545 réponses à ce sujet

[Mazebook]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

maaaze wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

maaaze wrote...

i will just leave this here one more time because everybody keeps ignoring it

*snippies*

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

/thread

...Yet how the hell did the all the previous cycles make something to fit the Citadel and change it when they have never been to it I wonder...

More bad writing I suppose?

how about you read the thread,..the answer was given a few hundred times.

Citadel was inhabited by 1000 of cycles before the invasion..some knew more than others

That's crap; every cycle has been blind-sided by the Reapers; only the Protheans managed to do anything and that only because they were tinkering with the mass relays on some remote world when the Reapers showed up and ate everyone.

All invasions parring this cycle had the Reapers using the Citadel as their entrance; since they killed all the leaders and the inhabitants, how did they make some giant battery for the Citadel to do something they had no idea what, which apparently changes the Catalyst yet he total ignores Sovereign in ME1 and apparently can't pick the other choices himself since he needs a willing sacrifice in the green beam.

Do you truly believe the protheans were the first to disturb the reapers plans? There were bound to be more.

Don´t forget that the curcible is the product of the comined knowlege of over 1000 Cycles.
There were bound to be cycles that knew more of the citadel and the reapers than this cycle.

[KiwiQuiche]

maaaze wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

maaaze wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

maaaze wrote...

i will just leave this here one more time because everybody keeps ignoring it

*snippies*

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

/thread

...Yet how the hell did the all the previous cycles make something to fit the Citadel and change it when they have never been to it I wonder...

More bad writing I suppose?

how about you read the thread,..the answer was given a few hundred times.

Citadel was inhabited by 1000 of cycles before the invasion..some knew more than others

That's crap; every cycle has been blind-sided by the Reapers; only the Protheans managed to do anything and that only because they were tinkering with the mass relays on some remote world when the Reapers showed up and ate everyone.

All invasions parring this cycle had the Reapers using the Citadel as their entrance; since they killed all the leaders and the inhabitants, how did they make some giant battery for the Citadel to do something they had no idea what, which apparently changes the Catalyst yet he total ignores Sovereign in ME1 and apparently can't pick the other choices himself since he needs a willing sacrifice in the green beam.

Do you truly believe the protheans were the first to disturb the reapers plans? There were bound to be more.

Don´t forget that the curcible is the product of the comined knowlege of over 1000 Cycles.
There were bound to be cycles that knew more of the citadel and the reapers than this cycle.

And every single cycle forgot to put "This is what the Crucible actually does" in the plans, right?

[Mazebook]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

maaaze wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

maaaze wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

maaaze wrote...

i will just leave this here one more time because everybody keeps ignoring it

*snippies*

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

/thread

...Yet how the hell did the all the previous cycles make something to fit the Citadel and change it when they have never been to it I wonder...

More bad writing I suppose?

how about you read the thread,..the answer was given a few hundred times.

Citadel was inhabited by 1000 of cycles before the invasion..some knew more than others

That's crap; every cycle has been blind-sided by the Reapers; only the Protheans managed to do anything and that only because they were tinkering with the mass relays on some remote world when the Reapers showed up and ate everyone.

All invasions parring this cycle had the Reapers using the Citadel as their entrance; since they killed all the leaders and the inhabitants, how did they make some giant battery for the Citadel to do something they had no idea what, which apparently changes the Catalyst yet he total ignores Sovereign in ME1 and apparently can't pick the other choices himself since he needs a willing sacrifice in the green beam.

Do you truly believe the protheans were the first to disturb the reapers plans? There were bound to be more.

Don´t forget that the curcible is the product of the comined knowlege of over 1000 Cycles.
There were bound to be cycles that knew more of the citadel and the reapers than this cycle.

And every single cycle forgot to put "This is what the Crucible actually does" in the plans, right?

The scientiest are just not sure...these are plans , not a manual.

also many things are lost in translations. ("A device that is only refered as the catalyst" "What is the Catalyst?" "We are not sure.").

Modifié par maaaze, 15 août 2012 - 11:18 .

[KiwiQuiche]

maaaze wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

maaaze wrote...


Do you truly believe the protheans were the first to disturb the reapers plans? There were bound to be more.

Don´t forget that the curcible is the product of the comined knowlege of over 1000 Cycles.
There were bound to be cycles that knew more of the citadel and the reapers than this cycle.

And every single cycle forgot to put "This is what the Crucible actually does" in the plans, right?

The scientiest are just not sure...these are plans , not a manual.

also many things are lost in translations. ("A device that is only refered as the catalyst" "What is the Catalyst?" "We are not sure.").

