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[Fisto The Sexbot]

[quote]Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

[quote]The Hierophant wrote...
For real, i thought it was to emulate the trailer isabela?
[/quote]

Trailer Isabela , while an admitted "mistake"(a mistake they've made several times including the first cover of the Silent Grove series) has black hair and dark brown/black eyes. She wasn't trying to make trailer Isabela.
Nope creator thought Isabela was "too dark". So Milky white, Blonde, blue-eyed Isabela pops right out of her racist ass. You should go and read the comments on that mod they are all incredibly disheartening. Against my better judgement I went read them when it first came out, made me cry for days. [/quote]


 [/quote]

That's not racist, that's just the best combination of woman.

In theory, at least. Isabela is pretty fugly, if you ask me.

[Fisto The Sexbot]

syllogi wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

dreads are pretty much all nasty and filthy anyway. Not so with cornrows, though.

Simply claiming to be Black on the Internet doesn't give you the right to be ignorant and prejudiced. You obviously know nothing about dreads, so just don't talk about them.

And yes, I have worn my hair in locks in the past, along with my mother. I have never encountered as much straight up ignorance and racism as I did when it came to my hair...

What is it with black people and racism? 

[Cerah]

PurebredCorn wrote...



As far as shorter styles go, I think this style is very attractive...


and this...



and this is really beautiful for a mid length style...



I also love, love, love this style, but I'm not sure if we could ever have hair this long in the game...

I really like all of these.  They're all very lovely.

Anyways, to the earlier discussion of dreadlocks: You can get dreadlocks with any hair type. In truth, dreadlocks can be found all across the world - old Irish warriors, certain religious groups in India, and so forth. While dreadlocks can be "dirty" (and this is were those awful dreadlocks come into play, matted and gross), so can any hairstyle. Managed dreadlocks, however, are pretty clean and well-manicured, plus they look great.

As far as there being "no black people" in Thedas, as far as I'm concerned, real-world ethnicities do not exist in Thedas, period. You merely have certain groups that take inspiration from this and that.
As far as Thedas being based upon Europe, from what we have seen of it, this for the most part holds true (though people make a lot of comparisons between Dalish and Native American cultures), but we've only seen a little bit of Thedas. For all we know, people in Rivani could be wearing Saris and practicing things that resemble Indian traditions, or people from Nervarra could wear kimono-esq garb when they're relaxing in a zen garden, or have fesivals comparible to New Years in China. -shrugs- We simply don't know that much yet.

[Xewaka]

Cerah wrote...
As far as Thedas being based upon {medieval} Europe...

The funniest part is that using this as the reason to have only white people is patently wrong. You need only look at the Moor occupation of the Iberian peninsula.

EDIT: And to stay in topic, I'd like to have the option of more variety in hair textures. Even if it didn't fit my characters, the fact that the option exists already increases the worth of the product. An option not taken is always better, and more valuable, than no option.

Modifié par Xewaka, 18 août 2012 - 09:37 .

[coldSnap]

On the race thing. Weren't two of the default Hawke's asian and black (at least thats what they would be in our world). Bioware was i little in your face about with the "asian" defaul hawke, i.e. skin with yellow undertones, and slanted eyes with pitch black irises.

And then if you choose the darker skinned hawke (the very end of the skintone spectrum), while his eyes are blue, when you look at his family is obvious Bioware were thinking african, like Bethany has a wider bridge for a nose and thick lips. And Carver has "dreads" (though Bioware could have done a waaay better job with them).

So Bioware is at least aware of the idea of asian, black DAuniverse equivalents.

[syllogi]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

What is it with black people and racism? 

What is it with white people and physically attacking a brown person for wearing their hair in a certain style???  

Cerah wrote...

I really like all of these. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie] They're all very lovely.

Anyways, to the earlier discussion of dreadlocks: You can get dreadlocks with any hair type. In truth, dreadlocks can be found all across the world - old Irish warriors, certain religious groups in India, and so forth. While dreadlocks can be "dirty" (and this is were those awful dreadlocks come into play, matted and gross), so can any hairstyle. Managed dreadlocks, however, are pretty clean and well-manicured, plus they look great.

As far as there being "no black people" in Thedas, as far as I'm concerned, real-world ethnicities do not exist in Thedas, period. You merely have certain groups that take inspiration from this and that.
As far as Thedas being based upon Europe, from what we have seen of it, this for the most part holds true (though people make a lot of comparisons between Dalish and Native American cultures), but we've only seen a little bit of Thedas. For all we know, people in Rivani could be wearing Saris and practicing things that resemble Indian traditions, or people from Nervarra could wear kimono-esq garb when they're relaxing in a zen garden, or have fesivals comparible to New Years in China. -shrugs- We simply don't know that much yet.

