545 réponses à ce sujet

[Ticonderoga117]

maaaze wrote...
because reapers can be beaten conventionally? Garrus : "how do you prepare for something like this?!"

Says so in the Codex.

"This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated."

Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 15 août 2012 - 12:56 .

[djspectre]

Despite all my other responses and that this thread is slowly veering off topic....

The fact remains that while the Crucible, which is a device designed by thousands of previous cycles and their combined knowledge up to this point (which very well may have included info about the keepers, the citadel, the reapers and lots of other things) is mostly a power source, it likely contained a small amount of hardware and software instructions that were able to make use of the existing hardware of the Citadel and effectively lock out the Catalyst from either negating these choices or choosing one itself. It's likely there was a string of code that REQUIRED an organic being to make the choice, not an AI.

Modifié par djspectre, 15 août 2012 - 12:56 .

[BigBadMammogram]

djspectre wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

djspectre wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Fedi.St wrote...

yeah but the question remains?

how they found out how to intergrate it with the technology of a space station nobody knows how it really works?

...in this cycle! other cycles, different story. 

Right. A different story that was never told. Or hinted at. Hell, it was hinted that all of the previous cycles followed the same path. Reapers show up, everyone panics, reapers take over the citadel, shut off the relays, and systematically destroy every system. That story was told. Yours was not.

There's a difference between reading between the lines to figure out details, and completely rewriting a story to get it to make sense. You're rewriting the story, while everyone else is willing to admit that the story bioware presented us just sucks.

The story was told from the human perspective and those of the people Shepard encountered. Biowares story didn't suck so much as it worked perfectly. All the characters ASSUMED everything had worked exactly as it did with the Protheans, but that doesn't mean thats what ACTUALLY happened. 

It's conjecture from the characters because they weren't around millions of years ago or even 50,000 years ago, not even asari. 

Doesnt change the fact that the story was never told. If you want to make a good story, your audience generally needs to know details that the main characters dont know. Use Halo for an example. There's a lot of stuff I know about the forunners that the MC, or Cortana, dont know. That helps to make it a good story. 

Your explanation does make sense, from the perspective of bad writing. And again, your just making stuff up to fix their story.

Dont use Halo references and characters to argue Mass Effect. The whole point of the Mass Effect series was that we weren't spoon-fed plot details that just conviently fell into our laps via dues ex machina because the writers ran out of ideas. There was no LOGICAL reason or method that Cortana or anyone else in the Halo universe could have known about the Forerunners until their encounter with the original halo installation. 

ME had knowledge of the protheans long before our story starts (by way of them referencing the Protheans as the 'source' of the mass relays and Citadel) and Javik's appearence gives us clarity on HIS cycle and the Prothean VI tells us that the Protheans didn't know everything about the previous cycles...only what they had found through other missed ruins and the crucible plans itself. 

Think you missed the point... The people in the halo universe dont know much about the forunners, but the AUDIENCE does. There are a lot of big questions in halo that the AUDIENCE wanted answers to, similar to mass effect. Bungie answered those questions. Bioware did to, by hinting at events in the past. But since those hints suck and dont make any sense, people (like you) just start making stuff up. Thats a bad story.

[BigBadMammogram]

djspectre wrote...

Despite all my other responses and that this thread is slowly veering off topic....

The fact remains that while the Crucible, which is a device designed by thousands of previous cycles and their combined knowledge up to this point (which very well may have included info about the keepers, the citadel, the reapers and lots of other things) is mostly a power source, it likely contained a small amount of hardware and software instructions that were able to make use of the existing hardware of the Citadel and effectively lock out the Catalyst from either negating these choices or choosing one itself. It's likely there was a string of code that REQUIRED an organic being to make the choice, not an AI.

So the important bit is the code, not the power supply. And yet its still 'little more than a power source'?

If it can change the catalyst(the most advanced AI in the galaxy), or the citadel(the most advanced structure in the galaxy), then it is a lot more than a power source.

[BigBadMammogram]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

maaaze wrote...
because reapers can be beaten conventionally? Garrus : "how do you prepare for something like this?!"

Says so in the Codex.

"This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated."

The 4th ending completely contradicts you there. You refuse, everyone dies, and the next cycle picks an option. So obviously there is no way to beat the reapers conventionally.