Even if you only have plans you should still be able to understand what the thing you are making does, rather than just "Big power source, made to kill Reapers. Seem legit"

And how did anyone know about the Catalyst? Only Shepard has met him, stating she's the first organic to be there. How did they know of him, what he was and how the Crucible would 'change' him?

[o Ventus]

maaaze wrote...

The scientiest are just not sure...these are plans , not a manual.

also many things are lost in translations. ("A device that is only refered as the catalyst" "What is the Catalyst?" "We are not sure.").

"Plans" implies that you have an idea of what the device does before you actually make it.

If you're throwing components together on the off-chance that something might happen with them, then you haven't planned anything.

[Mazebook]

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

The scientiest are just not sure...these are plans , not a manual.

also many things are lost in translations. ("A device that is only refered as the catalyst" "What is the Catalyst?" "We are not sure.").

"Plans" implies that you have an idea of what the device does before you actually make it.

If you're throwing components together on the off-chance that something might happen with them, then you haven't planned anything.

Well the designers knew...only this cycle did not know...the manual was maybe lost in the archives.

Plans just show you how to construct that thing.

[Mazebook]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

maaaze wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

maaaze wrote...


Do you truly believe the protheans were the first to disturb the reapers plans? There were bound to be more.

Don´t forget that the curcible is the product of the comined knowlege of over 1000 Cycles.
There were bound to be cycles that knew more of the citadel and the reapers than this cycle.

And every single cycle forgot to put "This is what the Crucible actually does" in the plans, right?

The scientiest are just not sure...these are plans , not a manual.

also many things are lost in translations. ("A device that is only refered as the catalyst" "What is the Catalyst?" "We are not sure.").

Even if you only have plans you should still be able to understand what the thing you are making does, rather than just "Big power source, made to kill Reapers. Seem legit"

And how did anyone know about the Catalyst? Only Shepard has met him, stating she's the first organic to be there. How did they know of him, what he was and how the Crucible would 'change' him?

Please just read through the thread...these are the same questions which are already answered.

The knew about the Citadel. The citadel is part of the catalyst. changing the citadel changes the catalyst.
You only have to know the citadel in order to change the catalyst.

Modifié par maaaze, 15 août 2012 - 11:46 .

[o Ventus]

maaaze wrote...

Well the designers knew...only this cycle did not know...the manual was maybe lost in the archives.

Plans just show you how to construct that thing.

Now you're headcanoning to fill in gaps of logic.

[Mazebook]

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Well the designers knew...only this cycle did not know...the manual was maybe lost in the archives.

Plans just show you how to construct that thing.

Now you're headcanoning to fill in gaps of logic.

a plan is a plan.

can you tell me what this is...and for what it is for?

You also do a lot of headcannoning to fill in the gaps. Just your headcannon make no sense. You make the same assumptions that they did not include anything. We speak of documents that are very old. 

Modifié par maaaze, 15 août 2012 - 12:00 .

[KiwiQuiche]

maaaze wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

maaaze wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...


And every single cycle forgot to put "This is what the Crucible actually does" in the plans, right?

The scientiest are just not sure...these are plans , not a manual.

also many things are lost in translations. ("A device that is only refered as the catalyst" "What is the Catalyst?" "We are not sure.").

Even if you only have plans you should still be able to understand what the thing you are making does, rather than just "Big power source, made to kill Reapers. Seem legit"

And how did anyone know about the Catalyst? Only Shepard has met him, stating she's the first organic to be there. How did they know of him, what he was and how the Crucible would 'change' him?

Please just read through the thread...these are the same questions which are already answered.

The knew about the Citadel. The citadel is part of the catalyst. changing the citadel changes the catalyst.
You only have to know the citadel in order to change the catalyst.

Yeah I did and most were just "Oh that random cycle knows about the Reaper Overlord even though it's never said in the actual game 'cause plot"

Makes no sense, bro. You only need to know the basic things of the Citadel in order to change the most advance AI in existance using a giant battery?

[o Ventus]

maaaze wrote...

a plan is a plan.

can you tell me what this is...and for what it is for?

You also do a lot of headcannoning to fill in the gaps. Just your headcannon make no sense. You make the same assumptions that they did not include anything. We speak of documents that are very old. 

A plan is a plan, yeah. "Plans", like I said, implies that you have a vague idea of what the f**king thing does when you construct it. If the people who came up with the idea for the Crucible didn't know about the Catalyst, which is the implication, then they're idiots.

As for your link, I don't know what the hell it is. Why don't I? Because I didn't make it, which is the point I'm getting across.

Stop twisting my syntax around and changing the subject.

Exactly what have I headcanoned so far? 

