95 réponses à ce sujet

[AshirahTSparkle]

Miniditka77 wrote...

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

Might expain why it feels so underwhelming when I use it. Always felt that it wasn't killing stuff fast enough.. guess it's trigger speed related.

Oddly enough, the Phalanx is the closest competitor to the Mattock, as far as I'm concerned.  If you can't pull the trigger faster than 277rpm, you'll actually do more damage with the Phalanx X than the Mattock X.  And the Phalanx is lighter too.

Also, to some other people who are saying the Harrier needs to be at III or V to be better than the Mattock - the Harrier I does better DPS than the maximum possible DPS of the Mattock X.  As much as I like the Mattock, if I had the Harrier, I'd never use it again except maybe on a hybrid caster/combat class like the Justicar or the Turian Sentinel.

Hmm.. might try the Phalanx out. Been trying to find a weapon for my Shadow and I wanted an assault rifle (who doesn't want a badass omni blade on their rifles?). Tried the Mattock and it was meh... but since I have the Harrier at IV, it could be feasible on my Shadow now.

[Vakarian14]

lol @ Harrier = unstable

It's one of the most stablest AR out there.

[Annelos]

OniGanon wrote...

I suggest you reread my post. I said nothing about the Mattock being better than the Harrier, except in ammo count. I don't have a Harrier so I wouldn't much comment on its performance beyond what I can read in the numbers.(...)

You wrote that (out of the two) you'd use Mattock on Platinium/Gold, which automatically suggests that Mattock>Harrier on that diff lvl's according to you - or at least that's what is logical to assume, right?

It's also logical to discuss the weapon performance basing on something else than numbers (which are not even on Mattock's side...) and you're doing just that - you don't even have it unlocked and still you're trying to force your opinion on this matter.

OniGanon wrote...
As for the Mattock being bad for Gold and Platinum, that's complete rubbish. (...)

Use your own advice and reread what I wrote before.

Modifié par Annelos, 13 août 2012 - 04:24 .

[Geth Platforms]

Is not like I need my finger for anything sure mattock why not, for harrier is a close range AR

[Immortal Strife]

I've never used a stability mod on the harrier because is has perfect aim. So, I don't quite understand how op says it has bad recoil.  The Mattock although good does not compare to the Harrier, especially not a Harrier X.

The Harrier is likely the second most OP weapon in the game behind the Piranha and I would not be suprised if it got tweeked. I don't want it to get nerfed but I'm just saying.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 13 août 2012 - 04:39 .

[FlowCytometry]

Harrier is better for weapon based classes and is easier on the finger, but is much harder to upgrade and ammo can be much more an issue.

But you'd kinda expect that its better given its ammo issues and much higher weight. If it wasn't better than the Mattock overall but still weighed more and still required more ammo box trips then the gun wouldn't be very well balanced.

[geriq]

I can fire the Mattock pretty darn fast...fast enough to the point where I've been accused of purposely lagging a game (I play on Xbox), so fire rate has never been a deciding factor. It mostly comes down to weight for me. I use the Harrier (only at III) on non-power dependent classes (N7 Destroyer and Demolisher, Turian and Krogan classes, and it definitely changes how I approach a match, since I'll have to constantly be visiting ammo boxes. With the Mattock, on the other hand, I can still have a fairly high power recharge bonus, even up to 200%, depending on how that class is spec'ed out, and I don't need to constantly run around scrounging for ammo.

It also depends on how precise you want your weapon to be. It's been mentioned already, but when firing the Mattock as fast as you can, it's much less accurate than the Harrier on full auto. So the Harrier is much better at all ranges, whereas the Mattock loses accuracy and precision at longer ranges.

As far as not using the Mattock on higher difficulties, I agree that that's not a valid argument. I've had more points than my three teammates combined using the Mattock on Gold. So in this case, I'd say it's less about WHICH weapon you use, and more about HOW you use it and how you use it in combination with your loadout and powers.

[OniGanon]

Annelos wrote...

You wrote that (out of the two) you'd use Mattock on Platinium/Gold

Nope.

