545 réponses à ce sujet

[BigBadMammogram]

robertthebard wrote...

So tell me, what is the other function of a sniper rifle?  Really, that's all they do, reach out and fatally touch someone.

 
Yeah, thats kinda the important part left out, which makes the statement ridiculous. Not to mention the advanced physiscs required to accuretly hurl a chunk of lead a mile away. Or the physics of glass used to make the scope. Or the... you get my point(hopefully).

robertthebard wrote...

 If something is "little more than..." then there is something else to it besides the descriptor used. 

Only if its being used in a sarcastic manner. If you say that a sniper rifle is just 'a way to reach out and touch someone', and you mean it literally, then your an idiot that doesnt know what it does.

Modifié par BigBadMammogram, 15 août 2012 - 11:47 .

[robertthebard]

BigBadMammogram wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

So tell me, what is the other function of a sniper rifle?  Really, that's all they do, reach out and fatally touch someone.

 
Yeah, thats kinda the important part left out, which makes the statement ridiculous. Not to mention the advanced physiscs required to accuretly hurl a chunk of lead a mile away. Or the physics of glass used to make the scope. Or the... you get my point(hopefully).

robertthebard wrote...

 If something is "little more than..." then there is something else to it besides the descriptor used. 

Only if its being used in a sarcastic manner. If you say that a sniper rifle is just 'a way to reach out and touch someone', and you mean it literally, then your an idiot that doesnt know what it does.

As I said in the part you snipped out, it doesn't have to be sarcastic understatement, it could just simply be an understatement.  It's not like SC is forthcoming with any details it doesn't feel we need to know, and will shut down some inquiries out of hand, such as discussion of it's creators.  There's surprisingly little exposition in it's "famous last words" spiel, so understating something like the Crucible wouldn't be surprising.

[BigBadMammogram]

robertthebard wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

So tell me, what is the other function of a sniper rifle?  Really, that's all they do, reach out and fatally touch someone.

 
Yeah, thats kinda the important part left out, which makes the statement ridiculous. Not to mention the advanced physiscs required to accuretly hurl a chunk of lead a mile away. Or the physics of glass used to make the scope. Or the... you get my point(hopefully).

robertthebard wrote...

 If something is "little more than..." then there is something else to it besides the descriptor used. 

Only if its being used in a sarcastic manner. If you say that a sniper rifle is just 'a way to reach out and touch someone', and you mean it literally, then your an idiot that doesnt know what it does.

As I said in the part you snipped out, it doesn't have to be sarcastic understatement, it could just simply be an understatement.  It's not like SC is forthcoming with any details it doesn't feel we need to know, and will shut down some inquiries out of hand, such as discussion of it's creators.  There's surprisingly little exposition in it's "famous last words" spiel, so understating something like the Crucible wouldn't be surprising.

The only time you make a huge understatement like that is when your trying to be sarcastic, and starbrat was not trying to be sarcastic. I can't think of any reason you would tell someone that a car is 'little more than a seat' without wanting to be sarcastic. Telling someone that a car is 'little more than a seat' without being sarcastic is completely pointless, because you basically just told them nothing, which would be another example of bad writing.

[Darth Death]

What did the previous races intended by constructing the crucible?

[robertthebard]

BigBadMammogram wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

So tell me, what is the other function of a sniper rifle?  Really, that's all they do, reach out and fatally touch someone.

 
Yeah, thats kinda the important part left out, which makes the statement ridiculous. Not to mention the advanced physiscs required to accuretly hurl a chunk of lead a mile away. Or the physics of glass used to make the scope. Or the... you get my point(hopefully).

robertthebard wrote...

 If something is "little more than..." then there is something else to it besides the descriptor used. 

Only if its being used in a sarcastic manner. If you say that a sniper rifle is just 'a way to reach out and touch someone', and you mean it literally, then your an idiot that doesnt know what it does.

As I said in the part you snipped out, it doesn't have to be sarcastic understatement, it could just simply be an understatement.  It's not like SC is forthcoming with any details it doesn't feel we need to know, and will shut down some inquiries out of hand, such as discussion of it's creators.  There's surprisingly little exposition in it's "famous last words" spiel, so understating something like the Crucible wouldn't be surprising.

