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Bioware on how to monetise players *article*


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#101
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Ninja Stan wrote...
Shale was indeed "cut content," but it wasn't cut with the intention to sell later as DLC. Shale was cut with the intention of not having it in the game at all, ever. That's what "cut" content is, the stuff the ends up on the editing room floor, like deleted scenes and alternate endings and openings, extended scenes, unedited footage--oh hey, wait a tic. We pay extra for cut content all the time already, don't we? in the form of DVD special features? And some of that stuff is cut directly from the finished film during the editing process.

I suppose you COULD pay extra money for special DVD features, but you don't have to.  You just have to shop around.  A couple of years ago I wanted to buy "District 9" on DVD, but they were charging $22 for the standard edition and Barnes and Noble.  I thought that was ridiculous, so I went to Walmart, and sure enough, they had the special edition version of District 9 bundled together with a copy of Starship Troopers for $15.  I wish Walmart sold DLC.

Modifié par bobobo878, 14 août 2012 - 03:42 .


#102
naughty99

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bobobo878 wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...
Shale was indeed "cut content," but it wasn't cut with the intention to sell later as DLC. Shale was cut with the intention of not having it in the game at all, ever. That's what "cut" content is, the stuff the ends up on the editing room floor, like deleted scenes and alternate endings and openings, extended scenes, unedited footage--oh hey, wait a tic. We pay extra for cut content all the time already, don't we? in the form of DVD special features? And some of that stuff is cut directly from the finished film during the editing process.

I suppose you COULD pay extra money for special DVD features, but you don't have to.  You just have to shop around.  A couple of years ago I wanted to buy "District 9" on DVD, but they were charging $22 for the standard edition and Barnes and Noble.  I thought that was ridiculous, so I went to Walmart, and sure enough, they had the special edition version of District 9 bundled together with a copy of Starship Troopers for $15.  I wish Walmart sold DLC.


There are actually plenty of options and generally a lot more flexible pricing compared with packaged DVDs. 

You can pick up pretty much any GOTY/Ultimate version of a game on sale with all the DLC for around $10 or so if you wait for a good sale from Amazon, Steam, GMG, etc., sometimes even cheaper.

Modifié par naughty99, 14 août 2012 - 03:51 .


#103
CS420

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bobobo878 wrote...
I suppose you COULD pay extra money for special DVD features, but you don't have to.  You just have to shop around.  A couple of years ago I wanted to buy "District 9" on DVD, but they were charging $22 for the standard edition and Barnes and Noble.  I thought that was ridiculous, so I went to Walmart, and sure enough, they had the special edition version of District 9 bundled together with a copy of Starship Troopers for $15.  I wish Walmart sold DLC.

That's disgusting.  Is Walmart deliberately trying to cheapen the intellectual property of the fimmakers that stock it with DVDs?

#104
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naughty99 wrote...
There are actually plenty of options and generally a lot more flexible pricing compared with packaged DVDs. 
You can pick up pretty much any GOTY/Ultimate version of a game on sale with all the DLC for around $10 or if you wait for a good sale from Amazon, Steam, GMG, etc., sometimes even cheaper.

Yeah, I know, a couple of weeks ago I got Fallout 3 GOTY for $6.67, it's a shame Steam doesn't carry ME3.

#105
naughty99

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bobobo878 wrote...

naughty99 wrote...
There are actually plenty of options and generally a lot more flexible pricing compared with packaged DVDs. 
You can pick up pretty much any GOTY/Ultimate version of a game on sale with all the DLC for around $10 or if you wait for a good sale from Amazon, Steam, GMG, etc., sometimes even cheaper.

Yeah, I know, a couple of weeks ago I got Fallout 3 GOTY for $6.67, it's a shame Steam doesn't carry ME3.


I gather Origin is still sort of finding their way and experimenting with different pricing models. I imagine eventually we will start seeing some deep discount sales for EA games as well.

#106
Blastback

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naughty99 wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

naughty99 wrote...
There are actually plenty of options and generally a lot more flexible pricing compared with packaged DVDs. 
You can pick up pretty much any GOTY/Ultimate version of a game on sale with all the DLC for around $10 or if you wait for a good sale from Amazon, Steam, GMG, etc., sometimes even cheaper.

Yeah, I know, a couple of weeks ago I got Fallout 3 GOTY for $6.67, it's a shame Steam doesn't carry ME3.


I gather Origin is still sort of finding their way and experimenting with different pricing models. I imagine eventually we will start seeing some deep discount sales for EA games as well.

They currently say they won't have those kinds of sales.  Something about it cheapening the Intellectual Property I belive.

#107
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naughty99 wrote...

There are actually plenty of options and generally a lot more flexible pricing compared with packaged DVDs. 

