925 réponses à ce sujet

[LiarasShield]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Yet during all these battles did I use huge space magic to alter all organics or synthetics throughout the galaxy I do not think so

You seem to be missing the forest for the trees. In all those instances, Shepard doesn't get to play the "I don't have a right to make this decision" card. You can't reject choosing at the Battle of the Citadel. You can't leave the Rachni Queen sitting in her cage, so on and so forth. Shepard has to grow a pair and make a call. 

Your decision to reject means everyone dies. If people don't like a post-synthesis galaxy, or the other two options, well, they're free to pick up a gun and make that decision. It doesn't mean everyone else should have to suffer through it.

Thats the beauty of free choice they don't have to suffer for it one of hackets ships could easily come fly by the crucible and drop someone off to make these altering choices and every being if they feel that it is right but for me it is not right I saved the queen I cured the genophage because I wouldn't let them go extinct in the fashion because of  assumption but I will not alter everyone and everything or sink to the catalyst or the reapers levels in order to beat them


Espically when my forces have never given me such permission to alter everything or everyone

[robertthebard]

LiarasShield wrote...

Not everyone would want the reapers to live or for shepard to merge they're dna together the galaxy and the council never gave shepard that permission despite the guise you say about defeating the reapers

And without getting permission from your forces and the galaxy you're trying to save you altering everything and everyone to try to save them what you're doing is wrong

You don't defeat evil with evil

Just like you don't become satan to beat satan has the bible or any religion for that matter taught you any of these things?

Not everyone would want to get killed by the Reapers to satisfy your morals either.  But those people don't count, right?  I'll be blunt, I"m good at it:  The only Geth that I cared about at all, when I could bring myself to care about the Geth, is already dead.  The only other Synthetic life form I could give two shakes about is EDI, and frankly, she's willing to die to preserve humanity.  She'll tell you as much.  So no, I'm not willing to commit the greater sin, and allow everyone to die just because I'm torn.  My own morals won't allow me to alter every single being in the galaxy, whether they are involved in the current conflict or not to end the war against the Reapers.  I don't trust myself enough to attempt to control them, because absolute power corrupts absolutely, so I'm killing the Reapers.

That said, I have a Self Righteous Paragon Shepard that may well, if I can get past the beam in London when I get there, choose to refuse.  I will do it, however, with no illusions about the greater good, or that it's the moral high ground.  I will do it because, if I get that far, this Shepard doesn't believe that the galaxy is worth saving.  I am under no illusions that it is the Politically Correct thing to do, but it is necessary to wipe out people that believe that the way to garner support is back room deals, Dalatras, to stab potential allies in the back.  I will do it because the solution to an over aggressive species was to commit genocide, Rachni, and then to neuter, Krogans, for aggressive expansion, with the addendum that Eve is correct, the Krogans did bring their reputation on themselves.  I am under no illusion that what I may well do isn't an evil act, I know it is.  I haven't spent my life deluding myself into believing that "turn the other cheek" will do anything but get me slapped there too, so I'm going to let them all die, and may do the evil villain laugh when I do it.  It is appropriate, since that's the only motivation I can find to do nothing to stop the Reapers when I have the chance.

[LiarasShield]

robertthebard wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Not everyone would want the reapers to live or for shepard to merge they're dna together the galaxy and the council never gave shepard that permission despite the guise you say about defeating the reapers

And without getting permission from your forces and the galaxy you're trying to save you altering everything and everyone to try to save them what you're doing is wrong

You don't defeat evil with evil

Just like you don't become satan to beat satan has the bible or any religion for that matter taught you any of these things?

Not everyone would want to get killed by the Reapers to satisfy your morals either.  But those people don't count, right?  I'll be blunt, I"m good at it:  The only Geth that I cared about at all, when I could bring myself to care about the Geth, is already dead.  The only other Synthetic life form I could give two shakes about is EDI, and frankly, she's willing to die to preserve humanity.  She'll tell you as much.  So no, I'm not willing to commit the greater sin, and allow everyone to die just because I'm torn.  My own morals won't allow me to alter every single being in the galaxy, whether they are involved in the current conflict or not to end the war against the Reapers.  I don't trust myself enough to attempt to control them, because absolute power corrupts absolutely, so I'm killing the Reapers.

