171 réponses à ce sujet

[Wrathion]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Terraforming2154 wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Why is there even anyone in this thread who's against new textures of hair?

Aren't more options always better, even if you choose not to use them? Isn't anyone else tired of seeing eight NPC's in the room and five of them have the same two hairstyles?

All prejudice aside (which is a whole other kind of monster) - why let your issue with race change the way anyone else designs their next protagonist? Please tell me we're none of us so immature as to be all "if I can't enjoy it, no one can have it."

I really came in here expecting everyone to be agreeing with the OP, because more CC options are always a good thing.
I definitely wasn't expecting to see the lore argument rear its head with regard to more hairstyles..

I know. 

You guys have too much faith in this place. You actually came hear 5 pages later and did not expect to see an argument about the legitimacy of kinky hairstyles in "totally European Thedas" on a website where most of the fandom denies the existance of non-white people in the game entirely. 

Poor people.


Ah well, curly hairstyles for everyone.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I ask this question because I don't know the answer:

Is there a character in either Dragon Age game with obviously non-caucasian features?

[carine]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I ask this question because I don't know the answer:

Is there a character in either Dragon Age game with obviously non-caucasian features?

Hm.

The only dark-skinned characters that I can think of off the top of my head are Isabela and Duncan, who are from Rivain. But their facial features still look pretty Caucasian/not really ethnic in my opinion, anyway.

EDIT: to clarify, I'm not saying that Duncan/Isabela are white. I realize that they're not. 

Modifié par carine, 19 août 2012 - 06:13 .

[Wrathion]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I ask this question because I don't know the answer:

Is there a character in either Dragon Age game with obviously non-caucasian features?

 
Are you joking? You went through both games and thought everyone was white? Torn between lauging and crying.

[Icesong]

Are we about to start discussing facial structure in this thread now?

[carine]

Icesong wrote...

Are we about to start discussing facial structure in this thread now?

Yeah probably not a smart move. lol

Anyway, I agree with the OP. The CC should have more variety.

[ScotGaymer]

Sejborg wrote...

Icesong wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

A minor point that basically you can not currently without mods play as a "black" or "asian" character in Dragon Age

Icesong wrote...

Blacker than many black people but not black. And clearly this is Marilyn Monroe.

Checkmate.

And I am sure there is even more of such pictures out there to find.

Not really.

Firstly there is no way of knowing if that screenie comes from a modded game or not; and both those characters still look like varying degrees of caucasian - at best they look like they have one black or asian parent.

Secondly, even making a very dark skinned person doesn't mean that there is indeed a "black" inspired ethnicity in game. There is not.

As I said previously, you might be able to make a very dark skinned character and roleplay them in your head so that he or she is black. And thats fine, it's kinda the point of the game. But that doesn't mean that there is a black inspired race in the game, or that there are "black" NPCs.
There isn't. And none are.

I would like to see a more varied chargen, myself, with associated lore support.

EDIT:
I originally thought the Qunari were supposed to be Dragon Age's "black" race but they retconned them in DA2 to suddenly be grey skinned and "exotic".

So now I am not sure.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 19 août 2012 - 01:22 .

[Icesong]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Icesong wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

A minor point that basically you can not currently without mods play as a "black" or "asian" character in Dragon Age

Icesong wrote...

Blacker than many black people but not black. And clearly this is Marilyn Monroe.

Checkmate.

And I am sure there is even more of such pictures out there to find.

Not really.

Firstly there is no way of knowing if that screenie comes from a modded game or not

No way of knowing? You really think so? I can think of several, not the least of which is for you to just go in-game and see. The black one is preset #4 and the asian one is preset #5.

Secondly, even making a very dark skinned person doesn't mean that there is indeed a "black" inspired ethnicity in game. There is not.

That might matter if the requisite for black people to physically manifest in Thedas was the existence of a real-world inspired black culture.

[ScotGaymer]

Icesong wrote...



No way of knowing? You really think so? I can think of several, not the least of which is for you to just go in-game and see. The black one is preset #4 and the asian one is preset #5.


That might matter if the requisite for black people to physically manifest in Thedas was the existence of a real-world inspired black culture.

You are both correct and incorrect.

Love it when that happens lol.

