107 réponses à ce sujet

[Naked Fury]

There is a general misapprehension regarding cause and effect. I certainly gave Dragon Age a fair shake, though ultimately I found it lacking. I'm skipping dialogue because it is generally awkward and uninteresting, along with the whole "story." Not vice versa.

It is absolutely not true that good, original stories cannot exist in the Fantasy genre. I cited BG2 and KOTOR in the original post. Maybe the issue is that people don't read much nowadays? Pick up any Dragonlance novel (at least the earlier ones) and you'll find an example of superb storytelling.

There is a vastness of missed opportunity in Dragon Age. I guess the saddest part is that people don't seem to notice.

[DragonRageGT]

May be you need just to go back to basics and start your 12 steps again! Something like

- just for today I will not hit the Esc key.

- just for today I'll believe in all those people that are fascinated by the game AND the story and not judge it before fully experiencing it...

- just for today I'll leave DA alone and go back to my drug of choice... (WoW!)

[Tymaara]

I'd have to disagree. If you were to take the main protagonists and stick them in a fantasy novel with the same plot lines and dialogue (given the fact they would have to expand a bit to fill a novel) I think you'd actually have quite an engaging story on your hands.

I never expected it to be a "choose your own adventure" book in game format, but so far the story lines of each character that I've delved deeper into have given the proper returns: Curiosity in their history, and anxiousness to know the outcome.

That makes DA:O a "Page turner" for me. But you can't start at the beginning (on the first page), start skipping important dialogue and expect 3 chapters later to understand these vauge comments, or even deeper into the game where those very same conversations can have a lasting impact on the whole game...



in summary, you can't do a book review by reading pages 1-3, 245, 312, and then the ending. You also can't say the storyline is awful when you're skipping over it.

[Naked Fury]

Tymaara wrote...

in summary, you can't do a book review by reading pages 1-3, 245, 312, and then the ending. You also can't say the storyline is awful when you're skipping over it.

No, I suffered through the game's dialogue, as I explained and later clarifed. I only became an escape key junkie during the last quarter, when my tolerance for the insipid reached its limit. My precioussssss escape key.

[Tymaara]

Misunderstood then. I had read you went through the opening cut-scene and early in the game began skipping mundane dialogue. It's different if you've suffered through it till the end.



To keep with the book comparison (and when discussing strictly the story aspect of DO:A it's a good analogy), there have been many highly praised books that I've found to be complete rubbish, and others that I've picked up because of the name or cover art and thoroughly enjoyed, only to find later that it received horrible reviews. I guess that's like this game- everyone is going to have some degree of bleh. I think that if I found the story as bad as I'm assuming you do (thank goodness I don't!), I wouldn't have bothered with the game at that point. Life is too short to suffer through the mundane.

[booke63]

Bummer for you, Naked. We all feel for you and certainly wish you were having a better time. (Pat you on the back and give you sympathetic eyes.) For now, the escape key is just fine! None of us are blaming the victim here; escape key addiction is serious business, and we all know it will take time to overcome. It probably won't be with this game, but that you can admit your addiction is a crucial first step. There will be more games! Don't give up, OK? In the meantime...we're here for you.

Thanks

Modifié par booke63, 22 décembre 2009 - 01:35 .

[soteria]

Naked Fury wrote...

There is a general misapprehension regarding cause and effect. I certainly gave Dragon Age a fair shake, though ultimately I found it lacking. I'm skipping dialogue because it is generally awkward and uninteresting, along with the whole "story." Not vice versa.

It is absolutely not true that good, original stories cannot exist in the Fantasy genre. I cited BG2 and KOTOR in the original post. Maybe the issue is that people don't read much nowadays? Pick up any Dragonlance novel (at least the earlier ones) and you'll find an example of superb storytelling.

There is a vastness of missed opportunity in Dragon Age. I guess the saddest part is that people don't seem to notice.

