304 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

DA2 had some problems but it still scored when it comes to the reason i play BioWare games. The companions. That's where they set themselves well apart from a lot of other games and though DA2 had missteps in a number of areas the companions were still top notch in my opinion.

[Realmzmaster]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Realmzmaster,

It is true that the best lie has a degree of truth... but in this case, there 359 other degrees to take into account to make sure we are pointing the right direction.

I doubt very much that the percentages he was using (mind you, these were only percentages given, not actual numbers) that they are looking at the number of playthroughs started, not the number of players. Since we don't know (since the presenter did not clarify or, if he did, no one in the media present clarified it in their articles) then it makes the entire chunk of data worthless to assume is correct, let alone extrapolate to infer customer satisfaction.

Ergo, DA:O was the best game to come out in a decade.

Data in and of itself is not useless. The information and conclusions that one may draw from it can be useless. The data itself is just a collection of numbers that have to be transformed into something that can be used. 

Statistics do not lie, but liars do use statistics.  I do not disagree that DAO is a great game. I have played it many times. I just have more fun playing DA2. 

I see that the OP is trying to prove a point. I simply see no reason to go through all the trouble. The agrument will change no ones mind. The dichotomy still remains. The fanbase remains split in regards to DA2.

I suspect that DA3 will disappoint  some (maybe many) gamers or it may not. It remains to be seen. 

I personally do not care about a particular genre. My primary concern is that the game be fun and it meets many of the criteria I want in a game. Call it whatever genre you wish Action-advenute, interactive movie, cosmic muffin or hairy thunderer.
 

[esper]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Realmzmaster,

It is true that the best lie has a degree of truth... but in this case, there 359 other degrees to take into account to make sure we are pointing the right direction.

I doubt very much that the percentages he was using (mind you, these were only percentages given, not actual numbers) that they are looking at the number of playthroughs started, not the number of players. Since we don't know (since the presenter did not clarify or, if he did, no one in the media present clarified it in their articles) then it makes the entire chunk of data worthless to assume is correct, let alone extrapolate to infer customer satisfaction.

Ergo, DA:O was the best game to come out in a decade.

Data in and of itself is not useless. The information and conclusions that one may draw from it can be useless. The data itself is just a collection of numbers that have to be transformed into something that can be used. 

Statistics do not lie, but liars do use statistics.  I do not disagree that DAO is a great game. I have played it many times. I just have more fun playing DA2. 

I see that the OP is trying to prove a point. I simply see no reason to go through all the trouble. The agrument will change no ones mind. The dichotomy still remains. The fanbase remains split in regards to DA2.

I suspect that DA3 will disappoint  some (maybe many) gamers or it may not. It remains to be seen. 

I personally do not care about a particular genre. My primary concern is that the game be fun and it meets many of the criteria I want in a game. Call it whatever genre you wish Action-advenute, interactive movie, cosmic muffin or hairy thunderer.
 

I kinda want to play the cosmic muffin and hairy thunderer genre... They sound fun.

But besides that I agree with your last sentence, genre be damned, I have fun while playing da2 hence I love. It is so simple.

[jillabender]

Realmzmaster wrote…

I see that the OP is trying to prove a point. I simply see no reason to go through all the trouble. The argument will change no ones mind. The dichotomy still remains. The fanbase remains split in regards to DA2.

Well said – that's what I was trying to convey as well.

[Pasquale1234]

Realmzmaster wrote...

I personally do not care about a particular genre. My primary concern is that the game be fun and it meets many of the criteria I want in a game. Call it whatever genre you wish Action-advenute, interactive movie, cosmic muffin or hairy thunderer.

One could say the same sorts of things about movies, music, TV, novels, or just about any sort of creative entertainment medium.  And I do understand that some creative works are difficult to categorize, and some of them could reasonably fit in more than one category - but I still think it's important to make a reasonable effort to label products accurately so consumers can make informed decisions.  There are some pretty valid reasons for the existence of labeling laws.

If I'm standing at the multiplex trying to choose from among an action flick, historical drama, comedy, romance, sci-fi, or horror flick, it's nice to have some idea what to expect from each of these genres.  On another occasion, I might need to decide whether to spend my evening at the local blues club, new age bar, symphony concert, techno disco, country saloon, or rock show - but I have some idea what to expect from each, and rightfully so.

Of course, none of those decisions have nearly the impact of a game purchase, because they all represent a couple of hours' worth of passive entertainment, and a game demands a lot more time and effort from me.  It's a lot easier to walk out of a $10 movie you aren't enjoying than it is to ditch a $60 game you've already spent 2 hours installing and patching and a couple more hours trying to learn how to play.

Lesson learned, though.  Research, read reviews, look at youtubes before purchase.  I'll not buy another game just because I love its predecessor.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Dragon Age Origins is still out selling and in most cases is still more expensive than Dragon Age 2.

That tells me everything I need to know about Dragon Age 2.

