545 réponses à ce sujet

[Ticonderoga117]

djspectre wrote...
We don't know that previous civilizations were ignorant of that info. Obviously SOMEONE knew of the Catalyst because the Protheans knew of it and the Prothean VI stated that the info about the Catalyst had been handed down to them. 

They thought it was JUST the Citadel, not the Reaper King himself.

It would be like telling me you wanted to make a program for a computer. I program it for Windows, and then you try to use it on a MAC. That sh** won't work then.

Now while that's not exactly the case here, are you telling me that we can easily reprogram a super-AI by accident?
Please, that's stupid.

[djspectre]

[quote]Ticonderoga117 wrote...

[quote]maaaze wrote...
Please, offer an explanation as to how these previous cycles managed to do research on a place they did not have access to, and how they managed to change a AI they didnt even know to look for. [/quote]

They changed the citadel. the citadel is a part of the catalyst. They only have to know the citadel in order to change the catalyst.

All other cycles had access to the citadel before the reaper invasion. Maybe they studied it more. found out of it´s capabilities . opened and closed the arms for researched. Maybe some Civilizations found the crucible plans before the invasions. So they studied the citadel in secrecy. there a thousands of possible scenarios.
[/quote]



[/quote]
[/quote]

It might not have, but there might have been enough time to get previously created scans and blueprints of the citadel off the station during the initial Reaper invasion. 

Consider that the Protheans managed to create (or learn the purpose of) the Relay monument before sealing off Ilos to build the other end of the relay. 

Modifié par djspectre, 15 août 2012 - 12:34 .

[Mazebook]

Fedi.St wrote...

yeah but the question remains?

how they found out how to intergrate it with the technology of a space station nobody knows how it really works?

...in this cycle! other cycles, different story. 

[Fedi.St]

if the other cycles understood keepers etc they should have predicted reaper invasion.

[BigBadMammogram]

[quote]djspectre wrote...

[quote]Ticonderoga117 wrote...

[quote]maaaze wrote...
Please, offer an explanation as to how these previous cycles managed to do research on a place they did not have access to, and how they managed to change a AI they didnt even know to look for. [/quote]

They changed the citadel. the citadel is a part of the catalyst. They only have to know the citadel in order to change the catalyst.

All other cycles had access to the citadel before the reaper invasion. Maybe they studied it more. found out of it´s capabilities . opened and closed the arms for researched. Maybe some Civilizations found the crucible plans before the invasions. So they studied the citadel in secrecy. there a thousands of possible scenarios.
[/quote]

And thus find out about the Reapers, close the Citadel and disable it's relay, saving the Galaxy for all time against the Reapers.

Oh wait. That DIDN'T HAPPEN.

[/quote]

It might not have, but there might have been enough time to get previously created scans and blueprints of the citadel off the station during the initial Reaper invasion. 

Consider that the Protheans managed to create (or learn the purpose of) the Relay monument before sealing off Ilos to build the other end of the relay. 

[/quote]

And yet they still didnt know about the catalyst. And from everything the game shows us, they were the first ones to figure that out. So we are the first cycle to figure out what the catalyst is, and we somehow manage to reprogram it before we even know it exists. Brilliant writing.

[Ticonderoga117]

djspectre wrote...
It might not have, but there might have been enough time to get previously created scans and blueprints of the citadel off the station during the initial Reaper invasion. 

Consider that the Protheans managed to create (or learn the purpose of) the Relay monument before sealing off Ilos to build the other end of the relay. 

The Reaper invasion for every cycle but ours opens with ALL the Reapers transiting to the Citadel for a "LOL, Surprise Zerg Rush!" attack. The Citadel then falls like a house of cards.

The Protheans could've had that relay on the Citadel for years before the invasion because it was part of a project to start making relays themselves. The Ilos team simply got lucky with that happenstance.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

I want to know why the crucible fits so easily into the citadel?

Who modified the citadel so the crucible would fit.

If anyone says the reapers or catalyst, why would they do that when it could possibly mean there destruction?

Modifié par DinoSteve, 15 août 2012 - 12:33 .

[Mazebook]

Fedi.St wrote...

if the other cycles understood keepers etc they should have predicted reaper invasion.

even when they did.
maybe their firepower was lacking.
they could finish the crucible.
They did not know of indoctrination.
..who knows...

there are thousands of possible explonations on how they knew of the reapers and added crucial parts to the crucible but could not prevent their own destruction by the reapers.