The first point, I conceed you are probably right on. But neither the first point nor the second point invalidates my point that being able to Roleplay in a Roleplaying game as a "black" or "asian" character does not mean that there is a "black" or "asian" inspired race in the game currently; or that there are black or asian NPCs.

There aren't. The darkest you can go is the Rivaini who are a latin greco-turkic type of people. Not black.

As it stands currently as much as you might be able to dark skin your PC and roleplay that way, there are no ethnically black or asian peoples in this franchise - at least as far as we know.

The requisite for "black" or "asian" inspired cultures and people to appear would be the correct climate, geopgraphy, and environment for a similar people within the world of Thedas to appear. Currently as far as we know, the Continent of Thedas (not the planet) does not have that environment. And there is not the technology or magic existant for them to emigrate to the Continent of Thedas in any large scale.
The only place they could possibly put a "black" race is in the very very northern edge of Thedas, the tropical part, that is now ruled and inhabited by the Qunari.

And without modding the CharGen doesn't really have the features like the afro textured hair to play as a black character or an asian character. And given as you say you can pick a "black" and a "asian" preset - they really ought to have those things.
And of course they ought to have the lore support for it too.

I am pretty much in favour of more options for everyone, as long as it has the lore reasons given to support it, so that it contextually makes sense.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 19 août 2012 - 01:36 .

[Das Tentakel]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Terraforming2154 wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Why is there even anyone in this thread who's against new textures of hair?

Aren't more options always better, even if you choose not to use them? Isn't anyone else tired of seeing eight NPC's in the room and five of them have the same two hairstyles?

All prejudice aside (which is a whole other kind of monster) - why let your issue with race change the way anyone else designs their next protagonist? Please tell me we're none of us so immature as to be all "if I can't enjoy it, no one can have it."

I really came in here expecting everyone to be agreeing with the OP, because more CC options are always a good thing.
I definitely wasn't expecting to see the lore argument rear its head with regard to more hairstyles..

I know. 

Because it's not about hair or lore, but about inclusiveness (even if that was not the intention of the OP).
And that's inclusiveness in regards to a very specific group in a very specific country that historically got a rotten deal.

Inclusiveness is good and so is variety, so here's my vote for Afros. And really long braids. And Norman-style haircuts.
As for world consistency, it's not as if Thedas is a meticulously designed, carefully crafted fantasy world. It's a quick & dirty meat & potatoes fantasy setting with only a very tenuous relationship to Europe-that-was.
(And frankly, it does not have to be more than that given BioWare's stress on characters & combat, rather than world or even story)

If the worldbuilding had been more careful and thorough, we would already have had plenty of clearly non-European human (and non-human) peoples and cultures; we also would have had an explanation why humans, apparently recent arrivals from subtropical Par Vollen, succeeded in producing Northern European-looking people like Alistair and Anders in such a short timespan.

Anyway, as we're talking about hair in a fantasy setting, I rather like these examples based on real-world examples:

[Sejborg]

No black people in Thedas? I dunno. The entire Hawke family can be black if one desires.

http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

imageshack.us/photo/my-images/847/bethanycarver9.jpg/ 

Or at least, these guys look black to me.

Modifié par Sejborg, 19 août 2012 - 02:13 .

[Icesong]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Icesong wrote...



No way of knowing? You really think so? I can think of several, not the least of which is for you to just go in-game and see. The black one is preset #4 and the asian one is preset #5.


That might matter if the requisite for black people to physically manifest in Thedas was the existence of a real-world inspired black culture.

You are both correct and incorrect.

Love it when that happens lol.

The first point, I conceed you are probably right on. But neither the first point nor the second point invalidates my point that being able to Roleplay in a Roleplaying game as a "black" or "asian" character does not mean that there is a "black" or "asian" inspired race in the game currently; or that there are black or asian NPCs.

There aren't. The darkest you can go is the Rivaini who are a latin greco-turkic type of people. Not black.

You might can dig deep and find a Turk that looks as black as preset #4(though you might also be surprised by how white most of them are) but you'll really have to scrape to find a Greek that matches up. Unless they're black Greeks. Spanish people, too, aren't as dark as commonly thought. But this is irrelevant. 

As it stands currently as much as you might be able to dark skin your PC and roleplay that way, there are no ethnically black or asian peoples in this franchise - at least as far as we know.

