925 réponses à ce sujet

[LiarasShield]

eye basher wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

I'm not willing to become like the reapers or the catalyst in order to beat them I'd rather allow everyone to make their own choice and if it fails then that is fine with me because we gave our best shot without the crucible and maybe the next generation will find a better way but I will not become like the monster I've been fighting in order to win like shepard has always done in mass effect 1 and 2

Also just like anderson has said

Their is always another way!!

in other words your not fit to be in command of anything because you seem unable to make tough choices.

I'm not willing to become like the monsters that have been destroying the universe in order to save us I'm not willnig to take free will or the ability for everyones choice to matter wether organic or synthetic in order to beat the reapers

I'm not willing to become like the galactic monsters that have caused so much harm already and their way of thinking will only cause long term damage anyway


Altering races or the galaxy to save them will only cause long term damage and suffering just like the reapers keep doing every 50 thousand years or so


You wanna know why the cycle won't end because you're still using their logic to beat them that is why the cycle truely won't end and the endless pain of the reapers or any other powerful creature that may surpass them will continue on forever and ever and ever that is why I hope me3 is the final game

Modifié par LiarasShield, 15 août 2012 - 02:34 .

[ATiBotka]

LiarasShield wrote...

eye basher wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

I'm not willing to become like the reapers or the catalyst in order to beat them I'd rather allow everyone to make their own choice and if it fails then that is fine with me because we gave our best shot without the crucible and maybe the next generation will find a better way but I will not become like the monster I've been fighting in order to win like shepard has always done in mass effect 1 and 2

Also just like anderson has said

Their is always another way!!

in other words your not fit to be in command of anything because you seem unable to make tough choices.

I'm not willing to become like the monsters that have been destroying the universe in order to save us I'm not willnig to take free will or the ability for everyones choice to matter wether organic or synthetic in order to beat the reapers

I'm not willing to become like the galactic monsters that have caused so much harm already and their way of thinking will only cause long term damage anyway

So you let everyone die.

[LiarasShield]

ATiBotka wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

eye basher wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

I'm not willing to become like the reapers or the catalyst in order to beat them I'd rather allow everyone to make their own choice and if it fails then that is fine with me because we gave our best shot without the crucible and maybe the next generation will find a better way but I will not become like the monster I've been fighting in order to win like shepard has always done in mass effect 1 and 2

Also just like anderson has said

Their is always another way!!

in other words your not fit to be in command of anything because you seem unable to make tough choices.

I'm not willing to become like the monsters that have been destroying the universe in order to save us I'm not willnig to take free will or the ability for everyones choice to matter wether organic or synthetic in order to beat the reapers

I'm not willing to become like the galactic monsters that have caused so much harm already and their way of thinking will only cause long term damage anyway

So you let everyone die.

Yes better to die free then to become like the reapers and the catalyst

[Pitznik]

LiarasShield wrote...

Yes better to die free then to become like the reapers and the catalyst

What gives you the right to decide this for the whole galaxy?

[LiarasShield]

Pitznik wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Yes better to die free then to become like the reapers and the catalyst

What gives you the right to decide this for the whole galaxy?

That is also why I chose refuse so that everyone can make their own choice wether they want to fight with shepard till the end use the 3 twisted crucible choices or leave it up to the next generation to find a way


Again pitznik also by choosing one of the three choices you're altering organics or synthetics you're taking away their freedom or their choices in my eyes you're far more evil then I could ever hope to be

Modifié par LiarasShield, 15 août 2012 - 02:39 .

[eye basher]

LiarasShield wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

eye basher wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

I'm not willing to become like the reapers or the catalyst in order to beat them I'd rather allow everyone to make their own choice and if it fails then that is fine with me because we gave our best shot without the crucible and maybe the next generation will find a better way but I will not become like the monster I've been fighting in order to win like shepard has always done in mass effect 1 and 2

Also just like anderson has said

Their is always another way!!

in other words your not fit to be in command of anything because you seem unable to make tough choices.

I'm not willing to become like the monsters that have been destroying the universe in order to save us I'm not willnig to take free will or the ability for everyones choice to matter wether organic or synthetic in order to beat the reapers

I'm not willing to become like the galactic monsters that have caused so much harm already and their way of thinking will only cause long term damage anyway

So you let everyone die.

Yes better to die free then to become like the reapers and the catalyst

Sometimes you have to fight evil with another kind of evil.

