49 réponses à ce sujet

[EricHVela]

The idea of "good" Blood Magic in this thread is that something beneficial for a good person or people was the result of using Blood Magic.

I have not read the novels. I request any examples where Blood Magic accomplished something good, especially in the novels. (I am aware that this might lead to novel spoilers for me. I accept that.)

At this time, I am ignoring any "bad" Blood Magic associated with an event. I am also ignoring alternative methods that might have been possible.

Arl Eamon was saved with the assistance of Blood Magic according to Dragon Age: Origins.

Could one consider the Wardens' ritual to be Blood Magic?

Hawke's father used Blood Magic to imprison demons, Darkspawn and Corypheus according to the Legacy DLC for the second Dragon Age.

My memory of Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening is sparse. Did anyone perform any "good" Blood Magic there?

How about your own characters? Have they performed "good" Blood Magic through the Dragon Age series of games? (Do not include fan fiction outside of the games.)

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 13 août 2012 - 01:40 .

[Wulfram]

Gascard can use blood magic to help Hawke to find Leandra

Merrill's blood magic cleanses the mirror shard. And allows her to get through that barrier. As well as helping Hawke kill various bad people.

Morrigan's dark ritual results in live warden.

[Lemina Ausa]

Jowan, if you freed him from eamon's prison by saying "Run. I never want to see you again" will end up helping villagers with blood magic on a special encounter (the encounter is bugged, so unless you're playing the PC version and either edit the game files to fix it or use the console to trigger the encounter, you won't see it).

[TEWR]

1) Curing Blight-tainted inanimate objects
2) Allows the Wardens to be who they are
3) Allows the Wardens to live longer then 30 years
4) Allows research into the powers of the Taint
5) Creates phylacteries.
6) Can heal withered crops
7) Can control grievous injuries
8) If used by people like Feynriel, mind control can save a woman from being raped by a group of bandits.

There are many good uses that blood magic has -- usually seen in non-game canon media forms. Mostly, it depends on the morality of the person using it, as the magic itself isn't inherently evil.

And one of the downsides people mention of it is that it can cause the Veil to rip open for demons to pass through. But really, that seems to be done through a specific part of blood magic, rather then blood magic on the whole.

[Eternal Phoenix]

My mage in Origins was a blood mage + arcane warrior but my story behind him was that he was so dedicated to destroying evil and the darkspawn that he didn't care what he had to do or become to achieve his goals. Additionally he did recognize the need for Templars and wasn't anti-templar. In fact I don't think any of my characters are. Although naturally he was a mage sympathizer.

So technically he learnt blood magic to further impower him and give him the strength to fight against evil and the blight. He was pretty badass as he wielded a greatsword and had some silver shining armor (in fact when Awakening's epilogue said that a group of Silver Knights were created in honor of The Warden Commander, I initially thought this was because of the silver armor I was wearing...it certainly went with the idea behind the order).

Still blood magic isn't good. Though it could be used for good things so a more accurate title should be, examples of blood magic being used for good.

[ObserverStatus]

Well, my mage in DA:O was a blood mage, but he was kind of a dick. Sacrificed the soul of a child so he could have sex with the desire demon. Guess any blood mage would, 'cuz they're evil.

[Arch1eviathan]

You save Arl Emens kid but at the cost of his wife and there is a better way to go about completing that quest where no one has to die.

No, drinking the blood of darkspawn is not blood magic.

don't know too much about hawks father or the events surrounding him.

the only time i've seen blood magic actually help someone was... I don't recall.

Modifié par Arch1eviathan, 13 août 2012 - 04:14 .

[dragonflight288]

Finn uses Dalish blood to reveal the lights of Arlathan. The blood didn't power the spell but the he says it would still be considered blood magic by the Chantry because it uses blood as a component.

Following that logic, the Grey Warden Joining is blood magic, (which also includes lyrium and you need mages to help prepare it.)

[TEWR]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Still blood magic isn't good.

Nor is it bad. It simply is.

[Big I]

When one of Hawke's companions is kidnapped and put into a coma, blood magic wakes them up.

The Dark Ritual.

The Joining.

[SeptimusMagistos]

Merrill uses it all the time: to break force fields, detect whether possession is taking place, and to cleanse demonic taint.

[Silfren]

Arch1eviathan wrote...

You save Arl Emens kid but at the cost of his wife and there is a better way to go about completing that quest where no one has to die.

No, drinking the blood of darkspawn is not blood magic.

don't know too much about hawks father or the events surrounding him.

the only time i've seen blood magic actually help someone was... I don't recall.

It isn't a better way, it's an alternative way, and one that leaves the entire village vulnerable to further attack by the demon.  If you are not meta-gaming, then from the Warden's perspective the option to travel to the Circle for help is a VERY risky endeavor, since you might come back to find the entire village wiped out down to the last man, woman, and child.  And this ignores the fact that some variations on the quest may be ones in which the Circle was annulled prior to coming to Redcliffe's aid, which means that you literally have either the option to kill a young boy or to save his life through the sacrifice of his mother.