Its almost like we found another two statements in the game that completely contradict each other. I think I can come up with an explanation though...

Bad writing.

[Ticonderoga117]

BigBadMammogram wrote...
The 4th ending completely contradicts you there. You refuse, everyone dies, and the next cycle picks an option. So obviously there is no way to beat the reapers conventionally.

Its almost like we found another two statements in the game that completely contradict each other. I think I can come up with an explanation though...

Bad writing.

Of course it does, because common sense is not in the ME'verse by that point.
Remeber the motto of the game: Crucible or bust.

[djspectre]

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

maaaze wrote...
because reapers can be beaten conventionally? Garrus : "how do you prepare for something like this?!"

Says so in the Codex.

"This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated."

The 4th ending completely contradicts you there. You refuse, everyone dies, and the next cycle picks an option. So obviously there is no way to beat the reapers conventionally.

Its almost like we found another two statements in the game that completely contradict each other. I think I can come up with an explanation though...

Bad writing.

You are assuming that the next cycle builds the crucible at all. If you choose the 4th option, everyone dies and Liara states in the epilogue that they did everything they could.

"We even succeeded in constructing the Crucible, but it didn't work"

Any subsequent generation is going to find that message and assume that building ANOTHER crucible is a waste of time since someone already tried that solution and it didn't stop the Reapers. No one has any knowledge that Shepard's refusal is what caused the Crucible to fail except Shepard. And (s)he's dead. 

[BigBadMammogram]

djspectre wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

maaaze wrote...
because reapers can be beaten conventionally? Garrus : "how do you prepare for something like this?!"

Says so in the Codex.

"This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated."

The 4th ending completely contradicts you there. You refuse, everyone dies, and the next cycle picks an option. So obviously there is no way to beat the reapers conventionally.

Its almost like we found another two statements in the game that completely contradict each other. I think I can come up with an explanation though...

Bad writing.

You are assuming that the next cycle builds the crucible at all. If you choose the 4th option, everyone dies and Liara states in the epilogue that they did everything they could.

"We even succeeded in constructing the Crucible, but it didn't work"

Any subsequent generation is going to find that message and assume that building ANOTHER crucible is a waste of time since someone already tried that solution and it didn't stop the Reapers. No one has any knowledge that Shepard's refusal is what caused the Crucible to fail except Shepard. And (s)he's dead. 

So I just re-read the refusal ending script, and your right. Its so vague that we have no idea what they did to beat the reapers. Yay vague endings. It sure would be nice if bioware would explain things every once in a while.

[Ticonderoga117]

BigBadMammogram wrote...
So I just re-read the refusal ending script, and your right. Its so vague that we have no idea what they did to beat the reapers. Yay vague endings. It sure would be nice if bioware would explain things every once in a while.

I think now it's just best to put whatever in there. They tried, twice, to explain the Reapers and they failed, hard.
We got the Catalyst thanks to that, I'd rather not have more of thier forced stupidity to make ME worse.

[Sajuro]

LucasShark wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...

"The Crucible changed me created new....possibilties. But I can't make them happen."

I will just leave this here.

A) you're an ass for using "I'll just leave this here"
so an AI functionally tied into the very device can't make it work?

It shows that the crucible did create new options, even if it was a power source (giving you the energy to do something you couldn't before). And star child is not functionally tied into the Crucible or Citadel, he said that he is the Reaper Collective or something along those lines.

[Sajuro]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

maaaze wrote...
because reapers can be beaten conventionally? Garrus : "how do you prepare for something like this?!"

Says so in the Codex.

"This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated."

Source please.
Also we do have the right weapons, strategy, and intelligence.
Crucible, different fleets, and knowing how to get to the citadel.

[BigBadMammogram]

Sajuro wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

maaaze wrote...
because reapers can be beaten conventionally? Garrus : "how do you prepare for something like this?!"

Says so in the Codex.

"This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated."

Source please.
Also we do have the right weapons, strategy, and intelligence.
Crucible, different fleets, and knowing how to get to the citadel.

And apparantly you dont need the crucible to beat the reapers. So why did we waste so many resources on it?

[Sajuro]

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

maaaze wrote...
because reapers can be beaten conventionally? Garrus : "how do you prepare for something like this?!"

