432 réponses à ce sujet

[vivanto]

Archonsg wrote...
 The difference is, there is a possibility for Bioware to put in Proteans all other arguments are based on assumptions.

And your point is less of an assumption because?

Archonsg wrote...

To be fair, the "existence" of more live Proteans are also based on assumptions. But you have to ask yourself, what would Bioware do, which Race would can be introduced now to make combat more interesting for ME3MP in regards to new classes, powers and weapons that already have a precedent in the ME world.

Logically, the Proteans come to mind.
Would Bioware cash in on this is the REAL question.

I stated in a similar thread, I don't think adding protheans at this point would be interesting or anything the like. When they showed they can create exciting new classes like the N7s, Turian Havoc/Ghost, adding a puny prothean would be just cheap and boring.

Edit: To the which-race to add part, now that they broke the ice with the volus, I could imagine a hanar adept, in fact, that would've made a lot more sense than the volus, the little guys should stick to engineering. There's talk of female turian in the omega DLC, so they have the concept and the model to include that as a playable class, they could also create a new version of the Quarians that could efficiently sideroll with some heavy armour aking to the turian->turian havoc conversion.

There's still many possibilities, chanting prothean is just living inside a box.

Modifié par vivanto, 03 novembre 2012 - 09:44 .

[oO Stryfe Oo]

corporal doody wrote...

Reawyn wrote...

Just to point out , long dead reace ? remergance ?  HELLO  COLLECTORS  , thought they were supposed ot have been destoryed with the collector base yet here they are , in the flesh.

long dead? 50k years and the reapers place them all in one spot?

Thank you. I don't know why people honestly think the Collectors were exterminated in ME2. It took the Reapers centuries to harvest the Billions of Protheans that make up their Collector legion. The same legion that we are told they have the ability to clone in ME2. The same legion they've had for 50,000 years. The Reapers aren't stupid. They'd build more than one base. That Collector base Shepard blew up? Think of it as an outpost. The Reapers inhabit Dark Space, so it is all too plausible that they'd keep the main force of their Collectors there.

I don't know why people belileve that Shepard did to the Collectors with one bomb what the Reapers did to the (billions of) Protheans over centuries. That wasn't genocide. Not even close.

vivanto wrote...

To the which-race to add part, now that they broke the ice with the volus, I could imagine a hanar adept, in fact, that would've made a lot more sense than the volus, the little guys should stick to engineering. There's talk of female turian in the omega DLC, so they have the concept and the model to include that as a playable class, they could also create a new version of the Quarians that could efficiently sideroll with some heavy armour aking to the turian->turian havoc conversion.

There's still many possibilities, chanting prothean is just living inside a box.

Yeah, I don't know about hanar. They've already publicly stated that Hanar, Elcor, and Yagh aren't happening. I agree with your other points, though. They don't need Protheans to make interesting classes. I'm sure we'll see a female Turian in MP, along with more Salarians and UR characters. Those are almost guaranteed to happen.

Modifié par oO Stryfe Oo, 03 novembre 2012 - 09:58 .

[xDawnfangX]

Reawyn wrote...

xDawnfangX wrote...

Much as i love the mp i don't want to see protheans in it. While i do agree that most of these ideas are possible (and in my opinion make more sense than the anti-prothean arguments), i can't help but feel... wrong at the idea.
And to everyone that uses the "mp already destroys lore" argument, the mp being integral with sp was one of biowares selling points on it pre-release. While fighting geth in london with another geth seems unlikely to say the least, it seems a lot more likely than the resurrection/ emergence of a long dead race. BUT while im on that, i find the cloning to be completely possible.
One thing everyone in here seems to forget is the entire mass effect universe is composed of a LOAD
of pseudoscience. Cloning straight into adulthood has been an idea as long as space travel, and dont forget Okeers experiments, while vastly unsuccessful, they did yield results. And i dont recall seeing any krogan children running around there.
All in all i guess i dont really side with either side....

Just to point out , long dead reace ? remergance ?  HELLO  COLLECTORS  , thought they were supposed ot have been destoryed with the collector base yet here they are , in the flesh.

Theres sort of an explaination for them in the books.

[Jay Leon Hart]

[Edit] Damn necro posts... [/Edit]

Modifié par Jay Leon Hart, 03 novembre 2012 - 10:09 .

[DJ Airsurfer]

I don't really care for cloned Protheans, I'd rather see a few Protheans found in stasis, you only need four after all.

[vivanto]

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...
Yeah, I don't know about hanar. They've already publicly stated that Hanar, Elcor, and Yagh aren't happening. I agree with your other points, though. They don't need Protheans to make interesting classes. I'm sure we'll see a female Turian in MP, along with more Salarians and UR characters. Those are almost guaranteed to happen.

Elcor would be admittedly impractical, while Yagh is debatable lore-wise. I don't recall ever seeing a hanar in motion (apart from fanmade videos), so not sure if they would be practical in combat, but if they stated it's not happening, oh well.

Now that you mention, Salarian STG specialist with unique armor and powers, they could have the funny-looking toad-helmet. 

[zRz Tyr]

Screw that! Playable collectors ftw!