Word to all of this.

[jillabender]

Sylvius the Mad wrote…

If racism is bad, it's bad for some reason.  Badness isn't the sort of characteristic that can arise on its own.  If it were, then we could have two things that were identical in every way but one, and that one was that one thing was bad and the other was not.

So, we've established that, if racism is bad, it's bad for some reason.  What is that reason?  I posit that the reason racism is bad is because it is a manifestation of prejudice.

Therefore, an accusation of prejudice is relevantly similar to an accusation of racism, which is how this whole conversation got started.  An accusation of prejudice was levelled, I equated that to an accusation of racism, and then a bunch of people bit my head off.  But as I've just shown, my conflation of those two things made perfect sense.

If I make any claim here on this forum, chances are I've thought it through quite a bit.

I don't think Syllogi, whom you were responding to, was accusing EntropicAngel of racial prejudice, though. It's possible to be prejudiced about things other than race. It was an understandable mistake for you to make, though, since Syllogi also referred to other people who have been racist to her/him.

Syllogi wrote…

What is it with white people and physically attacking a brown person for wearing their hair in a certain style???  

You seem to be speaking from personal experience – I just want to say that I'm really sorry you had to deal with that, and I don't blame you at all for being angry about the very insulting comments about dreadlocks.

Modifié par jillabender, 18 août 2012 - 01:49 .

[syllogi]

jillabender wrote...

You seem to be speaking from personal experience – I just want to say that I'm really sorry you had to deal with that, and I don't blame you at all for being angry about the very insulting comments about dreadlocks.

Yeah, I don't want to get this thread locked, because it really, really sucks that certain people on the BSN seem to only exist to get threads on race, gender, and sexuality derailed and ruined, but this is definitely a sensitive subject for me, and even though I look back now at pictures of my dreadlocks and think they were awesome looking, I can't help but remember being spit on, having my hair pulled, and in one really horrible instance, having a boy in school hold me down and threaten me with scissors he was holding.  I finally cut my hair because I couldn't take being a target anymore.  It had gotten to the point where I didn't want to leave the house anymore, because I had become so anxious.

But what is with those ethnic people whining about racism all the time, amirite???  

And yes, there is a difference between a person of color making an offhand, prejudiced comment about dreads because they have never worn their hair that way, and don't know anyone who has, and what I describe above.  

It really, really sucks that I have to spell this out for people.  It's far easier to be empathetic, or at least keep your mouth shut, than some people think.

[Darth Death]

AndrahilAdrian wrote...

I have noticed that, while just about every bioware game has let you play as a black character, none of them have offered natural black hairstyles in the character creator. 

In legend, some say hair relaxers & the motives behind them, are to blame. In Hollywood there's but one attractive image. If you're not among them, then you're not attractive, or so they say. The only way to be personable is to change your God given features, satisfying others around you, generally people you don't even know. It matters somehow, so you corporate. Your natural born curly hair is sacrificed to the power of straightness. The emulation process is damaging physically as well mentally, but "what results! Now I'm beautiful." A heavy price was payed that day, unaware to you & of course, everyone else. That's what some old legend states...      

[Wulfram]

I suspect such hair would look like really terrible helmet hair in the Dragon Age engine.

Though that would be a stronger argument if the game wasn't full of terrible looking helmet hair.

[The Hierophant]

Wulfram wrote...

I suspect such hair would look like really terrible helmet hair in the Dragon Age engine.

Though that would be a stronger argument if the game wasn't full of terrible looking helmet hair.

Hopefully the devs would add some extra detail into the hair designs for DA3.

[ScotGaymer]

@Emzamination.

You are very hostile.

I apologise for the offence I caused. It definately was NOT my intent; which is why I attempted to clear it up.

It is not ignorant or racist or prejudice to acknowledge the affect geography, climate, distance, and technology have on physical and cultural differences between varying "peoples" of the world. And it works the same in Thedas.

It seems to me like you have simply made up your mind for whatever reason that I am a prejudiced git, and don't want to discuss what I am saying. Which is fine I guess; your loss tho.

I am happy to discuss it all if you can discuss it like a civil adult human person. Clearly you can not, because you are simply defaulting to screaming that im spewing ignorance and bile.

Which I am not.

It was a minor point I made about races needing to "make sense" within the context of the universe; and the diversication of these races also need to make sense within the context of the universe.
Again not racist, ignorant, or anything else except basic fact.
A minor point that basically you can not currently without mods play as a "black" or "asian" character in Dragon Age because those "ethnicities" don't currently exist within the boundaries of Thedas - as far as we know at least. All you can do is play as Rivaini and pretend he/she is "black"; so to actually play as an inspired-by-black-ethnicities character then a ethnically black race would need to be added to the game, and for that they would need a strong lore reason to explain it.