Says so in the Codex.

"This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated."

Source please.
Also we do have the right weapons, strategy, and intelligence.
Crucible, different fleets, and knowing how to get to the citadel.

And apparantly you dont need the crucible to beat the reapers. So why did we waste so many resources on it?

in the future they don't have any of the great minds who have graced BSN with their presence.

[BigBadMammogram]

Sajuro wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

maaaze wrote...
because reapers can be beaten conventionally? Garrus : "how do you prepare for something like this?!"

Says so in the Codex.

"This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated."

Source please.
Also we do have the right weapons, strategy, and intelligence.
Crucible, different fleets, and knowing how to get to the citadel.

And apparantly you dont need the crucible to beat the reapers. So why did we waste so many resources on it?

in the future they don't have any of the great minds who have graced BSN with their presence.

So your out of good arguments now and your falling back to using insults... Take a break, get your thoughts together, and try coming back with a good argument.

[Ticonderoga117]

Sajuro wrote...
Source please.
Also we do have the right weapons, strategy, and intelligence.
Crucible, different fleets, and knowing how to get to the citadel.

Codex - Reaper Vulnerabilites.

[Sajuro]

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

maaaze wrote...
because reapers can be beaten conventionally? Garrus : "how do you prepare for something like this?!"

Says so in the Codex.

"This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated."

Source please.
Also we do have the right weapons, strategy, and intelligence.
Crucible, different fleets, and knowing how to get to the citadel.

And apparantly you dont need the crucible to beat the reapers. So why did we waste so many resources on it?

in the future they don't have any of the great minds who have graced BSN with their presence.

So your out of good arguments now and your falling back to using insults... Take a break, get your thoughts together, and try coming back with a good argument.

Okay then, if they didn't need the crucible in the next cycle it was because we gave them enough time to prepare with Liara's data pods. If you are talking about this cycle, we are told over and over again that conventional victory wasn't possible. I honestly don't see why there needs to be arguments about this since the crucible can destroy the Reapers just fine so we don't have to sacrifice 90 percent of our fleets or populations or years.
My main thing is that the children born nine months after earth was invaded wouldn't only know the Reapers or the war like Javik did.
If several generations losing the chance at peace is how you want to go and lets you sleep at night, fine.

[BigBadMammogram]

Sajuro wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

maaaze wrote...
because reapers can be beaten conventionally? Garrus : "how do you prepare for something like this?!"

Says so in the Codex.

"This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated."

Source please.
Also we do have the right weapons, strategy, and intelligence.
Crucible, different fleets, and knowing how to get to the citadel.

And apparantly you dont need the crucible to beat the reapers. So why did we waste so many resources on it?

in the future they don't have any of the great minds who have graced BSN with their presence.

So your out of good arguments now and your falling back to using insults... Take a break, get your thoughts together, and try coming back with a good argument.

Okay then, if they didn't need the crucible in the next cycle it was because we gave them enough time to prepare with Liara's data pods. If you are talking about this cycle, we are told over and over again that conventional victory wasn't possible. I honestly don't see why there needs to be arguments about this since the crucible can destroy the Reapers just fine so we don't have to sacrifice 90 percent of our fleets or populations or years.
My main thing is that the children born nine months after earth was invaded wouldn't only know the Reapers or the war like Javik did.
If several generations losing the chance at peace is how you want to go and lets you sleep at night, fine.

Better. Thats the part that doesnt make any sense to me. We are told over and over again that conventional victory is impossible, yet we keep killing reapers and generally finding out that conventional victory is possible. But that's as deep as im going into that argument in this thread. That's a completely different argument that doesnt fit with the OP's argument.

And its time to go to sleep, so I'm done for tonight.

Modifié par BigBadMammogram, 15 août 2012 - 02:20 .

[Sajuro]

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

maaaze wrote...
because reapers can be beaten conventionally? Garrus : "how do you prepare for something like this?!"

Says so in the Codex.

"This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated."

Source please.
Also we do have the right weapons, strategy, and intelligence.
Crucible, different fleets, and knowing how to get to the citadel.

And apparantly you dont need the crucible to beat the reapers. So why did we waste so many resources on it?

in the future they don't have any of the great minds who have graced BSN with their presence.