[oO Stryfe Oo]

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

I don't really care for cloned Protheans, I'd rather see a few Protheans found in stasis, you only need four after all.

Um...no. You'd need more than four. If there were only four, they'd be in the same boat as important characters in SP. I think I explained it in another thread, but you'd need a large number. The characters we use in MP are unimportant individually and are all part of a much larger group, whose numbers aren't exactly known. There's a reason for that.

[Father Superior]

corporal doody wrote...

NEVAH!! no to protheans.

You are a true detriment to the human race. I have never seen you make a single post that was not riddled with spelling errors and kindergarten-level logic fails. If you want anyone to ever take you seriously (which is incredibly unlikely to happen, judging by your severe misunderstanding of basic logic, reasoning and grammar skills), you should post something more substantial than "I DON'T WANT IT SO IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!1!1!!1!!!".

corporal doody wrote...
Huge difference here....

last i checked...volus werent extinct.


and tbh..no one thought anything of the volus in ME3MP until news was released that Volus would be included. there was some uproar....but in comparison to alot of the other stuff people ****** & moan about here on the BSN...IT WAS TAME!

You are so thickheaded that I am genuinely concerned about the human race. Literally every flawed argument from ignorance that you have presented against Protheans, including this one has been addressed and debunked. You have no idea what you're talking about, yet you remain persistent in making yourself heard. 

Volus were portrayed as completely combat inept for the entire trilogy. Their codex entry stated that they weren't suited for a bar scuffle, so to put them into spec ops teams was completely counter-intuitive to what the fans had been told for years. Suddenly making them able to participate in military level combat was worthy of an outcry (one that was not as large as it should have been, due in part to the BSN being composed of at least 80-90% apologists, fanboys, battered-wife syndrome afflicted, and individuals lacking the ability to think critically).

Protheans are known to be combat ready, or at least able to fair well in combat when taught the proper skills (which is not hard to due with an instantaneous information transmitting/receiving ability). The fact that they are supposedly extinct has no bearing, because Javik has proved that stasis pods can survive and there is no reason to believe that cloning is incapable of producing Protheans. Cloning could take an extensive amount of time (or not, Bioware's choice), but I've already addressed how that is irrelevant in this thread.

The reason that there was no fierce opposition to the Volus before they were announced officially was due to the fact that they were a JOKE. Only the most absurd and illogical people actually believed that Volus would make an appearance in the MP, the rational people recognized how ridiculous the idea was. The reason that the uproar occurred was due to people being infuriated that their intelligence was being mocked with the inclusion of the Volus; everything we were taught about the Volus showed us how puny they were (the "Biotic God" is a prime example). Nothing about the Volus led us to believe that they belonged on the battlefield, yet they ended up there anyway. Protheans have been shown to be plausible in the current context of the ME universe and are clearly capable of being fierce biotic warriors. They would not receive nearly as much uproar if Bioware includes an explanation via DLC, because we have seen that they can fend for themselves. Also, Protheans could be paired with new STG operatives, satisfying the other fan desire for more Salarians.

[Father Superior]

vivanto wrote...

Archonsg wrote...
 The difference is, there is a possibility for Bioware to put in Proteans all other arguments are based on assumptions.

And your point is less of an assumption because?

Archonsg wrote...

To be fair, the "existence" of more live Proteans are also based on assumptions. But you have to ask yourself, what would Bioware do, which Race would can be introduced now to make combat more interesting for ME3MP in regards to new classes, powers and weapons that already have a precedent in the ME world.

Logically, the Proteans come to mind.
Would Bioware cash in on this is the REAL question.

I stated in a similar thread, I don't think adding protheans at this point would be interesting or anything the like. When they showed they can create exciting new classes like the N7s, Turian Havoc/Ghost, adding a puny prothean would be just cheap and boring.

Edit: To the which-race to add part, now that they broke the ice with the volus, I could imagine a hanar adept, in fact, that would've made a lot more sense than the volus, the little guys should stick to engineering. There's talk of female turian in the omega DLC, so they have the concept and the model to include that as a playable class, they could also create a new version of the Quarians that could efficiently sideroll with some heavy armour aking to the turian->turian havoc conversion.

There's still many possibilities, chanting prothean is just living inside a box.

You don't seem to realize that this isn't assumption, it is theory based on the evidence placed in front of us. We see the possibilities, you assert that Protheans are all gone. You are the one making the assumption; data leads us to believe that Protheans could still exist in the galaxy and they could be cloned, you are assuming that they're all gone based on false interpretation of data and unreliable sources. This "debate" is akin to the Theist vs. Atheist "debate"; we are acknowledging a possibility and not accepting a premise without basis in solid evidence, you are making the claim that the possibility does not exist. The burden of proof is upon you; prove using solid evidence and cold hard facts that Protheans are gone without any chance of coming back. If you can conclusively prove that Protheans are incapable of making a return, then you will be named the victor.

