62 réponses à ce sujet

[Hathur]

slimgrin wrote...

Hayllee wrote...

In my experience, there are just as many female nerds as there are male nerds.

Lol..no, there aren't. There are far more males on the fringe of society than women. Women conform far more than men do.

It's far more socially acceptable for males to be "nerds" than women - or at least more tolerated anyway. At least for men you're generally accepted by your fellow men if you're a nerd and they aren't ... for women however, "non-nerd" women tend to be more likely to look down quite harshly at us and berate or make us feel bad for being who we are. Men do this to us as well, but not as commonly or as openly anyway.

That said there are a considerable number of "nerdy" women, we just aren't as open about it usually as our male counterparts .. we tend to quietly keep it to ourselves due to the stygma it generates still from many people. Society still has very specific mindsets of how women should behave .. .and being "nerdy" does not fit in with that stupid mindset ... so many of us just keep to ourselves and stay quiet ... but that doesn't mean we're not abundant.

Though to be honest it can be hard to know for sure ... male "nerds" tend to seek each other out and congregate / associate with one another, share their interests... "nerdy" women don't do that as much due to the risk of being "discovered" ofrevealing ourselves  to the wrong type of people and being judged / treated in an undesireble way because of it.

We're often our own worst enemy in this regard 

Modifié par Hathur, 13 août 2012 - 02:12 .

[Fishy]

Addai67 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Women are more often attached to a partner. Being a 'couple' is like cryptonite against social in-conformity. I meet so many guys who say they don't want to be a woman. Trust me, in this case you do. Women get the free pass.

I don't understand this.  I was always a nerd, and I married a nerd.

Yeah . Like slim said .. and you actually give him reason.   Nerd woman tend to conform more easily.

[slimgrin]

greengoron89 wrote...

Because females get laid easier than males. trolololololo

Lol, point taken, maybe I'm feeling sorry for myself. But GODDAMN I was raised a nerd!!!

[Addai]

Suprez30 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Women are more often attached to a partner. Being a 'couple' is like cryptonite against social in-conformity. I meet so many guys who say they don't want to be a woman. Trust me, in this case you do. Women get the free pass.

I don't understand this.  I was always a nerd, and I married a nerd.

Yeah . Like slim said .. and you actually give him reason.   Nerd woman tend to conform more easily.

  That seems to me the opposite of what he's saying.  Neither explains why there would be more nerdy males than nerdy females- something I don't even believe.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

[Enmystic]

Hathur wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Hayllee wrote...

In my experience, there are just as many female nerds as there are male nerds.

Lol..no, there aren't. There are far more males on the fringe of society than women. Women conform far more than men do.

It's far more socially acceptable for males to be "nerds" than women - or at least more tolerated anyway. At least for men you're generally accepted by your fellow men if you're a nerd and they aren't ... for women however, "non-nerd" women tend to be more likely to look down quite harshly at us and berate or make us feel bad for being who we are. Men do this to us as well, but not as commonly or as openly anyway.

That said there are a considerable number of "nerdy" women, we just aren't as open about it usually as our male counterparts .. we tend to quietly keep it to ourselves due to the stygma it generates still from many people. Society still has very specific mindsets of how women should behave .. .and being "nerdy" does not fit in with that stupid mindset ... so many of us just keep to ourselves and stay quiet ... but that doesn't mean we're not abundant.

Though to be honest it can be hard to know for sure ... male "nerds" tend to seek each other out and congregate / associate with one another, share their interests... "nerdy" women don't do that as much due to the risk of being "discovered" ofrevealing ourselves  to the wrong type of people and being judged / treated in an undesireble way because of it.

We're often our own worst enemy in this regard 

This.

The bolded part I have experienced personally.  Nerdy/geeky girls are more common than some care to realize. 

[Gatt9]

Enmystic wrote...

Hathur wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Hayllee wrote...

In my experience, there are just as many female nerds as there are male nerds.

Lol..no, there aren't. There are far more males on the fringe of society than women. Women conform far more than men do.

It's far more socially acceptable for males to be "nerds" than women - or at least more tolerated anyway. At least for men you're generally accepted by your fellow men if you're a nerd and they aren't ... for women however, "non-nerd" women tend to be more likely to look down quite harshly at us and berate or make us feel bad for being who we are. Men do this to us as well, but not as commonly or as openly anyway.