Right. I think. I actually don't know what "ethnically" is supposed to mean. If culturally, I don't need some group of black people with African-sounding names doing African-kinda things to be a Ferelden that has black skin. And no, I'm not roleplaying as a stranger in a strange land.

The requisite for "black" or "asian" inspired cultures and people to appear would be the correct climate, geopgraphy, and environment for a similar people within the world of Thedas to appear. Currently as far as we know, the Continent of Thedas (not the planet) does not have that environment. And there is not the technology or magic existant for them to emigrate to the Continent of Thedas in any large scale.The only place they could possibly put a "black" race is in the very very northern edge of Thedas, the tropical part, that is now ruled and inhabited by the Qunari.

Our real world understanding holding true you may be right. But you're not accounting for a forgotten migration. A scenario which in lore is actually proposed: that only elves are native to Thedas with humans coming from somewhere else.

Also, in general, assuming too much with fictional settings and fantasy in particular isn't likely to guide you well.

Modifié par Icesong, 20 août 2012 - 01:07 .

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I ask this question because I don't know the answer:

Is there a character in either Dragon Age game with obviously non-caucasian features?

 
Are you joking? You went through both games and thought everyone was white? Torn between lauging and crying.

You really don't know what caucasian means, do you? 

[Fisto The Sexbot]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Icesong wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

A minor point that basically you can not currently without mods play as a "black" or "asian" character in Dragon Age

Icesong wrote...

Blacker than many black people but not black. And clearly this is Marilyn Monroe.

Checkmate.

And I am sure there is even more of such pictures out there to find.

Not really.

Firstly there is no way of knowing if that screenie comes from a modded game or not; and both those characters still look like varying degrees of caucasian - at best they look like they have one black or asian parent.

Secondly, even making a very dark skinned person doesn't mean that there is indeed a "black" inspired ethnicity in game. There is not.

As I said previously, you might be able to make a very dark skinned character and roleplay them in your head so that he or she is black. And thats fine, it's kinda the point of the game. But that doesn't mean that there is a black inspired race in the game, or that there are "black" NPCs.
There isn't. And none are.

I would like to see a more varied chargen, myself, with associated lore support.

EDIT:
I originally thought the Qunari were supposed to be Dragon Age's "black" race but they retconned them in DA2 to suddenly be grey skinned and "exotic".

So now I am not sure.

lmao. that yellow-skinned human definitely doesn't look asian. But I guess it's okay, I know 'caucasian' people that *I* would mistake for black, even though I know for sure they're not. 

I'll pin it on the fact that many people here are racially and culturally oblivious people that think every white person looks like Marilyn Monroe come from diverse backgrounds and don't care about race labels.

Modifié par Fisto The Sexbot, 19 août 2012 - 03:01 .

[Das Tentakel]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I ask this question because I don't know the answer:

Is there a character in either Dragon Age game with obviously non-caucasian features?

 
Are you joking? You went through both games and thought everyone was white? Torn between lauging and crying.

You really don't know what caucasian means, do you? 

Sorry to interrupt but...Caucasian as from the Caucasus perhaps? Like these Nogai women from Dagestan in the eastern Caucasus region?



I actually know what you mean, but I post this to point out that without an agreed-upon very precise terminology, everybody's basically charging windmills.
Very Don Quixote, but ultimately pointless.

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 19 août 2012 - 08:58 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I ask this question because I don't know the answer:

Is there a character in either Dragon Age game with obviously non-caucasian features?

Are you joking? You went through both games and thought everyone was white? Torn between lauging and crying.

Once again, you're incorrectly assuming an excluded middle.  And worse, even if there were an excluded midle, that still wouldn't support your conclusion, as there can exist non-white people with caucasian features.

I didn't note everyone's facial features.  Can you point to a character with non-caucasian features?  As I said, I ask because I don't know.  That is not equivalent to claiming I believe the opposite.

Once again, your logic has been very poor on this issue.

[jillabender]

Das Tentakel wrote…

As for world consistency, it's not as if Thedas is a meticulously designed, carefully crafted fantasy world. It's a quick & dirty meat & potatoes fantasy setting with only a very tenuous relationship to Europe-that-was.

(And frankly, it does not have to be more than that given BioWare's stress on characters & combat, rather than world or even story)

If the worldbuilding had been more careful and thorough, we would already have had plenty of clearly non-European human (and non-human) peoples and cultures; we also would have had an explanation why humans, apparently recent arrivals from subtropical Par Vollen, succeeded in producing Northern European-looking people like Alistair and Anders in such a short timespan.

