434 réponses à ce sujet

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Then I suppose you and I have a vastly different opinion of 'timely manner', as well as what it takes to fully enjoy that portion of the game. But that's fine, please continue trumpeting how the micro-transactions are absolutely vital and are the seventh sign of the apocalypse.

I can't remember what my N7 score isexactly because I don't keep constant track of it, but it's over 300. I don't play insanely frequently, but I've managed to have a good amount of fun with the content I've unlocked. I've never felt at a disadvantage due to not having unlocked a particular gun, nor do I feel that I am being prevented from enjoying the game to its fullest.

Modifié par TsaiMeLemoni, 13 août 2012 - 11:22 .

[o Ventus]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

Velocithon wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Making money isn't a problem. Literally everybody does it.

It's the underhanded, shifty means by which the money is acquired that's the problem.

Point exactly.

People seem to jump at conclusions, thinking those against these practices are against these companies making money. That's a completely false and uneducated assumption.

Take for instance, the ME3 MP micro transactions. You don't have to buy any at all. But it takes FOREVER to unlock things in MP. Forever. If you really really want to unlock everything and enjoy the MP to it's fullest in a timely manner, you have no choice but to buy packs with cash. So, you don't HAVE to buy anything...but to enjoy the full game, you really do have to. And THAT...is wrong.

Um...have you actually played ME3 MP? Because it doesn't. Not by a long shot. Add in the packs they give every few weekends for simply participating in an event (usually the squad goal is insanely easy to achieve, like...making it through one match), and you don't have to try very hard to get stuff. I bought one pack just because I wanted to, but everything else I've gotten I've achieved through actual play and awards from events.

So have you maxed out all of the UR's and the N7 weapons yet?

Anything that isn't a starter weapon?

Modifié par o Ventus, 13 août 2012 - 11:24 .

[Mazebook]

legion999 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

games are too cheap anyway...it was bound to happen...The pricing of AAA games has not changed in 20 years.

I have it rather this way,
where i can choose if this stuff is worth to me, than being forced to buy everything at a higher price point.

No.

sure,
they have never been cheaper than nowadays.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

o Ventus wrote...

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

Velocithon wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Making money isn't a problem. Literally everybody does it.

It's the underhanded, shifty means by which the money is acquired that's the problem.

Point exactly.

People seem to jump at conclusions, thinking those against these practices are against these companies making money. That's a completely false and uneducated assumption.

Take for instance, the ME3 MP micro transactions. You don't have to buy any at all. But it takes FOREVER to unlock things in MP. Forever. If you really really want to unlock everything and enjoy the MP to it's fullest in a timely manner, you have no choice but to buy packs with cash. So, you don't HAVE to buy anything...but to enjoy the full game, you really do have to. And THAT...is wrong.

Um...have you actually played ME3 MP? Because it doesn't. Not by a long shot. Add in the packs they give every few weekends for simply participating in an event (usually the squad goal is insanely easy to achieve, like...making it through one match), and you don't have to try very hard to get stuff. I bought one pack just because I wanted to, but everything else I've gotten I've achieved through actual play and awards from events.

So have you maxed out all of the UR's and the N7 weapons yet?

Anything that isn't a starter weapon?

No I haven't unlocked everything, and that's not the argument. The argument is that it takes 'forever to unlock things' if you don't fork over cash, and that's just not true.

In fact, I would probably have more stuff unlocked/maxed if I made myself wait and get PSP's everytime, but sometimes I like getting a Recruit Pack or Veteran pack just to build my equipment back up.

Modifié par TsaiMeLemoni, 13 août 2012 - 11:29 .

[o Ventus]

maaaze wrote...

legion999 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

games are too cheap anyway...it was bound to happen...The pricing of AAA games has not changed in 20 years.

I have it rather this way,
where i can choose if this stuff is worth to me, than being forced to buy everything at a higher price point.

No.

sure,
they have never been cheaper than nowadays.