The only time you make a huge understatement like that is when your trying to be sarcastic, and starbrat was not trying to be sarcastic. I can't think of any reason you would tell someone that a car is 'little more than a seat' without wanting to be sarcastic. Telling someone that a car is 'little more than a seat' without being sarcastic is completely pointless, because you basically just told them nothing, which would be another example of bad writing.

Sarcastic, or misleading?  Again, some of the info we have on the Crucible says it's capable of unquantifiable levels of destruction, according to Liara.  So even with just this, saying "little more" seems out of place, or to at least be understating the facts.  Because if it's a power source, there's nothing little about it.  (pun intended)

[BigBadMammogram]

robertthebard wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

So tell me, what is the other function of a sniper rifle?  Really, that's all they do, reach out and fatally touch someone.

 
Yeah, thats kinda the important part left out, which makes the statement ridiculous. Not to mention the advanced physiscs required to accuretly hurl a chunk of lead a mile away. Or the physics of glass used to make the scope. Or the... you get my point(hopefully).

robertthebard wrote...

 If something is "little more than..." then there is something else to it besides the descriptor used. 

Only if its being used in a sarcastic manner. If you say that a sniper rifle is just 'a way to reach out and touch someone', and you mean it literally, then your an idiot that doesnt know what it does.

As I said in the part you snipped out, it doesn't have to be sarcastic understatement, it could just simply be an understatement.  It's not like SC is forthcoming with any details it doesn't feel we need to know, and will shut down some inquiries out of hand, such as discussion of it's creators.  There's surprisingly little exposition in it's "famous last words" spiel, so understating something like the Crucible wouldn't be surprising.

The only time you make a huge understatement like that is when your trying to be sarcastic, and starbrat was not trying to be sarcastic. I can't think of any reason you would tell someone that a car is 'little more than a seat' without wanting to be sarcastic. Telling someone that a car is 'little more than a seat' without being sarcastic is completely pointless, because you basically just told them nothing, which would be another example of bad writing.

Sarcastic, or misleading?  Again, some of the info we have on the Crucible says it's capable of unquantifiable levels of destruction, according to Liara.  So even with just this, saying "little more" seems out of place, or to at least be understating the facts.  Because if it's a power source, there's nothing little about it.  (pun intended)

Big difference between 'little more than a power source', and a 'little power source'. Now your just twisting words around to try to... actually I have no idea what the point your trying to make is.

Darth Death wrote...

What did the previous races intended by constructing the crucible?

They inteded to do something to the reapers. They could have been trying to make the reapers stoned for all we know.

[Darth Death]

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

What did the previous races intended by constructing the crucible?

They inteded to do something to the reapers. They could have been trying to make the reapers stoned for all we know.

So that's left to our imagination? Considering the crucible supplies three options to shep at the end, did the previous races truly intend to control, synthesis, or destroy the reapers? 

[BigBadMammogram]

Darth Death wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

What did the previous races intended by constructing the crucible?

They inteded to do something to the reapers. They could have been trying to make the reapers stoned for all we know.

So that's left to our imagination? Considering the crucible supplies three options to shep at the end, did the previous races truly intend to control, synthesis, or destroy the reapers? 

I dont know, but that is a good question to ask. If we knew that, we could easily figure out who's offering the options.

[The Spamming Troll]

BigBadMammogram wrote...
They could have been trying to make the reapers stoned for all we know.

id want baked harbinger to assume control of stuff.

with the synthesis ending harbinger could assume control of EVERYTHING. thatd be hilarious.

imagin a toaster half way through toasting a peice oASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL......YOUR TOAST IS DONE, SHEPARD.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 16 août 2012 - 02:21 .

[robertthebard]

BigBadMammogram wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

So tell me, what is the other function of a sniper rifle?  Really, that's all they do, reach out and fatally touch someone.

 
Yeah, thats kinda the important part left out, which makes the statement ridiculous. Not to mention the advanced physiscs required to accuretly hurl a chunk of lead a mile away. Or the physics of glass used to make the scope. Or the... you get my point(hopefully).

robertthebard wrote...

 If something is "little more than..." then there is something else to it besides the descriptor used. 

Only if its being used in a sarcastic manner. If you say that a sniper rifle is just 'a way to reach out and touch someone', and you mean it literally, then your an idiot that doesnt know what it does.