I said I'd use the Harrier on Silver.

I said the Harrier's ammo count is problematic on Gold and above.

I said the Mattock's ammo count on Gold and above is better than the Harrier's (and it is, considerably), but still not great.

Anything else you think I said in that post, I did not.

Annelos wrote...

Use your own advice and reread what I wrote before.

Okay.

Annelos wrote...

Mattock starts to feel UP on Gold unless you pack it with the best
consumables - taking it to Platinium is a bad idea for majority of a
classes.

As you didn't read correctly into my post, I'll acknowledge I may not have read correctly into yours. How was I supposed to interpret this?

Modifié par OniGanon, 13 août 2012 - 05:33 .

[EvilGeth]

I personally use the harrier, but tbh the recoil is not an issue on ANY gun if you are good at aiming

[Mgamerz]

I didn't have to get RSI to use the mattock (or raptor), I would use it more often. The predator is ok for some reason but I don't typically use it as my primary. Considering using a hotkey to support it cause I don't want to wear my wrist braces again.

Modifié par Mgamerz, 13 août 2012 - 05:29 .

[Annelos]

Immortal Strife wrote...
The Harrier is likely the second most OP weapon in the game behind the Piranha and I would not be suprised if it got tweeked. I don't want it to get nerfed but I'm just saying.

Harrier isn't OPed, it's power is balanced by the amount of ammunition you're carrying, thus people that excell at firying economy and headshots can do wonders with it and others are hardly able to deal half of the DPS they should be doing with it if they knew how to use it properly.

So, basically speaking, it's one of the UR weapons in the game that are actually balanced and good because they profit better players over weak ones (unlike Krysae for example).

If it's firepower was reduced, it would be prolly quickly dropped for some other AR as Harrier DPS values suffer from the necessity of visitng ammo boxes often and standing near to the Pylon does not really resolve the things.

Pylon reloads weapons from time to time and it reloads about 25 rounds for Harrier iirc which is not a lot on Platinium.

OniGanon wrote...
Nope.

I said I'd use the Harrier on Silver.

I said the Harrier's ammo count is problematic on Gold and above.

I said the Mattock's ammo count on Gold and above is better than the Harrier's (and it is, considerably), but still not great.

Anything else you think I said in that post, I did not.

You're right, I've mistakenly read "Mattock's isn't much better" as "Mattock isn't much better". Sorry about that.

OniGanon wrote...

Annelos wrote...

Mattock starts to feel UP on Gold unless you pack it with the best consumables - taking it to Platinium is a bad idea for majority of a classes.

As you didn't read correctly into my post, I'll acknowledge I may not have read correctly into yours. How was I supposed to interpret this?

I wrote that Mattock is usable on Gold but you have to boost it with consumables to make it's firepower acceptable - Harrier is perfectly usable w/o consumables on Gold.

When it comes to Platinium, Mattock is an inferior choice because as Uncommon weapon it's just UP and you're better with using your AR amps on Sabre/Harrier/Revenant instead of Mattock and if you think that's untrue, well...good luck with that.

Modifié par Annelos, 13 août 2012 - 06:11 .

[FlowCytometry]

Annelos wrote...

I wrote that Mattock is usable on Gold but you have to boost it with consumables to make it's firepower acceptable - Harrier is perfectly usable w/o consumables on Gold.

When it comes to Platinium, Mattock is an inferior choice because as Uncommon weapon it's just UP and you're better with using your AR amps on Sabre/Harrier/Revenant instead of Mattock and if you think that's untrue, well...good luck with that.

Their damage per shot is close enough, though, that the armor penalty isn't going to hit one or the other much more. The dps diff is largely w/ the user, not optimally. Besides, not everyone has the Harrier or above low ranks, but plenty have Mattock to X already, and technically running to ammo crates is a dps loss or tactical compromise that has to be weighted somehow, even if not concretely.

[Invellous]

Personally I do not use the Cerberus Harrier on any other character than my N7 Demolisher, due to the Cerberus Harrier having low reserve ammunition. The Mattock is not a bad Assault Rifle, though as others have said it is Semi-Automatic and extended use can make finger tried. It is ultimately you to you though. If you are having stability issues trying equipping a Stabilization Mod or do what do and equip the Precision Scope.