[Pitznik]

LiarasShield wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Yes better to die free then to become like the reapers and the catalyst

What gives you the right to decide this for the whole galaxy?

That is also why I chose refuse so that everyone can make their own choice wether they want to fight with shepard till the end use the 3 twisted crucible choices or leave it up to the next generation to find a way

They made a choice already. They believed the guy named Shepard to build the Crucible and they gave their ships and their lives to let him get the job done. Poor fools.

What kind of choice you gave them? To die? How is that a choice?

[LiarasShield]

I didn't want to bring religion into this but looks like I'll have to


So in order to beat satan we have to become like satan I'm sure in the bible it doesn't say anything like that

[ATiBotka]

eye basher wrote...

Sometimes you have to fight evil with another kind of evil.

None of the choices are "evil".

[3DandBeyond]

eye basher wrote...



Sometimes you have to fight evil with another kind of evil.

If you do that, evil always wins.  If both sides are evil, then only evil can win.

[3DandBeyond]

ATiBotka wrote...

eye basher wrote...

Sometimes you have to fight evil with another kind of evil.

None of the choices are "evil".

Well, that's debatable.  Evil is an act and not always a thought.

[Pitznik]

LiarasShield wrote...

I didn't want to bring religion into this but looks like I'll have to


So in order to beat satan we have to become like satan I'm sure in the bible it doesn't say anything like that

So you prefer Pontius Pilate's choice, then? Something evil is about to happen, I could stop it, but instead I will go wash my hands.

[memorysquid]

LiarasShield wrote...

Yes better to die free then to become like the reapers and the catalyst

Moral cowardice and irrational to boot.  Only one of the three choices makes you like the Reapers.

[memorysquid]

3DandBeyond wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

eye basher wrote...

Sometimes you have to fight evil with another kind of evil.

None of the choices are "evil".

Well, that's debatable.  Evil is an act and not always a thought.

Evil is the impractical.

[LiarasShield]

Pitznik wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

I didn't want to bring religion into this but looks like I'll have to


So in order to beat satan we have to become like satan I'm sure in the bible it doesn't say anything like that

So you prefer Pontius Pilate's choice, then? Something evil is about to happen, I could stop it, but instead I will go wash my hands.

What you are doing is just as evil as the reapers you're forcing a universal altering choice on organics or synthetics you're taking away their free will or for their choices to matter in order to beat them


You're basicly saying in order to beat satan we have to become like satan and that isn't in the bible and no soemtimes the ends do not justify the means


And no trying to use evil to beat evil isn't right

[LiarasShield]

Because it only generates more evil...

[ATiBotka]

Sometimes you have to make tough choices.

[3DandBeyond]

memorysquid wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

eye basher wrote...

Sometimes you have to fight evil with another kind of evil.

None of the choices are "evil".

Well, that's debatable.  Evil is an act and not always a thought.

Evil is the impractical.

The point is becoming like your enemies means you have already lost the fight.  If you give up willingly what you will let no one take by force, you have lost.

In all of the choices, you willingly give up a part of what defines being alive.  They are the 3 parts of being-I think that's what they are trying to say.  Spirit, body, soul.  If you are controlled by someone else, you lose your spirit.  If you have some physical augmentation, you lose your body.  If you are willing to throw someone else on the fire to save others that are deemed to be more important, you lose your soul.  I think these are the sacrifices that are made and not just by Shepard but by the unknowing galaxy.


One of the biggest and harshest things in any war is what we ask soldiers to do.  Not only do we ask them to die for us, but we ask them to kill for us. 

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 15 août 2012 - 03:07 .

[LiarasShield]

ATiBotka wrote...

Sometimes you have to make tough choices.

But these choices aren't right and trying to counter evil with more evil is wrong and once the freedom for everyone to choose hence refuse

[ATiBotka]

LiarasShield wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Sometimes you have to make tough choices.

But these choices aren't right and trying to counter evil with more evil is wrong and once the freedom for everyone to choose hence refuse

I am sure most of the galaxy would choose destroy.

Modifié par ATiBotka, 15 août 2012 - 03:09 .

[LiarasShield]

ATiBotka wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Sometimes you have to make tough choices.

But these choices aren't right and trying to counter evil with more evil is wrong and once the freedom for everyone to choose hence refuse

I am sure most of the galaxy would choose destroy.

