304 réponses à ce sujet

[Jerrybnsn]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

........ the first games out on new consoles very rarely take anywhere near full advantage of the new technology. I'd like to see, personally, DA3 come out next summer or Fall (or even winter, honestly) on the old consoles, then have DA4 (if its made) really spend their entire development cycle with the new console power in mind. Making a game now, then essentially doing a port to the new console platform in time for early 2014 wouldn't be as good as developing the game with full working knowledge of the next gen console's hardward and abilities.

In short... DA3 for 360, DA4 for 720.

Not to mention, changing to the new format would essentially lock out any importation for Origins to DA2 into the new game for the console players, which make up the vast majority of the customers.  Considering importation is the big hook that has drawn in the bioware fans, it would make the other two games useless to the series.  DA3 already has to overcome a lot of selling points without adding that one to the list.

I dunno, I'm trying to figure out why a third game in a series is taking this long because we are nearly through the half-way developement time of DA Origins and haven't heard any official announcement yet.  If Bioware waits until 2014 to release the game then they'll be behind the other rpgs that will take advantage of the new consoles.  So, I guess that's why I'm still thinking that DA3 will have to be released at least by the fall of 2013.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 16 août 2012 - 02:46 .

[Fast Jimmy]

I don't think DA3 is behind schedule. I think a lot energy was focused on the Expansion Pack until this winter, at which time they began true pre-production of DA3. I think a lot of the resources from the EP are going to be cannablized for DA3 but, at the same time, actual pre-production on it has formally only started in the last nine months.

So, while this would have been the peak of work and promotion for the dev cycle of DA2, this isn't even a blip on the radar of DA:O's five year cycle. Just because its been ~18 months since DA2 has come out doesn't necessarily mean DA3 has been in production that long.

That being said, I think they are much further along with DA3 than they are indicating (especially considering they haven't even announced it officially yet), but they were cautious after the DA2 response, they wanted to remain quiet after they found out the Exalted March EP was cancelled and after the ME3 reception and Bioware being drug through the mud, they are going to put bankers in the Cayman's to shame with their tight lipped-ness.

So they may come out tomorrow and say they have a demo, for all we know. I think they are going to play a VERY large portion of this game dev cycle close to the vest, to make sure expectations aren't raised to a point where no one could live up to them.

[Jerrybnsn]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I don't think DA3 is behind schedule. I think a lot energy was focused on the Expansion Pack until this winter, at which time they began true pre-production of DA3. I think a lot of the resources from the EP are going to be cannablized for DA3 but, at the same time, actual pre-production on it has formally only started in the last nine months.

As far as "schedule" goes, I didn't mean to say that they are behind schedule, just that for a third game in a series that has had 1/1/2 years since the last released game is a little long without an official announcement.  It's along the line of the developement time you would expect for an original IP that needs time to develope story, lore, mechanics, graphics, and artwork.

edit:  I mean,  are they revamping lore, mechanics, graphics and artwork all over again?

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 16 août 2012 - 03:15 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

So they may come out tomorrow and say they have a demo, for all we know. I think they are going to play a VERY large portion of this game dev cycle close to the vest, to make sure expectations aren't raised to a point where no one could live up to them.

I think the Original game released in 2009 has already set the expectations to what they are today.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

A lot of people trying to change the subject attack the facts from oblique angles, yet nothing metioned so far changes the facts presented in the article.

Well over half of the people who played DAO found the formula so entertaining that they decided to do something else rather than finish the game.  About half of the people who played DA2 found something else to do before finishing it.  DA2 is the formula that should be cleaned up, tightened up, tweaked (it needs all three!) and used going forward, not DAO.

[Pasquale1234]

92% of the 100K people who have started eating balut finish it.  (92,000 people)

<50% of the 100M people who have started eating a 3 pound filet finish it. (less than 50M people)

Therefore, balut is obviously the superior choice, and should be served instead of filet.

ETA:  Just to be clear, it is not my intention to draw any parallels between balut, filet, and specific games.  The point was to demonstrate the fallacy of the OP's conclusion by applying the same logic to a different data set.

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 16 août 2012 - 04:58 .

[Jerrybnsn]

I am one of those who have finished a greater % of DA2 games than Origin. Yet, I played a heck of a lot more Origin games than DA2. Therefore, the game you would rather play the most is the better game, no?