[BigBadMammogram]

maaaze wrote...

Fedi.St wrote...

yeah but the question remains?

how they found out how to intergrate it with the technology of a space station nobody knows how it really works?

...in this cycle! other cycles, different story. 

Right. A different story that was never told. Or hinted at. Hell, it was hinted that all of the previous cycles followed the same path. Reapers show up, everyone panics, reapers take over the citadel, shut off the relays, and systematically destroy every system. That story was told. Yours was not.

There's a difference between reading between the lines to figure out details, and completely rewriting a story to get it to make sense. You're rewriting the story, while everyone else is willing to admit that the story bioware presented us just sucks.

[Fedi.St]

speculation only. but as it seems our scientists didn't know what they build. nobody understands what this is.

only reapers could . and that is what reaaly bothering me. although could bad writing as well. or I am just an idiot i don't know.

C mon bioware release EC Version2 to explain me

[BigBadMammogram]

Fedi.St wrote...

speculation only. but as it seems our scientists didn't know what they build. nobody understands what this is.

only reapers could . and that is what reaaly bothering me. although could bad writing as well. or I am just an idiot i don't know.

C mon bioware release EC Version2 to explain me

It would be better if they just sold the rights and let someone else remake it.

[Mazebook]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

djspectre wrote...
It might not have, but there might have been enough time to get previously created scans and blueprints of the citadel off the station during the initial Reaper invasion. 

Consider that the Protheans managed to create (or learn the purpose of) the Relay monument before sealing off Ilos to build the other end of the relay. 

The Reaper invasion for every cycle but ours opens with ALL the Reapers transiting to the Citadel for a "LOL, Surprise Zerg Rush!" attack. The Citadel then falls like a house of cards.

The Protheans could've had that relay on the Citadel for years before the invasion because it was part of a project to start making relays themselves. The Ilos team simply got lucky with that happenstance.

How do you know that? Many Cycles could have done simliar things like the protheans and were able to warn the next cycle. I even think that this is pretty likely.

[Mazebook]

Fedi.St wrote...

speculation only. but as it seems our scientists didn't know what they build. nobody understands what this is.

only reapers could . and that is what reaaly bothering me. although could bad writing as well. or I am just an idiot i don't know.

C mon bioware release EC Version2 to explain me

They did know...they had plans...they only did not fully understood it. as with many advanced technology. and the relay themselfs.

[djspectre]

[quote]
[quote]BigBadMammogram wrote...

[quote]djspectre wrote...

[quote]Ticonderoga117 wrote...

[quote]maaaze wrote...
Please, offer an explanation as to how these previous cycles managed to do research on a place they did not have access to, and how they managed to change a AI they didnt even know to look for. [/quote]

They changed the citadel. the citadel is a part of the catalyst. They only have to know the citadel in order to change the catalyst.

All other cycles had access to the citadel before the reaper invasion. Maybe they studied it more. found out of it´s capabilities . opened and closed the arms for researched. Maybe some Civilizations found the crucible plans before the invasions. So they studied the citadel in secrecy. there a thousands of possible scenarios.
[/quote]


And thus find out about the Reapers, close the Citadel and disable it's relay, saving the Galaxy for all time against the Reapers.

Oh wait. That DIDN'T HAPPEN.

[/quote]

It might not have, but there might have been enough time to get previously created scans and blueprints of the citadel off the station during the initial Reaper invasion. 

Consider that the Protheans managed to create (or learn the purpose of) the Relay monument before sealing off Ilos to build the other end of the relay. 

[/quote]

And yet they still didnt know about the catalyst. And from everything the game shows us, they were the first ones to figure that out. So we are the first cycle to figure out what the catalyst is, and we somehow manage to reprogram it before we even know it exists. Brilliant writing. [/quote]
[/quote]

They DID know about the catalyst, they knew it was the Citadel. The Prothean VI even states that verbatim in the Cerberus base. 

Modifié par djspectre, 15 août 2012 - 12:36 .

[Ticonderoga117]

maaaze wrote...
How do you know that? Many Cycles could have done simliar things like the protheans and were able to warn the next cycle. I even think that this is pretty likely.

Know what? How the Reapers begin the invasion? Because that's the whole point of ME1 and the big reveal. The Citadel is a trap.

[Ticonderoga117]

maaaze wrote...