So your out of good arguments now and your falling back to using insults... Take a break, get your thoughts together, and try coming back with a good argument.

Okay then, if they didn't need the crucible in the next cycle it was because we gave them enough time to prepare with Liara's data pods. If you are talking about this cycle, we are told over and over again that conventional victory wasn't possible. I honestly don't see why there needs to be arguments about this since the crucible can destroy the Reapers just fine so we don't have to sacrifice 90 percent of our fleets or populations or years.
My main thing is that the children born nine months after earth was invaded wouldn't only know the Reapers or the war like Javik did.
If several generations losing the chance at peace is how you want to go and lets you sleep at night, fine.

Better. Thats the part that doesnt make any sense to me. We are told over and over again that conventional victory is impossible, yet we keep killing reapers and generally finding out that conventional victory is possible. But that's as deep as im going into that argument in this thread. That's a completely different argument that doesnt fit with the OP's argument.

And its time to go to sleep, so I'm done for tonight.

Okay, one last thing.
I think Hackett means conventional victory in the literal way (no supply lines to cut, no stand up battles, no places the reapers have to defend.) BSN means non crucible victory which may be possible but it would probably leave the current cycle a slowly dying galaxy. Reapers being killed by Thresher Maws and the entire Quarian Fleet are not conventional wins.
One more thing, every time I see your name and avatar, I think of Broodmothers from DA:O

[Wayning_Star]

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

maaaze wrote...
because reapers can be beaten conventionally? Garrus : "how do you prepare for something like this?!"

Says so in the Codex.

"This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated."

Source please.
Also we do have the right weapons, strategy, and intelligence.
Crucible, different fleets, and knowing how to get to the citadel.

And apparantly you dont need the crucible to beat the reapers. So why did we waste so many resources on it?

in the future they don't have any of the great minds who have graced BSN with their presence.

So your out of good arguments now and your falling back to using insults... Take a break, get your thoughts together, and try coming back with a good argument.

Okay then, if they didn't need the crucible in the next cycle it was because we gave them enough time to prepare with Liara's data pods. If you are talking about this cycle, we are told over and over again that conventional victory wasn't possible. I honestly don't see why there needs to be arguments about this since the crucible can destroy the Reapers just fine so we don't have to sacrifice 90 percent of our fleets or populations or years.
My main thing is that the children born nine months after earth was invaded wouldn't only know the Reapers or the war like Javik did.
If several generations losing the chance at peace is how you want to go and lets you sleep at night, fine.

Better. Thats the part that doesnt make any sense to me. We are told over and over again that conventional victory is impossible, yet we keep killing reapers and generally finding out that conventional victory is possible. But that's as deep as im going into that argument in this thread. That's a completely different argument that doesnt fit with the OP's argument.

And its time to go to sleep, so I'm done for tonight.

the games but a whisper in deafness a shout..I may make you feel, but I can't make you think..

the game isn't badly written as is misunderstood with what information given. I believe the game is processed poorly becuase of the attempt to convey messages 'subtly'. As every tipster in the game ends up closing down before the answers are blurted out. It's a mystery of all mysteries,where the answere lies buried in the writers mind, only hinted at in the game, but there,if the codes can be broken. It's extremely hard to get all the moves correct to gain any canon ending. Maybe Bioware rigged it that way, so the easy answer would be forthcoming in dlc, the hard ones caught by astute players willing to extrapolate them from the messages given in game. That's why it seems bad writeing, cause the answer isn't right there for all to see. The answer (canon) seems to be a question...

[teh DRUMPf!!]

ExceptionallyWiseMan wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

"The crucible creates new options for the catalyst (how and how these were chosen and who programmed them is left unanswered), but "he can't bring himself to choose" (or somesuch insanity), so he needs Shepard to pick for him."


Wow is that sad.  So a machine who's distinguishing feature (an AI) is the ability to learn, reason and make decisions cannot do one of the 3?  He doesn't even have the "we are conflicted" moment Legion does.

He couldn't physically make them happen.

He makes his preference clear (synthesis).

Leaving out all those holes, my MAJOR problem is thus: no, the crucible clearly did NOT "create new options".

...