That said there are a considerable number of "nerdy" women, we just aren't as open about it usually as our male counterparts .. we tend to quietly keep it to ourselves due to the stygma it generates still from many people. Society still has very specific mindsets of how women should behave .. .and being "nerdy" does not fit in with that stupid mindset ... so many of us just keep to ourselves and stay quiet ... but that doesn't mean we're not abundant.

Though to be honest it can be hard to know for sure ... male "nerds" tend to seek each other out and congregate / associate with one another, share their interests... "nerdy" women don't do that as much due to the risk of being "discovered" ofrevealing ourselves  to the wrong type of people and being judged / treated in an undesireble way because of it.

We're often our own worst enemy in this regard 

This.

The bolded part I have experienced personally.  Nerdy/geeky girls are more common than some care to realize. 

I agree with your agreement.  I learned long ago not to tell a woman I play video games,  because it almost always ends with being looked at with disgust.

As far as the topic itself goes...

First,  keep in mind that Men are supposed to be socially agressive,  and women can be socially passive.  What I mean is,  it's ok,  even considered cute,  for a woman to be shy.  A socially awkward woman can just assume the "Shy" role simply by not talking,  and no one thinks anything of it.  For a man,  that's considered a major liability.  A Man is expected to be assertive,  and a socially awkward man cannot fullfill that role.  So a socially awkward male is visible,  a socially awkward female is just "Shy".

Second,  women are generally discouraged from engaging in "Nerdy" pursuits,  through social engineering.  Young girls are encouraged to play with dolls,  not build treehouses.  They're encouraged to watch videos about princesses,  not robots.  When they get older,  they're stereotyped as being "Not good at math",  their peer-groups discourage interest in Sci-Fi or Fantasy.  So potentially Nerdy females are socially discouraged from pursuing their interests from birth.  It doesn't help any that most "Nerdy" pursuits are largely aimed at men:  Without strong heroines,  weepy women waiting to be rescued (Princess syndrome),  and the few women that are shown as main characters  are steroetypical well-endowed eye-candy.  Like Mass Effect 3,  where the camera angle suddenly drops to waist height the moment Miranda shows up,  never mind the outfits her and Jack wear.

Things are changing a bit,  thanks to artists like Joss Whedon,  but video games...video games still remain mired in the most ridiculously stereotypical portrayls of women.  Of which Bioware is recently most guilty,  Mass Effect 2 and 3 being some of the most shameful displays of juvenille depictions of women ever in gaming.  So is it really a surprise that women are not "Nerdy" in terms of gaming? 

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

This is why.

Not only is it not yet socially acceptable, the medium as a whole isn't very friendly with its portrayal of women.

[Addai]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

This is why.

Not only is it not yet socially acceptable, the medium as a whole isn't very friendly with its portrayal of women.

It's the same for TV and films.

[Giggles_Manically]

While there are more guys who are "nerdy" the number of female nerds is growing.

Hell my youngest sister is a HUGE Superman fangirl, watches Smallville, the DCAU Superman, and likes drawing him.
More scarily she is reading my copies of the Punisher Max series...yikes.

[Rockworm503]

Because Weird Al wasn't singing about his wife

[Carcharoth42]

I suspect the "not socially acceptable" idea might be a regional thing. When I was in high school, our cheerleader squad played D&D when they didn't have practice. During basketball games, I would bring my X-Box to the band room and a bunch of girls had a Halo 2 LAN party before the game started. This sort of thing was common and everyone in school knew. Maybe I just live in a weird area, but I never dealt with female nerds or gamers being unusual until I went to college.

[Rockworm503]

Carcharoth42 wrote...

I suspect the "not socially acceptable" idea might be a regional thing. When I was in high school, our cheerleader squad played D&D when they didn't have practice. During basketball games, I would bring my X-Box to the band room and a bunch of girls had a Halo 2 LAN party before the game started. This sort of thing was common and everyone in school knew. Maybe I just live in a weird area, but I never dealt with female nerds or gamers being unusual until I went to college.

Complete total oposite here.  I was more of an outcast than the gay kids.  You play video games you might as well beg the bullys to attack you.  Talking to a girl let alone playing with them was out of the question.  I knew my place.

