30 réponses à ce sujet

[brushyourteeth]

I mean, as in completely misdirected.

We've been told that DAIII will feature a continuation of the struggle between mages and templars. Things definitely seem to be heating themselves up to a boiling point, especially considering DAII's ending and epilogue info, as well as all the events that take place in the Asunder novel and the Dawn of the Seeker DVD.

it's practically all anyone is talking about lately. But we know that this is Bioware, and the chances are slim that we'll ever see a resolution to the Chantry/mage conflict - especially not one that satisfies every fan. It's almost too much to hope for that we'll be given the choice between eradicating the Chantry completely or getting the mages to shut up and go back to prison. Compromise is.... well, it always tends to make every party unhappy, and that doesn't appear to be the direction the franchise is leading us toward.

Isn't it possible that the Bioware developers are setting the stage for something entirely different to shape the narrative of DAIII? I certainly went into DAII expecting to only deal with thugs and Qunari. We have tons of other variables to consider when it comes to what will happen in the next game, especially since it will reportedly be spread over most of Thedas' map and not only Orlais. We have the Qunari, we have the Tevinter Imperium, we have an Orlesian civil war (or something like it). We have areas all over Thedas where the Veil is significantly weak and could tear open. We could even have another Blight, or the schemes of an awakened darkspawn or original blighted magister to death with.

Seriously, does anyone else feel like templars fighting mages may not be the real focus of DAII at all?

[the_one_54321]

Yes.

[jaikss]

Not so much.DAII,Asunder and DoTS have,as you say,all been pointing towards that seemingly inevitable mage war,shifting the focus to something else would completely waste the build up created for the war.

[Reznore57]

I think they want to explore different things.

We had grey wardens/templars/mages.

I think the templars/mages problem will be in DA3 , but it may not be the main focus.
We'll see ...

[Darth Death]

I dunno, but I hope the story is something bigger than petty templar vs mage squabble. That was exasperating... Bring back the blight.

[Arthur Cousland]

It's hard to imagine either the mages in power, or the status-quo restored and mages back in the circles. Something tells me that the current situation won't truly be resolved, and that somehow the Qunari will use the conflict to invade a weakened Theadas. In a future game, the hero will then fight the Qunari for freedom. Of course, I could be completely wrong...

[magodesky]

Given how little solid information the developers have provided about DA3 at this point, I think it would be disingenuous to suggest that anyone is being "duped."  I am expecting that DA3 will provide at least some resolution to the templar/mage conflict, though that resolution might not be the one people are expecting.

That said, it certainly wouldn't surprise me if the templar/mage war turned out to merely be setting the stage for some larger threat.  The mage situation has been at the forefront.  But by the end of DA2, we have a lot of conflicts that are ready to explode:

1) There's the impending threat of Qunari invasion, a situation which could only have worsened given the events in Act 2.
2) There's civil war in Orlais.
3) Though that hasn't stopped the possibility of a new Orlesian invasion of Ferelden, according to Alistair and Teagan's speculation in Act 3.  Apparently, some of the Orlesians think they should take back their lost colony.  Which may or may not be connected to the aforementioned civil war.
4) Flemeth and Morrigan are cleary preparing for some kind of confrontation.  And who knows what forces they'll bring in to help achieve their objectives?
5) The darkspawn may still be a threat, either in the form of a new Blight or whatever plans the Architect may have in motion.  And Stroud specifically makes note of some unnamed threat that requires urgent attention at the end of Act 2, which may or may not come up again.
6) There's speculation about Corypheus still being a threat.
7) There really aren't any good endings for Orzammar in Origins.  So there's a decent chance the dwarves are going to be in need of some serious help again by the time DA3 starts.

Given everything that's happening and the range of locations Bioware has said they'd like to include in DA3, I'm half expecting it might be like the Thedosian version of World War I, with Kirkwall merely being the match that lit the powder keg.

[andar91]

I don't think it's duping us; I think they'll tell the story they want to tell. Personally, I think the mage/templar stuff will be a large component of the upcoming conflict, but I doubt it will encompass it entirely since we already did that with DA2.

[brushyourteeth]

the_one_54321 wrote...
Yes.

Oh, you! 

magodesky wrote...

Given how little solid information the developers have provided about DA3 at this point, I think it would be disingenuous to suggest that anyone is being "duped." 