You can pick up pretty much any GOTY/Ultimate version of a game on sale with all the DLC for around $10 or so if you wait for a good sale from Amazon, Steam, GMG, etc., sometimes even cheaper.


Something tells me we'll never see "Ultimate Editions" of DA2, ME2, or ME3 - DA:O Ultimate Edition is probably the last we'll see of that from BW. If you want everything their other games have to offer, you're gonna have to pay up.

Modifié par greengoron89, 14 août 2012 - 03:59 .


#108
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I think you're right, goron, which is sad, because I'm one of the few who loved everything BW has thrown at them, and would buy DLC, yet refuses to buy anything online, so I'm stuck.

#109
naughty99

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Blastback wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

naughty99 wrote...
There are actually plenty of options and generally a lot more flexible pricing compared with packaged DVDs. 
You can pick up pretty much any GOTY/Ultimate version of a game on sale with all the DLC for around $10 or if you wait for a good sale from Amazon, Steam, GMG, etc., sometimes even cheaper.

Yeah, I know, a couple of weeks ago I got Fallout 3 GOTY for $6.67, it's a shame Steam doesn't carry ME3.


I gather Origin is still sort of finding their way and experimenting with different pricing models. I imagine eventually we will start seeing some deep discount sales for EA games as well.

They currently say they won't have those kinds of sales.  Something about it cheapening the Intellectual Property I belive.


I know about that interview, but I think they are still experimenting with the pricing. 

I've seen DA Ultimate Edition as low as $14.99 on Origin, and there are a few third party resellers that sell digital download product keys for Origin games.

#110
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Preston9000 wrote...
Sadly, it's true, the industry is dying.  Videogame companies want to make high quality games, but are unable to make a proffit because they are continously robbed of their revenue by pirates. Crytek, for example, was robbed by so many pirates that they failed to profit from Crysis 2.  If this is how gamers reward developers for innovation, the industry will continue to decline.

Crysis 2...Innovation. :lol:

How awful those dirty pirates are. If only they thought of how they hurt the poor publishers and more importantly, the children.

#111
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bobobo878 wrote...
A couple of years ago I wanted to buy "District 9" on DVD, but they were charging $22 for the standard edition and Barnes and Noble.  I thought that was ridiculous, so I went to Walmart, and sure enough, they had the special edition version of District 9 bundled together with a copy of Starship Troopers for $15.  I wish Walmart sold DLC.

Haha, indeed.

#112
RedArmyShogun

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dheer wrote...

Preston9000 wrote...
Sadly, it's true, the industry is dying.  Videogame companies want to make high quality games, but are unable to make a proffit because they are continously robbed of their revenue by pirates. Crytek, for example, was robbed by so many pirates that they failed to profit from Crysis 2.  If this is how gamers reward developers for innovation, the industry will continue to decline.

Crysis 2...Innovation. :lol:

How awful those dirty pirates are. If only they thought of how they hurt the poor publishers and more importantly, the children.




He's nowhere near the level of Bussom Jack and yet tries to be him tsk tsk tsk.

Modifié par Confess-A-Bear, 14 août 2012 - 04:09 .


#113
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dheer wrote...

Preston9000 wrote...
Sadly, it's true, the industry is dying.  Videogame companies want to make high quality games, but are unable to make a proffit because they are continously robbed of their revenue by pirates. Crytek, for example, was robbed by so many pirates that they failed to profit from Crysis 2.  If this is how gamers reward developers for innovation, the industry will continue to decline.

Crysis 2...Innovation. :lol:
How awful those dirty pirates are. If only they thought of how they hurt the poor publishers and more importantly, the children.

Well yeah, sometimes when Game developers get robbed by pirates they are forced to make layoffs, and a lot of the people who get laid off have children.  I don't think that as many people would steal video games if they thought about those children. 

Confess-A-Bear wrote...
He's nowhere near the level of Bussom Jack and yet tries to be him tsk tsk tsk.

IKR?  My Dreamcast collection ain't worth a bucket of warm spit.

Modifié par Preston9000, 14 août 2012 - 04:19 .


#114
AshedMan

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I find it sickening and further illustrates why BioWare has been in such decline the last few years.

#115
Inquisitor Recon

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Unfortunately the industry has shown that this micro-transaction business works. Hell, just look at people paying for hats in TF2. Virtual hats that serve no purpose other than for other people to see you wearing a stupid hat. Gabe Newell is laughing somewhere while ripping off another massive turkey leg. People will buy anything.

Oh and I feel obligated to mention Crysis 3 for some reason.

#116
naughty99

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ReconTeam wrote...