So the "better" option you refer to is dubious at best, and if you look at the quest as a no-win scenario (read: one in which you view the game through the Warden's perspective and not as a player who already knows all potential outcomes), then blood magic IS the "best" option, as it doesn't involve leaving the village completely at the mercy of a demon while you go on two-day round trip, and offers an alternative to slaughtering an innocent boy.

Actually, the Joining IS considered blood magic, as I recall--you forget that it isn't just a matter of consuming darkspawn blood, but that magic is involved: recall that Duncan had to have Circle mages assist in preparing the ritual, rather than just having his recruits drink the blood and be done with it.  At the very least I'm fairly certain that it is acknowledged to be very much akin to blood magic if not precisely the same.

Modifié par Silfren, 13 août 2012 - 09:41 .

[Treacherous J Slither]

Silfren wrote...

Arch1eviathan wrote...

You save Arl Emens kid but at the cost of his wife and there is a better way to go about completing that quest where no one has to die.

No, drinking the blood of darkspawn is not blood magic.

don't know too much about hawks father or the events surrounding him.

the only time i've seen blood magic actually help someone was... I don't recall.

It isn't a better way, it's an alternative way, and one that leaves the entire village vulnerable to further attack by the demon.  If you are not meta-gaming, then from the Warden's perspective the option to travel to the Circle for help is a VERY risky endeavor, since you might come back to find the entire village wiped out down to the last man, woman, and child.  And this ignores the fact that some variations on the quest may be ones in which the Circle was annulled prior to coming to Redcliffe's aid, which means that you literally have either the option to kill a young boy or to save his life through the sacrifice of his mother.

So the "better" option you refer to is dubious at best, and if you look at the quest as a no-win scenario (read: one in which you view the game through the Warden's perspective and not as a player who already knows all potential outcomes), then blood magic IS the "best" option, as it doesn't involve leaving the village completely at the mercy of a demon while you go on two-day round trip, and offers an alternative to slaughtering an innocent boy.

Actually, the Joining IS considered blood magic, as I recall--you forget that it isn't just a matter of consuming darkspawn blood, but that magic is involved: recall that Duncan had to have Circle mages assist in preparing the ritual, rather than just having his recruits drink the blood and be done with it.  At the very least I'm fairly certain that it is acknowledged to be very much akin to blood magic if not precisely the same.

^Preach it sister!

[Eternal Phoenix]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Still blood magic isn't good.

Nor is it bad. It simply is.

You say it's neutral?

No. No matter what it's used for it costs the life of someone whether it be another person or the user. Eventually the user (if they desire more power) may seek to obtain the most powerful of spells which would result in the end of their life wherein the demon will take full control to wreak havoc in the physical realm.

Since blood magic is of the demons and demons are evil, that makes blood magic itself evil in nature.

Sloth, Violence, Pride, Lust and Hunger are not good things. You can't argue for the demons behind good and even if you tried to, your argument would fall flat on its face considering every demon encountered thus far seek to harm everything that is mortal.

[LobselVith8]

Elton John is dead wrote...

You say it's neutral?

No. No matter what it's used for it costs the life of someone whether it be another person or the user. Eventually the user (if they desire more power) may seek to obtain the most powerful of spells which would result in the end of their life wherein the demon will take full control to wreak havoc in the physical realm.

Finn using blood magic to locate the Eluvian didn't cost The Warden or his companions their lives.

Elton John is dead wrote...

Since blood magic is of the demons and demons are evil, that makes blood magic itself evil in nature.

Blood magic is said to have existed prior to the Fade. Also, there are other sources for learning blood magic.

Elton John is dead wrote...

Sloth, Violence, Pride, Lust and Hunger are not good things. You can't argue for the demons behind good and even if you tried to, your argument would fall flat on its face considering every demon encountered thus far seek to harm everything that is mortal.

Demons do not equal blood magic. In fact, summoning demons pertains to demonology.

[TEWR]

Elton John is dead wrote...

You say it's neutral?

No. No matter what it's used for it costs the life of someone whether it be another person or the user. Eventually the user (if they desire more power) may seek to obtain the most powerful of spells which would result in the end of their life wherein the demon will take full control to wreak havoc in the physical realm.

First off, there's absolutely no evidence to support the assertion that blood magic leads to an increase in Abominations simply by virtue of being a blood mage. If anything, there are only two ways being a blood mage would cause an Abomination to appear:

1) Arrogance and overconfidence cloud the Mage's judgement, wherein a Demon preys upon a moment of weakness and seizes it -- a theory I've tossed around before, but that deals more with the guile of a Demon and the mental fortitude and sense of the Mage then it does with blood magic itself.

2) Using a particular spell that causes the Veil to be torn, and then having a Demon come around full circle on you and forcibly possess you, making you share a mental apartment with it. The only upside is that you can declare him a dependent on your tax forms.

Secondly, if a Mage desires more power -- which can be seen in Mages that abstain from blood magic as well -- that's a mark against the Mage. Not the magic itself.

