49 réponses à ce sujet

[Auintus]

DinoSteve wrote...

There is nothing good about blood magic, it uses blood as fuel, that is not a good thing and in most cases the same thing can be accomplished by using more lyurim.

Yes blood magic has dark implications and most of it's unique applications are evil, or at least questionable. However, blood provides much more use per volume than lyrium and can be used for much larger works(as the Imperium's work in Kirkwall points out.) Unfortunately, most anyone who would use it for benevolent purposes is to scared by the Chantry's teachings. So we are left with Tevinter's example of the uses of blood magic.

As always, it boils down to the intentions of the mage.

[LobselVith8]

DinoSteve wrote...

There is nothing good about blood magic, it uses blood as fuel, that is not a good thing and in most cases the same thing can be accomplished by using more lyrium.

I think creating the Grey Wardens through the Joining, and stopping the darkspawn menace, are good things. Also, mages who want to survive against the templars - who can nullify all magic except for blood magic - can use blood magic.

[Lasien]

Reznore57 wrote...

I think it's a grey area.

I wonder if it means that blood in itself holds magic , just like lyrium .I think it does.Meaning that life may comes from magic to a degree.

I'm sure there are ways to use it in a good manner , but to say it's merely a tool like lyrium might be , I don't think so.
There's the idea of sacrificing life to get empowered.
Even if you use your own blood , it's still almost like a self destruct attitude.

It's the kind of things that should be used with a lot of cautious , I'm not sure people in Thedas fully understand blood magic , well they don't fully understand magic either.

I'm not trying to make it sound evil , I don't think it's evil or good .
I remember Avernus , even if his ways were bad , his research have a lot of merits.

I think the chantry has the right idea to forbid it to the "public", thought if i were them i would encourage the better mages from the circles to make research about it.

Actually, I believe that the codex states that tevinter mages realized they could use their own blood as a secondary power source, then got power hungry, and made it into a twisted disipline. The codex also states that the veil grows thin where battle occurs as a result of the great amount of death. So it isn't neccesarily the blood magic that is the problem, it's more how it is used.

I would have liked to see blood magic having some spells you could learn that used your party's blood, but not have them be a requirement.

I'm pretty sure that the reason there were so many blood mages in kirkwall was because everyone was desperate, and that was the quickest, most destructive way to use magic.

[Emzamination]

A Bow can be used for good or bad but in the end it's still a dangerous weapon of destruction, the same can be said for blood magic, there is no "good" blood magic, it's all in how you use it.

[Dave of Canada]

Didn't read the first page but Avernus uses it to seal a tear in the Veil, though Templar have shown to be capable of performing exorcisms too thus the use of blood magic becomes questionable.

Emzamination wrote...

A Bow can be used for good or bad but in the end it's still a dangerous weapon of destruction, the same can be said for blood magic, there is no "good" blood magic, it's all in how you use it.

But bows cannot be used for more than just killing, nor does it attract unwanted supernatural influences.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 15 août 2012 - 08:43 .

[DKJaigen]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Didn't read the first page but Avernus uses it to seal a tear in the Veil, though Templar have shown to be capable of performing exorcisms too thus the use of blood magic becomes questionable.

Emzamination wrote...

A Bow can be used for good or bad but in the end it's still a dangerous weapon of destruction, the same can be said for blood magic, there is no "good" blood magic, it's all in how you use it.

But bows cannot be used for more than just killing, nor does it attract unwanted supernatural influences.

Every type of magic attracts unwanted guests so it really doesnt matter. And i really dont care about some people
squeamish nature regarding mind control. Whatever ability you have you use it in good conscience or you dont.

[Dave of Canada]

DKJaigen wrote...

Every type of magic attracts unwanted guests so it really doesnt matter.

Power attracts more and blood magic is power.

And i really dont care about some people squeamish nature regarding mind control.

Just cause you think it's irrelevant doesn't mean it isn't.

But let's not turn this into another mage/templar thread. 

[Lord Gremlin]

Arch1eviathan wrote...