Unfortunately the industry has shown that this micro-transaction business works. Hell, just look at people paying for hats in TF2. Virtual hats that serve no purpose other than for other people to see you wearing a stupid hat. Gabe Newell is laughing somewhere while ripping off another massive turkey leg. People will buy anything.


Certainly for those of us who don't buy virtual item packs like this, it's very hard to understand the motivation. However, I think TF2 has an admirable business model. You can definitely enjoy the game and have fun without spending any money at all (I've played more than 100 hours). Those who want to can spend money to buy things, but their characters are not overpowered compared with everyone else. Also there is a crafting system and you can craft most items.

No idea what the average ratio of people who spend money on F2P games or item pack DLC, etc., vs. people who don't, but I imagine even a small subset of players who buy things regularly are able to make these games profitable (and free for the rest of us).

#117
DukeOfNukes

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:ph34r:[inappropriate discussion removed]:ph34r:

Anymore, I have to rely on demo's, which are more often than not, never released. I ultimately end up waiting for these titles, and buying them either dirt cheap (no more than 20) or used where they get no money at all.

The industry is dying because there's no safe haven. I recently got burned by purchasing a Capcom game, and now I'm never dealing with them again. I know people that got burned purchasing Asura's Wrath. I feel kind of burned with Mass Effect 3...and I got the day 1 DLC for free.

Theoretically, I lose faith not only in these developers, but the industry as a whole. I can no longer make safe purchases, so I try to minimize loss. I'm less likely to take chances...I know Modern Warfare will give me a COMPLETE single player, even if it may not be as great as some others...so I spend my money there.

ME3's multiplayer is evidence of addict behaviour, not a rational being...and that's exactly what EA is going for. The quote from Ricitello is floating around...basically saying that in the heat of a battle, they could charge you real world money for more ammo or another life, and you'd be ammenable to take up the offer. It's a variation on "bait-and-switch" techniques...where you think you've already paid for the game, but after making the purchase, find out that it doesn't give you full access to all the features.

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 14 août 2012 - 08:15 .


#118
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Ladies and gentlemen, please remember that the Site Rules are still in effect in this conversation. Discussion, admission, encouragement, and advocacy of software piracy is not permitted here.

#119
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Bioware knows nothing about monetizing players. They should go to valve for advice how to make millions. I spent 0€ in ME3 MP store or on ME3 DLC while i spent about 20-30€ on TF2.

#120
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palker wrote...

Bioware knows nothing about monetizing players. They should go to valve for advice how to make millions. I spent 0€ in ME3 MP store or on ME3 DLC while i spent about 20-30€ on TF2.

Just because BioWare's method of microtransaction didn't entice YOU to spend money doesn't mean they know nothing about how to monetize players.

#121
admcmei

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palker wrote...

Bioware knows nothing about monetizing players. They should go to valve for advice how to make millions. I spent 0€ in ME3 MP store or on ME3 DLC while i spent about 20-30€ on TF2.


Yeah, let's insult BW for giving us the option to earn packs by playing and giving us free DLC! Those IDIOTS don't know how to exploit us!
Come on, people, let's not be ridiculous.
And personally, I always prefer paying for a whole product than the free-to-plays with micro-transactions. I don't know why people like it, it's a terrible tendency that can only hurt more and more as it spreads. If you can give me the game for free and earn, I don't know, from ads and sponsors, I'm all for it, otherwise just let me pay once and give me the whole damn game.

#122
TonyTheBossDanza123

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 I just want to jump in here for a second. To the people saying that the industry needs money, that the industry is underfunded and needs to find new sources of revenue in microtransactions and day one DLC, or DLC at all, I point you toward three cases: The Witcher 2, Deus Ex: HR, and Skyrim.

Now, what's unique about all three of those cases? They were all profitable, they were all critically acclaimed, and they were all respectful enough to not launch with cut content, day one DLC, or short, 10-15 hour game times. And, of course, all three were AAA titles. Two of those games provided free post launch support in the form of additional content added via patches, TW2 and Skyrim. Why, then, can all three of these games, two of which were in development for quite a few years, be so successful? Why isn't Bethesda, CDProjekt Red, or Eidos scrambling to milk their consumers out of every last dime? Why aren't they going bankrupt due to "Piracy" or "Games being too cheap", despite the fact that all three games were hugely popular on the PC, known for it's piracy problems?

Three reasons: First, they were good. Really good. Some of them might not have been your cup of tea but the fact is it is undeniable all three of them were high quality in some or all fields. Quality products (often, but not always) sell. Of course, quality does not guarantee popularity, nor does popularity indicate quality, but a quality product is more likely to sell then a low quality product.