That said, I have a Self Righteous Paragon Shepard that may well, if I can get past the beam in London when I get there, choose to refuse.  I will do it, however, with no illusions about the greater good, or that it's the moral high ground.  I will do it because, if I get that far, this Shepard doesn't believe that the galaxy is worth saving.  I am under no illusions that it is the Politically Correct thing to do, but it is necessary to wipe out people that believe that the way to garner support is back room deals, Dalatras, to stab potential allies in the back.  I will do it because the solution to an over aggressive species was to commit genocide, Rachni, and then to neuter, Krogans, for aggressive expansion, with the addendum that Eve is correct, the Krogans did bring their reputation on themselves.  I am under no illusion that what I may well do isn't an evil act, I know it is.  I haven't spent my life deluding myself into believing that "turn the other cheek" will do anything but get me slapped there too, so I'm going to let them all die, and may do the evil villain laugh when I do it.  It is appropriate, since that's the only motivation I can find to do nothing to stop the Reapers when I have the chance.

Ahh but thats the thing I do believe the galaxy is worth saving just not altering everything or everyone in order to do so nor would I commit genocide just to watch my enemies fall

Modifié par LiarasShield, 16 août 2012 - 12:32 .

[robertthebard]

LiarasShield wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Not everyone would want the reapers to live or for shepard to merge they're dna together the galaxy and the council never gave shepard that permission despite the guise you say about defeating the reapers

And without getting permission from your forces and the galaxy you're trying to save you altering everything and everyone to try to save them what you're doing is wrong

You don't defeat evil with evil

Just like you don't become satan to beat satan has the bible or any religion for that matter taught you any of these things?

Not everyone would want to get killed by the Reapers to satisfy your morals either.  But those people don't count, right?  I'll be blunt, I"m good at it:  The only Geth that I cared about at all, when I could bring myself to care about the Geth, is already dead.  The only other Synthetic life form I could give two shakes about is EDI, and frankly, she's willing to die to preserve humanity.  She'll tell you as much.  So no, I'm not willing to commit the greater sin, and allow everyone to die just because I'm torn.  My own morals won't allow me to alter every single being in the galaxy, whether they are involved in the current conflict or not to end the war against the Reapers.  I don't trust myself enough to attempt to control them, because absolute power corrupts absolutely, so I'm killing the Reapers.

That said, I have a Self Righteous Paragon Shepard that may well, if I can get past the beam in London when I get there, choose to refuse.  I will do it, however, with no illusions about the greater good, or that it's the moral high ground.  I will do it because, if I get that far, this Shepard doesn't believe that the galaxy is worth saving.  I am under no illusions that it is the Politically Correct thing to do, but it is necessary to wipe out people that believe that the way to garner support is back room deals, Dalatras, to stab potential allies in the back.  I will do it because the solution to an over aggressive species was to commit genocide, Rachni, and then to neuter, Krogans, for aggressive expansion, with the addendum that Eve is correct, the Krogans did bring their reputation on themselves.  I am under no illusion that what I may well do isn't an evil act, I know it is.  I haven't spent my life deluding myself into believing that "turn the other cheek" will do anything but get me slapped there too, so I'm going to let them all die, and may do the evil villain laugh when I do it.  It is appropriate, since that's the only motivation I can find to do nothing to stop the Reapers when I have the chance.

Ahh but thats the thing I do believe the galaxy is worth saving just not altering everything or everyone in order to do so nor would I commit genocide just to watch my enemies fall

Wait.  What?  The galaxy is worth saving, so you let everyone die.

[LiarasShield]

robertthebard wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Not everyone would want the reapers to live or for shepard to merge they're dna together the galaxy and the council never gave shepard that permission despite the guise you say about defeating the reapers

And without getting permission from your forces and the galaxy you're trying to save you altering everything and everyone to try to save them what you're doing is wrong

You don't defeat evil with evil

Just like you don't become satan to beat satan has the bible or any religion for that matter taught you any of these things?