I assure you, I'm being quite genuine! 

As time goes on, I feel more and more like all this focus on the mage/chantry conflict (and the hints given at Pax) serve the twofold purpose of expanding the lore and setting us up for a giant left-turn in the next game. Of course that can't be the only, or even the main reason - those stories were told in the greatest part probably because the devs felt inspired to tell them - just can't shake the feeling that all this debate about who should win, what compromises should be achieved, who's more wrong than the next guy, etc. is going to be overshadowed by a much more urgent conflict.

[whykikyouwhy]

brushyourteeth wrote...
As time goes on, I feel more and more like all this focus on the mage/chantry conflict (and the hints given at Pax) serve the twofold purpose of expanding the lore and setting us up for a giant left-turn in the next game. Of course that can't be the only, or even the main reason - those stories were told in the greatest part probably because the devs felt inspired to tell them - just can't shake the feeling that all this debate about who should win, what compromises should be achieved, who's more wrong than the next guy, etc. is going to be overshadowed by a much more urgent conflict.

And if there is a left turn of sorts? Who's to say that if indeed there is a greater conflict, be it mortal in origin or from some gathering of darker forces, that the mage-templar struggle won't find some resolution? It could be that Thedas will need to decide between carrying on with their wars, or uniting against something perceived as the common enemy. We've seen a bit of that with the Blights, and it's never been a simple or easy matter to get people to lay aside their personal conflict to band together for the greater good.

It could be that the conflict itself is what opens the door for a greater threat - that the factions will grow desperate and seek questionable means to achieve their goals. 

While a nice clean tying up of loose ends, and a tidy declaration of a winner and a loser is often desired, things are seldom that cut and dry, even within history. There are always shades of gray. And I never got the impression that much within the Dragon Age-verse was about who wins and who loses, but rather about how the individuals face the journey and the struggle.

To paraphrase others, I don't think this is about being duped. The devs are building their world in layers and chapters and as such, they're showing us pieces at a time. But that doesn't necessarily constitute any effort to be misleading.

[deuce985]

You mean like a grander scheme among things?

If that's the case, then yes. I think DA3 will push several plots but will mainly focus on Templar and Mages. However, I do think they'll throw mystery in with an overlying "greater scheme". Perhaps hints at Flemeth and Morrigan's scheme. Flemeth defies much of the lore in DA and makes one wonder how she's so powerful. Like she's an Old God of sorts and even the Dalish awknowledge her in DA2.

To me, the war seems like a prime opportunity for a great evil to exploit the vulnerabilities of Thedas. I think this will force Mages and Templars to see past their differences. They will be forced to unite to fight the greatest threat Thedas ever seen.

Bioware seems to be hinting at this to me. IMO, I personally don't want to see them go this route because it's just recycling what Mass Effect did. While I liked it in ME, I don't want to see DA going down the same route...

Modifié par deuce985, 13 août 2012 - 09:45 .

[Kidd]

- Change is coming to the world. Many fear change, and will fight it with every fiber of their being. But sometimes change is what they need most. Sometimes, change is what sets them free.
- And is that what you want? To be free?
- What I want... is unimportant now. =(

^That totally does not refer to the mage/templar conflict. It's a big thing, but ultimately it is merely politic bickering between humans. When compared to the dimensions of things Morrigan and Flemeth seem to be up to, walking beyond the Fade, attaining inhumanity, raising god-children and cheating death... talking about rights seem somewhat unimportant.

Not that I dislike the mage/templar conflict, I actually love it. But I doubt it's what Morrigan was referring to. If her foreshadowing comes up in DA3, I doubt the rebellions will be much more than something another faction or force uses for their own needs.

[Korusus]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Isn't it possible that the Bioware developers are setting the stage for something entirely different to shape the narrative of DAIII?

God I hope so.  If I see one more fanatic Templar or one more irrationally behaving blood mage I'll scream.  That talking point has worn itself down to the nub.  Is there anyone, anyone at all that hasn't already come to a conclusion about where they stand on Chantry vs. Mages??   Anyone feel like they need a 40+ hour game to remain focused on that topic?  Anyone?  Anyone at all?

Is everyone cool with blood mages going back to being rare and misunderstood, and templars go back to being normal people who don't have irrational homicidal hatred for every mage they see?