As I said in the part you snipped out, it doesn't have to be sarcastic understatement, it could just simply be an understatement.  It's not like SC is forthcoming with any details it doesn't feel we need to know, and will shut down some inquiries out of hand, such as discussion of it's creators.  There's surprisingly little exposition in it's "famous last words" spiel, so understating something like the Crucible wouldn't be surprising.

The only time you make a huge understatement like that is when your trying to be sarcastic, and starbrat was not trying to be sarcastic. I can't think of any reason you would tell someone that a car is 'little more than a seat' without wanting to be sarcastic. Telling someone that a car is 'little more than a seat' without being sarcastic is completely pointless, because you basically just told them nothing, which would be another example of bad writing.

Sarcastic, or misleading?  Again, some of the info we have on the Crucible says it's capable of unquantifiable levels of destruction, according to Liara.  So even with just this, saying "little more" seems out of place, or to at least be understating the facts.  Because if it's a power source, there's nothing little about it.  (pun intended)

Big difference between 'little more than a power source', and a 'little power source'. Now your just twisting words around to try to... actually I have no idea what the point your trying to make is.

Darth Death wrote...

What did the previous races intended by constructing the crucible?

They inteded to do something to the reapers. They could have been trying to make the reapers stoned for all we know.

Check out this video at 7:25, check out the line, it confirms that little more does mean there's more to it.

[Mobius-Silent]

The following interpretations allow the ending to make sense, are supported, and IMHO are sensible conclusions to make given the EC. You are quite welcome to have different opinions on these interpretations, but if _your_ interpretation makes the ending not make sense then you should consider that _perhaps_ you are mistaken.

• 1. The Catalyst and the Reapers were created by the same race (The Leviathans)
• 2. The Reapers were simple synthetics made in the image of their creators
• 3. The Catalyst was created due to one or more synthetic rebellions (Most likely the Reapers themselves)
• 4. The Catalyst was created with a very specific purpose, and most likely with many safeguards to prevent it rebelling.
• 5. The Catalyst was built with tech that allowed it to assume control of the Reapers
• 6. Given the information and abilities the Catalyst had, it _could not_ solve the problem (create peace) in any way that the creators would approve of.
• 7. "The cycle" looks very much like what you get when you give a emotionless intellect a problem and give it very specific restrictions on what it must maximise and what it must minimise.
• 8. In lots of AI-based sci-fi the "first law" for AI safety is "A robot(AI) may not injure a human being(organic sapient) or, through inaction, allow a human being(organic sapient) to come to harm." any AI that expected to be capable of working with organic sapients during a time of war _must_ have a modified or removed "or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm" clause (Azimov raises this point frequently in his fiction and the consequences of this).
• 9. If the Catalyst can "allow" harm then it _can_ assume control of the Reapers, adjust their motivations so they too need to promote peace. The "allow" then to act (They were killers before and they remain killers after). Organics are harvested and their minds and DNA stored (If they capitulate) the more they resist, the fewer are stored complete and more are stored as just DNA echos of experience. (Hence Harbingers line "If you continue to resist, the will be a cost")
• 10. The "Virtual aliens" in ME1 illustrate that it is _possible_ to somewhat simulate organic minds (I'd argue there were probably missing emotions, but that is baseless speculation). If the Leviathan's viewed this as "not death" then the Catalyst could view it the same way, if a culture _could_ resume (in a simulation) but is not _currently_ being simulated, just stored, then this could legitimately be considered peace by an amoral, empathyless AI.
• 11. The Catalyst is bound by many more restriction to it's actions that the Reapers are, this is why the Catalyst didn't intervene in ME1, and why the Catalyst (in general) _never_ intervenes because it is _very_ limited in what it can an can't do due to its programming. it is not the puppet master, it is more the "wind them up and watch them go"-type.
• 12. The Crucible is a giant power source that allows the ME field generators in the relay network to perform ME field nanosurgery at a galactic scale. The nature of the surgery depends on the choice made in the ending. "Control" results in virtually no physical change hence the Citadel survives intact
• 13. Synthetics do not have "feelings" they are sapient (reasoning persons) but not sentient (reasoning and feeing persons) this is why they have problems understanding the value of individual consciousnesses and sentient organic life in general.
• 14. Organics envy synthetics lack of mortality and their ability to self-modify. (Hence why synthesis is stated to be a solution: Synthetics gain feelings (sentience) and organics gain a framework with comparable capabilities to synthetics
• 15. The _moment_ the crucible connects the Catalyst can see and understand what it does, the software is simple in comparison, as the Catalyst says that now it knows synthesis is possible it is certain that it is inevitable.
• 16. The missing part that the Catalyst didn't understand about synthesis is that simply merging synthetic and organics isn't good enough, the Catalyst wasn't aware of what synthetics were missing, it didn't understand the value of "feelings" because it didn't have them and couldn't conceive of a way that they could be given to synthetics.
• 17. The critical component of the synthesis system in the Crucible is the "willing donor" an emotional template for the framework. Hence why "it can't be forced" but it's the donor that can't be forced not the recipient.
• 18. this is why all the Reaper creations are nightmares, their idea of unity is simply forcing organics into a synthetic-like paradigm, without empathy and feeling this process is archetypal horror, even if it is logical.
• 19. Given that the Catalyst sees the options available but is unable to activate the combined device itself it is _bound_ to simply explain the available options. Much in the same way it would have acted when it was first created, it bears no ill will toward anyone, it is incapable of it (Save for the frustration caused in "refuse")