Not everyone would want to get killed by the Reapers to satisfy your morals either.  But those people don't count, right?  I'll be blunt, I"m good at it:  The only Geth that I cared about at all, when I could bring myself to care about the Geth, is already dead.  The only other Synthetic life form I could give two shakes about is EDI, and frankly, she's willing to die to preserve humanity.  She'll tell you as much.  So no, I'm not willing to commit the greater sin, and allow everyone to die just because I'm torn.  My own morals won't allow me to alter every single being in the galaxy, whether they are involved in the current conflict or not to end the war against the Reapers.  I don't trust myself enough to attempt to control them, because absolute power corrupts absolutely, so I'm killing the Reapers.

That said, I have a Self Righteous Paragon Shepard that may well, if I can get past the beam in London when I get there, choose to refuse.  I will do it, however, with no illusions about the greater good, or that it's the moral high ground.  I will do it because, if I get that far, this Shepard doesn't believe that the galaxy is worth saving.  I am under no illusions that it is the Politically Correct thing to do, but it is necessary to wipe out people that believe that the way to garner support is back room deals, Dalatras, to stab potential allies in the back.  I will do it because the solution to an over aggressive species was to commit genocide, Rachni, and then to neuter, Krogans, for aggressive expansion, with the addendum that Eve is correct, the Krogans did bring their reputation on themselves.  I am under no illusion that what I may well do isn't an evil act, I know it is.  I haven't spent my life deluding myself into believing that "turn the other cheek" will do anything but get me slapped there too, so I'm going to let them all die, and may do the evil villain laugh when I do it.  It is appropriate, since that's the only motivation I can find to do nothing to stop the Reapers when I have the chance.

Ahh but thats the thing I do believe the galaxy is worth saving just not altering everything or everyone in order to do so nor would I commit genocide just to watch my enemies fall

Wait.  What?  The galaxy is worth saving, so you let everyone die.

You're not understanding which is fine I'm willing to let everyone make their own choice wether synthetic or organic to fight for our freedom if we fail yes I can indeed live with that because I didn't alter anyone I didn't destroy a entire race to beat the reapers I didn't fuse our dna and destroy our individuality I didn't control the reapers or the geth and possiably become a new threat by becoming new the catalyst

And what I fought for and inspired will encourgage the next generation after ours

[BaladasDemnevanni]

LiarasShield wrote...


Thats the beauty of free choice they don't have to suffer for it one of hackets ships could easily come fly by the crucible and drop someone off to make these altering choices and every being if they feel that it is right but for me it is not right I saved the queen I cured the genophage because I wouldn't let them go extinct in the fashion because of  assumption but I will not alter everyone and everything or sink to the catalyst or the reapers levels in order to beat them


Espically when my forces have never given me such permission to alter everything or everyone

Hmm, so you didn't mind making decisions which could potentially alter the galaxy? Sounds more like you're embracing contradiction. I don't recall your forces giving you permission to spare (or murder) the Rachni Queen, either.

[robertthebard]

LiarasShield wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Not everyone would want the reapers to live or for shepard to merge they're dna together the galaxy and the council never gave shepard that permission despite the guise you say about defeating the reapers

And without getting permission from your forces and the galaxy you're trying to save you altering everything and everyone to try to save them what you're doing is wrong

You don't defeat evil with evil

Just like you don't become satan to beat satan has the bible or any religion for that matter taught you any of these things?

Not everyone would want to get killed by the Reapers to satisfy your morals either.  But those people don't count, right?  I'll be blunt, I"m good at it:  The only Geth that I cared about at all, when I could bring myself to care about the Geth, is already dead.  The only other Synthetic life form I could give two shakes about is EDI, and frankly, she's willing to die to preserve humanity.  She'll tell you as much.  So no, I'm not willing to commit the greater sin, and allow everyone to die just because I'm torn.  My own morals won't allow me to alter every single being in the galaxy, whether they are involved in the current conflict or not to end the war against the Reapers.  I don't trust myself enough to attempt to control them, because absolute power corrupts absolutely, so I'm killing the Reapers.