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

ETA:  Just to be clear, it is not my intention to draw any parallels between balut, filet, and specific games.  The point was to demonstrate the fallacy of the OP's conclusion by applying the same logic to a different data set.

Food takes minutes to eat.  Games take days to play.  You proved nothing.

[Pasquale1234]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
Food takes minutes to eat.  Games take days to play.  You proved nothing.

Irrelevant.  Same logic, different data set.

Fallacious logic is fallacious.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Irrelevant.  Same logic, different data set.

Fallacious logic is fallacious.

We're talking about human beings expressing their likes and dislikes.  Logic doesn't come into play. :lol:

[Pasquale1234]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...We're talking about human beings expressing their likes and dislikes.  Logic doesn't come into play. :lol:

... until someone tries to use data to "prove" the validity of their opinion.

Which is the entire premise of this thread.

ETA:  And, BTW the title of this thread is patently false.

36% of 4M > 41% of 2M.

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 16 août 2012 - 05:44 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Well over half of the people who played DAO found the formula so entertaining that they decided to do something else rather than finish the game.  About half of the people who played DA2 found something else to do before finishing it.  DA2 is the formula that should be cleaned up, tightened up, tweaked (it needs all three!) and used going forward, not DAO.

You're bad at logic.

You establish two premises.  They are true.  You correctly point out the completion rates for DAO and DA2.

And then you baselessly jump to a conclusion about which formula is better.  Why is completion rate relevant?  You need to answer that question, and answer it convincingly, before you can get any farther, and you haven't done that.

[cJohnOne]

To restate it a little differently. More people gave up on DAO then DA2. I really like numbers like 64% didn't finish DAO and 59% didn't finish DA2. The numbers are hard to believe but there they are. I assume that's per person and not per characters.

Maybe it means people don't like to ask for help in a Video game. I assume most people need it to get over the bridge in sacred ashes, ha ha.

What do you think it means?

[Fast Jimmy]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Irrelevant.  Same logic, different data set.

Fallacious logic is fallacious.

We're talking about human beings expressing their likes and dislikes.  Logic doesn't come into play. :lol:

In no way does completing a game express my like or dislike of something.

Completing Mass Effect 3 MADE me dislike it. If I had not completed it, I would have said it was a fairly solid action game. 

DA2 would have had the same resonse (a decent action game) if I had stopped right after Act 2. Act 3 is where most of my distaste for it as an action game came from (although it has features which make it an atrocious RPG). So finishing these games affirmed my DISLIKE of them.

So I hope you can see why people are saying the logic for this argument is completely off-base. 

Not to mention the mountains of text I've already devoted to poking holes in the fact that the way the information was present and revealed at GDC, not to mention the motives of the man presenting them, Fernando Melo, hardly lend any sort of credibility to the argument.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 16 août 2012 - 06:37 .

[Fast Jimmy]

cJohnOne wrote...

To restate it a little differently. More people gave up on DAO then DA2. I really like numbers like 64% didn't finish DAO and 59% didn't finish DA2. The numbers are hard to believe but there they are. I assume that's per person and not per characters.

Maybe it means people don't like to ask for help in a Video game. I assume most people need it to get over the bridge in sacred ashes, ha ha.

What do you think it means?

Since Melo in his presentation gave no indication whatsoever to the method of how these numbers were counted or in what context they were generated, I think it means nothing. Because without that, its just a buzz word number. 

I can make up statistics too. There are eight planets in our solar system. One sun, eight planets. One of them is a garden planet. That means we have a success rate of 12 1/2% of garden planets.

There are roughly 10^24 (10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) suns in the universe (roughly). That means, with a 12 1/2% success rate for each star, there are 1,250,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the universe with life just like Earth on them.

Now... tell me if that statistic makes any sense. Because if it does, you need to take remedial science and math classes.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 16 août 2012 - 06:27 .

[Realmzmaster]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

So they may come out tomorrow and say they have a demo, for all we know. I think they are going to play a VERY large portion of this game dev cycle close to the vest, to make sure expectations aren't raised to a point where no one could live up to them.

I think the Original game released in 2009 has already set the expectations to what they are today.