It makes sense, it's not the ending I wanted, and it wasn't implemented well (even the improvement of the EC were limited by the scope of the things they could change) but it _is_ consistent with ME lore and the motivations for the involved parties _are_ now reasonable in the context of the story (save for Fridge Logic like "Why didn't the Reapers go for the Citadel first" etc etc)

Geneaux486 wrote...
Hey Mobius, how've you been?

Better since the EC slaughtered IT. Also happy that people got some use out of the end-choice-dais-comes-from-crucible-nubbin image I made a while back.

Modifié par Mobius-Silent, 16 août 2012 - 10:03 .

[Xandurpein]

I think that the sentence in the Extended Cut about the crucible just being a giant battery is a completely confusing statement. Earlier in the game it's explained that we need to connect the Crucible to the Citadel, because it needs the giant power source the Citadel represents. I always thought that it made much more sense if Crucible had been a giant gun barrel and the Citadel was the power source. If the Crucible is just a battery, and it's obvious from the visuals that the Crucible is also the gun barrel, then why did it need to dock with the Citadel in the first place?

[Mazebook]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Also happy that people got some use out of the end-choice-dais-comes-from-crucible-nubbin image I made a while back.

you were the guy...cool...thanks by the way.

[Darth Death]

Xandurpein wrote...

I think that the sentence in the Extended Cut about the crucible just being a giant battery is a completely confusing statement. Earlier in the game it's explained that we need to connect the Crucible to the Citadel, because it needs the giant power source the Citadel represents. I always thought that it made much more sense if Crucible had been a giant gun barrel and the Citadel was the power source. If the Crucible is just a battery, and it's obvious from the visuals that the Crucible is also the gun barrel, then why did it need to dock with the Citadel in the first place?

After watching the EC vid again, I forgot the mass relays are also connected to the citadel & crucible. So it looks like this: Citadel + Crucible + Mass relays = 3 new solutions. Now adding on to more questions, what did the previous races desire by connecting the crucible to the mass relays? What did they hope to achieve by doing this?   

Modifié par Darth Death, 16 août 2012 - 11:31 .

[robertthebard]

Darth Death wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

I think that the sentence in the Extended Cut about the crucible just being a giant battery is a completely confusing statement. Earlier in the game it's explained that we need to connect the Crucible to the Citadel, because it needs the giant power source the Citadel represents. I always thought that it made much more sense if Crucible had been a giant gun barrel and the Citadel was the power source. If the Crucible is just a battery, and it's obvious from the visuals that the Crucible is also the gun barrel, then why did it need to dock with the Citadel in the first place?

After watching the EC vid again, I forgot the mass relays are also connected to the citadel & crucible. So it looks like this: Citadel + Crucible + Mass relays = 3 new solutions. Now adding on to more questions, what did the previous races desire by connecting the crucible to the mass relays? What did they hope to achieve by doing this?   

I think the problem is that we're looking at it as 1+1+1, instead of 3.  The sum is greater than the parts.  The options do not come from one part or another, but come as a result of the new whole.  This new whole affects the Catalyst differently, allowing for more solutions.