I'll just chalk this one up to no accounting for people's tastes.  I wouldn't have called Dragonlance an example of superb storytelling.  I think the only sad thing here is that you seem to think that because you didn't enjoy the story, the problem is with the people who enjoyed it.

[SleeplessInSigil]

I'm sure "Frank" can come up with a better plot, premise, dialog and execution.

Give him a chance, people. Let him post his absolutely-original and cliche-free masterpiece here.
We have the acid out.

Modifié par SleeplessInSigil, 22 décembre 2009 - 03:32 .

[car0us3L]

You obviously don't want a story line, so a game like Pac-Man or Tetris would be your best bet...



All games have story lines these days and you have to listen to a dialouge in order to deeply understand the story. To appreciate a storyline, you really have to be into it. DAO has done this for me, I find myself wanting to know more and more with each and moment.

[SleeplessInSigil]

 Actually we thought Dragon Age ripped off World of Warcraft, more like. amirite?

[car0us3L]

Wow, another game compared to WoW....Wow...haha

[mmu1]

Naked Fury wrote...

There is a general misapprehension regarding cause and effect. I certainly gave Dragon Age a fair shake, though ultimately I found it lacking. I'm skipping dialogue because it is generally awkward and uninteresting, along with the whole "story." Not vice versa.

It is absolutely not true that good, original stories cannot exist in the Fantasy genre. I cited BG2 and KOTOR in the original post. Maybe the issue is that people don't read much nowadays? Pick up any Dragonlance novel (at least the earlier ones) and you'll find an example of superb storytelling.

There is a vastness of missed opportunity in Dragon Age. I guess the saddest part is that people don't seem to notice.

Ok, I was kind of with you until you brought up Dragonlance books as an example of good storytelling.

Dragon Age is pretty derivative, though its LotR influences don't come from the books - rather, it steals wholesale from the movies, when it comes to many of the visuals. The scene with the Archdemon on the bridge and the army of Darkspawn below it, anyone?

In terms of ideas, some of the things it deals with - which I can't really talk about without major spoilers - are actually quite similar to those in  Lois McMaster Bujold's Sharing Knife books...

[DragonRageGT]

mmu1 wrote...

Ok, I was kind of with you until you brought up Dragonlance books as an example of good storytelling.

Dragon Age is pretty derivative, though its LotR influences don't come from the books - rather, it steals wholesale from the movies, when it comes to many of the visuals. The scene with the Archdemon on the bridge and the army of Darkspawn below it, anyone?

In terms of ideas, some of the things it deals with - which I can't really talk about without major spoilers - are actually quite similar to those in  Lois McMaster Bujold's Sharing Knife books...

You mean this scene? I actually see it as a great tribute to a great movie and I had to capture it! With me, I mean, my char in it instead of a hobbit!



And I made my desktop from a screenie of that too!

http://www.leoalli.c.../my_desktop.jpg

Modifié par RageGT, 22 décembre 2009 - 04:21 .

[Amioran]

1. Tolkien didn't create anything new. To all people as you that thinks he did I just suggest to start learning a bit more literature instead of resorting to idiocies.
2. All the talk about originality is utterly asinine considering the medium we are talking about. A game will never win a nobel for literature and it is difficult that someone as Rimbaud will ever work for a game developer, so stop insulting intelligence.
3. You talk about originality then you come here repeating what others have said many times already. Learn to criticize yourself before doing so to others.
4. You press Escape every time you should read and you either want to jude something you don't either know. You seem to me just like the critics that said to Delacroix his colors were bad without either having watched his paintings, only because he was in antithesis to David. You bring shame to intelligence and what's worse you don't either understand it.
5. If you don't like the game then don't play it. What's so good on coming on this forum complaining? Will that resolve the issue? Or you do it to have 5 minutes of celebrity you desperately need? Or maybe you want to look the original/high taste one when it's obvious you don't either know of what you're talking about?
6. Believe me, you will not understand an original thing neither if it was before your eyes; stop trying to judge things on a the basis of something you cannot either decently grasp.