Fedi.St wrote...

if the other cycles understood keepers etc they should have predicted reaper invasion.

even when they did.
maybe their firepower was lacking.
they could finish the crucible.
They did not know of indoctrination.
..who knows...

there are thousands of possible explonations on how they knew of the reapers and added crucial parts to the crucible but could not prevent their own destruction by the reapers.

No, they would've shut down the Citadel Relay, and leave the Reapers stuck in Dark Space if they found out these things about the Citadel.

But they didn't.

[djspectre]

BigBadMammogram wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Fedi.St wrote...

yeah but the question remains?

how they found out how to intergrate it with the technology of a space station nobody knows how it really works?

...in this cycle! other cycles, different story. 

Right. A different story that was never told. Or hinted at. Hell, it was hinted that all of the previous cycles followed the same path. Reapers show up, everyone panics, reapers take over the citadel, shut off the relays, and systematically destroy every system. That story was told. Yours was not.

There's a difference between reading between the lines to figure out details, and completely rewriting a story to get it to make sense. You're rewriting the story, while everyone else is willing to admit that the story bioware presented us just sucks.

The story was told from the human perspective and those of the people Shepard encountered. Biowares story didn't suck so much as it worked perfectly. All the characters ASSUMED everything had worked exactly as it did with the Protheans, but that doesn't mean thats what ACTUALLY happened. 

It's conjecture from the characters because they weren't around millions of years ago or even 50,000 years ago, not even asari. 

[BigBadMammogram]

[quote]djspectre wrote...

[quote]BigBadMammogram wrote...

[quote]djspectre wrote...

[quote]Ticonderoga117 wrote...

[quote]maaaze wrote...
Please, offer an explanation as to how these previous cycles managed to do research on a place they did not have access to, and how they managed to change a AI they didnt even know to look for. [/quote]

They changed the citadel. the citadel is a part of the catalyst. They only have to know the citadel in order to change the catalyst.

All other cycles had access to the citadel before the reaper invasion. Maybe they studied it more. found out of it´s capabilities . opened and closed the arms for researched. Maybe some Civilizations found the crucible plans before the invasions. So they studied the citadel in secrecy. there a thousands of possible scenarios.
[/quote]


And thus find out about the Reapers, close the Citadel and disable it's relay, saving the Galaxy for all time against the Reapers.

Oh wait. That DIDN'T HAPPEN.

[/quote]

It might not have, but there might have been enough time to get previously created scans and blueprints of the citadel off the station during the initial Reaper invasion. 

Consider that the Protheans managed to create (or learn the purpose of) the Relay monument before sealing off Ilos to build the other end of the relay. 

[/quote]

And yet they still didnt know about the catalyst. And from everything the game shows us, they were the first ones to figure that out. So we are the first cycle to figure out what the catalyst is, and we somehow manage to reprogram it before we even know it exists. Brilliant writing. [/quote]
[/quote]

They DID know about the catalyst, they knew it was the Citadel. The Prothean VI even states that verbatim in the Cerberus base. 

[/quote]

He mentions the name, but gives us no details. If he actually knew anything about the catalyst, you would think he would have said something. But, I guess giving information about the leader of the reapers really isnt that important. My guess is he knew the name, but knew nothing about starbrat simply because of bad writing.

Assuming everything is just bad writing really does make it simple to understand.

[Mazebook]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Fedi.St wrote...

if the other cycles understood keepers etc they should have predicted reaper invasion.

even when they did.
maybe their firepower was lacking.
they could finish the crucible.
They did not know of indoctrination.
..who knows...

there are thousands of possible explonations on how they knew of the reapers and added crucial parts to the crucible but could not prevent their own destruction by the reapers.

No, they would've shut down the Citadel Relay, and leave the Reapers stuck in Dark Space if they found out these things about the Citadel.

But they didn't.

and we all know that this prevents reapers from invading?!

[djspectre]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Fedi.St wrote...

if the other cycles understood keepers etc they should have predicted reaper invasion.

even when they did.
maybe their firepower was lacking.
they could finish the crucible.
They did not know of indoctrination.
..who knows...

there are thousands of possible explonations on how they knew of the reapers and added crucial parts to the crucible but could not prevent their own destruction by the reapers.

No, they would've shut down the Citadel Relay, and leave the Reapers stuck in Dark Space if they found out these things about the Citadel.

But they didn't.

Yes, but we don't know why they didnt. Javik states that their bunker plan to preserve their species was ratted out by a betrayer (likely someone who was indoctrinated) just as the Illusive Man did when he revealed the completion of the Crucible to the Reapers. 

