252 réponses à ce sujet

[Omanisat]

BlueSandBristow wrote...

Machines don't think like us. They use logic, and when they see our flaws, they will think we are dangerous. Machines don't care about civilians and children. They don't feel emotion. That makes EDI more dangerous than any organic. She can't feel, and she can keep killing without remorse. Javik makes this very clear.

You're really going to quote Javik on the subject of remorseless killing? Pot, Kettle, Black, etc....

[BlueSandBristow]

LucasShark wrote...

BlueSandBristow wrote...

Machines don't think like us. They use logic, and when they see our flaws, they will think we are dangerous. Machines don't care about civilians and children. They don't feel emotion. That makes EDI more dangerous than any organic. She can't feel, and she can keep killing without remorse. Javik makes this very clear.

Wish you would...

ANd oh yes: Javik is such an expert on the psycology of machines and totally unbiased... I mean he only fought a war with the prothean's own machines so he's totally unbiased toward that subject right?

Bias or no bias, his reasoning is very deep and true, and has not been proved wrong.

[MegaSovereign]

It's a token sacrifice.

They didn't want to make Destroying the Reapers sound too easy.

I don't think she "deserves" death, though.

[Bill Casey]

Racist troll is racist...

[Omanisat]

BlueSandBristow wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

BlueSandBristow wrote...

Machines don't think like us. They use logic, and when they see our flaws, they will think we are dangerous. Machines don't care about civilians and children. They don't feel emotion. That makes EDI more dangerous than any organic. She can't feel, and she can keep killing without remorse. Javik makes this very clear.

Wish you would...

ANd oh yes: Javik is such an expert on the psycology of machines and totally unbiased... I mean he only fought a war with the prothean's own machines so he's totally unbiased toward that subject right?

Bias or no bias, his reasoning is very deep and true, and has not been proved wrong.

He hasn't been proven right either. 

[Mello]

If Bioware didn't cut EDI off then the destroy ending would have been a 'happy' ending in their eyes, and the fans/shepard doesn't deserve a happy ending now don't we?

[LucasShark]

BlueSandBristow wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

BlueSandBristow wrote...

Machines don't think like us. They use logic, and when they see our flaws, they will think we are dangerous. Machines don't care about civilians and children. They don't feel emotion. That makes EDI more dangerous than any organic. She can't feel, and she can keep killing without remorse. Javik makes this very clear.

Wish you would...

ANd oh yes: Javik is such an expert on the psycology of machines and totally unbiased... I mean he only fought a war with the prothean's own machines so he's totally unbiased toward that subject right?

Bias or no bias, his reasoning is very deep and true, and has not been proved wrong.

- Peace with geth - proven wrong right there
- Edi's willingness to sacrafice to save Joker, a notably flawed human - demonstrated wrong again
- A bias toward a conclusion precludes that the resulting conclusion cannot be "deep" as you put it, and an emotional, not a logical term - three strikes, farewell.

[Balek-Vriege]

No. Along with the Geth, AIs in general and possibly dooming the Galaxy long term, it's a sacrifice and a choice you're either willing or not willing to make. Just like the other two endings have sacrifices.

[Iakus]

Neither the geth nor EDI deserve destruction. It's a tacked-on tragedy just to have MOAR SADZ

[BlueSandBristow]

Bill Casey wrote...

Racist troll is racist...

How can you use race to describe machines? They are built for their creator's purpose. When a machine is no longer needed for it's purpose, why can't we shut it down? Machines are our creations and they can be very dangerous. EDI is designed for warfare purpose and she can be deadly if she revolt.

Modifié par BlueSandBristow, 13 août 2012 - 05:07 .

[LucasShark]

BlueSandBristow wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Racist troll is racist...

How can you use race to describe machines? They are built for their creator's purpose. When a machine is no longer needed for it's purpose, why can't we shut it down? Machines are our creations and they can be very dangerous. EDI is designed for warfare purpose and she can be deadly if she revolt.

The difference is "has a mind" and "doesn't have a mind", that is a pretty big distinction.

[Omanisat]

BlueSandBristow wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Racist troll is racist...

How can you use race to describe machines? They are built for their creator's purpose. When a machine is no longer needed for its purpose, why can't we shut it down? Machines are our creations and they can be very dangerous. EDI is designed for warfare purpose and she can be deadly if she revolt.

1:Organics have no purpose. By your reasoning they have less right to live than the machines, which do serve a function beyond living long enough to reproduce.