Modifié par o Ventus, 15 août 2012 - 12:06 .

[Mazebook]

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

a plan is a plan.

can you tell me what this is...and for what it is for?

You also do a lot of headcannoning to fill in the gaps. Just your headcannon make no sense. You make the same assumptions that they did not include anything. We speak of documents that are very old. 

A plan is a plan, yeah. "Plans", like I said, implies that you have a vague idea of what the f**king thing does when you construct it. If the people who came up with the idea for the Crucible didn't know about the Catalyst, which is the implication, then they're idiots.

As for your link, I don't know what the hell it is. Why don't I? Because I didn't make it, which is the point I'm getting across.

Stop twisting my syntax around and changing the subject.

Exactly what have I headcanoned so far? 

yes but you can construct it...the plans of the crucible are massive in scope but easy to put togeather.

That is the key. You can only guess for what the mechanisms are for. But you can construct it without being certain what it does. We built magnatic devices before we knew what magnetism was.

You headcanoned that they just throw components togeather...which does not make sense...

[Mazebook]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

maaaze wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

maaaze wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...


And every single cycle forgot to put "This is what the Crucible actually does" in the plans, right?

The scientiest are just not sure...these are plans , not a manual.

also many things are lost in translations. ("A device that is only refered as the catalyst" "What is the Catalyst?" "We are not sure.").

Even if you only have plans you should still be able to understand what the thing you are making does, rather than just "Big power source, made to kill Reapers. Seem legit"

And how did anyone know about the Catalyst? Only Shepard has met him, stating she's the first organic to be there. How did they know of him, what he was and how the Crucible would 'change' him?

Please just read through the thread...these are the same questions which are already answered.

The knew about the Citadel. The citadel is part of the catalyst. changing the citadel changes the catalyst.
You only have to know the citadel in order to change the catalyst.

Yeah I did and most were just "Oh that random cycle knows about the Reaper Overlord even though it's never said in the actual game 'cause plot"

Makes no sense, bro. You only need to know the basic things of the Citadel in order to change the most advance AI in existance using a giant battery?

bro, maybe it is time you actually read through my respones in context not one by one. They are connected.-

No, Vigil , the proathean A.I. even say this. You only need to know of the citadel to make the crucible work. You change the catalyst A.I. by changing the Citadel hardware. 

Play the game again...you seem to have missed alot.

[o Ventus]

maaaze wrote...

yes but you can construct it...the plans of the crucible are massive in scope but easy to put togeather.

That is the key. You can only guess for what the mechanisms are for. But you can construct it without being certain what it does. We built magnatic devices before we knew what magnetism was.

You headcanoned that they just throw components togeather...which does not make sense...

That's not at all what I said. Nice try though. What I said was "If the people who came up with the Crucible were just throwing components together, they're idiots".

The implication in the story is that the people who came up with the Crucible did not know about the Catalyst. the Catalyst itself supports this through his dialogue. If this is true, then it would, in essence, mean that they were throwing pieces together on the off-chance that something might happen.

[Mazebook]

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

yes but you can construct it...the plans of the crucible are massive in scope but easy to put togeather.

That is the key. You can only guess for what the mechanisms are for. But you can construct it without being certain what it does. We built magnatic devices before we knew what magnetism was.

You headcanoned that they just throw components togeather...which does not make sense...

That's not at all what I said. Nice try though. What I said was "If the people who came up with the Crucible were just throwing components together, they're idiots".

The implication in the story is that the people who came up with the Crucible did not know about the Catalyst. the Catalyst itself supports this through his dialogue. If this is true, then it would, in essence, mean that they were throwing pieces together on the off-chance that something might happen.

No that was not what you said...but forget it.

the important part is this:
Like said thousands times over...you only need to know the citadel in order make the crucible work.
If you change the citadel, your are changing the catalyst. (the citadel is part of the Catalyst.)

So some cycles knew more of the citadel than our cycle...which is shown by the existance of the crucible itself.

Modifié par maaaze, 15 août 2012 - 12:35 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

yes but you can construct it...the plans of the crucible are massive in scope but easy to put togeather.

That is the key. You can only guess for what the mechanisms are for. But you can construct it without being certain what it does. We built magnatic devices before we knew what magnetism was.

You headcanoned that they just throw components togeather...which does not make sense...

That's not at all what I said. Nice try though. What I said was "If the people who came up with the Crucible were just throwing components together, they're idiots".

The implication in the story is that the people who came up with the Crucible did not know about the Catalyst. the Catalyst itself supports this through his dialogue. If this is true, then it would, in essence, mean that they were throwing pieces together on the off-chance that something might happen.