2 is the big one: the crucible is NOT the thing generating this spacwave of space magic, it is the citadel and the relay network.  Which means they had at least some of this functionality all along.  Since the crucible is an object which we can see does not span the entirety of the citadel, it is not the thing doing the important work here.

Yes, but it needed something like the Crucible to make all three options work.

Also, the Catalyst does not support Destroy or Control as solutions, and only presents Synthesis if/when it believes the galaxy is ready for it. Which is why he was never compelled to go out of his way to look for a different solution than to harvest organics.

You're only getting the options because you did your job.

QFT.

[Wayning_Star]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

ExceptionallyWiseMan wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

"The crucible creates new options for the catalyst (how and how these were chosen and who programmed them is left unanswered), but "he can't bring himself to choose" (or somesuch insanity), so he needs Shepard to pick for him."


Wow is that sad.  So a machine who's distinguishing feature (an AI) is the ability to learn, reason and make decisions cannot do one of the 3?  He doesn't even have the "we are conflicted" moment Legion does.

He couldn't physically make them happen.

He makes his preference clear (synthesis).

Leaving out all those holes, my MAJOR problem is thus: no, the crucible clearly did NOT "create new options".

...

2 is the big one: the crucible is NOT the thing generating this spacwave of space magic, it is the citadel and the relay network.  Which means they had at least some of this functionality all along.  Since the crucible is an object which we can see does not span the entirety of the citadel, it is not the thing doing the important work here.

Yes, but it needed something like the Crucible to make all three options work.

Also, the Catalyst does not support Destroy or Control as solutions, and only presents Synthesis if/when it believes the galaxy is ready for it. Which is why he was never compelled to go out of his way to look for a different solution than to harvest organics.

You're only getting the options because you did your job.

QFT.

actually, no, the crucible can be damaged, limiting the choices. The catalyst doens't support, or not any choices. It dosn't do anything but harvest and what ever the crucible tells it to do. The citadel is the brains, kind of super computer that is the home for the catalyst program, which is the root of the problem created by those who brought it into being, then gave it enough smarts to misundestand it's core program to monitor and control synth and organic life so they wouldn't try  to overpower each other.

From it's programming it derived an ultimate solution to stop all life when they decided to fight amongst each other for what ever reason. That's where it got stuck on the idea of chaos, a concept too great for its fragile sentience. It only knew what to do, not why not do it. So it harvested it's own creators to prove it's theory works.

The creator race simply messed up with the catalyst and gave it too much power without the wisdom to understand included pitfalls. It corrupted the illusive man with indoctrination, warping his world view, and dooming his 'humanity'. He lost it when he thought in absolutes, his ambition pushed him over the edge of sanity. He became, pretty much, a proto reaper. Similar to Saren, eventhough Saren was more of a scrapper, action vs thought, the same corruption sent him over the edge, he lost his organic heritage, became a proto reaper. It's a 'spirit of the thing'..thing.

Shepard didn't fall that far from 'grace' as it were, as he was able to resist the submental push that are the reapers and their catalyst over stooge. All victims of the cycle. The logic loop of insanity, byproduct of mechinized, thinking without wisdom, and not even an ego to get brused. Just the program, follow the program, inflict the program.

All we can do is surmise why the original creators of the cycle created the catalyst with such a program. What the intent was to control the organic vs synthetic life struggles in real time. The game only hints that the catalyst is the basis for the cycle, the be all end all, underwriter of it. But intuition tells that is only the afterthought, and the original creators are still, in some way, holding the ball.

[dreman9999]

 If your going to say what being said by one side about what's goin gon...Get it right and understand it before saying it. It make you look less ignorant if you do.

No one is say what think is being siad.

Let me be clear......

The crucible is like an upgrade to the catalyst....It does open new opinions to the catalyst...It literaly says this to you.The reason why it's trying to get more opinion is because of it's programing. It's programed to find the best way to solve the solution given to it... That in hand means that if the reaper solution it pickedbefore fail...It needs to pick new solutions or if a better solution apears...That needs to be picked.

[dreman9999]

Wayning_Star wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

ExceptionallyWiseMan wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

"The crucible creates new options for the catalyst (how and how these were chosen and who programmed them is left unanswered), but "he can't bring himself to choose" (or somesuch insanity), so he needs Shepard to pick for him."