2: The same could be said of anything with the potential for violence. Asari, Salarians, Turian, all dangerous if they revolt, no?

Modifié par Omanisat, 13 août 2012 - 05:13 .

[Hackulator]

What does "deserve" have to do with anything?

[MegaSovereign]

^^

You can't apply organic morals to synthetic life.

Ironically, calling them victims of racism is even more racist than the OP.

[LucasShark]

MegaSovereign wrote...

^^

You can't apply organic morals to synthetic life.

Ironically, calling them victims of racism is even more racist than the OP.

Justify using one set of morals for one set of sentient life and one set for another set of sentient life?  Sounds "racist" to me.

[BlueSandBristow]

LucasShark wrote...

BlueSandBristow wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Racist troll is racist...

How can you use race to describe machines? They are built for their creator's purpose. When a machine is no longer needed for it's purpose, why can't we shut it down? Machines are our creations and they can be very dangerous. EDI is designed for warfare purpose and she can be deadly if she revolt.

The difference is "has a mind" and "doesn't have a mind", that is a pretty big distinction.

It's still a mind meant to suit it's creator's purpose.

Modifié par BlueSandBristow, 13 août 2012 - 05:18 .

[Kazztore]

Well she admitted to being willing to die to stop the reapers and so did the geth, so I didn't hesitate, but what deserve have to do with anything? And that's retarded OP, EDI repeatedly talked about how disgusted she was by the reapers and how much she doesn't want to be like them. I think you're trolling.

[BlueSandBristow]

Omanisat wrote...

BlueSandBristow wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Racist troll is racist...

How can you use race to describe machines? They are built for their creator's purpose. When a machine is no longer needed for its purpose, why can't we shut it down? Machines are our creations and they can be very dangerous. EDI is designed for warfare purpose and she can be deadly if she revolt.

1:Organics have no purpose. By your reasoning they have less right to live than the machines, which do serve a function beyond living long enough to reproduce.

2: The same could be said of anything with the potential for violence. Asari, Salarians, Turian, all dangerous if they revolt, no?

Machines don't know literature, art, or beauty. Everything is just code. There is no culture or morals.

[LucasShark]

BlueSandBristow wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

BlueSandBristow wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Racist troll is racist...

How can you use race to describe machines? They are built for their creator's purpose. When a machine is no longer needed for it's purpose, why can't we shut it down? Machines are our creations and they can be very dangerous. EDI is designed for warfare purpose and she can be deadly if she revolt.

The difference is "has a mind" and "doesn't have a mind", that is a pretty big distinction.

It's still a mind meant to suit it's creator's purpose.

As is ours: self preserve, grow, spawn, there, purpose fulfilled.  We learn beyond that purpose, so do the Geth, so did Edi.

[LucasShark]

BlueSandBristow wrote...

Omanisat wrote...

BlueSandBristow wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Racist troll is racist...

How can you use race to describe machines? They are built for their creator's purpose. When a machine is no longer needed for its purpose, why can't we shut it down? Machines are our creations and they can be very dangerous. EDI is designed for warfare purpose and she can be deadly if she revolt.

1:Organics have no purpose. By your reasoning they have less right to live than the machines, which do serve a function beyond living long enough to reproduce.

2: The same could be said of anything with the potential for violence. Asari, Salarians, Turian, all dangerous if they revolt, no?

Machines don't know literature, art, or beauty. Everything is just code. There is no culture or morals.

People say that to me because I'm an Athiest.

And read (hell watch) I robot some time.

[Hackulator]

BlueSandBristow wrote...

Omanisat wrote...

BlueSandBristow wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Racist troll is racist...

How can you use race to describe machines? They are built for their creator's purpose. When a machine is no longer needed for its purpose, why can't we shut it down? Machines are our creations and they can be very dangerous. EDI is designed for warfare purpose and she can be deadly if she revolt.

1:Organics have no purpose. By your reasoning they have less right to live than the machines, which do serve a function beyond living long enough to reproduce.

2: The same could be said of anything with the potential for violence. Asari, Salarians, Turian, all dangerous if they revolt, no?

Machines don't know literature, art, or beauty. Everything is just code. There is no culture or morals.

You cannot know what an awakened AI would be like, because no such thing exists. In the ME universe, such things exist. You can say "I don't believe this will ever happen", but Biotics and Mass Relays will never happen either, yet you do not deny their existence in the games.

[BlueSandBristow]

LucasShark wrote...

BlueSandBristow wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

BlueSandBristow wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Racist troll is racist...