As to why it would need to connect, the Citadel and Mass Relays give it focus, or, more accurately, a way to channel the energy.  The New Whole created by joining them gives it different ways to channel the energy.  In principle, it works the same way as I figured it would if it was just a Reaper Virus Distribution Node.  At first, that's what I figured it would be, and that we'd have to take to each system and fire it.  Then it's discovered that the Citadel was the Catalyst.  Since I already knew that the Citadel is tied directly to the Relays, it meant that by joining them, we could fire it once, and hit all the systems at the same time, which it actually does do, just not in the way I expected, unless you choose Destroy, anyway, then it does pretty much what I thought it was going to do from the outset.  Food for thought.

[Darth Death]

robertthebard wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

I think that the sentence in the Extended Cut about the crucible just being a giant battery is a completely confusing statement. Earlier in the game it's explained that we need to connect the Crucible to the Citadel, because it needs the giant power source the Citadel represents. I always thought that it made much more sense if Crucible had been a giant gun barrel and the Citadel was the power source. If the Crucible is just a battery, and it's obvious from the visuals that the Crucible is also the gun barrel, then why did it need to dock with the Citadel in the first place?

After watching the EC vid again, I forgot the mass relays are also connected to the citadel & crucible. So it looks like this: Citadel + Crucible + Mass relays = 3 new solutions. Now adding on to more questions, what did the previous races desire by connecting the crucible to the mass relays? What did they hope to achieve by doing this?   

I think the problem is that we're looking at it as 1+1+1, instead of 3.  The sum is greater than the parts.  The options do not come from one part or another, but come as a result of the new whole.  This new whole affects the Catalyst differently, allowing for more solutions.

It somewhat does. One component without the other will not create any new solutions. Example: Citadel + mass relays = No new solution, Citadel + Crucible = No new solution, Crucible + mass relays = No new solution. The Citadel, mass relays, and crucible all have to be involve together in order to obtain a new solution, which also works as a whole. 

As to why it would need to connect, the Citadel and Mass Relays give it focus, or, more accurately, a way to channel the energy.  The New Whole created by joining them gives it different ways to channel the energy.  In principle, it works the same way as I figured it would if it was just a Reaper Virus Distribution Node.  At first, that's what I figured it would be, and that we'd have to take to each system and fire it.  Then it's discovered that the Citadel was the Catalyst.  Since I already knew that the Citadel is tied directly to the Relays, it meant that by joining them, we could fire it once, and hit all the systems at the same time, which it actually does do, just not in the way I expected, unless you choose Destroy, anyway, then it does pretty much what I thought it was going to do from the outset.  Food for thought.

I meant what did the previous races intended to do with the reapers by using such extravagant means? Remember, 3 solutions are given: Destroy, synthesis, & control. Did they have this concept in mind? Were they planning to control, synthesis, destroy the reapers?

Modifié par Darth Death, 16 août 2012 - 01:11 .

[robertthebard]

Darth Death wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

I think that the sentence in the Extended Cut about the crucible just being a giant battery is a completely confusing statement. Earlier in the game it's explained that we need to connect the Crucible to the Citadel, because it needs the giant power source the Citadel represents. I always thought that it made much more sense if Crucible had been a giant gun barrel and the Citadel was the power source. If the Crucible is just a battery, and it's obvious from the visuals that the Crucible is also the gun barrel, then why did it need to dock with the Citadel in the first place?

After watching the EC vid again, I forgot the mass relays are also connected to the citadel & crucible. So it looks like this: Citadel + Crucible + Mass relays = 3 new solutions. Now adding on to more questions, what did the previous races desire by connecting the crucible to the mass relays? What did they hope to achieve by doing this?   

I think the problem is that we're looking at it as 1+1+1, instead of 3.  The sum is greater than the parts.  The options do not come from one part or another, but come as a result of the new whole.  This new whole affects the Catalyst differently, allowing for more solutions.

It somewhat does. One component without the other will not create any new solutions. Example: Citadel + mass relays = No new solution, Citadel + Crucible = No new solution, Crucible + mass relays = No new solution. The Citadel, mass relays, and crucible all have to be involve together in order to obtain a new solution, which also works as a whole. 

As to why it would need to connect, the Citadel and Mass Relays give it focus, or, more accurately, a way to channel the energy.  The New Whole created by joining them gives it different ways to channel the energy.  In principle, it works the same way as I figured it would if it was just a Reaper Virus Distribution Node.  At first, that's what I figured it would be, and that we'd have to take to each system and fire it.  Then it's discovered that the Citadel was the Catalyst.  Since I already knew that the Citadel is tied directly to the Relays, it meant that by joining them, we could fire it once, and hit all the systems at the same time, which it actually does do, just not in the way I expected, unless you choose Destroy, anyway, then it does pretty much what I thought it was going to do from the outset.  Food for thought.