[Rinor]

Sexism

[LoneWolf3905]

Society is weird like that. I don't mind women playing video games or liking si-fi, its just a hobby or interest like collecting Harley Davidson, making art out of a block of ice, or mountain clibing.

[Melra]

I don't know, but they extremely rare breed where I come from, usually when I meet the ones that are even from the same country, they're MMO players that've lost their lives to one of those games. Close to no social contact outside the game, no shower etc. Just like the male MMO addicts.

[Rockworm503]

J. Reezy wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Carcharoth42 wrote...

I suspect the "not socially acceptable" idea might be a regional thing. When I was in high school, our cheerleader squad played D&D when they didn't have practice. During basketball games, I would bring my X-Box to the band room and a bunch of girls had a Halo 2 LAN party before the game started. This sort of thing was common and everyone in school knew. Maybe I just live in a weird area, but I never dealt with female nerds or gamers being unusual until I went to college.

Complete total oposite here.  I was more of an outcast than the gay kids.  You play video games you might as well beg the bullys to attack you.  Talking to a girl let alone playing with them was out of the question.  I knew my place.

Very unfortunate

Didn't help to have ADD and too shy to talk to them even if I was socially acceptable.  That was one part of high school I never even glimpsed at.  Not that I minded all that much.  I preferred being left alond and you couldn't pay me to go to a school dance or stay longer than I had to.   Hell I skipped more than I showed up.  Thats the ADD working against me.  If I was in class all I could think about was playing a game and when I was skipping class I was too worried about things to enjoy it.

[frustratemyself]

I think it's about social conditioning and perceptions as others have said.

Little girls traditionally play with toys that are aimed at training them to be mothers one day. You get dolls that you have to feed and change, mini kitchens where you can make food and things like that. Girls have been conditioned to be in a position to be caring for other people which doesn't leave a lot of time for yourself and your own hobbies.

I think girls also learn to fit in more than boys. Fit in and don't rock the boat or you'll end up completely alone. In high school I played video games and read comics instead of sitting around planning how many kids I wanted to have and my friends thought I was an absolute freak. I was always the outsider even when part of a group.

I don't worry about what people think about it these days but I have friends that roll their eyes about me wasting so much time playing video games. Most of gamer friends are male and they are a pretty awesome bunch of people.

[Gotholhorakh]

In my experience males are far more likely (not ALWAYS, more likely) to not give a crap about what society thinks of them, more likely to need the socialization with/emotional interaction with/approval of exactly 0 (zero) people to feel happy about themselves, their lives and their interests. Also less likely to spend their time cultivating the worthless "benefit" of casual acquaintances, more likely to be (not ALWAYS, more likely to be) very highly intelligent or to want to apply any intelligence to domains we typically consider 'nerdy' - whichever of the two it is I don't know...

It has seemed to me that males are also more likely to be treated with physical violence by their peers (without anybody actively disapproving of that, including teachers, parents etc. btw) if they are intelligent and not compliant with the herd and end up in the - let's remember - hated, stinky pariah ridiculed-by-women fringe of subcultures that the word "nerd" represented before it became just people on tumblr posting pictures of themselves in those idiot-spectacles and pretending they like "anime".

Of course these are just thoughts on what I've noticed - I'd be interested to know whether other people's experience is similar and how wildly it differs from that.

The women who we see on BSN are proof that these are not rules for the whole of society, the phenomenon of real nerdhood does in fact span the sexes, and it's now that we are all a teeny weeny bit more equal that women feel they can be themselves rather than having to push their round intellect into a square hole to be a "proper girl" because proper girls are sociable and like girly stuff and all that useless nonsense - there are many, many very highly intelligent and/or nerdy women here - and I think lots of us represent the lunatic fringe of nerdhood from both genders. Doubtless there are also many many men out there who slavishly comply with everything they are told, are superficial halfwits who crave other people's attention, approval and presence like crack and are emotionally halfway between children and adults - who demonstrate that herd mentality now by pretending to be nerds when it is fashionable, having ridiculed nerds their whole lives until now, if they noticed them at all.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 13 août 2012 - 10:17 .

[Corker]

Again, what's a nerd? A sci-fi/fantasy fan? A techie geek? Do band nerds count in this context?

Carnegie Mellon University did a study on the retention of women in computer science majors. The results are published in Unlocking the Clubhouse, and - as a non-comp sci but-still-STEM person myself - I would hazard a guess that the findings apply outside of that discipline.