Modifié par Amioran, 22 décembre 2009 - 05:00 .

[Bibdy]

I think its more likely you wanted to rush to the ending to see what happened and skipped tons of dialogue just to get there faster. Then when you reached the climax, you felt it was a bit of a cliche, and have analyzed the game to death since then.

I know, because that's exactly what I did, and felt.

Modifié par Bibdy, 22 décembre 2009 - 05:22 .

[KalosCast]

I also skip all the plot of a game if I don't like the opening cutscene. Everybody knows that the first unplayable part of a game is where the developers spend the most time.

[JackFuzz]

Sounds like you don't have enough time to play this game.

When you do get time, just sit back and listen to ALL of the dialogue, then read ALL the codexs.  The game becomes so interesting it's unbelievable.  

But like I said, it sounds like you don't have time to get the most out of this game.  If you have a fast paced life then yea escape is your best friend!

MUST SOLVE THE NEXT TASK!!

MUST SOLVE THE NEXT TASK!!

Problem solving is cool but sometimes it's just fun to kick back and RELAX and take in some good dialogue.

Modifié par JackFuzz, 22 décembre 2009 - 05:25 .

[Naked Fury]

mmu1 wrote...

Naked Fury wrote...

There is a general misapprehension regarding cause and effect. I certainly gave Dragon Age a fair shake, though ultimately I found it lacking. I'm skipping dialogue because it is generally awkward and uninteresting, along with the whole "story." Not vice versa.

It is absolutely not true that good, original stories cannot exist in the Fantasy genre. I cited BG2 and KOTOR in the original post. Maybe the issue is that people don't read much nowadays? Pick up any Dragonlance novel (at least the earlier ones) and you'll find an example of superb storytelling.

There is a vastness of missed opportunity in Dragon Age. I guess the saddest part is that people don't seem to notice.

Ok, I was kind of with you until you brought up Dragonlance books as an example of good storytelling.

Dragon Age is pretty derivative, though its LotR influences don't come from the books - rather, it steals wholesale from the movies, when it comes to many of the visuals. The scene with the Archdemon on the bridge and the army of Darkspawn below it, anyone?

In terms of ideas, some of the things it deals with - which I can't really talk about without major spoilers - are actually quite similar to those in  Lois McMaster Bujold's Sharing Knife books...

Remember I said the earlier Dragonlance -- written in the 80s. You probably haven't read those. But I only mentioned it arbitrarily since I had D&D in mind due to BG2.

Yet the particulars don't matter. The assertion that nothing original or interesting can be written within a fantasy setting is self-evidently false. Such a claim could only be made by someone who doesn't read, or worse. Plus, BG2 and KOTOR already refute the idea.

Naked Fury wrote...

Looking back, the seeds of my dialogue-skipping addiction were sown as early as the opening movie.

I think many didn't understand this first sentence of the OP. To sow means to plant, the fruits of which are reaped later. The opening scene planted seeds, but my total disinterest with the story (hitting escape) didn't "flower" until 75% through.

It looks like most responders thought I was hitting escape from the outset. Like I've said several times now, I did give DA chance. And I said in the OP that I didn't skip any of BG2 or KOTOR, so you can't pull out the powergamer card.

[Dennis Carpenter]

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

 Actually we thought Dragon Age ripped off World of Warcraft, more like. amirite?

Actually (though I am not a fan of  either) I have always been under the impression WOW ripped off Everquest.............

[Zenon]

Well, Tolkien actually borrowed folklore of elves and dwarves already. All fantasy based on this setting including elves, dwarves, orcs (missing this time), magic, etc. have some parts in common. So from that point of view it's not entirely new. Oh, humans are part of almost every story, not even fantasy. How boring!



Anyway, sorry to hear you didn't like the game as much as many others. Even more sad to hear it seems the last really thrilling (Bioware) game you played was KotOR. Tried Mass Effect yet? Know Jade Empire? Both are great and have also quite a story. Especially Mass Effect is a bit more straight-forward, which you might like.