[Fast Jimmy]

I tend to agree with others, I don't think you could say we've been "duped" by a game that isn't even officially announced yet.

That said, no, there can't be a definite winner of the Mage/Templar War. It will wind up being a scenario where the mages run free, the developers have said that was the point all along. When making Origins, they didn't like that there was almost no reason a mage would be outside the Tower, that they would have to keep inventing reasons or otherwise it would seem like an unending army of apostates were out in the world.

So they planned the revolt. People said "oooh, that's a cool concept!" so now they are running with it for two games as the central plot. But make no mistake - the Templars will not win. The devs wanted a reason for mages to be free-roaming in Thedas and that's what they'll get.

What will happen is that during the war, something Drastic will happen, such as a terrible battle that kills so many the veil is torn thin (like what happened with the Brecillian Forest according to the Oak Tree). This will allow some Big Bad to come through or otherwise influence the world. All of humanity, including Dwarves, Elves, Kossith and maybe even Darkspawn, will have to unite to defeat this threat (possibly the same dangerous, vague threat Morrigan warned about in Witch Hunt) and then the day will be saved.

Due to their heroism and the Chantry/Templar's devastated forces being unable to try enforce Tower law if they wanted to, mages are allowed to roam free or to return to the tower, to live a life with only mild Chantry influence. This sets the stage for any number of new stories in Thedas where mages can roam free.


I don't think that's really "duping" anyone, but it does seem very predictable. Sure, there might be some twists and turns along the way, but ultimately that's the formula they will be following. I'd bet every dime I have on it.

[Ghidorah14]

Considering the whole 'RISE TO POWER, BUILD AN ARMY, ETC" deal with DA2, I'm guessing it's a distinct possibility.

[Pzykozis]

Personally if theres a random big bad i'll be fairly disappointed.

Mage templar war offers a lot of interesting indirect politics and situations to come about. full of grey and goodness mindless evil is so bloody boring.

[R2s Muse]

My guess is that the next game will deal with the mage-templar war, but like others have said, that it will provide a backdrop for some other conflict or bigger bad to contend with. I think the Dragon Age games, even when dealing with epic struggles like the Blight, are still very character-driven stories. So, the new game won't be about moving mage-templar pieces around on a chess board, but something probably at a more personal level that you, the PC, have to do to "save the world." Then, I'm sure they'll do something clever that somehow wraps up the big bad and the mage-templar war all at the same time.

[Ianamus]

I think that the mage vs Templars conflict will continue to be a major theme, but I would be surprised if it was the only threat present in the game. The Darkspawn are still there and still dangerous, especially for the Dwarves, and the Qunari are still planning to invade. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of Dragon Age 3 the invasion has already started. Taking over the whole of Thedas would take a long time, so maybe by the end of the game some countries will have already been conquered by them?

[deuce985]

I just can't see the story being centered around mainly Orlais.

I can see Orlais, Qunari and Tevinter Imperium all playing a major part in DA3. It's important not to open too many plotlines but how can TI just sit by politically? It seems like the perfect opportunity for Black Divine to exploit White Divine's vulnerability. Whether they're directly involved or not, it's a prime opportunity to become the dominate verse in Thedas. Blood Mages practice in their society freely. Wouldn't they be hitting the Templars head-on since their ideology is so different? Black Divine supports the Mage cause and gives them a deal too good to pass up?

That would give us an opportunity to maybe explore Qunari society too. Who knows.

But I think no matter what happens, the war needs to be wrapped up in this game. If they want to set everything up for a "greater evil" in DA4, so be it. The worst thing Bioware can do in DA3, open too many plotlines, not focus on any enough and then give a massive anticlimactic ending on the current war...

DA2 fell victim to most of these problems...

Modifié par deuce985, 14 août 2012 - 07:58 .

[CarlSpackler]

jaikss wrote...

Not so much.DAII,Asunder and DoTS have,as you say,all been pointing towards that seemingly inevitable mage war,shifting the focus to something else would completely waste the build up created for the war.

Not neccessarily.  All of the build up could simply be to establish the backdrop for the story that transcends the mage-templar conflict, which IMHO would be pretty cool.  For example Gone With the Wind.  The American Civil War is the backdrop for the story, but not the focus of the story being told.

Modifié par CarlSpackler, 14 août 2012 - 08:03 .