Jonata wrote...
I genuinely do not understand why explaining that you can alter the Galaxy's DNA but not explaining why a platform comes up is considered a "writing fail" from BioWare.
LOL but that's the thing, why would any logically, sane person put their faith (time/resources) into a super-weapon they're not sure how to use or how it even works? If they couldn't test it, then why have any faith it'd work at all?AlanC9 wrote...
Ticonderoga117 wrote...
D24O wrote...
How f***ing stupid would all of the Galaxy's engineers have to be to not notice mechanisms to control the Reapers, destroy all synthetic life, and to do whatever the f*** Synthesis does.
About as stupid as not testing a device that hinges the entire plan to save the galaxy together.
Oh wait...
Well, they didn't actually have a way to test it, did they?
Darth Death wrote...
LOL but that's the thing, why would any logically, sane person put their faith (time/resources) into a super-weapon they're not sure how to use or how it even works? If they couldn't test it, then why have any faith it'd work at all?AlanC9 wrote...
Ticonderoga117 wrote...
D24O wrote...
How f***ing stupid would all of the Galaxy's engineers have to be to not notice mechanisms to control the Reapers, destroy all synthetic life, and to do whatever the f*** Synthesis does.
About as stupid as not testing a device that hinges the entire plan to save the galaxy together.
Oh wait...
Well, they didn't actually have a way to test it, did they?
Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 14 août 2012 - 04:44 .
Except that the only time it's considered "a battery" is by SC. In the initial discussion with Hackett, it's an immense weapon capable of unquantifiable levels of destruction. That's a lot of destruction considering the existing tech of the day: Thanix Cannons, Cains. You see, if I'm going to look at it as presented, pre SC, then the Citadel is the battery. This is what Vendetta indicates the Catalyst is, and a Catalyst is something that makes something work. In a flashlight, the catalyst is a battery, or multiple batteries. I can sit here all day long with a rifle, but it's not dangerous until I load it. Sure, I can "pistol whip" people with it, but if I want it to scare a large number of people, it's got to be loaded.Ticonderoga117 wrote...
Jonata wrote...
I genuinely do not understand why explaining that you can alter the Galaxy's DNA but not explaining why a platform comes up is considered a "writing fail" from BioWare.
He doesn't even explain the galaxy re-writing.
The energy needed to do that is IMMENSE!
Even the "nothing but a battery" Crucible would e hard-press to do that for a few clusters.
Adanu wrote...
A power source that gave him new options. IT. CREATED. NEW. OPTIONS.
You whiners are just trying to pick apart every little thing even if IN GAME DIRECTLY CONTRIDICTS you.
Erm...because they had zero choice; building the Crucible was the only straw they had to clutch at.Darth Death wrote...
LOL but that's the thing, why would any logically, sane person put their faith (time/resources) into a super-weapon they're not sure how to use or how it even works? If they couldn't test it, then why have any faith it'd work at all?
Modifié par KoorahUK, 14 août 2012 - 04:30 .
And that's why ME3's story is silly. Thanks for your confirmation.KoorahUK wrote...
Erm...because they had zero choice; building the Crucible was the only straw they had to clutch at.Darth Death wrote...
LOL but that's the thing, why would any logically, sane person put their faith (time/resources) into a super-weapon they're not sure how to use or how it even works? If they couldn't test it, then why have any faith it'd work at all?
Put yourself in their shoes; you can:Unless you are aware of some other solution, if you would not choose option 4, well, I'm glad you aren't Admiral Hackett
- Do nothing, accept the inevitability of your ultimate destruction and submissively die
- Launch a conventional offensive against the reapers which you know to be utterly futile and heroically die
- Run to the furthest corners of the galaxy to defer the inevitable and eventually die
- Build the Crucible despite not knowing for sure if it will work and possibly live.
<_<Scientist: "The crucible has a lot of energy."KoorahUK wrote...
Actually I was attempting to highlight the narrative context which your assessment of what a 'sane' person would or would not choose to do in that situation completely ignores.
If you choose to view that as validation of your point of view, you go right ahead.
Random dude: "Really?"Random dude: "Is it a bomb?"
Scientist: "No, I don't believe so."Random dude: "So, how does it work?"Random dude: "Oh... Well, can it be tested?"
Random dude: "Oh..."Random dude: "Ever thought it could backfire on us? You know, wiping everyone out?"Scientist: "Maybe, but we're willing to risk it."
Random dude: "You don't say?"Random dude: "Was there any other race able to use the crucible before us successfully?"Scientist: "No, not to my knowledge... They all failed."Random dude: "Really now?"
Random dude: "So how will you know if the crucible is enough to beat the reapers?"Random dude: "Why so confident then?"Random dude: "Who's Mac?"
Harbinger: "HE'S THE AUTHOR OF MY PERFECTION."
Random dude: "Oh, right right. He wrote all of this... Everything is starting to make sense... A little. See ya."Modifié par Darth Death, 14 août 2012 - 06:26 .
Darth Death wrote...
<_<Scientist: "The crucible has a lot of energy."KoorahUK wrote...
Actually I was attempting to highlight the narrative context which your assessment of what a 'sane' person would or would not choose to do in that situation completely ignores.