How about this...

As far as I can tell the Crucible interfaces with the Citadel perfectly. It fits flawlessly. Whoever designed it must have intimate knowledge of the Citadel, because the Crucible is only capable of performing its function in combination with the Citadel and the mass relays. The brat claims that the Citadel is part of the brat, which allows it to design all the required technology. The Crucible is described by the brat as merely a crude power source, effective and adaptive in its design. Although it claims that the Crucible had organic origins, that can be just half of the truth. Starships and weapons, as an example, are also created by organics. Yet, these are based on dropped reaper technology.

There is no reason why the plans and refinements for the Crucible couldn't have been dropped by the reapers, just as they dropped knowledge and technology to ensure the civilizations to develop along the path's the reapers desire. To make that feasible the brat should have known something about its features and it turns out it does. It is your perfect tour guide after its elevator picks you up. It even tells you that although their initial eugenic experiments failed, this time synthesis is safe to use. That is not only a general understanding of the synthesis function, it is extensive, because it tells you that this time it is safe to use. In comparison it must have been relatively simple to add the other functions to the plans and refinements.

[o Ventus]

maaaze wrote...

No that was not what you said...but forget it.

If you're throwing components together on the off-chance that something might happen with them, then you haven't planned anything.

Just swap out "the people who came up with the Crucible". For all intents and purposes, they're the same thing. you must enjoy arguing in semantics.

Like said thousands times over...you only need to know the citadel in order make the crucible work.
If you change the citadel, your are changing the catalyst. (the citadel is part of the Catalyst.)

So some cycles knew more of the citadel than our cycle...which is shown by the existance of the crucible itself.

Like I said, headcanon.

[KiwiQuiche]

maaaze wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

maaaze wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...


Even if you only have plans you should still be able to understand what the thing you are making does, rather than just "Big power source, made to kill Reapers. Seem legit"

And how did anyone know about the Catalyst? Only Shepard has met him, stating she's the first organic to be there. How did they know of him, what he was and how the Crucible would 'change' him?

Please just read through the thread...these are the same questions which are already answered.

The knew about the Citadel. The citadel is part of the catalyst. changing the citadel changes the catalyst.
You only have to know the citadel in order to change the catalyst.

Yeah I did and most were just "Oh that random cycle knows about the Reaper Overlord even though it's never said in the actual game 'cause plot"

Makes no sense, bro. You only need to know the basic things of the Citadel in order to change the most advance AI in existance using a giant battery?

bro, maybe it is time you actually read through my respones in context not one by one. They are connected.-

No, Vigil , the proathean A.I. even say this. You only need to know of the citadel to make the crucible work. You change the catalyst A.I. by changing the Citadel hardware. 

Play the game again...you seem to have missed alot.

So the giant battery makes the Reaper Lord want to love and cherish organics by throwing green glitter over them via a weapon that no cycle that has tried to build it seems to know the purpose of?

Yup, that seems totally coherent.

EDIT: Also, 'You only need to know of the citadel to make the crucible work' makes no sense; the Catalyst states the Citadel is a PART of him, not his whole system. My arm is a part of me, but it doesn't control the rest of my body.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 15 août 2012 - 01:03 .

[Mazebook]

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

No that was not what you said...but forget it.

If you're throwing components together on the off-chance that something might happen with them, then you haven't planned anything.

Just swap out "the people who came up with the Crucible". For all intents and purposes, they're the same thing. you must enjoy arguing in semantics.

Like said thousands times over...you only need to know the citadel in order make the crucible work.
If you change the citadel, your are changing the catalyst. (the citadel is part of the Catalyst.)

So some cycles knew more of the citadel than our cycle...which is shown by the existance of the crucible itself.

Like I said, headcanon.

What is headcannon about it? The existance of the crucible proves that. The prothean A.i. even comfirms it.
It is backed up by the Narrative. How they knew more is up for headcannon. What is not headcannon is that some cycles who worked on the crucible did know more.

Modifié par maaaze, 15 août 2012 - 01:02 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

maaaze wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

No that was not what you said...but forget it.

If you're throwing components together on the off-chance that something might happen with them, then you haven't planned anything.

Just swap out "the people who came up with the Crucible". For all intents and purposes, they're the same thing. you must enjoy arguing in semantics.

Like said thousands times over...you only need to know the citadel in order make the crucible work.
If you change the citadel, your are changing the catalyst. (the citadel is part of the Catalyst.)

So some cycles knew more of the citadel than our cycle...which is shown by the existance of the crucible itself.

Like I said, headcanon.