[BINO973]

Harrier I > Mattock X on any difficulty. The stability on the Harrier is actually really good due to an odd little glitch that makes it more stable when out of cover, and less so when in cover.

[Grammaton Dryad]

I LOVE the Mattock, and I've always rolled my eyes at people who say it's bad or that it hurts their fingers.

With that said, I tend to use my Harrier II a lot more often. I usually stick to an area where an ammo box is nearby so it eliminates the ammo issue most of the time.

A Mattock could definitely give a Harrier a run for its money, but in the end it'll mostly be what feels right to you. Some people just can't stand/use the Mattock; however, I can, and I still more often than not pick the Harrier for whatever reason. Mattock is a lot better than most people make it out to be though.

Go with what feels right to you personally, but it'll be hard to argue a Mattock against a high-level Harrier IMHO.

[OniGanon]

Annelos wrote...

When it comes to Platinium, Mattock is an inferior choice because as Uncommon weapon it's just UP and you're better with using your AR amps on Sabre/Harrier/Revenant instead of Mattock and if you think that's untrue, well...good luck with that.

The Mattock is one of the highest DPS weapons in the game. There really aren't many guns higher in that regard, and the Revenant and Sabre are not among them. The Revanent also does much less damage per shot (ie more affected by Armor) and has horrible accuracy and stability; the only thing it really has on the Mattock is its ridiculously generous ammo count and the psychological effect of making you feel like Rambo.

The only reason Mattock wouldn't be competitive is if you just can't click fast enough (which is no small thing- not everyone is going to be able to click at 450RPM).

[Annelos]

Ehh, not really OniGanon. Both Sabre and Revenant excell with characters that have the inner stability or ROF bonuses but most non heavily power-based class can do well with them if stability mod is included - Sabre is also terrific if you're good at going for headshots, it's just a real monster if you do.

Anyway, I'm done discussing this matter.

[redwinghata]

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

Miniditka77 wrote...

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

Might expain why it feels so underwhelming when I use it. Always felt that it wasn't killing stuff fast enough.. guess it's trigger speed related.

Oddly enough, the Phalanx is the closest competitor to the Mattock, as far as I'm concerned.  If you can't pull the trigger faster than 277rpm, you'll actually do more damage with the Phalanx X than the Mattock X.  And the Phalanx is lighter too.

Also, to some other people who are saying the Harrier needs to be at III or V to be better than the Mattock - the Harrier I does better DPS than the maximum possible DPS of the Mattock X.  As much as I like the Mattock, if I had the Harrier, I'd never use it again except maybe on a hybrid caster/combat class like the Justicar or the Turian Sentinel.

Hmm.. might try the Phalanx out. Been trying to find a weapon for my Shadow and I wanted an assault rifle (who doesn't want a badass omni blade on their rifles?). Tried the Mattock and it was meh... but since I have the Harrier at IV, it could be feasible on my Shadow now.

I use it on my shadow and it's a nail driver.  With AP, and ammo mods I'm able to electric slash almost constantly, and if anything gets too close I either chop it up, or hammer it down!  I can also use my shadow strike and bounce around the map pretty quick.  Also, I use it on gold all the time.  I think the harrier would bog my casting time down.  besides, I only have the harrier at 1 or 2, but my mattock is X.

[Major_Kong]

The mattock has more ammo capacity and is lighter. I can reliabley get 420+rpm with the mattock. On most gold games that I play I get 20 headshots before I get 50 assaultrifle kills. This usually occurs in wave 5 or 6. The secret to top level gold play is reliably and repeatedly getting headshots. ME3 weapons across the board are weak in comparison to the enemies we face. Headshots are necessary to stay ahead of the crowd. I can do this with the mattock, I can not do it with the Harrier.

While the harrier is everything that other players say for me it pales in comparison to the mattock.

[laudable11]

Grammaton Dryad wrote...