Compare the budget to something like Halo 2 on the original Xbox to, say, Gears of War 3 or ME3.

And that's just a span of 8 or so years.

[LinksOcarina]

Velocithon wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Velocithon wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Oh no! A business wants to make money? Damn them! Damn them to hell!

If you knew the issue, you'd understand it has nothing to do with them making money, rather it's the manner they decide to make it. I suggest you educate yourself fully before making such replies.

They can make money however they want to and the consumer base will respond either negatively or positively. That's how capitalism works. I personally don't see this as a problem.

If a consumer base responds negatively, then it becomes a problem for them. This is me responding negatively (somewhat). This is me saying there is a problem and hoping other people realize this and ask for change.

So, why do you have the right to tell people what they need to change? Not judgemental at all?

And honestly, shouting the sky is falling over common practices since 2007 is not going to change things, especially since every game now is detailing extra DLC, day one DLC, microtransactions, and other methods employed to make money is like saying "fire" in a crowded building, inciting a panic when there really isen't one in the end. It is business as usual, something the gaming industry is vilified for.

And everyone forgets about that in the end too and just enjoys their game. Funny how it works. 

[o Ventus]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

No I haven't unlocked everything, and that's not the argument. The argument is that it takes 'forever' to unlock 'things' if you don't fork over cash, and that's just not true.

In fact, I would probably have more stuff unlocked/maxed if I made myself wait and get PSP's everytime, but sometimes I like getting a Recruit Pack or Veteran pack just to build my equipment back up.

The point being made is that it CAN take "forever" (Please, people need to learn what context means) to unlock or upgrade.

That's the very nature of the RNG-based unlock system.

[Pitznik]

o Ventus wrote...

So have you maxed out all of the UR's and the N7 weapons yet?

Anything that isn't a starter weapon?

Maxing N7s = impossible

Maxing UR = indeed takes forever, but those aren't necessary

Rares let you play any difficulty and maxing them isn't that time consuming. It starts slow, but then it is getting faster and faster, as your manifest fills in.

Modifié par Pitznik, 13 août 2012 - 11:30 .

[Tealjaker94]

I love that they have the micro-transactions. I get more stuff added to the multiplayer and I don't pay anything. I certainly don't mind having to unlock new things. In fact, I feel it adds to the experience. It's always nice to have a goal to shoot for.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

o Ventus wrote...

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

No I haven't unlocked everything, and that's not the argument. The argument is that it takes 'forever' to unlock 'things' if you don't fork over cash, and that's just not true.

In fact, I would probably have more stuff unlocked/maxed if I made myself wait and get PSP's everytime, but sometimes I like getting a Recruit Pack or Veteran pack just to build my equipment back up.

The point being made is that it CAN take "forever" (Please, people need to learn what context means) to unlock or upgrade.

That's the very nature of the RNG-based unlock system.

Sure, I suppose it could take forever if you never play. It all depends on how much time you put into it and what you expect from that time.

[Mazebook]

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

legion999 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

games are too cheap anyway...it was bound to happen...The pricing of AAA games has not changed in 20 years.

I have it rather this way,
where i can choose if this stuff is worth to me, than being forced to buy everything at a higher price point.

No.

sure,
they have never been cheaper than nowadays.

Compare the budget to something like Halo 2 on the original Xbox to, say, Gears of War 3 or ME3.

And that's just a span of 8 or so years.

Yes, the budgets have exploded in the last 10 years. Publishers know that the threshold is 60 Bucks for Video games.  So ether make smaller Games or find new revenue income to minimize the risk of financial failure.

[Hicks233]

"It just shows how the industry is declining for the fans."

Behave like a customer and you'll be moving in the right direction.

Fans are just asking to be bent over a barrel.