That said, I have a Self Righteous Paragon Shepard that may well, if I can get past the beam in London when I get there, choose to refuse.  I will do it, however, with no illusions about the greater good, or that it's the moral high ground.  I will do it because, if I get that far, this Shepard doesn't believe that the galaxy is worth saving.  I am under no illusions that it is the Politically Correct thing to do, but it is necessary to wipe out people that believe that the way to garner support is back room deals, Dalatras, to stab potential allies in the back.  I will do it because the solution to an over aggressive species was to commit genocide, Rachni, and then to neuter, Krogans, for aggressive expansion, with the addendum that Eve is correct, the Krogans did bring their reputation on themselves.  I am under no illusion that what I may well do isn't an evil act, I know it is.  I haven't spent my life deluding myself into believing that "turn the other cheek" will do anything but get me slapped there too, so I'm going to let them all die, and may do the evil villain laugh when I do it.  It is appropriate, since that's the only motivation I can find to do nothing to stop the Reapers when I have the chance.

Ahh but thats the thing I do believe the galaxy is worth saving just not altering everything or everyone in order to do so nor would I commit genocide just to watch my enemies fall

Wait.  What?  The galaxy is worth saving, so you let everyone die.

You're not understanding which is fine I'm willing to let everyone make their own choice wether synthetic or organic to fight for our freedom if we fail yes I can indeed live with that because I didn't alter anyone I didn't destroy a entire race to beat the reapers I didn't fuse our dna and destroy our individuality I didn't control the reapers or the geth and possiably become a new threat by becoming new the catalyst

And what I fought for and inspired will encourgage the next generation after ours

Pssst....  Everybody's dead, there is no next generation.  The beings that rise up from our ashes won't be related to us at all.  They will have no idea of what transpired, or what you didn't do.  They will only know that we, like so many cycles before us, failed to beat the Reapers.

[LiarasShield]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...


Thats the beauty of free choice they don't have to suffer for it one of hackets ships could easily come fly by the crucible and drop someone off to make these altering choices and every being if they feel that it is right but for me it is not right I saved the queen I cured the genophage because I wouldn't let them go extinct in the fashion because of  assumption but I will not alter everyone and everything or sink to the catalyst or the reapers levels in order to beat them


Espically when my forces have never given me such permission to alter everything or everyone

Hmm, so you didn't mind making decisions which could potentially alter the galaxy? Sounds more like you're embracing contradiction. I don't recall your forces giving you permission to spare (or murder) the Rachni Queen, either.

Well I've always been paragon or allowed my moral compass to push in which way I do things saving the queen saving wrex and protecting the krogans from the genophage uniting the qurians and geth together

I've always wanted to save everybody but the end pushes my limit on how far I can go to try to save everyone altering every species or destroying their individuality or destroying the reapers by killing the geth no longer allows me to be paragon the way I have been through both me2 and most of me3

[LiarasShield]

robertthebard wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Not everyone would want the reapers to live or for shepard to merge they're dna together the galaxy and the council never gave shepard that permission despite the guise you say about defeating the reapers

And without getting permission from your forces and the galaxy you're trying to save you altering everything and everyone to try to save them what you're doing is wrong

You don't defeat evil with evil

Just like you don't become satan to beat satan has the bible or any religion for that matter taught you any of these things?

Not everyone would want to get killed by the Reapers to satisfy your morals either.  But those people don't count, right?  I'll be blunt, I"m good at it:  The only Geth that I cared about at all, when I could bring myself to care about the Geth, is already dead.  The only other Synthetic life form I could give two shakes about is EDI, and frankly, she's willing to die to preserve humanity.  She'll tell you as much.  So no, I'm not willing to commit the greater sin, and allow everyone to die just because I'm torn.  My own morals won't allow me to alter every single being in the galaxy, whether they are involved in the current conflict or not to end the war against the Reapers.  I don't trust myself enough to attempt to control them, because absolute power corrupts absolutely, so I'm killing the Reapers.

