99 réponses à ce sujet

[KevTheGamer]

 It doesn't make sense. Maybe we will get more DLC with info on the keepers. 

[Genetic Destiny]

ATM it doesn't make sense. Another wierd thing is that the citadel is the catalyst, and the catalyst is the collective intelligence of all reapers. The crucible needs the catalyst to work.

Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions, but based on this, we need the reapers master AI to defeat the reapers. Its like asking your enemy for permission to kill, control, or merge with them.

[Forst1999]

Because the Keepers don't react to the Catalyst any longer. The Catalyst can tell them whatever it wants, they wont react. Controlling the Citadel through the Keepers was a very bad idea in retrospect, Mr. Catalyst.

Modifié par Forst1999, 13 août 2012 - 01:54 .

[KevTheGamer]

I hope the new DLC does give some answers and maybe make ME 3 make more sense there are lots of holes and we were promised infomration the keepers secret.

[Thaa_solon]

Because plot broken

[KevTheGamer]

Forst1999 wrote...

Because the Keepers don't react to the Catalyst any longer. The Catalyst can tell them whatever it wants, they wont react. Controlling the Citadel through the Keepers was a very bad idea in retrospect, Mr. Catalyst.

The catalyst is in part the citadel which the Keepers do respond to though . 

[F4H bandicoot]

He calls the citadel his home too. If he doesn't kbow how to use features of his own house. Like opening the doors, he's pretty retarded.

[Forst1999]

KevWestBeats.com wrote...

Forst1999 wrote...

Because the Keepers don't react to the Catalyst any longer. The Catalyst can tell them whatever it wants, they wont react. Controlling the Citadel through the Keepers was a very bad idea in retrospect, Mr. Catalyst.

The catalyst is in part the citadel which the Keepers do respond to though . 

Apparently whatever the Prothean scientists did severed his connection to them. That they still react to some of the Citadel's signals doesn't have to mean much, if they don't react to the ones that matter in this regard.

[Cerbrus operative]

 

[Jonata]

90% of questions like these about the Catalyst can be solved once you realize that the Catalyst is the collective consciousness of the Reapers. He was not there during the previous games, waiting for the Reapers, because he IS the Reapers.

He is like Legion, but instead of 1128 Geth programs, his Consensus contains the consciences of the entire Reaper Fleet.

Modifié par Jonata, 13 août 2012 - 02:58 .

[Creston918]

The pre-EC answer would have been: Space Magic!

The new answer is just: Writers changing their minds on stuff and retconning their own lore.

It's pretty poor as a writer to do that, but I guess that's considered "Artistic Vision" nowadays.

[zambot]

Jonata wrote...

90% of questions like these about the Catalyst can be solved once you realize that the Catalyst is the collective consciousness of the Reapers. He was not there during the previous games, waiting for the Reapers, because he IS the Reapers.

He is like Legion, but instead of 1128 Geth programs, his Consensus contains the consciences of the entire Reaper Fleet.

So you're saying that he did nto exist until the reapers all came into the galaxy from deep space, and "uploaded" (for lack of a better term) themselves to the Citadel?

Clearly the writers did not think of the Catalyst until after ME2 was complete, but your explanation makes a good deal of sense.

[tyrvas]

This thread NEEDS the ONE and ONLY................ VIGIL!

Shepard asks about the Citadel as a Relay....

Vigil: "The Reapers are careful to keep the greatest secrets of the Citadel hidden.
This is why they created a species of seemingly benign organic caretakers."

Vigil: "The keepers maintain the Citadels most basic functions. They enable any
species that discovers the Citadel to use it with out understanding it's technology."

Vigil: "Reliance of the keepers ensures no other species will ever discover the Citadel's true nature.
Not until the relay is activated and the Reapers invade"

later on in the conversation Shep & Vigil talk about the Prothean researchers...

Vigil: "When the researchers woke, they realized the Prothean species was doomed.
There were only a dozen individuals left, far too few to sustain a viable population."

Vigil: "Yet they vowed to find some way to stop the Reapers from returning.
A way to break the cycle forever. And they knew the keepers where the key."