Perhaps some situations or dialogue structures seem here and there like a slight déja-vu. Maybe there are some distant parallels, but I find Dragon Age nevertheless exceptionally well written and made.

[bzombo]

nksaint wrote...

You dont see a resemblance in a Hurlock and an Ogre from LotRs?...I think it is fairly clear that some aspects of the stories are similar.

except you're trying to fit your claims into what you want. a da ogre is that huge, blue monstrosity. unless you meant orock, or however it is spelled.

[bzombo]

Rainen89 wrote...

I do, I also see a resemblance between orcs/trolls/goblins/demons/dragons/elves/dwarves blah, blah, blah, blah, blah those things or ideas at least existed way before LOTR I assure you. Yes they're similar. Frankly the only thing that seems to change in peoples interpretation of size/appearance is elves/trolls. For whatever reason. Otherwise it's pretty much copy/paste. This is a fantasy game if they want a fantasy crowd they need to pick similar elements. Frankly the broodmother concept is completely original.

i'm waiting for broodmother-jaba the hut comparisons.

[bzombo]

Naked Fury wrote...

mmu1 wrote...

Naked Fury wrote...

There is a general misapprehension regarding cause and effect. I certainly gave Dragon Age a fair shake, though ultimately I found it lacking. I'm skipping dialogue because it is generally awkward and uninteresting, along with the whole "story." Not vice versa.

It is absolutely not true that good, original stories cannot exist in the Fantasy genre. I cited BG2 and KOTOR in the original post. Maybe the issue is that people don't read much nowadays? Pick up any Dragonlance novel (at least the earlier ones) and you'll find an example of superb storytelling.

There is a vastness of missed opportunity in Dragon Age. I guess the saddest part is that people don't seem to notice.

Ok, I was kind of with you until you brought up Dragonlance books as an example of good storytelling.

Dragon Age is pretty derivative, though its LotR influences don't come from the books - rather, it steals wholesale from the movies, when it comes to many of the visuals. The scene with the Archdemon on the bridge and the army of Darkspawn below it, anyone?

In terms of ideas, some of the things it deals with - which I can't really talk about without major spoilers - are actually quite similar to those in  Lois McMaster Bujold's Sharing Knife books...

Remember I said the earlier Dragonlance -- written in the 80s. You probably haven't read those. But I only mentioned it arbitrarily since I had D&D in mind due to BG2.

Yet the particulars don't matter. The assertion that nothing original or interesting can be written within a fantasy setting is self-evidently false. Such a claim could only be made by someone who doesn't read, or worse. Plus, BG2 and KOTOR already refute the idea.

Naked Fury wrote...

Looking back, the seeds of my dialogue-skipping addiction were sown as early as the opening movie.

I think many didn't understand this first sentence of the OP. To sow means to plant, the fruits of which are reaped later. The opening scene planted seeds, but my total disinterest with the story (hitting escape) didn't "flower" until 75% through.

It looks like most responders thought I was hitting escape from the outset. Like I've said several times now, I did give DA chance. And I said in the OP that I didn't skip any of BG2 or KOTOR, so you can't pull out the powergamer card.

i don't think anyone is naive enough to think this is an entire game
teeming with 100% originality. where the originality shines through is
in the presentation. you reference dragonlance novels from the 80s,
which based on who you ask would be good or bad reads. anyway, i'm not
sure how original novels based on a proprietary world owned by tsr(back
then) would necessarily be. good? creative? sure, why not? maybe your
word choice is the problem here. those old novels had some authors who
are now quite accomplished. the world and personalities of the
characters could hardly be called original. well done? that argument
could very well be made. originality is very hard.  almost everything
now is influenced by the past.

Modifié par bzombo, 22 décembre 2009 - 07:14 .

[maladictor2009]

I must say that I agree there are to many ripoffs in this game.