You save Arl Emens kid but at the cost of his wife and there is a better way to go about completing that quest where no one has to die.

No, drinking the blood of darkspawn is not blood magic.

don't know too much about hawks father or the events surrounding him.

the only time i've seen blood magic actually help someone was... I don't recall.

Drinking blood of darkspawn always results in either ghoul or a corpse. No exceptions. Drinking blood of darkspawn that was affected by a blood magic ritual using blood of Archdemon has a chance to create a Warden.
Wardens use blood magic, so? It's not properly studied, but mostly because templars use it to track mages, if mages would be allowed to study it templars would be like helpless kittens.

[DKJaigen]

Dave of Canada wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Every type of magic attracts unwanted guests so it really doesnt matter.

Power attracts more and blood magic is power.

And i really dont care about some people squeamish nature regarding mind control.

Just cause you think it's irrelevant doesn't mean it isn't.

But let's not turn this into another mage/templar thread. 

You have a chart on how powerful blood magic is? if not i will just classify it as dangerous as normal magic. oh btw their are some scraps of lore indicating that blood magic is safer to use because it draws power from blood and not from the fade.

[Emzamination]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Didn't read the first page but Avernus uses it to seal a tear in the Veil, though Templar have shown to be capable of performing exorcisms too thus the use of blood magic becomes questionable.

Emzamination wrote...

A Bow can be used for good or bad but in the end it's still a dangerous weapon of destruction, the same can be said for blood magic, there is no "good" blood magic, it's all in how you use it.

But bows cannot be used for more than just killing, nor does it attract unwanted supernatural influences.

No arguing with that, all blood magic is evil but sometimes the motives of the person preforming the magic displays entirely different morals, like in the case of jowan sacrificing Isolde through so the warden could enter the fade to free connor.I'm not saying anything that led up to or even the act itself  had the slightest bit of good attributed to it but his heart at the moment was in the right place while the magic he was using was no doubt of the darkest arts.

[Pzykozis]

Any situation whereby blood magic isn't used to do anything evil.

Sealing the torn veil, research into the taint without using live subjects blah blah blah.

Bows are used to kill people, those people have families friends and all sorts of people who will want vengeance. cycle of hatred etc. blood magic is just a tool like a bow. A bow can be used to kill innocents just as blood magic can, the use and methods might differ but the outcome is the same.

[Emzamination]

Pzykozis wrote...

Any situation whereby blood magic isn't used to do anything evil.

Sealing the torn veil, research into the taint without using live subjects blah blah blah.

Bows are used to kill people, those people have families friends and all sorts of people who will want vengeance. cycle of hatred etc. blood magic is just a tool like a bow. A bow can be used to kill innocents just as blood magic can, the use and methods might differ but the outcome is the same.

Yes, this is the point I was trying to get across, polished better too

[dragonflight288]

Emzamination wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Didn't read the first page but Avernus uses it to seal a tear in the Veil, though Templar have shown to be capable of performing exorcisms too thus the use of blood magic becomes questionable.

Emzamination wrote...

A Bow can be used for good or bad but in the end it's still a dangerous weapon of destruction, the same can be said for blood magic, there is no "good" blood magic, it's all in how you use it.

But bows cannot be used for more than just killing, nor does it attract unwanted supernatural influences.

No arguing with that, all blood magic is evil but sometimes the motives of the person preforming the magic displays entirely different morals, like in the case of jowan sacrificing Isolde through so the warden could enter the fade to free connor.I'm not saying anything that led up to or even the act itself  had the slightest bit of good attributed to it but his heart at the moment was in the right place while the magic he was using was no doubt of the darkest arts.

I have to disagree with blood magic being evil. There is no proof in the games that a blood mage is going to be corrupted, or that blood magic itself is corrupting the mage.

If a law enforcement officer abuses his power and gets away with it, there's a good chance that law enforcement officer will do it again, and again, and again, feeling less and less guilt about it over time, to the point where it doesn't bother them anymore. That is a corrupting power the templar order has shown repeatedly over the past 900 years. Abuse of power without fear of reprisal or punishment. Eventually, it becomes expected, and then a divine right, to the religious fanatic.