[ikaruga17]

lol how much effort do you need to complete Dragon Age 2 ?

you don't, you just bash some buttons.

Modifié par ikaruga17, 16 août 2012 - 02:02 .

[hussey 92]

ikaruga17 wrote...

lol how much effort do you need to complete Dragon Age 2 ?

you don't, you just bash some buttons.

more like one button

[Realmzmaster]

If that is how you play then go for it. My playstyle is different and requires more than pressing buttons. But to each there reach. YMMV.

[Realmzmaster]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

I personally do not care about a particular genre. My primary concern is that the game be fun and it meets many of the criteria I want in a game. Call it whatever genre you wish Action-advenute, interactive movie, cosmic muffin or hairy thunderer.

One could say the same sorts of things about movies, music, TV, novels, or just about any sort of creative entertainment medium.  And I do understand that some creative works are difficult to categorize, and some of them could reasonably fit in more than one category - but I still think it's important to make a reasonable effort to label products accurately so consumers can make informed decisions.  There are some pretty valid reasons for the existence of labeling laws.

If I'm standing at the multiplex trying to choose from among an action flick, historical drama, comedy, romance, sci-fi, or horror flick, it's nice to have some idea what to expect from each of these genres.  On another occasion, I might need to decide whether to spend my evening at the local blues club, new age bar, symphony concert, techno disco, country saloon, or rock show - but I have some idea what to expect from each, and rightfully so.

Of course, none of those decisions have nearly the impact of a game purchase, because they all represent a couple of hours' worth of passive entertainment, and a game demands a lot more time and effort from me.  It's a lot easier to walk out of a $10 movie you aren't enjoying than it is to ditch a $60 game you've already spent 2 hours installing and patching and a couple more hours trying to learn how to play.

Lesson learned, though.  Research, read reviews, look at youtubes before purchase.  I'll not buy another game just because I love its predecessor.

Labels are useful in some aspects, but many games span different genres. I really do not care because I play a variety of games from board wargames to computer games. Days of Decision and Rise and Fall of the Third Reich are both wargames and games of political maneuvering so it falls in both genres.

I always research my games so the genre itself does not matter to me. If a demo exists I try that first. If it is a game  that has been announced and it cataches my interest I will follow its development. I followed the  development of Armageddon Empires until it came out.
I followed DA2 the same way. I was not surpised by the changes. I followed Skyrim's development on and off since Oblivion. I did not like the changes which removed even more than Oblivion. The last TES game I liked was Morrowind and it had its problems. My friend had a copy of Skyrim on his PC so I tried it and that verfied my concern. Did not purchase Skyrim. 

I know people like labels to catagorize products. I care little for the label. Others YMMV.

[Sinuphro]

FieryDove wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

[I loved ME1's combat.  It was just about the perfect implementation of BioWare's traditional real-time-with-pause stat-driven gameplay presented through a shooter interface.

I was shocked when ME2 abandoned that design.

Me too. Sigh


To the OP:
Good try, but sorry. My 189 wardens trump your 6 Hawke's.

lol nice one

[Lotion Soronarr]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

andar91 wrote...

I think saying that it was more enjoyable is drawing rather a lot from just that statistic. For one thing, I think the length had a lot to do with it. Not to mention slightly easier gameplay from DA2.

If people enjoyed tedious game play, DAO would have more completions.  DAO was only longer because it was skewed toward pointless fights.  DAO had a much better combat to cutscene ratio.  I know I enjoyed DA2 more than DAO.  Not that I didn't like DAO, but DA2 was better for me.

You seem to forget that half of the world population is made of morons.

That's why buy and play endless CoD  and WoW clones. That's why DA2 survived in a sense.

DA2 was infirior to DAO in practicly every way.
And you talk about pointless fights and bring in DAO? Really? Raingin bandits from DA" don't count as "pointless fights" to you?

[Lotion Soronarr]

EntropicAngel wrote...

 Gosh, why do these people even BUY games if they aren't completing them...

You'd be surprised...
The majority of games will have similar (if not worse) stats in regards to game completion.

There's tons of games and time is limited. It's like being presented with a whole buffet of fine foods. Do you focus on just one cake or do you sample a bit for every dish?

I used to finish every game I had. These days? Not so much. Quite simply, something else comes along, and with my limited time I put the other game on hold. Not because they are bad, but because I already got a taste of them.

It's easier to put on hold if there is some design element that you don't like. I had to force myself to finish DA2. Granted, after the Landsmeet I wasn't so into finishing DA:O for some reason, but for DA2 that state began long before the game reached it's half.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Preston9000 wrote...

Honestly, this doesn't surprise me. Between the sluggish combat animations, impersonal costumes, and confusingly over designed morality choices, Dragon Age Origns was quite a tedious game to play. I also found the addition of more bisexual love interests to be quite motivating in the grind to complete the game. Alistair's narrow minded sexual preferences frustrated me even more than the Fade level.

1) DA2 combat animations are moronicly retarded

2) Impersonal? I customize their costimes. They are personal to me.