Second, strong management. This industry suffers from a Blight! of mismanagement. Games that should not be green lit are green lit all the time, and publishers are astounded when they don't sell. THQ is currently crawling for it's life because it made a prolonged series of poor management decisions when funding games. A more recent, and tragic, example can be seen in the demise of 38 Studios. Kingdoms of Amalur allegedly sold over a million copies. Over one million copies for a brand new IP, at the end of the console cycle, in a saturated market of high quality RPG's. Surrounded by Skyrim and ME3 it still sold one million copies. In any other case that would be astounding, that would be a breakout success, 38 Studios would be high on life at the moment as they'd be already working on a sequel (DLC). Why did they crumble? Why were so many people suddenly financially screwed? Not because of pirates, not because of overexpensive development costs, but because of mismanagement. The management of 38 Studios decided that they would put so much money into their game that it would need to sell 3 million copies to break even. That is astounding. Whoever was in charge there should never work in this industry again, at least not in a management position. Amalur, no matter how good, was never going to sell 3 million copies. And 38 Studios isn't the only studio suffering from mismanagement. It can be seen in nearly every failed product, publishers who either pushed the developer too hard or not enough (being a publisher in this industry requires hitting a sweet spot between respecting the developers abilities and knowledge and knowing when to put your foot down) and developers who overblew their budget. This isn't to even talk about the millions and millions of dollars spent on marketting. Speaking of marketting costs...

Finally, and perhaps the biggest reason those games did so well, was that they had a dedicated fanbase. Look back at the most successful developers of this industries short history and what do you see? Each and every one of them fostered a die hard community of fans who would take a bullet for them any day. It can never be overstated the power a strong, loyal, large group of dedicated fans can do for your products. CDProjekt has done loads to earn their fans. There's a reason even knee deep in cultures that support piracy the act of illegally downloading The Witcher 2 is so frowned upon. DEHR, months before release, was not very high on most people's radar, and then the game got leaked. All of a sudden fan videos were popping up all over youtube, people were discussing how good it was on video game forums across the internet, and hype built for the game where before there had been only cynicism, for how could a game even come close to the depth of the original Deus Ex in 2011? Skyrim, of course, was helped along by the loyal fans of both TES series and Bethesda in general. Indeed, Skyrim had a large marketing campaign, but the power of those fans in the early days, the content and word of mouth they created, is no doubt a large part of the reason Skyrim reached such a mainstream success, a genre that very rarely sees such sales. And that's the key, word of mouth. You can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on marketing, or you can cut that budget and develop a band of loyal fans who will do that marketing for you for free. Loyal fanbases are a goldmine. They not only buy your game, they sell it for you too! Bioware should know this all too well. DAO sold based on word of mouth generated by the early adopters, early adopters who were familiar with Bioware's name and the high quality product associated with it. A name that over the last two years has become tarnished greatly with disappointment after disappointment.

For an additional example of how a company can become hugely successful, all while treating their consumers with respect, look no further than the juggernaut known as Valve. For years Valve supported TF2 free of charge. They carried this philosophy over to the L4D series, they released numerous updates for the Counter Strike series, and they're challenging the leviathans of the ARTS genre with the upcoming release of DOTA2 by offering all heroes for free, something League of Legends does not do. All the while they've managed to turn huge profits off their games through continued sales of the main product and the most ethical F2P systems you can find in this industry. Critics point to Steam, but Steam, while hugely successful, does not negate the fact that they've managed to both turn a profit from their games alone and treat their consumers with respect by offering free content, quality products, and microtransactions that don't amount to "Pay 2 Win".

So to sum it all up: The argument that the industry is dying, that game development costs too much and developers must find new ways to make money, is nothing more than a scarecrow, put up to defend mismanagement, unethical or shady business practices, and other failings on the part of the developers and publishers. Numerous examples exist debunking this myth, and it's perpetuation only helps the questionable companies continue their practices without change.

Modifié par TonyTheBossDanza123, 14 août 2012 - 10:22 .


#123
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How does Melo know that "gamers are actually happier"? He must avoid the BSN forums. Saying that just shows how ignorant and arrogant they're becoming. And those fans who "want more content", that doesn't mean that they want to be charged on day one for DLC, for something that could've easily been in the game to begin with. They have no choice but to pay for it if they desperately want to play new content. We all know how it works, we're not fools, but to come out and openly discuss their business strategy like that just shows that Bioware will continue to milk this franchise dry. If that's how they're going to treat their fans, they can shove Mass Effect up their arse.

Oh well, Cyberpunk and The Witcher 3 it is then.

/waves goodbye

#124
Dancing Douglas

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It's really sad to see this is what the industry has become.

I thought you were better than this, Bioware.

Also, I totally appreciate Tony's last post.

It explains just about everything that needs to be explained.

Modifié par Dancing Douglas, 14 août 2012 - 10:46 .


#125
Ridwan

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You know, you could just do what other people do. Not buy into it.