How can you use race to describe machines? They are built for their creator's purpose. When a machine is no longer needed for it's purpose, why can't we shut it down? Machines are our creations and they can be very dangerous. EDI is designed for warfare purpose and she can be deadly if she revolt.

The difference is "has a mind" and "doesn't have a mind", that is a pretty big distinction.

It's still a mind meant to suit it's creator's purpose.

As is ours: self preserve, grow, spawn, there, purpose fulfilled.  We learn beyond that purpose, so do the Geth, so did Edi.

Javik said machines exist outside of nature. We are shaped by evolutions and the forces around us. Machines are immune to those forces. If they are immortal and have no purpose, there is nothing to keep them in balance. They will be deadly.

[DirtyPhoenix]

This should be a good banner for you..

... I should go..

[Balek-Vriege]

LucasShark wrote...

BlueSandBristow wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

BlueSandBristow wrote...

Machines don't think like us. They use logic, and when they see our flaws, they will think we are dangerous. Machines don't care about civilians and children. They don't feel emotion. That makes EDI more dangerous than any organic. She can't feel, and she can keep killing without remorse. Javik makes this very clear.

Wish you would...

ANd oh yes: Javik is such an expert on the psycology of machines and totally unbiased... I mean he only fought a war with the prothean's own machines so he's totally unbiased toward that subject right?

Bias or no bias, his reasoning is very deep and true, and has not been proved wrong.

- Peace with geth - proven wrong right there
- Edi's willingness to sacrafice to save Joker, a notably flawed human - demonstrated wrong again
- A bias toward a conclusion precludes that the resulting conclusion cannot be "deep" as you put it, and an emotional, not a logical term - three strikes, farewell.

Oversimplification. Both Javik and the Catalyst would rebut your first two points by asking you "Yes, but for how long?" The issue is that the peace never lasts and is a brief, temporary exception to the rule. The Catalyst should know since it was his job to broker peace between AIs and Organics for who knows how long.

It would be like a Casino owner (The Catalyst) who's seen countless gambles and the money to prove it saying:

"In the end, the house always wins"

Then some gambling noob coming along (Shepard) replying:

"You're totally wrong, I just gambled for my first time and won!!! The house doesn't always win meaning gambling is a good investment for me!"

The Casino owner laugh then says:

"Ok play a little bit more and we shall see how much of your winnings you have by the end of the night..."

Edit:

It doesn't really matter what we think.  Synthetic technological singularity leads to confrontation with and possibly the ultimate extinction of Organics in the Mass Effect universe.  That's pretty much set in stone for this universe.  It may not be true in reality (probably will be if human nature has anything to do with it), but it is in ME.

/Edit

MegaSovereign wrote...

^^

You can't apply organic morals to synthetic life.

Ironically, calling them victims of racism is even more racist than the OP.

Actually everyone's pretty much wrong here unless your Shepard character truly "hates" Synthetics. Or that somehow someone hates Organics because they think killing Synthetics is morally unjust. Hate has to drive someones actions and judgements in order to qualify as racism. What Synthetics in the destroy ending are more likely victims of is simple prejudice. They are, as a group, pre-judged to only be machines and therefore are not alive or truly sentient.

Of course prejudice may not even factor into it. Shepard might see it as a necessary evil compared to his/her other options.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 13 août 2012 - 05:27 .

[LucasShark]

BlueSandBristow wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

BlueSandBristow wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

BlueSandBristow wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Racist troll is racist...

How can you use race to describe machines? They are built for their creator's purpose. When a machine is no longer needed for it's purpose, why can't we shut it down? Machines are our creations and they can be very dangerous. EDI is designed for warfare purpose and she can be deadly if she revolt.

The difference is "has a mind" and "doesn't have a mind", that is a pretty big distinction.

It's still a mind meant to suit it's creator's purpose.

As is ours: self preserve, grow, spawn, there, purpose fulfilled.  We learn beyond that purpose, so do the Geth, so did Edi.

Javik said machines exist outside of nature. We are shaped by evolutions and the forces around us. Machines are immune to those forces. If they are immortal and have no purpose, there is nothing to keep them in balance. They will be deadly.

There you go with Javik = the word of all cosmos again, knock it off, you can't use an appeal to authority here.

Self-replicating machines wouldn't be shaped by evolution?  Evolution is simply change over time to suit external stimulai.

And WE ARE machines: chemical based machines but machines none the less.

And all you've said has been leveled at me because "I reject nature's order" for not having a god.