3) LOL.

4) LOL.


EDIT:
You don't mean personal. I guess you mean "unique". Which is overrated
crap. Why does everyone want to be a super-special-unique flower? Go out
there one the streets. Show me one person that is dressed so uniquely
that no one else dresses like him and I'll show you a person that is NOT used as a role-model for anything.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 16 août 2012 - 11:59 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Indeed what Lotion said.

[Sejborg]

hussey 92 wrote...

ikaruga17 wrote...

lol how much effort do you need to complete Dragon Age 2 ?

you don't, you just bash some buttons.

more like one button

This is true. I made a drinking bird beat the game for me. 

[LPPrince]

Dragon Age Origins was a longer game. It took more time to beat, thus its expected that more people would wizz by in DA2 than take the time to go through DAO.

/logic

[Jerrybnsn]

Beerfish wrote...

DA2 had some problems but it still scored when it comes to the reason i play BioWare games. The companions. That's where they set themselves well apart from a lot of other games and though DA2 had missteps in a number of areas the companions were still top notch in my opinion.

Is that why Anders was voted most likely to be killed over and over again?

[The Hierophant]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

DA2 had some problems but it still scored when it comes to the reason i play BioWare games. The companions. That's where they set themselves well apart from a lot of other games and though DA2 had missteps in a number of areas the companions were still top notch in my opinion.

Is that why Anders was voted most likely to be killed over and over again?

DA2 Anders had to have been one of the worst character assassinations i've seen in gaming in recent years.

[Jerrybnsn]

Ivandra Ceruden wrote...

*reads topic* Boy, are we getting bored waiting for info on DA 3, eh? >_>

I've been reading up on the new console generations that are looking at coming out at Christmas of 2013.  I wonder if such a delay for DA3 is that they are just planning to release the game for the XBox 720 and PS4 sometime in the spring or fall of 2014? 

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 16 août 2012 - 02:10 .

[Pasquale1234]

Realmzmaster wrote...
I always research my games so the genre itself does not matter to me. If a demo exists I try that first. If it is a game  that has been announced and it cataches my interest I will follow its development. I followed the  development of Armageddon Empires until it came out.

I don't usually have a lot of time to spend keeping up with the latest gaming news - and it isn't easy to wade through marketing hype and awesome demos to find out much about the real substance of a product.

Question - do demos typically contain some sample scenario to play through, or...?  Also, do you feel that most demos do a good job of representing what the actual game is like?

[Fast Jimmy]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Ivandra Ceruden wrote...

*reads topic* Boy, are we getting bored waiting for info on DA 3, eh? >_>

I've been reading up on the new console generations that are looking at coming out at Christmas of 2013.  I wonder if such a delay for DA3 is that they are just planning to release the game for the XBox 720 and PS4 sometime in the spring or fall of 2014? 

I'm torn about this. On one hand, all that extra processing power could bridge the gap between what PC players are clamouring for and what the consoles are limited to.

But on the other hand... I'm not going to lie when I say I want DA3 sooner than that. And, not to mention, the first games out on new consoles very rarely take anywhere near full advantage of the new technology. I'd like to see, personally, DA3 come out next summer or Fall (or even winter, honestly) on the old consoles, then have DA4 (if its made) really spend their entire development cycle with the new console power in mind. Making a game now, then essentially doing a port to the new console platform in time for early 2014 wouldn't be as good as developing the game with full working knowledge of the next gen console's hardward and abilities.

In short... DA3 for 360, DA4 for 720.

[Giltspur]

There are a lot of ways to interpret data.  And I'm no expert on it.  But hey I'll try!

The data comes from customers.  The customers for DAO and DA2 are different. What causes a DAO customer to not be a DA2 customer, what causes non-DAO customer to become a DA2 customer and what causes a DAO player to also be a DA2 player are important considerations when trying to compare and contrast stats across DAO and DA2. 

For example, here's a possible interpretation of the data.

Perhaps a large number of the people of that didn't finish DAO decided they didn't like DAO and didn't even bother to buy DA2 because they saw it was a sequel to a game they didn't like.  And so a lot of the potential players that wouldn't have finished DA2 never bought DA2 and thus can't have factored into the stats of those that didn't finish it.  And that effect could help explain why DA2 had a higher completion percentage.  

Or it could be something else entirely.  I think numbers like this are good for sanity checks.  You know, you have this assumption.  You make a prediction on what the numbers will be like.  And then if you're right, great.  If you're not, hmm.  Why might that be?  But these sorts of numbers (and by 'these sorts of numbers" i mean the numbers in the first post, taken by themselves) aren't something you can really look at and draw meaningful conclusions from.

Now if Bioware could tell what were returning players versus new players and then look at the DA2 stats for returning players relative to their DAO stats, that would be pretty cool.  If they're just comparing all customers of DAO to all customers of DA2, things get really murky since you don't know the reasons for the membership variance.

Modifié par Giltspur, 16 août 2012 - 02:30 .