... and now the company that for years was synonim with RPG... is moving away from RPG.

Anyone else finds it incredibly stupid?

Yes. Read BioWare’s Muzyka: Line Between RPGs, Shooters Blurring. It's a deliberate choise and that direction is company policy for about 3 years now. It doesn't surprise me that many players, including the OP, are confused. Obviously ME doesn't want to be an RPG anymore, but it looks like it wants to be an action game. All that is left is the "interactive story". The game mechanics don't do much anymore. At higher difficulty levels biotic and tech skills are useless. At lower difficulty levels it doesn't matter much either, because investing points in those skills doesn't have much effect. After all, it needs to be an action game and diminishing the importance of anything that smells like magic is what action game players want. Removing all RPG elements would not make sense, because there are still RPG fans out there. So ME leaves them for the time being, but makes them worthless by the scaling mechanism.

Maybe the OP is right and it is best to push BW to remove interaction and all choises. ME already railroads everything. If the rachni queen is killed then she is just replaced by an artificial one. Legion killed? Replaced by the Geth VI. Wrex killed? Replaced by Wreav. And so on. There is no use in making choises that way.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 13 août 2012 - 11:29 .

[Grubas]

AresKeith wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Gears of Effect: Massive Duty 4?

Pre-order now and get access to the Firebase White 2187 Map.

here's on the trailers now lol  

If i would honestly like ME3 the way it is, i would absolutely love this game.
They got mechs in it. And a co-writer from Dark Knight rises. And iam shure some Hollywood Actors for the cutscenes.
THIS is how you sell PEW PEW games to a large audience. 
THIS is what EAware wants to be compared to.

Modifié par Grubas, 13 août 2012 - 11:32 .

[Podge 90]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Another issue overblown by the complainers.

Yeah, those pesky complainers.

You can thank them for the EC, by the way.

[Jayleia]

Baronesa wrote...

BioWare is moving away from RPG, because RPG are a niche market and do not sell as well as more popular genres like action games... (Let's not ruin this line of thinking by talking about Skyrim, ok... it would break EA's premise)

So they simply shift towards a more "popular" genre and make games that say "And so do I" rather than keep going on what set BioWare apart from other companies. When RPG games seemed to be almost dead... Baldur's Gate cme in and gave new life to the genre... and now the company that for years was synonim with RPG... is moving away from RPG.


Anyone else finds it incredibly stupid?

If you're so talented at doing something well that you're world famous for it, you should probably keep doing that, rather than going a different direction.

(Example:  Michael Jordan, awesome basketball player...not so good at baseball...but he could afford to take the chance because he's MICHAEL FREEKIN JORDAN)

[wright1978]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Auto-dialogue is a perfectly valid complaint, particularly if you enjoy the interactive nature of conversations and when autodialogue exists far and beyond what either ME1 or 2 included.

Yes this. Gone back to ME2 and experienced the wonderful world where i get to pick the very different responses, get to decide which questions and statements my character is going to say. Got the ability for shape shep to reflect the character i had built rather experiencing a railroaded default shep of their choosing.

Yes auto-dialogue always had its place, for non characterising moments to aid flow. Suddenly in ME3 flow is the master rather than the servant of player characterisation. ME3 butchered the roleplaying side of ME, butchered neutral choice and made me severely doubtful about whether Biwoare cares one jot for the Roleplaying.

[hostaman]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Problems with the old systems:

1.) Dialogue Wheel responses leading to saying the exact same thing.
2.) DW responses leading to saying the same thing with just slightly nuanced opinion (as opposed to, a contrary opinion).
3.) DW reponses assuming your motivations behind a decision. ("I'm not going to let fear compromise who I am!" ugh...)
4.) DW response otherwise not reflecting your opinion on a development.
5.) DW options not always reflecting the actual response very well.
6.) Persuation system forcing you to play strictly to one morality to unlock persuation options rather than in-character.
7.) Being left with only one (persuation) dialogue response as a result of the above.
8.) Abundance of forced opinons (friendships, railroading) even before ME3, despite the dialogue-wheel.


I will agree there should have been less of it in ME3. But complaining about its presence outright is absurd. Given some of the issues up top, it's practically necessary.

I actually think you're right, but I don't draw the conclusion that this is a problem.  I think it's only an issue if you have the expectation that the "DW" can allow the conversation and narrative to go off in many hundreds of different directions.

The "Choices" you have in any ME game (in any RPG) are mostly an illusion, otherwise it would be impossible to have a game which allowed you to progress to the ending without making a decsion which gets you killed half way through. Not to mention the resource and budget required to support so many narrative threads.

The point about Autodialgue is not that it's much different, but that it is has the effect of making the player "feel" that they're not in control, even if the choices are ulimately illusory.  Autodialogue just feels bad.

[Someone With Mass]

yukon fire wrote...

Because they were on the cusp of something truly amazing and unseen throughout the industry, a trilogy of games from a company that trusted the player with partial control of the narrative. And despite their best efforts to sour the story and salt the earth what they accomplished with Mass Effects 1& 2 should never be forgotten, but when things got difficult for them they ripped away that narrative control for something easier for them. After that compromise it became easier and easier for them to justify that simpler and cheaper things were better This was beyond stupid, this was evil. Since they continue to lie to us they can never again be a good example, so they need to be a horrible warning.