If you choose to view that as validation of your point of view, you go right ahead.
<_<Scientist: "Yea..."
<_<Scientist: "No one knows yet..."
<_<Scientist: "We don't know how."
<_<Scientist: "...."
<_<Scientist: "Yea..."
<_<Scientist: "Yea..."
<_<Scientist: "Like I said, we don't know ok? Gosh!"
:innocent:Scientist: "Because I Believe in Mac."
* A wild harbinger appears!*
THE END...
Jonata wrote...
I genuinely do not understand why explaining that you can alter the Galaxy's DNA but not explaining why a platform comes up is considered a "writing fail" from BioWare.
Not quite the end. You missed the final exchange....Darth Death wrote...
<_<Scientist: "The crucible has a lot of energy."KoorahUK wrote...
Actually I was attempting to highlight the narrative context which your assessment of what a 'sane' person would or would not choose to do in that situation completely ignores.
If you choose to view that as validation of your point of view, you go right ahead.
<_<Scientist: "Yea..."
<_<Scientist: "No one knows yet..."
<_<Scientist: "We don't know how."
<_<Scientist: "...."
<_<Scientist: "Yea..."
<_<Scientist: "Yea..."
<_<Scientist: "Like I said, we don't know ok? Gosh!"
:innocent:Scientist: "Because I Believe in Mac."
* A wild harbinger appears!*
THE END...
Modifié par KoorahUK, 14 août 2012 - 07:55 .
More realistic exchange...KoorahUK wrote...
Not quite the end. You missed the final exchange....Darth Death wrote...
<_<Scientist: "The crucible has a lot of energy."KoorahUK wrote...
Actually I was attempting to highlight the narrative context which your assessment of what a 'sane' person would or would not choose to do in that situation completely ignores.
If you choose to view that as validation of your point of view, you go right ahead.
<_<Scientist: "Yea..."
<_<Scientist: "No one knows yet..."
<_<Scientist: "We don't know how."
<_<Scientist: "...."
<_<Scientist: "Yea..."
<_<Scientist: "Yea..."
<_<Scientist: "Like I said, we don't know ok? Gosh!"
:innocent:Scientist: "Because I Believe in Mac."
* A wild harbinger appears!*
THE END...
Random dude: My friend that is a terrible plan, a crazy plan, no sane person would do that. Whats the alternative?
Scientist: Erm well there is none so....extinction as a sentient species.
Random dude: Oh.
Scientist: So you gonna help or what?
Random dude: Guess so.
An interesting point & well worded. The concept of the crucible harmed my suspension of disbelief greatly that I couldn't take it seriously nor realistically, the motive or implications behind it.BigBadMammogram wrote...
I'm not arguing that conventional victory is possible(well, not here), but I am saying that humanity had more reason to believe in conventional victory than they had to believe the catalyst.
Boneyaards wrote...
Well let's look at it this way:
You have an Xbox 360 for example and we'll have it represent the citadel. It has no power to it, it's just a dead Xbox 360 sitting on your shelf that has no function to it. You can't turn it on, open the disc tray, or sync controllers, but since you've never seen an Xbox 360 with power, you don't even know that these options exist. Now let's assume that we gather the world's best scientists to develop a power source (The Crucible) that could get the Xbox working. You connect the power source to your Xbox 360 and it comes to life giving you these options that you have never seen before. You can now turn on your Xbox, open the disc tray, and sync controllers! Wow, options that you never even knew existed have now been created for you to choose from.
Modifié par BigBadMammogram, 14 août 2012 - 10:35 .
However, since OP claims that the crucible did not create these options, we have to assume that they were indeed already there, and so, hooking up the Crucible opened them up. I'd say that that's a fair, if simplistic analogy.BigBadMammogram wrote...
Boneyaards wrote...
Well let's look at it this way:
You have an Xbox 360 for example and we'll have it represent the citadel. It has no power to it, it's just a dead Xbox 360 sitting on your shelf that has no function to it. You can't turn it on, open the disc tray, or sync controllers, but since you've never seen an Xbox 360 with power, you don't even know that these options exist. Now let's assume that we gather the world's best scientists to develop a power source (The Crucible) that could get the Xbox working. You connect the power source to your Xbox 360 and it comes to life giving you these options that you have never seen before. You can now turn on your Xbox, open the disc tray, and sync controllers! Wow, options that you never even knew existed have now been created for you to choose from.
There's a few problems with that analogy. For one, the citadel is a giant mass effect relay, so it already has a power source. Two, the XBOX power source in no way changes the XBOX. Yes, it turns it on and makes it look like you have new options, but those options were always there. The catalyst specifically says 'the crucible changed me'. Three, the citadel is already turned on. So using your analogy, the xbox is already on, it just doesnt have enough power to do everything you want it to. So you already know what it can do, you just need to add power.
robertthebard wrote...
However, since OP claims that the crucible did not create these options, we have to assume that they were indeed already there, and so, hooking up the Crucible opened them up. I'd say that that's a fair, if simplistic analogy.BigBadMammogram wrote...
Boneyaards wrote...