That said, I have a Self Righteous Paragon Shepard that may well, if I can get past the beam in London when I get there, choose to refuse.  I will do it, however, with no illusions about the greater good, or that it's the moral high ground.  I will do it because, if I get that far, this Shepard doesn't believe that the galaxy is worth saving.  I am under no illusions that it is the Politically Correct thing to do, but it is necessary to wipe out people that believe that the way to garner support is back room deals, Dalatras, to stab potential allies in the back.  I will do it because the solution to an over aggressive species was to commit genocide, Rachni, and then to neuter, Krogans, for aggressive expansion, with the addendum that Eve is correct, the Krogans did bring their reputation on themselves.  I am under no illusion that what I may well do isn't an evil act, I know it is.  I haven't spent my life deluding myself into believing that "turn the other cheek" will do anything but get me slapped there too, so I'm going to let them all die, and may do the evil villain laugh when I do it.  It is appropriate, since that's the only motivation I can find to do nothing to stop the Reapers when I have the chance.

Ahh but thats the thing I do believe the galaxy is worth saving just not altering everything or everyone in order to do so nor would I commit genocide just to watch my enemies fall

Wait.  What?  The galaxy is worth saving, so you let everyone die.

You're not understanding which is fine I'm willing to let everyone make their own choice wether synthetic or organic to fight for our freedom if we fail yes I can indeed live with that because I didn't alter anyone I didn't destroy a entire race to beat the reapers I didn't fuse our dna and destroy our individuality I didn't control the reapers or the geth and possiably become a new threat by becoming new the catalyst

And what I fought for and inspired will encourgage the next generation after ours

Pssst....  Everybody's dead, there is no next generation.  The beings that rise up from our ashes won't be related to us at all.  They will have no idea of what transpired, or what you didn't do.  They will only know that we, like so many cycles before us, failed to beat the Reapers.

The new stargazer still speaks about shepards heroics and that what we went through so that they wouldn't have to also liaras time capsule tells the next generation about what shepards done and fought for or did you even look at this ending at all before judging it?

No smart reply I was expecting or hopeing for one ?

Modifié par LiarasShield, 16 août 2012 - 12:54 .

[robertthebard]

LiarasShield wrote...


The new stargazer still speaks about shepards heroics and that what we went through so that they wouldn't have to also liaras time capsule tells the next generation about what shepards done and fought for or did you even look at this ending at all before judging it?

Yes I did.  It says that we fought a great war so that they wouldn't have to, but according to youtube, which I don't have a link for right now, Liara's time capsule says it didn't work, not that Shepard decided to let everyone die because they were a paragon of goodness.  There's a big difference there.

[LiarasShield]

robertthebard wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...


The new stargazer still speaks about shepards heroics and that what we went through so that they wouldn't have to also liaras time capsule tells the next generation about what shepards done and fought for or did you even look at this ending at all before judging it?

Yes I did.  It says that we fought a great war so that they wouldn't have to, but according to youtube, which I don't have a link for right now, Liara's time capsule says it didn't work, not that Shepard decided to let everyone die because they were a paragon of goodness.  There's a big difference there.

I'm not gonna alter everybody in order to save them it no longer allows me to be the hero that I've been the entire 2 games

[SilentCO1]

I'm wondering... Is it possible to have enough EMS to beat the Reapers through Refusal? Maybe you have to have every, or the most possible, assets and nobody bothered to try? Of course heavy losses would be had and your N7 Spec Ops team EMS would have to make up like several armies, but it'd be a better ending imo.

[Timusafa]

The refuse option is a statement: "I'm doing this my way and I'm going to win on my terms or not at all".

Unfortunately, we'd all like there to be a happy ending where we get to play it out the way we want it, on our terms, and on our own time. With the choices given, there has to be a choice made. It may seem like all of the choices are monstrous, but in the end there has to be a choice that takes the lesser of two evils (or three, or four in this case), you decide.

As a favored turian of Shepard's entourage once said, "We turians believe that if there is even one lone survivor, the battle was worth it"(or something to that effect).

You cut your losses and make the most of a crappy situation IMO.

Modifié par Timusafa, 16 août 2012 - 01:03 .

[SeptimusMagistos]

SilentCO1 wrote...

I'm wondering... Is it possible to have enough EMS to beat the Reapers through Refusal? Maybe you have to have every, or the most possible, assets and nobody bothered to try? Of course heavy losses would be had and your N7 Spec Ops team EMS would have to make up like several armies, but it'd be a better ending imo.

No. It is emphatically not.