Since blood magic is of the demons and demons are evil, that makes blood magic itself evil in nature.

Blood magic is learned from Demons because they're the quickest source to learn it, not the only source. The arcane arts are eternal in the Fade and to its denizens -- as Torpor will state -- but there's sufficient evidence and alternate theories proposed in-game to suggest that one can learn blood magic elsewhere.

For example, history suggests and states that blood magic was taught to the Magisters from Dumat, the Dragon of Silence. Alternate theories exist that state the Elves of Arlathan knew it and taught it to the Magisters -- supported by how Merrill tells Master Ilen that the clan shouldn't be afraid of "the old ways", though whether she was specifically referring to blood magic is unknown.

In addition, Jowan learned blood magic from books. The Warden-Commander of Amaranthine can tell the Baroness -- whom he/she believes to simply be a powerful Mage, and as far as anyone knew that's all she was until later developments.

That suggests that you can learn blood magic from a Mage, not a Demon.

Next, the Chantry is known to have stamped out blood magic's practice. It's a given that they probably burned any and all tomes they could find on the subject that would allow one to learn it safely, thus leading to Demons being the quickest avenue to learn it. This doesn't mean they burned all the books in existence. Simply all those they could find.

If we were to believe the book claiming Andraste was a Mage was burned by the Chantry -- likely given the views in it that run contrary to Chantry dogma -- then book-burning would be well within their scope of things they'd do.

Finally, if we were to take the cut Wynne confrontation moment as canon despite the bugs it caused and the fact that it was scrapped for those reasons, the Wardens teach their Mages blood magic.

[Knight of Dane]

I also think you can optain the Blood Magic spec in Origins if you do Kolgrims offer while being a mage, you get it instead of reaver.
But not sure.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

There is nothing good about blood magic, it uses blood as fuel, that is not a good thing and in most cases the same thing can be accomplished by using more lyurim.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 14 août 2012 - 10:59 .

[DKJaigen]

Elton John is dead wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Still blood magic isn't good.

Nor is it bad. It simply is.

You say it's neutral?

No. No matter what it's used for it costs the life of someone whether it be another person or the user. Eventually the user (if they desire more power) may seek to obtain the most powerful of spells which would result in the end of their life wherein the demon will take full control to wreak havoc in the physical realm.

Since blood magic is of the demons and demons are evil, that makes blood magic itself evil in nature.

Sloth, Violence, Pride, Lust and Hunger are not good things. You can't argue for the demons behind good and even if you tried to, your argument would fall flat on its face considering every demon encountered thus far seek to harm everything that is mortal.

Sloth ,violence, pride , lust and hunger are all good things if taken in moderation. And Demons are not evil they simply are. They simply have a warped way of seeing the world. Power is never evil. a sword is not evil using the blood of others is not evil. My intensions makes bloodmagic evil or good. 

[DKJaigen]

DinoSteve wrote...

There is nothing good about blood magic, it uses blood as fuel, that is not a good thing and in most cases the same thing can be accomplished by using more lyurim.

was is so bad about using blood as a fuel. we can fireball enemies to death (one of the most pianfull ways to die) but we cannot use the blood of our enemies.

[Reznore57]

I think it's a grey area.

I wonder if it means that blood in itself holds magic , just like lyrium .I think it does.Meaning that life may comes from magic to a degree.

I'm sure there are ways to use it in a good manner , but to say it's merely a tool like lyrium might be , I don't think so.
There's the idea of sacrificing life to get empowered.
Even if you use your own blood , it's still almost like a self destruct attitude.

It's the kind of things that should be used with a lot of cautious , I'm not sure people in Thedas fully understand blood magic , well they don't fully understand magic either.

I'm not trying to make it sound evil , I don't think it's evil or good .
I remember Avernus , even if his ways were bad , his research have a lot of merits.

I think the chantry has the right idea to forbid it to the "public", thought if i were them i would encourage the better mages from the circles to make research about it.

[SeptimusMagistos]

DinoSteve wrote...

There is nothing good about blood magic, it uses blood as fuel, that is not a good thing and in most cases the same thing can be accomplished by using more lyurim.

Hey, sometimes I run out of mana and it's too soon to drink the next potion.

Seriously though, lyrium is rare and expensive and even if you can afford it you can't always guarantee you'll have enough at hand. Plus it comes wih nasty side effects of its own. It just makes sense to have a backup power supply.

[Lemina Ausa]

DinoSteve wrote...

There is nothing good about blood magic, it uses blood as fuel, that is not a good thing and in most cases the same thing can be accomplished by using more lyurim.

But but but.....if you have leukemia you could blood magik all those bad white blood cells away! Think of the possibilities!

[EricHVela]

DinoSteve wrote...

There is nothing good about blood magic, it uses blood as fuel, that is not a good thing and in most cases the same thing can be accomplished by using more lyurim.

ReggarBlane wrote...

At this time, I am ignoring any "bad" Blood Magic associated with an event. I am also ignoring alternative methods that might have been possible.

Don't forget that they were running out of time with Arl Eamon.