Well let's look at it this way:
You have an Xbox 360 for example and we'll have it represent the citadel. It has no power to it, it's just a dead Xbox 360 sitting on your shelf that has no function to it. You can't turn it on, open the disc tray, or sync controllers, but since you've never seen an Xbox 360 with power, you don't even know that these options exist. Now let's assume that we gather the world's best scientists to develop a power source (The Crucible) that could get the Xbox working. You connect the power source to your Xbox 360 and it comes to life giving you these options that you have never seen before. You can now turn on your Xbox, open the disc tray, and sync controllers! Wow, options that you never even knew existed have now been created for you to choose from.
There's a few problems with that analogy. For one, the citadel is a giant mass effect relay, so it already has a power source. Two, the XBOX power source in no way changes the XBOX. Yes, it turns it on and makes it look like you have new options, but those options were always there. The catalyst specifically says 'the crucible changed me'. Three, the citadel is already turned on. So using your analogy, the xbox is already on, it just doesnt have enough power to do everything you want it to. So you already know what it can do, you just need to add power.
BigBadMammogram wrote...
robertthebard wrote...
However, since OP claims that the crucible did not create these options, we have to assume that they were indeed already there, and so, hooking up the Crucible opened them up. I'd say that that's a fair, if simplistic analogy.BigBadMammogram wrote...
Boneyaards wrote...
Well let's look at it this way:
You have an Xbox 360 for example and we'll have it represent the citadel. It has no power to it, it's just a dead Xbox 360 sitting on your shelf that has no function to it. You can't turn it on, open the disc tray, or sync controllers, but since you've never seen an Xbox 360 with power, you don't even know that these options exist. Now let's assume that we gather the world's best scientists to develop a power source (The Crucible) that could get the Xbox working. You connect the power source to your Xbox 360 and it comes to life giving you these options that you have never seen before. You can now turn on your Xbox, open the disc tray, and sync controllers! Wow, options that you never even knew existed have now been created for you to choose from.
There's a few problems with that analogy. For one, the citadel is a giant mass effect relay, so it already has a power source. Two, the XBOX power source in no way changes the XBOX. Yes, it turns it on and makes it look like you have new options, but those options were always there. The catalyst specifically says 'the crucible changed me'. Three, the citadel is already turned on. So using your analogy, the xbox is already on, it just doesnt have enough power to do everything you want it to. So you already know what it can do, you just need to add power.
Except the catalyst says that the crucible does create new options. Which basically screws the whole theory.
Boneyaards wrote...
BigBadMammogram wrote...
robertthebard wrote...
However, since OP claims that the crucible did not create these options, we have to assume that they were indeed already there, and so, hooking up the Crucible opened them up. I'd say that that's a fair, if simplistic analogy.BigBadMammogram wrote...
Boneyaards wrote...
Well let's look at it this way:
You have an Xbox 360 for example and we'll have it represent the citadel. It has no power to it, it's just a dead Xbox 360 sitting on your shelf that has no function to it. You can't turn it on, open the disc tray, or sync controllers, but since you've never seen an Xbox 360 with power, you don't even know that these options exist. Now let's assume that we gather the world's best scientists to develop a power source (The Crucible) that could get the Xbox working. You connect the power source to your Xbox 360 and it comes to life giving you these options that you have never seen before. You can now turn on your Xbox, open the disc tray, and sync controllers! Wow, options that you never even knew existed have now been created for you to choose from.
There's a few problems with that analogy. For one, the citadel is a giant mass effect relay, so it already has a power source. Two, the XBOX power source in no way changes the XBOX. Yes, it turns it on and makes it look like you have new options, but those options were always there. The catalyst specifically says 'the crucible changed me'. Three, the citadel is already turned on. So using your analogy, the xbox is already on, it just doesnt have enough power to do everything you want it to. So you already know what it can do, you just need to add power.
Except the catalyst says that the crucible does create new options. Which basically screws the whole theory.
It's possible the Catalyst never knew that these options were even possible. Then, once a mass amount of power was added, these options became available depsite never knowing about them before. In his eyes, they were created.
KoorahUK wrote...
Erm...because they had zero choice; building the Crucible was the only straw they had to clutch at.Darth Death wrote...
LOL but that's the thing, why would any logically, sane person put their faith (time/resources) into a super-weapon they're not sure how to use or how it even works? If they couldn't test it, then why have any faith it'd work at all?
Put yourself in their shoes; you can:Unless you are aware of some other solution, if you would not choose option 4, well, I'm glad you aren't Admiral Hackett
- Do nothing, accept the inevitability of your ultimate destruction and submissively die
- Launch a conventional offensive against the reapers which you know to be utterly futile and heroically die
- Run to the furthest corners of the galaxy to defer the inevitable and eventually die
- Build the Crucible despite not knowing for sure if it will work and possibly live.
Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 14 août 2012 - 11:28 .
The star child is utterly useless. Why he was written into existence is beyond me.BigBadMammogram wrote...
So the catalyst has been on the citadel for thousands of cycles, each roughly 50k years each, and he doesnt know everything about the citadel? Thats one hell of a stretch. On top of that, we know he already knows about synthesis, because he's tried it in the past.
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