Blood magic allows the mage to do many things, and those things in and of themselves can be very evil, such as taking away a person's free will by mind control. But blood magic itself, when used to fuel spells when out of mana, without taking any lifeforce from anyone but the caster, is no different than a tool.

A sword can be used to defend the people by the town guard. So too can it be used to kill the farmers on merchants on the roads by bandits. Does that mean people in Thedas should have all swords locked up and out of reach of everyone? Should the town guard lock up their weapons from recruits to keep them from using those swords, just in case they might abuse it?

[TEWR]

DinoSteve wrote...

There is nothing good about blood magic, it uses blood as fuel, that is not a good thing and in most cases the same thing can be accomplished by using more lyurim.

Just because blood is the fuel of the magic doesn't make it inherently evil. Transfusions require us to use our blood as fuel for the act itself. Does that make it inherently evil?

No, it doesn't. Considering the technological level of Thedas and the fact that blood banks don't exist, cutting your palm to get a little bit of blood isn't all that bad. The wound will heal, and until they come up with safer ways to extract blood that's pretty much the best course of action, so long as it's only the blood of the caster being used.

Considering the phylacteries the Circles use are blood magic and require blood to be used as the fuel of the spell, would they be considered inherently evil? No. They're actually necessary and serve a good purpose.

Thedas even has its own version of transfusions, of a sort. It's called Sacrifice, the effects made canon when Caladrius stated he would use its effects to keep himself alive. While it's more often then not used for malicious purposes, that does not negate the beneficial applications of it.

Given that most of the darker applications of blood magic involve manipulating the blood flow of enemies, then there's sufficient grounds to consider blood magic as being capable of controlling the blood flow of people that are seriously injured.

The magic itself isn't evil. It's neutral. It's neither good nor bad. The only morality that ever changes when blood magic is used is that of the caster, in that it all depends on how they use it.

Danarius and Caladrius? Evil Blood Mages, but the magic itself still isn't inherently evil.

Feynriel, Jowan, and Merrill? Good Blood Mages, but the magic itself still isn't inherently good.

This applies to everything. Mundane weapons, the other schools of magic, etc. Are they inherently dangerous? Yes, because all knowledge is dangerous. But are they inherently good or evil? Nope.

DKJaigen wrote...

Sloth ,violence, pride , lust and hunger are all good things if taken in moderation

Truer words were never spoken. 

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 15 août 2012 - 06:41 .

[Silfren]

[quote]DinoSteve wrote...

There is nothing good about blood magic, it uses blood as fuel, that is not a good thing and in most cases the same thing can be accomplished by using more lyurim. [/quote]

[/quote]

This whole "you can just use lyrium" crap ignores the reality that the Chantry has a chokehold on the lyrium trade, it usually takes not just more lyrium, but a boatload more lyrium, and when a person is in a hot situation, they don't exactly have the opportunity to seek out legal OR black market channels to get any lyrium, much less the appropriate quantity needed, to say nothing of the sheer cost it would take, lyrium only being the most expensive resource in the entire known world.

A mage who is in a dire situation isn't going to impress me overmuch with their highfalutin morals if using blood magic made the difference between life and death, or was the only means available by which to avert disaster.  Blood magic is a tool and nothing more.  I won't claim that intention and motivation mean nothing, because yes,
sometimes the means to an end are despicable and not to be lauded.  However, there are PLENTY of applications wherein blood magic is not evil, especially when the only blood used is that of the person casting the spell in the first place, or that of willing volunteers.  (Yeah, I know, how amazing is it to consider that some people might actually willingly offer up their blood in the name of the greater good?)

Modifié par Silfren, 15 août 2012 - 07:55 .

[esper]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Didn't read the first page but Avernus uses it to seal a tear in the Veil, though Templar have shown to be capable of performing exorcisms too thus the use of blood magic becomes questionable.

Emzamination wrote...

A Bow can be used for good or bad but in the end it's still a dangerous weapon of destruction, the same can be said for blood magic, there is no "good" blood magic, it's all in how you use it.