And it can apply to any type of "race" they might want to put in the game.

If they want to put in a race of red skinned gnomes, then they can, but as I repeatedly said I would want a strong lore reason for their inclusion.
Perhaps they were once Dwarves that delved too close to a volcano and nearly all died; and the survivors mutated in the new "ruined" environment to become red skinned gnomes.

And so on.

And all I can say is I apologise for causing offence, and I am sorry that you can not accept that it was simply a misunderstanding due to my attempt at brevity in my original post (I usually post wall-o-text posts), and perhaps due to my assumption about the OPs original post also.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 18 août 2012 - 05:42 .

[Sejborg]

So you don't want certain hair cuts in the game, because you don't think the skin color slider can go dark enough in the current cc's?

[ScotGaymer]

@Sejborg

No that isn't what I said.

Black textured hair styles clearly go with black people. Generally speaking white folk don't have that particular sort of texture to their hair.

So requesting those types of hair for characters in a universe where you can not actually play as a "black" character (without mods), means that the request goes hand in hand with an implied request for a "black race" or allow for that particular variation in the CC.

Hence my elaboration that, doing such a thing would require a good lore reason for that ethnicity popping up in an environment that would not ordinarily give rise to them.

I am absolutely FOR more option for hair and otherwise.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 18 août 2012 - 07:23 .

[Sejborg]

FitScotGaymer

I play on ps3 and I can make just as brown characters as alot of the people on the pictures that have been posted in this thread. How come these real people can have afros then?

And how can it be that my brother who is pale as snow once had dreadlocks? I don't think your argument adds up.

You might not be able to play as a black person, as in completely BLACK, but you can play as a brown person.

[Androme]

The reason you couldn't be of another human ethnicity in DAO and DA2 is because you're ethnic Ferelden both times (White)

Modifié par Androme, 18 août 2012 - 07:45 .

[Icesong]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

A minor point that basically you can not currently without mods play as a "black" or "asian" character in Dragon Age

Icesong wrote...

Blacker than many black people but not black. And clearly this is Marilyn Monroe.

Modifié par Icesong, 18 août 2012 - 08:04 .

[TEWR]

I came into this thread expecting a petition for actual afros to be a hair option. Turns out my hopes and expectations were wrong.

SON, I AM DISAPPOINT.

[Sejborg]

Icesong wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

A minor point that basically you can not currently without mods play as a "black" or "asian" character in Dragon Age

Icesong wrote...

Blacker than many black people but not black. And clearly this is Marilyn Monroe.

Checkmate.

And I am sure there is even more of such pictures out there to find.

Modifié par Sejborg, 18 août 2012 - 09:45 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

jillabender wrote...

I don't think Syllogi, whom you were responding to, was accusing EntropicAngel of racial prejudice, though.

It doesn't matter.  The two are morally equivalent.  As such, there's no reason to hold one accusation as worse than the other.

syllogi wrote...

I can't help but remember being spit on, having my hair pulled, and in one really horrible instance, having a boy in school hold me down and threaten me with scissors he was holding.

All of those are Assault.  You should have had them arrested.

[brushyourteeth]

Why is there even anyone in this thread who's against new textures of hair?

Aren't more options always better, even if you choose not to use them? Isn't anyone else tired of seeing eight NPC's in the room and five of them have the same two hairstyles?

All prejudice aside (which is a whole other kind of monster) - why let your issue with race change the way anyone else designs their next protagonist? Please tell me we're none of us so immature as to be all "if I can't enjoy it, no one can have it."

[Terraforming2154]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Why is there even anyone in this thread who's against new textures of hair?

Aren't more options always better, even if you choose not to use them? Isn't anyone else tired of seeing eight NPC's in the room and five of them have the same two hairstyles?

All prejudice aside (which is a whole other kind of monster) - why let your issue with race change the way anyone else designs their next protagonist? Please tell me we're none of us so immature as to be all "if I can't enjoy it, no one can have it."

I really came in here expecting everyone to be agreeing with the OP, because more CC options are always a good thing.
I definitely wasn't expecting to see the lore argument rear its head with regard to more hairstyles..

[brushyourteeth]

Terraforming2154 wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Why is there even anyone in this thread who's against new textures of hair?

Aren't more options always better, even if you choose not to use them? Isn't anyone else tired of seeing eight NPC's in the room and five of them have the same two hairstyles?

All prejudice aside (which is a whole other kind of monster) - why let your issue with race change the way anyone else designs their next protagonist? Please tell me we're none of us so immature as to be all "if I can't enjoy it, no one can have it."

I really came in here expecting everyone to be agreeing with the OP, because more CC options are always a good thing.
I definitely wasn't expecting to see the lore argument rear its head with regard to more hairstyles..

I know.