[admcmei]

Well, of course they try to make money, but there's also ethics. For now I feel they haven't surpassed a real limit: basically, as long as micro-transactions are just a shortcut to something you can achieve with gameplay, ok. A little sad but ok. I just hope the day never comes where, say, the packs are only available to buy. That will be a sad day. My impression is that they know it very well, and act in consequence. Both Bethesda and BioWare for example have been a lot more honest and less exploitive with DLC than they were with their previous chapters of their big franchises (Oblivion and ME2), concentrating more on giving a couple of big expansions than a lot of little useless plugins. I think it's gonna depend on the single games and on how the producers and distributors think they can frak with the fanbase. Basically, the more passionate and vocal and engaged a fanbase (Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect) the more the distributor will know they have to treat them well and that they cannot exploit them as much as they can a more casual audience (yes, I mean CoD and such).

[Velocithon]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

No I haven't unlocked everything, and that's not the argument. The argument is that it takes 'forever' to unlock 'things' if you don't fork over cash, and that's just not true.

In fact, I would probably have more stuff unlocked/maxed if I made myself wait and get PSP's everytime, but sometimes I like getting a Recruit Pack or Veteran pack just to build my equipment back up.

The point being made is that it CAN take "forever" (Please, people need to learn what context means) to unlock or upgrade.

That's the very nature of the RNG-based unlock system.

Sure, I suppose it could take forever if you never play. It all depends on how much time you put into it and what you expect from that time.

Go over to the MP forum. People have been playing this game a lot since release and are posting threads daily complaining how they can't seem to get content. You can spend millions of credits resulting from weeks of gaming and get nothing new.

[EnvyTB075]

Games are too cheap? Games are too cheap?

Come live in Australia and see just how well off the US is compared to the rest of the world in just about anything. I am NOT going to spend $120AU per game (rough equivalent) just because you have some twisted idea of "if it costs more, its better".

And can someone please explain how making a smaller game requires spending more money? I mean ME3 is undoubtedly a smaller game overall than ME2 was, yet it cost more money to develop? How?

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Velocithon wrote...

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

No I haven't unlocked everything, and that's not the argument. The argument is that it takes 'forever' to unlock 'things' if you don't fork over cash, and that's just not true.

In fact, I would probably have more stuff unlocked/maxed if I made myself wait and get PSP's everytime, but sometimes I like getting a Recruit Pack or Veteran pack just to build my equipment back up.

The point being made is that it CAN take "forever" (Please, people need to learn what context means) to unlock or upgrade.

That's the very nature of the RNG-based unlock system.

Sure, I suppose it could take forever if you never play. It all depends on how much time you put into it and what you expect from that time.

Go over to the MP forum. People have been playing this game a lot since release and are posting threads daily complaining how they can't seem to get content. You can spend millions of credits resulting from weeks of gaming and get nothing new.

That seems like it would also be a problem for people paying also. At a certain point I am sure it does take forever to completely max out everything, or achieve unlocking every character. That's not what I was responding to in your post, but rather the simple argument that it takes 'forever to unlock things'. Everything? Well yes, obviously.

Either way I am done replying to this thread; I've already said my opinion, and anything else from here will honestly just be the two of us re-iterating our differing opinions. No hard feelings, but I'd rather eat dinner.

Modifié par TsaiMeLemoni, 13 août 2012 - 11:47 .

[Velocithon]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

That seems like it would also be a problem for people paying also.

Ah, but no. Buying it is instantaneous. You don't have to play 40 minutes to earn enough credits for a single PSP.

The goal of micro transactions, IMO, is that people will hopefully get so frustrated with the system that they will impulsively buy a pack (or two) to try and get what they want. Boom, Bioware just earned $5+ (half a DLC) for giving out a random weapon pack that cost little to make.

[Mazebook]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Games are too cheap? Games are too cheap?

Come live in Australia and see just how well off the US is compared to the rest of the world in just about anything. I am NOT going to spend $120AU per game (rough equivalent) just because you have some twisted idea of "if it costs more, its better".

And can someone please explain how making a smaller game requires spending more money? I mean ME3 is undoubtedly a smaller game overall than ME2 was, yet it cost more money to develop? How?