But bows cannot be used for more than just killing, nor does it attract unwanted supernatural influences.

A bow could be use to incacipating.
A well aimed shot could make a man permantly unable to walk , or unable to wield a sword arm - a fate some warriors would consider worse than death.

[Silfren]

esper wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Didn't read the first page but Avernus uses it to seal a tear in the Veil, though Templar have shown to be capable of performing exorcisms too thus the use of blood magic becomes questionable.

Emzamination wrote...

A Bow can be used for good or bad but in the end it's still a dangerous weapon of destruction, the same can be said for blood magic, there is no "good" blood magic, it's all in how you use it.

But bows cannot be used for more than just killing, nor does it attract unwanted supernatural influences.

A bow could be use to incacipating.
A well aimed shot could make a man permantly unable to walk , or unable to wield a sword arm - a fate some warriors would consider worse than death.

Eh.  The point was that a bow has one function.  It is a weapon of death.  It is not used to cook, to heal, to build houses, to sew clothing, etc.  Claiming "you can use it to incapacitate" is being disingenuous, especially since, just like a gun, if you aim a bow at someone and loose an arrow at them, you ALWAYS risk killing them, even if you only intended to wound or incapacitate. Ergo, a bow has one, and only one purpose, and that is to kill.

Modifié par Silfren, 15 août 2012 - 08:23 .

[esper]

Silfren wrote...

esper wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Didn't read the first page but Avernus uses it to seal a tear in the Veil, though Templar have shown to be capable of performing exorcisms too thus the use of blood magic becomes questionable.

Emzamination wrote...

A Bow can be used for good or bad but in the end it's still a dangerous weapon of destruction, the same can be said for blood magic, there is no "good" blood magic, it's all in how you use it.

But bows cannot be used for more than just killing, nor does it attract unwanted supernatural influences.

A bow could be use to incacipating.
A well aimed shot could make a man permantly unable to walk , or unable to wield a sword arm - a fate some warriors would consider worse than death.

Eh.  The point was that a bow has one function.  It is a weapon of death.  It is not used to cook, to heal, to build houses, to sew clothing, etc.  You're "you can use it to incapacitate" is being disingenuous.

Yes, I know.
But 'to shot' can mean many thing in itself.
Heck if you are real in a sadistic mood why not use the bowstring to strangle someone?
My point was, tool are tools... they hold no will of their own and thus cannot be evil. The only one evil is the one using them for evil or good deeds.
But I guess I am too tired to discuss this subject clearly right now.

[The Night Haunter]

Nizaris1 wrote...

If the Warden is a Blood Mage, he/she use Blood Magic to against the Blight

**above can become the player "canon"

There are many Warden Blood Mages as according to Duncan

Let's not get carried away here, he said it is possible for a Warden to use blood magic, as the Wardens exist seperate from Chantry and national law, however even among the Wardens it is hinted that blood magic is rare. (Fiona never uses blood magic and she was a very angsty melodramatic girl in the Calling, so if she didn't use it then I'm sure the majority of grey warden mages don't)

Yes Wardens have often used blood magic for good, but don't forget Avernus who totured people and gave them expiremental drugs for ****s and giggles. Not to mention he opened a frickin hole in the fade.

So to sum up Blood Magic is a tool. There is no such thing as an evil tool or a good tool, the tool is defined by it's user. Now since there is a ban on blood magic the most likely people to practice blood magic are those who would ill use it (the people who dont care about laws) so that adds to the negative feeling towards blood magic.giving it an unfair label as being evil.
Still, it should be controlled because it makes mages more powerful and thus can be misused quite easily.

[Rayndorn]

 I honestly see Blood Magic as a grey area, as with all magic. It depends on the intention of the mage. In dragon age origins, my elven mage was a spirit healer, a preserver of life. He supported his allies, and was merciful, just, and fair to everybody. He hated violence. Yet, when it came to magic, he had a mindset similar to Merrill. He admired his people's past and learnt the arts of a keeper, but realised that his people used the power of blood as well.