What is headcannon about it? The existance of the crucible proves that. The prothean A.i. even comfirms it.
It is backed up by the Narrative. How they knew more is up for headcannon. What is not headcannon is that some cycles who worked on the crucible did know more.

Vendetta knew about the Catalyst, yet it didn't tell how the device worked. It did tell that the design is millions of years old and that it is uncertain who designed the device. Each cycle added to it. That still does not mean that they knew what they were doing. They could have simply followed plans and refinements dropped by the reapers, just as they dropped knowledge and technology to force the civilizations to develop along the paths they desire. Even Shepard's cycle, who completed it and deployed it had no clue what it was supposed to do, until the brat explained the device.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 15 août 2012 - 01:23 .

[dreman9999]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.The 3 opinion are trigger by the control panel on the catalyst. That does not mean the catalyst desides whatit does. If it did only synthesis would be the opion.

2. It telling us the best option to pick is synthesis and the fact to helping us points to the fact that it want synthesis. It's logic.
If it did not wamt Shepard to pick anything ...Why is it asking him to?

1). You are again assuming what the brats motivations are. But of course you are again just guessing. We only know the following: The brat claims that the Citadel is part of the brat. So the three platforms, and the elevator to get Shepard up there, cannot be built without its consent. And if it did not approve these then it didn't attempt to sabotage them, even though it knew about their existence for a very long time. The Crucible interfaces flawlessly with the Citadel. It even mentions that the Crucible is little more than a power source. It's crude, but effective and adaptive in its design. It tells you it can only work in combination with the Citadel and the mass relays. It is also not something like a weapon, because a weapon does not require the consent of its victim to be fired.

2). You can jump up and down, but the brat also offers two other options. The fact that the brat has a preference has nothing to do with it.

You missing a vital point here...Why is he asking Shepard to choose? If he was incontrol....Why is he asking Shepard?

According to the brat, its old solution for the hypothetical threat didn't work anymore. So it offers three new ones, which were in preparation for a while now.

And you don't thnik that makes no sense that it's asking you to pick if it is in control?

[dreman9999]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

maaaze wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

No that was not what you said...but forget it.

If you're throwing components together on the off-chance that something might happen with them, then you haven't planned anything.

Just swap out "the people who came up with the Crucible". For all intents and purposes, they're the same thing. you must enjoy arguing in semantics.

Like said thousands times over...you only need to know the citadel in order make the crucible work.
If you change the citadel, your are changing the catalyst. (the citadel is part of the Catalyst.)

So some cycles knew more of the citadel than our cycle...which is shown by the existance of the crucible itself.

Like I said, headcanon.

What is headcannon about it? The existance of the crucible proves that. The prothean A.i. even comfirms it.
It is backed up by the Narrative. How they knew more is up for headcannon. What is not headcannon is that some cycles who worked on the crucible did know more.

Vendetta knew about the Catalyst, yet it didn't tell how the device worked. It did tell that the design is millions of years old and that it is uncertain who designed the device. Each cycle added to it. That still does not mean that they knew what they were doing. They could have simply followed plans and refinements dropped by the reapers, just as they dropped knowledge and technology to force the civilizations to develop along the paths they desire. Even Shepard's cycle, who completed it and deployed it had no clue what it was supposed to do, until the brat explained the device.

It's crucible and he does tell you how it works....

It's stated the crucible genorates a massive amoun tof power and the catalyst is a form of dilivering the attack.

[Xandurpein]

The big problem for me is that Catalyst claims it's unable to use it's new possibilities. Catalyst own background clearly proves that it has no inhibitions about using whatever means it has access to, regardless of what others might feel, as long as it achieves it's goal.

[dreman9999]

Xandurpein wrote...

The big problem for me is that Catalyst claims it's unable to use it's new possibilities. Catalyst own background clearly proves that it has no inhibitions about using whatever means it has access to, regardless of what others might feel, as long as it achieves it's goal.

The crucible can destory and rewrite the catalyst. If it is a shackled AI, it can't out and use the crucible because of this. It needs a proxy.

[robertthebard]

Xandurpein wrote...

The big problem for me is that Catalyst claims it's unable to use it's new possibilities. Catalyst own background clearly proves that it has no inhibitions about using whatever means it has access to, regardless of what others might feel, as long as it achieves it's goal.

It's simple, really.  The SC can't do Synthesis because it's not Organic, and for it to work, an Organic must go into the light.  Do you really see it using Destroy on itself?  That would be a hoot, AI Suicide Hotline, can I help you?  It's already in Control, so what would it need to do that for, and Refusal is the MO since it's inception.  What's not clear?

Oh, wait, it's also a hologram, and so can't interact with any of the controls if it wanted to.