Well I wouldn't force a unviersal altering choice without a consensus from my forces at the very least so it still is a no go


You all who picked the three choices will never understand why people chose refuse and vice vera are veiws believes and our ways our too diferrent for us to understand each other

[robertthebard]

LiarasShield wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

I didn't want to bring religion into this but looks like I'll have to


So in order to beat satan we have to become like satan I'm sure in the bible it doesn't say anything like that

So you prefer Pontius Pilate's choice, then? Something evil is about to happen, I could stop it, but instead I will go wash my hands.

What you are doing is just as evil as the reapers you're forcing a universal altering choice on organics or synthetics you're taking away their free will or for their choices to matter in order to beat them


You're basicly saying in order to beat satan we have to become like satan and that isn't in the bible and no soemtimes the ends do not justify the means


And no trying to use evil to beat evil isn't right

No, I'm not.  They chose to put me in charge.  They told me, sometimes specifically, to do what ever it takes to stop the Reapers.  Regardless of whether I wanted to be in charge or not, they dumped this burden on me, and told me to do whatever I had to do to stop them from killing everybody.  There is no moral high ground in taking on this trust and then violating it by choosing to do nothing.  You have betrayed them in the basest form imaginable.

I would not choose control, because forever is a long time, and I can't guarentee that would be able to resist the temptation of harvesting a culture that I didn't agree with.

I would not choose Synthesis because I don't believe I am morally capable of deciding that the best option is to make everybody the same.  Note that I'm not interested in going into all the specifics here, so just a summary of why not will have to suffice.

Refusal is doing nothing to aid the people that have trusted me to stop the threat.  This is me essentially telling them that they don't deserve to live, and is exactly the motivation my Self Righteous Paragon Shep would use for choosing Refusal.  The galaxy is too sick to save, and I listed my reasons for this earlier.

So, I'm left with Destroy.  This can kill the Geth, if they are still alive in the first place.  This comes down to two things; 1.  did I have enough foresight to lay the footwork for Quarian/Geth peace, and 2.  did I care if they survived on Rannoch or not.  If the answer to either of these is no, then peace is impossible anyway, and one or the other dies, and if forced to choose, I choose the organics.  This leaves EDI as the only synthetic life form that will die along with the Reapers, and guess what, she signed on knowing the risks.  This also applies if the Geth survive, and they did indeed go down fighting, even if the death blow is "friendly fire".  The ultimate goal is achieved, the Reapers are stopped, at any cost.  If I die choosing it, so be it, I'll be saving Garrus and everyone else that's promised to buy me drinks in the afterlife seats at the bar.  The difference is, I'll be sitting in whatever the ME version of Heaven is, instead of the ME version of Hell for allowing everyone to die on principle.

[LiarasShield]

Again I guess we are too different for a understanding to be met here

[Pitznik]

LiarasShield wrote...


What you are doing is just as evil as the reapers you're forcing a universal altering choice on organics or synthetics you're taking away their free will or for their choices to matter in order to beat them


You're basicly saying in order to beat satan we have to become like satan and that isn't in the bible and no soemtimes the ends do not justify the means


And no trying to use evil to beat evil isn't right

Isn't just as evil, it is less evil. Considerably less evil. There are no good choices, but there worse and better choices. Killing a person is less evil than killing 200 people. They made their choice - their choice was to build a Crucible and trust Shepard.

And yes, you do have to do something wrong to stop something more wrong. Is killing people right? No, but that is what soldiers or police has to do. Is taking freedom from people right? No, yet this is what prisons are for.

World isn't black and white. Neither real world, or ME world.

[robertthebard]

3DandBeyond wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

eye basher wrote...

Sometimes you have to fight evil with another kind of evil.

None of the choices are "evil".

Well, that's debatable.  Evil is an act and not always a thought.

Evil is the impractical.

The point is becoming like your enemies means you have already lost the fight.  If you give up willingly what you will let no one take by force, you have lost.

In all of the choices, you willingly give up a part of what defines being alive.  They are the 3 parts of being-I think that's what they are trying to say.  Spirit, body, soul.  If you are controlled by someone else, you lose your spirit.  If you have some physical augmentation, you lose your body.  If you are willing to throw someone else on the fire to save others that are deemed to be more important, you lose your soul.  I think these are the sacrifices that are made and not just by Shepard but by the unknowing galaxy.


One of the biggest and harshest things in any war is what we ask soldiers to do.  Not only do we ask them to die for us, but we ask them to kill for us. 

That is exactly right.  Willingly choosing Refusal, knowing the consequences, means that you have become your enemy.