Shepard asks, why is Saren trying to find the Conduit?

Vigil: "The Conduit gives him access to the Citadel and the keepers."

Vigil: "The keepers are controlled by the Citadel. Before each invasion a signal is
sent through the station compeling the keepers to activate the Citadel relay."

Vigil: "After decades of leverish study, the scientist discovered a way to alter this signal.
Using the Conduit, they gained access to the Citadel and made the modifications."

Vigil: "This time, when Sovereign sent the signal to the Citadel, the keepers ignored it.
The Reapers are trapped in dark space."

Shepard can now ask "How can they come back?"
Shepard: "Saren must have some plan to undo everything you did."

Vigil: "The one you call Saren will use the Conduit to bypass the Citadel's defences.
Once inside, he will transfer control of the station to Sovereign."

Vigil: "Sovereign will then override the Citadel's systems and manually open the relay.
And the cycle of extinction will begin again."

Shepard can now ask "Can you help me?"
Shepard: "Is there any way we can stop them?

Vigil: "There's a data file in my console. Take a copy when you go.
When you reach the Citadel's master control unit, upload it to the station."

Vigil: "It will corrupt the Citadel's security protocols and give temporary control over the station.
It might give you a chance against Sovereign."

Later on in the conversation... Shepard can ask about "Keepers"
Shepard: "So when the Reapers created the Citadel, they created the keepers aswell?"

Vigil: "A more likely scenario is that the keepers were one of the early harvested civilizations.
Perhaps the very first"

Vigil: "Perhaps they responded well to indoctrination or the Reapers simply bred them to be obedient.
In any case, they were left behind to operate and maintain the Citadel."

Vigil: "But the keepers are not longer directly controlled by Sovereign or its ilk.
They evolved so that they only respond to the signals emitted by the Citadel itself."

Vigil: "When the Protheans altered the Citadel's signals, they broke Sovereign's hold over the keepers.
Now they are completely harmless."

Shepard can now ask "It explains the Geth"
Shepard: "Sovereign must have realized organic races where difficult to control."

Vigil: "A likely hypothesis.The keepers evolved in an unanticipated direction.
Non-organic servants like the geth would be more predictable."



njoy

edit: fixed typos = everybody makes mistakes [even the Catalyst]

Modifié par tyrvas, 14 août 2012 - 02:43 .

[Adanu]

The catalyst doesn't actually 'inhabit' the Citadel. The catalyst is the collective intelligence of ALL reapers. It's unclear how this works yet.

[OdanUrr]

I provided a possible explanation for that some time ago. Don't know how likely it can be at this point.

Here's the story:
http://social.biowar.../index/11405288

[Memnon]

You just made me divide by zero ... it really hurt

[Mazebook]

tyrvas wrote...

This thread NEEDS the ONE and ONLY................ VIGIL!

Shepard asks about the Citadel as a Relay....

Vigil: "The Reapers are careful to keep the greatest secrets of the Citadel hidden.
This is why they created a species of seemingly benign organic caretakers."

Vigil: "The keepers maintain the Citadels most basic functions. They enable any
species that discovers the Citadel to use it with out understanding it's technology."

Vigil: "Reliance of the keepers ensures no other species will ever discover the Citadel's true nature.
Not until the relay is activated and the Reapers invade"

later on in the conversation Shep & Vigil talk about the Prothean researchers...

Vigil: "When the researchers woke, they realized the Prothean species was doomed.
There were only a dozen individuals left, far too few to sustain a viable population."

Vigil: "Yet they vowed to find someway to stop the Reapers from returning.
A way to break the cycle forever. And they knew the keepers where the key."

Shepard asks, why is Saren trying to find the Conduit?

Vigil: "The Conduit gives him access to the Citadel and the keepers."

Vigil: "The keepers are controlled by the Citadel. Before each invasion a signal is
sent through the station compeling the keepers to activate the Citadel relay."

Vigil: "After decades of leverish study, the scientist discovered a way to alter this signal.
Using the Conduit, they gained access to the Citadel and made the modifications."