Spoilers: The young men tend to be out for total mastery of the subject, staying up long nights to code projects just to see if they can. The young women are interested in applying the technology to particular problems, and when they solve the problem, they go do something else. Over and over, in class and in culture, they are told that "real programmers" are the ones who eat, drink and sleep code. So you get kids with A averages in their classes dropping out because they're afraid they're not "really programmers."

Middle and high school teachers who use exclusively masculine gender-stereotyped examples in class projects and assignments don't help. Gendered social expectations don't help. The hostility with which a woman is greeted in many (but not all) 'nerd' forums sure as heck doesn't help. Being continually and perpetually singled out as some mysterious and alien "other" creature, with unknowable and probably capricious or at least degraded mental processes (see recent "Do women really think like that?" thread, or this XKCD comic) doesn't help.

Seriously, Google "women in" the nerdly field most interesting to you, read some of what comes up, and try not to instantly dismiss everything every woman says as overreaction and oversensitivity.

[Beocat]

frustratemyself wrote...

I think it's about social conditioning and perceptions as others have said.

Little girls traditionally play with toys that are aimed at training them to be mothers one day. You get dolls that you have to feed and change, mini kitchens where you can make food and things like that. Girls have been conditioned to be in a position to be caring for other people which doesn't leave a lot of time for yourself and your own hobbies.

I think girls also learn to fit in more than boys. Fit in and don't rock the boat or you'll end up completely alone. In high school I played video games and read comics instead of sitting around planning how many kids I wanted to have and my friends thought I was an absolute freak. I was always the outsider even when part of a group.

I don't worry about what people think about it these days but I have friends that roll their eyes about me wasting so much time playing video games. Most of gamer friends are male and they are a pretty awesome bunch of people.

Yeah, my parents tried that route (with the baby dolls and all) but it didn't work out too well.  I remember my one and only cabbage patch kid they bought me.  I held it in my hands for 5 minutes just staring at it.  My sister, two years older than I, was just cooing away at hers and I had no clue what to do with the thing.  I held it out to her and said, "You want twins?"  She took it and I was happy for it.  I was more of a bookish sort (even back then I had forced my mother to teach me to read before preschool) and loved playing outdoors and the atari at night.  I can't say I've changed much since then.  All the toys my parents gave me that were designed to train me to be a "maternal" kind of woman some day, I gave to my sister.  Obviously I saved up my allowance and bought my own video games for quite some time.  Eventually, I think my parents realized that I wasn't "girly" and gave in, though I still have to listen to them complain about my geeky qualities everytime they call me.  NOTE:  My SISTER complains the LOUDEST of them all! 
 
I've actually never recieved that kind of behavior from my own friends and from my classmates in school however, and they all knew I was a total geek.  I'd bring my Star Wars novels with me to class and read during class, gush on and on about anime, video games, and Star Trek, and no one there seemed to mind.  Even my geeky friends (some popular, some not popular) were never teased or bullied for their geekiness. 

[android654]

Huh, so no one has picked up on the obvious?

Sci-fi and Fantasy has an appeal to people who are socially inept. It allows them to escape the lack of fulfillment from social interactions. Women are more often being sought after, whether it's by men or other women, and are forced to engage socially. That allows them to know how to deal with social situations and people. They don't need to substitute their lack of social interaction with games, sci-fi movies, etc. Men are traditionally the ones who engage, and if they;re socially inept, they will recede from social situations and need to supplement the lack of interaction.

In other words, sci-fi and fantasy appeals to losers and there are more male losers than women.
Not complicated.

[termokanden]

ME_Fan wrote...

Probably because more guys are generally into computer technology than girls, and apparently tech whiz pretty much equals nerd. There's probably way more to it than that though but honestly, pfft, that's just life. Bear in mind though that gaming culture becomes more balanced in terms of gender every year.

Gamer != computer geek. Not anymore anyway. It's probably also not the same thing as a nerd, but I'm not sure how official the definitions are.

Anyway, female computer geeks make me swoon. Sadly I know very few of them.

@Android: Agree 100% with that explanation. Sadly I am one of those losers. I understand computers. I do NOT understand people.

Modifié par termokanden, 13 août 2012 - 04:47 .