The original game in released in 2009 did not set the expectations those games (for me) were released in 1998 and 2000 respectively. The one in 2009 did not fulfill those expectations.

[Realmzmaster]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

I am one of those who have finished a greater % of DA2 games than Origin. Yet, I played a heck of a lot more Origin games than DA2. Therefore, the game you would rather play the most is the better game, no?

I finished and complete all my DAO playthroughs (8) and DA2 playthroughs (12). So in my estimation that would make DA2 the better game by your logic.

[Pasquale1234]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

I am one of those who have finished a greater % of DA2 games than Origin. Yet, I played a heck of a lot more Origin games than DA2. Therefore, the game you would rather play the most is the better game, no?

I finished and complete all my DAO playthroughs (8) and DA2 playthroughs (12). So in my estimation that would make DA2 the better game by your logic.

Uh... not really.

Unless those playthrough numbers told us which game you would rather play, which they don't.

... all according to Jerrybnsn's assertions.

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 16 août 2012 - 06:38 .

[jillabender]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
We're talking about human beings expressing their likes and dislikes.  Logic doesn't come into play. :lol:

Haha… fair enough – there's nothing really wrong with making an illogical argument to support your personal likes and dislikes when it's in good fun.

Even when your argument isn't meant to be taken all that seriously, though, you still open yourself up to having it challenged on logical grounds. In this case, you haven't really responded to the criticism that there's often no connection between whether someone finished a game and how much that person enjoyed the game, and how likely that person is to play similar games in the future.

Modifié par jillabender, 16 août 2012 - 06:47 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

jillabender wrote...

there's nothing really wrong with making an illogical argument

There's always something wrong with making an illogical argument.  Poor reasoning diminishes us all.

[cJohnOne]

I think your over doing the argument. It's like saying a book is good but I never finished it.

[jillabender]

Sylvius the Mad…

There's always something wrong with making an illogical argument. Poor reasoning diminishes us all.

As a general principle, I completely agree with you. However, if someone is fully aware that they're making an illogical argument, and they're doing it for the sake of having a fun and silly debate, I don't really have a problem with it. But then, that's just me.

cJohnOne wrote…

I think your over doing the argument. It's like saying a book is good but I never finished it.

Is there anything wrong, though, with saying "it's a good book, but I never finished it?" I can think of many reasons why I might not finish a game or a book, many of them having little or nothing to do with whether I consider it good.

Modifié par jillabender, 16 août 2012 - 07:02 .

[Emzamination]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Irrelevant.  Same logic, different data set.

Fallacious logic is fallacious.

We're talking about human beings expressing their likes and dislikes.  Logic doesn't come into play. :lol:

In no way does completing a game express my like or dislike of something.

Completing Mass Effect 3 MADE me dislike it. If I had not completed it, I would have said it was a fairly solid action game. 

DA2 would have had the same resonse (a decent action game) if I had stopped right after Act 2. Act 3 is where most of my distaste for it as an action game came from (although it has features which make it an atrocious RPG). So finishing these games affirmed my DISLIKE of them.

So I hope you can see why people are saying the logic for this argument is completely off-base. 

Not to mention the mountains of text I've already devoted to poking holes in the fact that the way the information was present and revealed at GDC, not to mention the motives of the man presenting them, Fernando Melo, hardly lend any sort of credibility to the argument.

Sorry jimmy, I'm going to have to call this illogical, you can not like 95% of the game, Dislike 5% and File that game under dislike, logic and democracy dictates that the majority percentage rules out the lesser.That game is now an Invalid example and whether you want to or not, you must like that game, this is what logic dictates.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Emzamination wrote...

Sorry jimmy, I'm going to have to call this illogical, you can not like 95% of the game, Dislike 5% and File that game under dislike, logic and democracy dictates that the majority percentage rules out the lesser.

That's nonsense.  Why Jimmy might weight the narrative more heavily than the gameplay.  Before he readhed the end, he didn't have the whole narrative to evaluate, so his expectation was based solely on gameplay (which, once the game was complete, became less important in the analysis).

And democracy?  Seriously?  You just appealed to democracy?

[Mike 9987]

My own experience says otherwise. I stopped playing in act 3 for an entire month before i finally decided to finish it.