Vigil: "This time, when Sovereign sent the signal to the Citadel, the keepers ignored it.
The Reapers are trapped in dark space."

thanks for finding these quotes. OP please read them and improve your conclusion.

[Memnon]

Tryvas - the point about the signal being altered and thus ignored by the Keepers doesn't make as much sense if there is an AI on site, able to analyze and troubleshoot issues. I mean - you would think an AI would know what the signal is supposed to look like, recognize the difference, and say "Hey! Some bastard changed this signal! Well let's just fix that ... "

[Mazebook]

Stornskar wrote...

Tryvas - the point about the signal being altered and thus ignored by the Keepers doesn't make as much sense if there is an AI on site, able to analyze and troubleshoot issues. I mean - you would think an AI would know what the signal is supposed to look like, recognize the difference, and say "Hey! Some bastard changed this signal! Well let's just fix that ... "

well he can´t. thats the whole point. He has only power by proxy.

[SentinelShepParagon]

tyrvas wrote...

This thread NEEDS the ONE and ONLY................ VIGIL!

Shepard asks about the Citadel as a Relay....

Vigil: "The Reapers are careful to keep the greatest secrets of the Citadel hidden.
This is why they created a species of seemingly benign organic caretakers."

Vigil: "The keepers maintain the Citadels most basic functions. They enable any
species that discovers the Citadel to use it with out understanding it's technology."

Vigil: "Reliance of the keepers ensures no other species will ever discover the Citadel's true nature.
Not until the relay is activated and the Reapers invade"

later on in the conversation Shep & Vigil talk about the Prothean researchers...

Vigil: "When the researchers woke, they realized the Prothean species was doomed.
There were only a dozen individuals left, far too few to sustain a viable population."

Vigil: "Yet they vowed to find someway to stop the Reapers from returning.
A way to break the cycle forever. And they knew the keepers where the key."

Shepard asks, why is Saren trying to find the Conduit?

Vigil: "The Conduit gives him access to the Citadel and the keepers."

Vigil: "The keepers are controlled by the Citadel. Before each invasion a signal is
sent through the station compeling the keepers to activate the Citadel relay."

Vigil: "After decades of leverish study, the scientist discovered a way to alter this signal.
Using the Conduit, they gained access to the Citadel and made the modifications."

Vigil: "This time, when Sovereign sent the signal to the Citadel, the keepers ignored it.
The Reapers are trapped in dark space."

This. The Protheans foiled the plan. These quotes show that it is clear that the Catalyst does not have complete control of the Citadel. He seems to only have control of his little chamber. That is why the keepers are needed. Why he can't control it all, I am not sure, but that is how it is. When the Protheans altered the keeper signal, they foiled the way the whole thing is supposed to work. Go Protheans!

[blueumi]

its the plot hole that will never be fixed star child just is all round bad writing and was just put in at the very end really bad

[Memnon]

SentinelShepParagon wrote...

This. The Protheans foiled the plan. These quotes show that it is clear that the Catalyst does not have complete control of the Citadel. He seems to only have control of his little chamber. That is why the keepers are needed. Why he can't control it all, I am not sure, but that is how it is. When the Protheans altered the keeper signal, they foiled the way the whole thing is supposed to work. Go Protheans!

If he is powerless, then how did he take control of the Reapers from his creators and how does he control them now?

[Mazebook]

Stornskar wrote...

SentinelShepParagon wrote...

This. The Protheans foiled the plan. These quotes show that it is clear that the Catalyst does not have complete control of the Citadel. He seems to only have control of his little chamber. That is why the keepers are needed. Why he can't control it all, I am not sure, but that is how it is. When the Protheans altered the keeper signal, they foiled the way the whole thing is supposed to work. Go Protheans!

If he is powerless, then how did he take control of the Reapers from his creators and how does he control them now?

1)It is unknown how he took control...there are endless possibilities how he could have done this...in my sig. is one possibility.

2)by programming them. by indoctrination. by constructing them this way.

3)Control has not to be direct. if you can change someones goals, you control them by proxy and they can remain independent otherwise.