[LiarasShield]

Some just won't alter everyone or kill the geth in order to destroy the reapers you can't understand my viewpoint though it is a paragon one that is fine

[Father_Jerusalem]

 A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes.

They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!”

But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor.

A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder.

A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?”



Picking Refuse is nothing more than ignoring everything that has been stated in game, everything that you have been building in game, everything you have been planning for in game, and then being upset that you can't beat the impossible because the "theme" is overcoming the impossible. 

Everything Shepard needs to make his/her decision is right there in the game, and he/she (and you, the player) know the stakes if you DON'T make the decision. 

You know the stakes. You ignore the stakes. That's not BioWare's fault, that's your fault.

Why would someone pick Refuse? Well, like they say in The Dark Knight: "Some men just want to watch the world burn."

Modifié par Father_Jerusalem, 16 août 2012 - 01:37 .

[LiarasShield]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

 A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes.

They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!”

But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor.

A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder.

A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?”



Picking Refuse is nothing more than ignoring everything that has been stated in game, everything that you have been building in game, everything you have been planning for in game, and then being upset that you can't beat the impossible because the "theme" is overcoming the impossible. 

Everything Shepard needs to make his/her decision is right there in the game, and he/she (and you, the player) know the stakes if you DON'T make the decision. 

You know the stakes. You ignore the stakes. That's not BioWare's fault, that's your fault.

Why would someone pick Refuse? Well, like they say in The Dark Knight: "Some men just want to watch the world burn."

and some women and men want to keep individuality and the freedom for all

Modifié par LiarasShield, 16 août 2012 - 01:39 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

LiarasShield wrote...

Well I've always been paragon or allowed my moral compass to push in which way I do things saving the queen saving wrex and protecting the krogans from the genophage uniting the qurians and geth together.

Not particularly relevant in this context. Your argument above related to whether you had the right to make decisions which can affect the galaxy. Obviously you, or rather Shepard, does, since you've demonstrated this multiple times. Someone who didn't think he had the right to alter the galaxy wouldn't have freed the Rachni Queen. S/he would have left her in her cage. Someone who didn't believe in altering the galaxy wouldn't have cured or sabotaged the Krogan. Likewise with the Collector Base: you would have handed the keys over to Miranda. And with the Battle of the Citadel.

All your solution in rejection means everyone dies. And if that's going to happen anyway, there's no harm in actually saving them via one of the three Crucible options. Anyone who hates the post-Reaper galaxy still has the option of ending their own life. But at least the ones who value living don't have to suffer the horror of seeing everything they know and love destroyed. In essence: your solution maximizes suffering and gets nothing done. No Shepard who could make it to Mass Effect 3 could have done so under the proviso of "No galaxy-wide decisions", since the trilogy is itself composed of galaxy-wide decisions.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 16 août 2012 - 01:51 .

[LiarasShield]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Well I've always been paragon or allowed my moral compass to push in which way I do things saving the queen saving wrex and protecting the krogans from the genophage uniting the qurians and geth together.

Not particularly relevant in this context. Your argument above related to whether you had the right to make decisions which can affect the galaxy. Obviously you do, since you've demonstrated this multiple times. Someone who didn't think he had the right to alter the galaxy wouldn't have freed the Rachni Queen. S/he would have left her in her cage. Someone who didn't believe in altering the galaxy wouldn't have cured or sabotaged the Krogan. Likewise with the Collector Base: you would have handed the keys over to Miranda. And with the Battle of the Citadel.

All your solution in rejection means everyone dies. And if that's going to happen anyway, there's no harm in actually saving them via one of the three Crucible options. Anyone who hates the post-Reaper galaxy still has the option of ending their own life. But at least the ones who value living don't have to suffer the horror of seeing everything they know and love destroyed. In essence: your solution maximizes suffering and gets nothing done. No Shepard who could make it to Mass Effect 3 could have done so under the proviso of "No galaxy-wide decisions", since the trilogy is itself composed of galaxy-wide decisions.