Blood magic is no different from other magic. Yes, it CAN be used to sacrifice others. It is risky, and foolish if used badly, but not set in stone as evil. What's the difference in boiling the blood of a foe and shooting a fireball to burn them alive?

Even so, my character used blood magic as last resort. He would only use it when there was no hope of preserving the party through usual means. And he NEVER supported blood magic in conversation. Uh uh. NEVER. I'm talking to you, Jowan.  

[TEWR]

ghostmessiah202 wrote...

Yes Wardens have often used blood magic for good, but don't forget Avernus who totured people and gave them expiremental drugs for ****s and giggles. Not to mention he opened a frickin hole in the fade.

The concoction the Warden drinks is hardly an experimental drug nor was it something he gave to his fellow Wardens for "****s and giggles". And Avernus' research into the Taint was a good thing, under the circumstances he and the other Wardens placed themselves in.

I can't condone the demon summoning he did, but I can condone the research into the Taint in an effort for him to have enough power to combat the Demonic invasion he and his acolytes created.

Although I'm reasonably sure that even had he abstained from summoning Demons, the Veil would've been torn anyway due to the massive blood that was spilled in battle at the Peak. As we all know, blood magic's spells that can rip the Veil aren't the only things that causes the Veil to thin. War does too.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 16 août 2012 - 08:24 .

[The Night Haunter]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

ghostmessiah202 wrote...

Yes Wardens have often used blood magic for good, but don't forget Avernus who totured people and gave them expiremental drugs for ****s and giggles. Not to mention he opened a frickin hole in the fade.

The concoction the Warden drinks is hardly an experimental drug nor was it something he gave to his fellow Wardens for "****s and giggles". And Avernus' research into the Taint was a good thing, under the circumstances he and the other Wardens placed themselves in.

I can't condone the demon summoning he did, but I can condone the research into the Taint in an effort for him to have enough power to combat the Demonic invasion he and his acolytes created.

Although I'm reasonably sure that even had he abstained from summoning Demons, the Veil would've been torn anyway due to the massive blood that was spilled in battle at the Peak. As we all know, blood magic's spells that can rip the Veil aren't the only things that causes the Veil to thin. War does too.

War does to a much lesser extent. Otherwise every battlefield on Thedas would have demons pouring out of them.

Also if you read his journal it mentions test subjects dying, so I'm not sure how you it is you think he doesn't give expiremental drugs to his 'test subjects'. The Warden gets the final version, but he mentions many test subjects who died to get that research to a usable stage.
So he's practically the DA version of Dr. Mengala.

[eye basher]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Merrill uses it all the time: to break force fields, detect whether possession is taking place, and to cleanse demonic taint.

Yes she also taught the demon was trying to help her out of the goodness of his heart.

[Rayndorn]

eye basher wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Merrill uses it all the time: to break force fields, detect whether possession is taking place, and to cleanse demonic taint.

Yes she also taught the demon was trying to help her out of the goodness of his heart.

Even so, she used the things it taught her for good goals. Yes, blood magic was not the best option, but it still helped on the long road.

[TEWR]

ghostmessiah202 wrote...

War does to a much lesser extent. Otherwise every battlefield on Thedas would have demons pouring out of them.

Also if you read his journal it mentions test subjects dying, so I'm not sure how you it is you think he doesn't give expiremental drugs to his 'test subjects'.

You must've misunderstood what Avernus' notes actually said then.

That's not due to experimental drugs. That's due to him using lightning magic to test the pain threshold of the Wardens in a method of unlocking the powers of the Taint. 

By his words, pain was literally the only way to unlock the powers of the Taint. However, you're saying he gave them drugs. He didn't. He used magic on them, which isn't a drug. It's painful as ****, but it's not a drug. Well, lyrium is given that it's magic in its raw form, but Avernus didn't use lyrium.

His only fault -- and we don't have all the facts of what he did -- is that he probably pushed them too far with his testing of the pain threshold using magic, thus causing them to die.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 16 août 2012 - 10:57 .