And they have kept giving you that PARTIAL control throughout the entire trilogy, so I don't see what the problem is. 

They simply changed the way they did it a bit. For the better or for worse.

By the way, Mass Effect never had as a complex story-telling as you say it did.

If anything, ME1 was riddled with just as much plot conveniences and forced dialogues and moments as the rest of the games.

They just hid it a little better.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 13 août 2012 - 11:56 .

[flanny]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

I love people who add nothing to the discussion aside from saying "no" or "you're wrong."


Just goes to show.... ah, never mind.

when someone is at wrong as you there is no point showing how wrong you as everyone can see it for themselves 

[hostaman]

Baronesa wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

xxBabyMonkeyxx wrote...

Its an RPG, not an full on action game. You should be able to control what Shepard is saying. Not pick one or two things and have the conversation go in that direction. Maybe I want to say something different in the middle. Maybe I wanted to know more about this specific character. Nope, you get max three options to choose from and watch the conversation from there.

BW disagrees with you. Take a look at the official ME3 site. The term RPG cannot be found there. It is promoted as an action game with an interactive story. The OP thinks that interaction is the problem. That means he/she bought the wrong game.

BioWare is moving away from RPG, because RPG are a niche market and do not sell as well as more popular genres like action games... (Let's not ruin this line of thinking by talking about Skyrim, ok... it would break EA's premise)

So they simply shift towards a more "popular" genre and make games that say "And so do I" rather than keep going on what set BioWare apart from other companies. When RPG games seemed to be almost dead... Baldur's Gate cme in and gave new life to the genre... and now the company that for years was synonim with RPG... is moving away from RPG.


Anyone else finds it incredibly stupid?

Firstly your thesis seems to be based on just one game. Not really evidence of moving away. And secondly EA wouldn't go to the trouble of buying a developer well known for creating popular action-RPG's only to switch them into a CoD clone house. It makes no business sense.

I believe that BW will listen to fans who tell them that they don't like autodialogue, and that the ending was probably too arty (let's not discuss this yet again on this thread) and the next games will be barn stormers.  I just hope they dont listen to the haters, name callers, and collective idiots, who try to give this forum a bad name.

[wright1978]

Baronesa wrote...

BioWare is moving away from RPG, because RPG are a niche market and do not sell as well as more popular genres like action games... (Let's not ruin this line of thinking by talking about Skyrim, ok... it would break EA's premise)

So they simply shift towards a more "popular" genre and make games that say "And so do I" rather than keep going on what set BioWare apart from other companies. When RPG games seemed to be almost dead... Baldur's Gate cme in and gave new life to the genre... and now the company that for years was synonim with RPG... is moving away from RPG.


Anyone else finds it incredibly stupid?

I fear very soon we will see a Bioware game with a defined male protaganist, with defined looks, a defined LI, a defined back story, even more auto-dialogue. Stripping the player characterisation features are a big red line in the sand for me. If they keep their direction of travel i fortunately won't be playing their games to see that bleak future game. My fingers are crossed that they might at least backpedal a bit and drop anachor. Probably a futile hope though.

[Baronesa]

hostaman wrote...

Firstly your thesis seems to be based on just one game. Not really evidence of moving away. And secondly EA wouldn't go to the trouble of buying a developer well known for creating popular action-RPG's only to switch them into a CoD clone house. It makes no business sense.

I believe that BW will listen to fans who tell them that they don't like autodialogue, and that the ending was probably too arty (let's not discuss this yet again on this thread) and the next games will be barn stormers.  I just hope they dont listen to the haters, name callers, and collective idiots, who try to give this forum a bad name.

Not just one game... they started to trim down RPG elements since ME2 (and managed a somewhat good balance. Personally I'll always miss inventory management ala NWN), DA2 also limited some RPG options and slowly they have moved more towards action.

Check what AFW said and the link:

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Yes. Read BioWare’s Muzyka: Line Between RPGs, Shooters Blurring. It's a deliberate choise and that direction is company policy for about 3 years now. It doesn't surprise me that many players, including the OP, are confused. Obviously ME doesn't want to be an RPG anymore, but it looks like it wants to be an action game. All that is left is the "interactive story". The game mechanics don't do much anymore. At higher difficulty levels biotic and tech skills are useless. At lower difficulty levels it doesn't matter much either, because investing points in those skills doesn't have much effect. After all, it needs to be an action game and diminishing the importance of anything that smells like magic is what action game players want. Removing all RPG elements would not make sense, because there are still RPG fans out there. So ME leaves them for the time being, but makes them worthless by the scaling mechanism.

Modifié par Baronesa, 13 août 2012 - 12:00 .

[Podge 90]

Auto-dialogue is a step in the wrong direction. That's why I don't like it.

Instead of doing "more", Bioware did "less".

Modifié par Podge 90, 13 août 2012 - 11:59 .

[Jassu1979]

Auto-dialogue wrecks any sense of interactivity - it feels more like pressing a button on a talking toy and listening to its pre-programmed phrases than actually having a conversation.

I don't deny that some of these pre-programmed lines are wonderfully written: I greatly enjoyed drunk Tali and her "emerrgency induction porrt".

But the auto-dialogue nevertheless degraded the roleplaying aspect of ME3 even further, making us watch Shepard talking to people rather than having us actively participate in it.