I couldn't choose any of the three choices because they would not allow me to continue being the paragon hero the woman who always fought for justice and the right thing to continue to be so all the choices plus minus refuse in my own way all seem like renegade choices or choices that go against what I've done as being a hero I can't alter or destroy my forces choices in the ending the ending no longer allows me to be a hero and Makes me try to cross a line I can't cross

[AlanC9]

LiarasShield wrote...
I couldn't choose any of the three choices because they would not allow me to continue being the paragon hero

Yep. You'll sacrifice trillions of lives for the sake of your self-image.

[Timusafa]

I would say that a lesson here is that there are some things that just can't be done. You just can't beat the reapers by conventional warfare, guerrilla warfare, or anything of that sort. The hand of cards you were dealt is what you gotta use, and again you're choosing the lesser of four evils.

I suppose you could control the reapers and then send them into the black hole that supposedly lies at the center of the galaxy.

AlanC9 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...
I couldn't choose any of the three choices because they would not allow me to continue being the paragon hero

Yep. You'll sacrifice trillions of lives for the sake of your self-image.

Not the hero Earth wants, but the hero that it probably deserves...

Modifié par Timusafa, 16 août 2012 - 02:03 .

[LiarasShield]

AlanC9 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...
I couldn't choose any of the three choices because they would not allow me to continue being the paragon hero

Yep. You'll sacrifice trillions of lives for the sake of your self-image.

Yes I'm willing to sacrifice trillions of lives on what I believe is right but freedom and individuality in my heart and soul are right and in every ending their is a sacrifice

Control you sacrifice your body and soul just to control the very enemies that caused the destruction of the galaxy the races will not be happy with you that and ai corruption in the future which may make you cause more damage in the future then shepard could ever do in refuse or destroy

Synthesis merging of dna making everybody the same

Destroying the geth through genocide in order to kill the reapers if me and my forces die then we will die free and working together I'm not gonna kill my own troops or soldiers just to kill the reapers

[Dean Demon]

I wanted the option to kill the catalyst,i say this because the little twerp that resembles a child is so arrogant and has no understanding about anything in the universe and then stands there making demands and lies through his / it's teeth about everything,anyone who controls the reapers and wants you to go along with the solution has to be an insane mainiac and not worth understanding anyway,the catalyst is a reaper of sorts and can't be trusted so i just wanted to be done with it and shoot the hell out of this self obsessed loon of a child and face the future with whatever comes of it.

[Timusafa]

LiarasShield wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...
I couldn't choose any of the three choices because they would not allow me to continue being the paragon hero

Yep. You'll sacrifice trillions of lives for the sake of your self-image.

Yes I'm willing to sacrifice trillions of lives on what I believe is right but freedom and individuality in my heart and soul are right and in every ending their is a sacrifice

Control you sacrifice your body and soul just to control the very enemies that caused the destruction of the galaxy the races will not be happy with you that and ai corruption in the future which may make you cause more damage in the future then shepard could ever do in refuse or destroy

Synthesis merging of dna making everybody the same

Destroying the geth through genocide in order to kill the reapers if me and my forces die then we will die free and working together I'm not gonna kill my own troops or soldiers just to kill the reapers

As soldiers (and Hero/heroines) we are called to make those tough decisions so that other people don't have to, in order to preserve our civilization/society.

"Men sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf" - George Orwell.  

I'd gladly make that tough decision knowing that I'm possibly putting my honor on the line because that's the decision I'm capable of.  Shep makes the tough choices and doesn't com out unscathed so that other people don't have to.

[Father_Jerusalem]

LiarasShield wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

 A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes.

They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!”

But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor.

A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder.

A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?”



Picking Refuse is nothing more than ignoring everything that has been stated in game, everything that you have been building in game, everything you have been planning for in game, and then being upset that you can't beat the impossible because the "theme" is overcoming the impossible. 

Everything Shepard needs to make his/her decision is right there in the game, and he/she (and you, the player) know the stakes if you DON'T make the decision. 

You know the stakes. You ignore the stakes. That's not BioWare's fault, that's your fault.

Why would someone pick Refuse? Well, like they say in The Dark Knight: "Some men just want to watch the world burn."

and some women and men want to keep individuality and the freedom for all

By condemning everyone to a horrific, horrific death. Or life as Reaper goo.

If that's your version of "individuality and freedom", then I don't even...