Yes australia is screwed , I agree. I believe Yathzee discribed it as a "have the better beaches tax".
but i believe that actual price remained the same, only your dollar is far more worth than then compared to the us dollar.

ME 3 is about the same size as ME 2. There is far more dialoge lines in ME 3 than in ME 2 but ME 2 had more locations. 

[JPN17]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

I expect the number of top tier games that implement these kind of features will only go up in the future, so good luck on your dearth of games.

If you don't support it, don't buy it. Doesn't mean the core product suffers because of it. And if it happens to one day...return it.

As a final note, please let me know when you find any company anywhere who isn't trying to make money.

The problem is the product being released is suffering. ME3 was sold incomplete. We've already seen that with from ashes. They deliberately cut Javik out of the game even though everything was finished and then sold him back to us. Javik is literally on the disc, he's just locked. People have found many other things on the disc that aren't accessable, they're just waiting to be unlocked by DLC. Another example is Illium. Before the game released Illium was listed as one of the places we would be able to return to in ME3. The crescent nebula has a reaper in it in ME3, but you cannot travel there. I have no doubt in my mind this is another thing that has been cut from the final game in order to sell to us later on.

What incentive does Bioware have to give us a complete game, when they can cut stuff out and sell it back to us later for an even greater profit? The days of getting a complete game on launch are over and games do suffer because of it. Now it's all about giving you some of it and nickel and diming you if you want the complete package. Selling content developed after the game is released is fine, I don't have any issue with that. Deliberately developing content, then cutting it out to sell back later is where I draw the line.

Modifié par JPN17, 14 août 2012 - 12:05 .

[wolfsite]

If you want to blame someone, blame the consumer.

You can't fault a business for seeing that the consumer is buying up these services and wanting to increase there profit by using the methods more often.

A lot of people say the consumer does not want these methods, yet the consumer is the one showing that the demand for these methods is present.

[amat3rasu]

I personally have no issue with Day 1 DLC or micro-transactions. If there's something I want, I just buy them. I don't understand why fans complain about this a lot. BW and any other game company is out to make money. Understand that and you'll get why they resort to such methods. If it didn't work well, they would have stopped the D1 DLC trend but since we consumers seem to respond well to it, the trend continues.

[vurtual3]

[quote]Tealjaker94 wrote...

[quote]Velocithon wrote...

[quote]Tealjaker94 wrote...

[quote]Velocithon wrote...

[quote]Tealjaker94 wrote...

Oh no! A business wants to make money? Damn them! Damn them to hell![/quote]
If you knew the issue, you'd understand it has nothing to do with them making money, rather it's the manner they decide to make it. I suggest you educate yourself fully before making such replies.

[/quote]
They can make money however they want to and the consumer base will respond either negatively or positively. That's how capitalism works. I personally don't see this as a problem.

[/quote]
If a consumer base responds negatively, then it becomes a problem for them. This is me responding negatively (somewhat). This is me saying there is a problem and hoping other people realize this and ask for change.

[/quote]
And this is me disagreeing with you. 

[/quote

And this is me agreeing with op and disagreeing with you.

[Mr.House]

*sigh* Good to know Bioware will keep cutting content out for day one dlc.

[CS420]

Velocithon wrote...
 I thought this was a great read. It just shows how the industry is declining for the fans. Sure, the studios might see this as a very successful move, but as a fan of games this brings nothing but sadness. It's a shame that a great studio like Bioware fell into this trap.
I urge all of you not give into these tactics. Day One DLC is bad. Micro-transactions are bad. They are trademarks of greedy companies, and Bioware really opened my eyes with this given the poor quality of ME3. Personally, in the future, I will refuse to support studios which do this.
I'm interested in what other people here think about this.

I'm sure that day one dlc and microtransitions are bad in your opinion, but it is just that.  Microtransactions allow players to just pay for the content they want without wasting money on content they don't want, while Day 1 DLC shortens the waiting time when you want more content.