Wow is that sad.  So a machine who's distinguishing feature (an AI) is the ability to learn, reason and make decisions cannot do one of the 3?  He doesn't even have the "we are conflicted" moment Legion does.

He couldn't physically make them happen.

He makes his preference clear (synthesis).

Leaving out all those holes, my MAJOR problem is thus: no, the crucible clearly did NOT "create new options".

...

2 is the big one: the crucible is NOT the thing generating this spacwave of space magic, it is the citadel and the relay network.  Which means they had at least some of this functionality all along.  Since the crucible is an object which we can see does not span the entirety of the citadel, it is not the thing doing the important work here.

Yes, but it needed something like the Crucible to make all three options work.

Also, the Catalyst does not support Destroy or Control as solutions, and only presents Synthesis if/when it believes the galaxy is ready for it. Which is why he was never compelled to go out of his way to look for a different solution than to harvest organics.

You're only getting the options because you did your job.

QFT.

actually, no, the crucible can be damaged, limiting the choices. The catalyst doens't support, or not any choices. It dosn't do anything but harvest and what ever the crucible tells it to do. The citadel is the brains, kind of super computer that is the home for the catalyst program, which is the root of the problem created by those who brought it into being, then gave it enough smarts to misundestand it's core program to monitor and control synth and organic life so they wouldn't try  to overpower each other.

From it's programming it derived an ultimate solution to stop all life when they decided to fight amongst each other for what ever reason. That's where it got stuck on the idea of chaos, a concept too great for its fragile sentience. It only knew what to do, not why not do it. So it harvested it's own creators to prove it's theory works.

The creator race simply messed up with the catalyst and gave it too much power without the wisdom to understand included pitfalls. It corrupted the illusive man with indoctrination, warping his world view, and dooming his 'humanity'. He lost it when he thought in absolutes, his ambition pushed him over the edge of sanity. He became, pretty much, a proto reaper. Similar to Saren, eventhough Saren was more of a scrapper, action vs thought, the same corruption sent him over the edge, he lost his organic heritage, became a proto reaper. It's a 'spirit of the thing'..thing.

Shepard didn't fall that far from 'grace' as it were, as he was able to resist the submental push that are the reapers and their catalyst over stooge. All victims of the cycle. The logic loop of insanity, byproduct of mechinized, thinking without wisdom, and not even an ego to get brused. Just the program, follow the program, inflict the program.

All we can do is surmise why the original creators of the cycle created the catalyst with such a program. What the intent was to control the organic vs synthetic life struggles in real time. The game only hints that the catalyst is the basis for the cycle, the be all end all, underwriter of it. But intuition tells that is only the afterthought, and the original creators are still, in some way, holding the ball.

It literaly say Synthesis is he best choice and then trys to convince you to pick it.  You also missing the fact that the main reason why it tried to chance the solution is because the reaper solution failed.

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

The crucible is like an upgrade to the catalyst....It does open new opinions to the catalyst...It literaly says this to you.The reason why it's trying to get more opinion is because of it's programing. It's programed to find the best way to solve the solution given to it... That in hand means that if the reaper solution it pickedbefore fail...It needs to pick new solutions or if a better solution apears...That needs to be picked.

It also tells you-

"The construct that you know as the Crucible is merely a power source."

Last I checked, the batteries I put into my wireless mouse don't turn it into a TV remote.

[dreman9999]

djspectre wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

maaaze wrote...
because reapers can be beaten conventionally? Garrus : "how do you prepare for something like this?!"

Says so in the Codex.

"This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated."

The 4th ending completely contradicts you there. You refuse, everyone dies, and the next cycle picks an option. So obviously there is no way to beat the reapers conventionally.

Its almost like we found another two statements in the game that completely contradict each other. I think I can come up with an explanation though...

Bad writing.

You are assuming that the next cycle builds the crucible at all. If you choose the 4th option, everyone dies and Liara states in the epilogue that they did everything they could.

"We even succeeded in constructing the Crucible, but it didn't work"

Any subsequent generation is going to find that message and assume that building ANOTHER crucible is a waste of time since someone already tried that solution and it didn't stop the Reapers. No one has any knowledge that Shepard's refusal is what caused the Crucible to fail except Shepard. And (s)he's dead. 

It's been well comfermed that they noth only do build it but use it. Try again.