I meant what did the previous races intended to do with the reapers by using such extravagant means? Remember, 3 solutions are given: Destroy, synthesis, & control. Did they have this concept in mind? Were they planning to control, synthesis, destroy the reapers?

I think they, just like us, would have been surprised by the options.  It's entirely possible that they didn't know that what happened would happen.

[Darth Death]

robertthebard wrote...

I think they, just like us, would have been surprised by the options.  It's entirely possible that they didn't know that what happened would happen.

And if that's the case, then what were they planning to achieve in the first place? What sort of victory then? LOL do you see what I mean? No one in ME knew how the crucible would resolve the reaper threat, but put 100% blind faith that it could bring victory. That's why the story imo was so silly. 

[dreman9999]

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Mobius-Silent wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...
No, thats an arbitrary rule assigned to the ENGLISH LANGUAGE. Typically, if you say something like 'a car is little more than a seat', people laugh, because sarcastic understatements are usually funny. Saying a .50 calibur sniper rifle is just 'a way to reach out and touch someone' is another understatment. Saying that something that can modify the most advanced AI in the galaxy is 'little more than a crude power supply' either cannot be taken seriously, or its horrible writing.

You could easily say "A car is little more than an internal combustion engine" because the rest is trivial in complexity.

In the same way, destroy, control and synthesis involve only three things

1. Enough power
2. Software 
3. Large enough Mass effect field generators

That is _all_ thats needed. in a situation like that it would be perfectly resonable to say that the Cruble is "Little more that a power source" because that "little more" is the software, dwarfed in complexity by the power supply and the field emmiters but still part of the Crucible.

Simply put, as poorly written as the end of ME3 is, it _can_ make sense after the EC, if you choose to ignore those elements that _let_ the EC make sense that of course, it will seem to make less sense...

No, saying a dirtbike is 'little more than a combustion engine' is accurate, saying that about a car is silly. Believe it or not, the engine is not the most complicated part.

And really big mass effect field generators would not give you the ability to pull off synthesis. How does a mass effect field rewrite synthetics beings? Or DNA? It doesnt, it just changes gravity, and lets you push or pull things around.

For the other two, sure, power and software are the only thing that is required. So why are they brand new, recently created options? The citadel was already a giant mass effect relay, so it had at least enough power to destroy any reaper nearby, and the starbrat can already control the reapers.

The engine is theonly partofthe car that counts it as a car. It matters not if it's not them most complex pat...It the only part the is required for a carto be a car.
Same concept.

[ZajoE38]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

The following interpretations allow the ending to make sense, are supported, and IMHO are sensible conclusions to make given the EC. You are quite welcome to have different opinions on these interpretations, but if _your_ interpretation makes the ending not make sense then you should consider that _perhaps_ you are mistaken.

Finally someone smart

[robertthebard]

Darth Death wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

I think they, just like us, would have been surprised by the options.  It's entirely possible that they didn't know that what happened would happen.

And if that's the case, then what were they planning to achieve in the first place? What sort of victory then? LOL do you see what I mean? No one in ME knew how the crucible would resolve the reaper threat, but put 100% blind faith that it could bring victory. That's why the story imo was so silly. 

They built it to destroy the Reapers, the other options could just as easily be "side effects" of the New Whole.  It wouldn't be the first time that new tech introduced unforseen results.

[Darth Death]

robertthebard wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

I think they, just like us, would have been surprised by the options.  It's entirely possible that they didn't know that what happened would happen.

And if that's the case, then what were they planning to achieve in the first place? What sort of victory then? LOL do you see what I mean? No one in ME knew how the crucible would resolve the reaper threat, but put 100% blind faith that it could bring victory. That's why the story imo was so silly. 

They built it to destroy the Reapers, the other options could just as easily be "side effects" of the New Whole.  It wouldn't be the first time that new tech introduced unforseen results.

Other races worked on the crucible too, & they very well may have had different point of views to deal with the reapers other than destroying them. We'll never know for certain. I just find the crucible & its "side effect" options to be too convenient. Conventional victory would've been better, if made possible. 