I LOVE the Mattock, and I've always rolled my eyes at people who say it's bad or that it hurts their fingers.

With that said, I tend to use my Harrier II a lot more often. I usually stick to an area where an ammo box is nearby so it eliminates the ammo issue most of the time.

A Mattock could definitely give a Harrier a run for its money, but in the end it'll mostly be what feels right to you. Some people just can't stand/use the Mattock; however, I can, and I still more often than not pick the Harrier for whatever reason. Mattock is a lot better than most people make it out to be though.

Go with what feels right to you personally, but it'll be hard to argue a Mattock against a high-level Harrier IMHO.

^
 this big time.

[Igipopp]

NotPotato wrote...

Igipopp wrote...

For the Destroyer harrier is much better. You can kill everything! You need to learn every ammobox location and actually you will use your thermal clips, especially in objective waves. And with a penetration mod and a stability mod it is a sniper without a scope. On a regulal good ol' soldier still very good. It was the first gun that mad gold playable with my soldier.

...And if you don't want all the bother of either guns on a Destroyer, just take the Revenant to utterly destroy anything without even looking at an ammo box during a wave. The sustained dps on that thing is already pretty damn high - as in it's higher than the Harrier's with all the mandatory ammo box runs - the Destroyer will increase it to the ridiculous level.
(that is, if you don't have a Typhoon yet; otherwise replace Revenant with Typhoon)

I tried but i couldn't hit an elephant with the revenant. Maybe i give an another try and make sure i slap a stabilizator module on it. I'd like to try the Thypoon (even after the nerf) but the store is trolling me...

[Igipopp]

laudable11 wrote...

Grammaton Dryad wrote...

I LOVE the Mattock, and I've always rolled my eyes at people who say it's bad or that it hurts their fingers.

With that said, I tend to use my Harrier II a lot more often. I usually stick to an area where an ammo box is nearby so it eliminates the ammo issue most of the time.

A Mattock could definitely give a Harrier a run for its money, but in the end it'll mostly be what feels right to you. Some people just can't stand/use the Mattock; however, I can, and I still more often than not pick the Harrier for whatever reason. Mattock is a lot better than most people make it out to be though.

Go with what feels right to you personally, but it'll be hard to argue a Mattock against a high-level Harrier IMHO.

^
 this big time.

  
I like your opinion. Very mature and reasonable (not sarcasm!!!!). 

[Asharad Hett]

Geth Platforms wrote...

 harrier is a close range AR

Wrong.  I sit on my perch in London and shoot reapers across the map.

[NotPotato]

Igipopp wrote...

NotPotato wrote...

Igipopp wrote...

For the Destroyer harrier is much better. You can kill everything! You need to learn every ammobox location and actually you will use your thermal clips, especially in objective waves. And with a penetration mod and a stability mod it is a sniper without a scope. On a regulal good ol' soldier still very good. It was the first gun that mad gold playable with my soldier.

...And if you don't want all the bother of either guns on a Destroyer, just take the Revenant to utterly destroy anything without even looking at an ammo box during a wave. The sustained dps on that thing is already pretty damn high - as in it's higher than the Harrier's with all the mandatory ammo box runs - the Destroyer will increase it to the ridiculous level.
(that is, if you don't have a Typhoon yet; otherwise replace Revenant with Typhoon)

I tried but i couldn't hit an elephant with the revenant. Maybe i give an another try and make sure i slap a stabilizator module on it. I'd like to try the Thypoon (even after the nerf) but the store is trolling me...

I specifically said "on a Destroyer" which implies some kind of accuracy boost. You can use it to great effect on Geth and Turians too.
Another alternative method is to use it as a close-in assault weapon on Batarians since they don't have a movement speed penalty; this means you can stagger just about anything until you falcon punch them. Try it, it feels awesome.
Btw. stabilizator module doesn't help with the accuracy (and I found the recoil manageable even with HM on)

Modifié par NotPotato, 14 août 2012 - 11:22 .

[St3v3H]

Harrier is the better weapon for sure but you can use the Mattock just fine during Silver matches