There could have been a similar indoctrinated mole in previous galactic cycles that became the lynchpin that caused that cycle to fail. 

Also, as Shepard proved in Arrival and ME1 (Saren's manual control), the Reapers don't NEED the citadel, it just speeds things up. And even then, the Protheans lasted centuries without the citadel.

Modifié par djspectre, 15 août 2012 - 12:45 .

[Ticonderoga117]

maaaze wrote...
and we all know that this prevents reapers from invading?!

But it gives them enough time to prepare and send out warnings.
Since they were not morons, they would've easily beaten the Reapers.

But they didn't.

[BigBadMammogram]

djspectre wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Fedi.St wrote...

yeah but the question remains?

how they found out how to intergrate it with the technology of a space station nobody knows how it really works?

...in this cycle! other cycles, different story. 

Right. A different story that was never told. Or hinted at. Hell, it was hinted that all of the previous cycles followed the same path. Reapers show up, everyone panics, reapers take over the citadel, shut off the relays, and systematically destroy every system. That story was told. Yours was not.

There's a difference between reading between the lines to figure out details, and completely rewriting a story to get it to make sense. You're rewriting the story, while everyone else is willing to admit that the story bioware presented us just sucks.

The story was told from the human perspective and those of the people Shepard encountered. Biowares story didn't suck so much as it worked perfectly. All the characters ASSUMED everything had worked exactly as it did with the Protheans, but that doesn't mean thats what ACTUALLY happened. 

It's conjecture from the characters because they weren't around millions of years ago or even 50,000 years ago, not even asari. 

Doesnt change the fact that the story was never told. If you want to make a good story, your audience generally needs to know details that the main characters dont know. Use Halo for an example. There's a lot of stuff I know about the forunners that the MC, or Cortana, dont know. That helps to make it a good story. 

Your explanation does make sense, from the perspective of bad writing. And again, your just making stuff up to fix their story.

[BigBadMammogram]

Just a side note: take a look around these forums. Obviously bioware's story worked perfectly...

Modifié par BigBadMammogram, 15 août 2012 - 12:47 .

[djspectre]

BigBadMammogram wrote...

djspectre wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Fedi.St wrote...

yeah but the question remains?

how they found out how to intergrate it with the technology of a space station nobody knows how it really works?

...in this cycle! other cycles, different story. 

Right. A different story that was never told. Or hinted at. Hell, it was hinted that all of the previous cycles followed the same path. Reapers show up, everyone panics, reapers take over the citadel, shut off the relays, and systematically destroy every system. That story was told. Yours was not.

There's a difference between reading between the lines to figure out details, and completely rewriting a story to get it to make sense. You're rewriting the story, while everyone else is willing to admit that the story bioware presented us just sucks.

The story was told from the human perspective and those of the people Shepard encountered. Biowares story didn't suck so much as it worked perfectly. All the characters ASSUMED everything had worked exactly as it did with the Protheans, but that doesn't mean thats what ACTUALLY happened. 

It's conjecture from the characters because they weren't around millions of years ago or even 50,000 years ago, not even asari. 

Doesnt change the fact that the story was never told. If you want to make a good story, your audience generally needs to know details that the main characters dont know. Use Halo for an example. There's a lot of stuff I know about the forunners that the MC, or Cortana, dont know. That helps to make it a good story. 

Your explanation does make sense, from the perspective of bad writing. And again, your just making stuff up to fix their story.

Dont use Halo references and characters to argue Mass Effect. The whole point of the Mass Effect series was that we weren't spoon-fed plot details that just conviently fell into our laps via dues ex machina because the writers ran out of ideas. There was no LOGICAL reason or method that Cortana or anyone else in the Halo universe could have known about the Forerunners until their encounter with the original halo installation. 

ME had knowledge of the protheans long before our story starts (by way of them referencing the Protheans as the 'source' of the mass relays and Citadel) and Javik's appearence gives us clarity on HIS cycle and the Prothean VI tells us that the Protheans didn't know everything about the previous cycles...only what they had found through other missed ruins and the crucible plans itself. 

Modifié par djspectre, 15 août 2012 - 12:50 .

[Mazebook]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

maaaze wrote...
and we all know that this prevents reapers from invading?!

But it gives them enough time to prepare and send out warnings.
Since they were not morons, they would've easily beaten the Reapers.

But they didn't.

because reapers can be beaten conventionally? Garrus : "how do you prepare for something like this?!"

Modifié par maaaze, 15 août 2012 - 12:51 .