[ZajoE38]

Have you ever heard of switching priorities? Hint - it happens everyday. If you want to have a nap and you friend will call you, he will switch variables, creates a new possibilities. First you were boring and had no other options, now the friend (Crucible) gives you new options - drinking, cinema, fishing.. etc. It will also switch your priorities, you will want to have fun rather than be bored. Same happened with Catalyst he had no other options, but after he realizes what can Crucible do, he was offered with new options. He switched his priorities - suddenly it is better for entire conflict to end it permanently by synthesis. He also had a new variabilities/options, but couldn't do them, he can't interact with physical world, he's software right. So he tried to convince Shepard that synthesis is the best option for everyone. In the end it's up to Shepard/player to consider those decisions. It's easy logics.

[robertthebard]

dreman9999 wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...

Mobius-Silent wrote...

BigBadMammogram wrote...
No, thats an arbitrary rule assigned to the ENGLISH LANGUAGE. Typically, if you say something like 'a car is little more than a seat', people laugh, because sarcastic understatements are usually funny. Saying a .50 calibur sniper rifle is just 'a way to reach out and touch someone' is another understatment. Saying that something that can modify the most advanced AI in the galaxy is 'little more than a crude power supply' either cannot be taken seriously, or its horrible writing.

You could easily say "A car is little more than an internal combustion engine" because the rest is trivial in complexity.

In the same way, destroy, control and synthesis involve only three things

1. Enough power
2. Software 
3. Large enough Mass effect field generators

That is _all_ thats needed. in a situation like that it would be perfectly resonable to say that the Cruble is "Little more that a power source" because that "little more" is the software, dwarfed in complexity by the power supply and the field emmiters but still part of the Crucible.

Simply put, as poorly written as the end of ME3 is, it _can_ make sense after the EC, if you choose to ignore those elements that _let_ the EC make sense that of course, it will seem to make less sense...

No, saying a dirtbike is 'little more than a combustion engine' is accurate, saying that about a car is silly. Believe it or not, the engine is not the most complicated part.

And really big mass effect field generators would not give you the ability to pull off synthesis. How does a mass effect field rewrite synthetics beings? Or DNA? It doesnt, it just changes gravity, and lets you push or pull things around.

For the other two, sure, power and software are the only thing that is required. So why are they brand new, recently created options? The citadel was already a giant mass effect relay, so it had at least enough power to destroy any reaper nearby, and the starbrat can already control the reapers.

The engine is theonly partofthe car that counts it as a car. It matters not if it's not them most complex pat...It the only part the is required for a carto be a car.
Same concept.

This is an inaccurate assessment.  By this logic, having an engine means that you have a car.  I can pull the engine out of my car today, and it would still be a car.  It's not going anywhere under it's own power, but it's still a car.  However, pulling the engine does not suddenly give me two cars.

Regarding the Relays, they are a means to transfer power, by definition.  Relay.  It's interesting to note that a couple of the given definitions actually fit the given function of the Mass Relays.  If Signal A is passed to the Relay, it transmits Signal A to other Relays in the chain, and this is what we see happening on the Galaxy Map in any ending where we actually choose something.  This is also how the Reaper IFF(groan)functions differently from other IFF's that trigger relays.  It transmits a different signal that triggers different responses, in this case, tighter control of the destination.  So no, the ability to transmit a signal, instead of a ship doesn't conflict with the design.

[robertthebard]

Darth Death wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

I think they, just like us, would have been surprised by the options.  It's entirely possible that they didn't know that what happened would happen.

And if that's the case, then what were they planning to achieve in the first place? What sort of victory then? LOL do you see what I mean? No one in ME knew how the crucible would resolve the reaper threat, but put 100% blind faith that it could bring victory. That's why the story imo was so silly. 

They built it to destroy the Reapers, the other options could just as easily be "side effects" of the New Whole.  It wouldn't be the first time that new tech introduced unforseen results.

Other races worked on the crucible too, & they very well may have had different point of views to deal with the reapers other than destroying them. We'll never know for certain. I just find the crucible & its "side effect" options to be too convenient. Conventional victory would've been better, if made possible. 

I don't disagree.  While it may seem like I'm supporting the endings, I tend to quit in London, and wish there was an option to export from there, as I see even surviving the laser blast to be a contrivance of unquantifiable magnitude.  I am, however, looking at this from a position of "I can see this, or that".