Well said – I agree completely.

[Fortlowe]

jillabender wrote...

Das Tentakel wrote…

As for world consistency, it's not as if Thedas is a meticulously designed, carefully crafted fantasy world. It's a quick & dirty meat & potatoes fantasy setting with only a very tenuous relationship to Europe-that-was.

(And frankly, it does not have to be more than that given BioWare's stress on characters & combat, rather than world or even story)

If the worldbuilding had been more careful and thorough, we would already have had plenty of clearly non-European human (and non-human) peoples and cultures; we also would have had an explanation why humans, apparently recent arrivals from subtropical Par Vollen, succeeded in producing Northern European-looking people like Alistair and Anders in such a short timespan.

Well said – I agree completely.

I also very much agree. The argument that characters with features of African decent have to be rationalized into the lore of a fantasy setting using real world history and geography as a basis for the argument is ridiculous. In a realm where oxmen, elves, magic, and dragons are taken as a given, black people (human, dwarf, or elf) have to be explained? Gimme a break. <_<

I hope what one poster said is true, and that with the new or upgraded game enginge, a fuller racial pallet has already been included in DA3, and that this argument is moot.

[jillabender]

Fortlowe wrote...

The argument that characters with features of African descent have to be rationalized into the lore of a fantasy setting using real world history and geography as a basis for the argument is ridiculous. In a realm where oxmen, elves, magic, and dragons are taken as a given, black people (human, dwarf, or elf) have to be explained? Gimme a break. <_<

I hope what one poster said is true, and that with the new or upgraded game enginge, a fuller racial pallet has already been included in DA3, and that this argument is moot.

Absolutely. I hope that we'll see more and better options to allow us to make non-white characters in the future.

Modifié par jillabender, 19 août 2012 - 10:40 .

[King Cousland]

Reading the OP's suggestion:

 

Getting a few pages into the thread:

 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Das Tentakel wrote...

Because it's not about hair or lore, but about inclusiveness (even if that was not the intention of the OP).
And that's inclusiveness in regards to a very specific group in a very specific country that historically got a rotten deal.

Inclusiveness is good and so is variety, so here's my vote for Afros.

I agree that variety is good, so I also vote for afros, but I disagree that inclusiveness is valuable in and of itself.

[King Cousland]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Das Tentakel wrote...

Because it's not about hair or lore, but about inclusiveness (even if that was not the intention of the OP).
And that's inclusiveness in regards to a very specific group in a very specific country that historically got a rotten deal.

Inclusiveness is good and so is variety, so here's my vote for Afros.

I agree that variety is good, so I also vote for afros, but I disagree that inclusiveness is valuable in and of itself.

Indeed. Inclusiveness for the sake of inclusiveness can often just be patronising or feel stapled on I think. 

Modifié par King Cousland, 20 août 2012 - 01:00 .

[ShadyKat]

Seriously, Mass Effect had the same problem, the trilogy had no black hair options.

[Mr Fixit]

King Cousland wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I agree that variety is good, so I also vote for afros, but I disagree that inclusiveness is valuable in and of itself.

Indeed. Inclusiveness for the sake of inclusiveness can often just be patronising or feel stapled on I think. 

I don't really know what to say. I am white, and I am living in a country where there are very few people of different colours, so I've never paid this issue any attention. But I can understand and sympathize with those who really are bothered by the lack of inclusiveness in games. It kinda is a big deal for a lot of people, when I think about it.

Modifié par Mr Fixit, 20 août 2012 - 08:16 .

[ScotGaymer]

King Cousland wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Das Tentakel wrote...

Because it's not about hair or lore, but about inclusiveness (even if that was not the intention of the OP).
And that's inclusiveness in regards to a very specific group in a very specific country that historically got a rotten deal.

Inclusiveness is good and so is variety, so here's my vote for Afros.

I agree that variety is good, so I also vote for afros, but I disagree that inclusiveness is valuable in and of itself.

Indeed. Inclusiveness for the sake of inclusiveness can often just be patronising or feel stapled on I think. 

This was my point, I am all for it as long as it blends into the universe properly, whatever "it" may be.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 20 août 2012 - 01:45 .