What exactly qualifies you to tell anyone what is or is not cheap or boring? This is not something that you have control over, as it is a subjective standpoint that varies from person to person. In addition to not being able to dictate someone's opinion to them and how would you even begin to do so in regards to a topic that has not had proper expansion? There are practically no limits to what Protheans could do in MP, who are you to say that there would not be a means of keeping them fresh and entertaining? Protheans could have abilities that add new dimensions to the MP, like the Fury/Slayer's dodge did or the Volus's light melee did. They could utilize their sensory ability as a power or a racial passive that gives them low-grade detection abilities, they could completely revolutionize biotics with unique new powers and synergy, they could provide a slew of new weapons and mods that could provide more diverse combat styles. There is no limit to what Protheans could potentially be, so you're being irrational when you insist that they'll be boring.

Hanar, Elcor and Yahg have all been denied as potential additions by Bioware, so unfortunately that's (apparently) not going to happen. As for the idea of Turian females, you have trapped yourself into a delicate conundrum: what exactly gives you the notion that a different gender of an existing race would be capable of being a more diverse addition than an entirely new race that does not yet have a long list of restrictions on them that is present for the already existing race? I'm not opposed to Turian females, but there is absolutely nothing to suggest that a character will be wildly different from other characters of their race for the sole reason that they don't have a Johnson. To imply that this character would automatically be more diverse than an entirely new race is completely idiotic and an argument founded in ignorance.

[4ut0b4hn5child27]

Iie

[Father Superior]

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

Reawyn wrote...

Just to point out , long dead reace ? remergance ?  HELLO  COLLECTORS  , thought they were supposed ot have been destoryed with the collector base yet here they are , in the flesh.

long dead? 50k years and the reapers place them all in one spot?

Thank you. I don't know why people honestly think the Collectors were exterminated in ME2. It took the Reapers centuries to harvest the Billions of Protheans that make up their Collector legion. The same legion that we are told they have the ability to clone in ME2. The same legion they've had for 50,000 years. The Reapers aren't stupid. They'd build more than one base. That Collector base Shepard blew up? Think of it as an outpost. The Reapers inhabit Dark Space, so it is all too plausible that they'd keep the main force of their Collectors there.

I don't know why people belileve that Shepard did to the Collectors with one bomb what the Reapers did to the (billions of) Protheans over centuries. That wasn't genocide. Not even close.

The underlined part is a faulty claim. The Reapers aren't necessarily stupid, but that does not mean that you should imply that they're smart. Would a smart race be so weak to hubris that they neglect to exterminate all inhabitants of a stasis facility, knowing that a survivor could potentially ruin their entire plan and bring about their downfall? Would a smart race allow for ruins and artifacts that tell of their existence to remain in the galaxy, knowing that a large part of their advantage comes from the element of surprise? Would a smart race be oblivious to the blueprints for a doomsday machine that could end their reign as overlords of space that had been developed over the course of (potentially) millions/billions of years? The Reapers are far from the omniscient super-beings that they're regarded as and their decline since ME1 should make it a clear fact.

[oO Stryfe Oo]

I said smart, not omniscient. There are things they probably don't know about, like the Crucible plans and Javik's survival. If they really knew everything, there wouldn't have been a trilogy. I'm just saying that over 50,000 years, they're definitely smart enough to keep some of their Collector forces in Dark Space. Or at least build more than one base.

[Ultimas Dragon]

Ok, I'm sorry but no. NO to cloning, especially Javik. why? because Javik was picked up in the middle of when MP is going on and with Shepard the entire time, not to mention the time it would take to actually clone him AND for the clone/s to grow, mature and be trained.
Bottom line cloning is a far stretch of the imagination. I read all of the cloning augments of the OP and the logic is so very very flawed, sorry it just is the time frame is just to small and...THERE ARE REAPERS ATTACKING EVERY THING!

Now finding a 'stash' of working stasis pods is viable and I would agree to it. How ever I can not see Alliance brass wanting to throw recently found and woken up prothians back into the frey just to be likely killed. They would be better used as consults on strategies to combat the reapers because they have 1st hand combat experience against them.

And if those prothians choose to fight on the front lines they would be rare, rarer then volus. Basically a promo char. version of the N7 weapons.

I'm not saying that having prothians in MP wouldn't be awesome, cause it would but no matter how you argue it it's illogical and against lore...period.

Modifié par Ultimas Dragon, 09 novembre 2012 - 02:08 .

[RasenRebirth]

I doubt all protheans are gone there empire was spread more than ours and more advanced. They lost contact with eachother. So Javik wouldn't know about other Prothean going into cryo. The reapers arent perfect killers they falled killing off the Leviathans. The thorians survived and the Rachni. As much as I know about the Mass Effect lore and the reaper and Protheans I find it more odd that we haven't found more Protheans in cryo. I wouldnt put it past the Hanar on Kahje where hinding some in cryo and not waking them or telling anyone because of the religion around them.

[Father Superior]

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

I said smart, not omniscient. There are things they probably don't know about, like the Crucible plans and Javik's survival. If they really knew everything, there wouldn't have been a trilogy. I'm just saying that over 50,000 years, they're definitely smart enough to keep some of their Collector forces in Dark Space. Or at least build more than one base.

My point was that the Reapers are greatly overrated. They failed to exterminate the Protheans entirely, they failed to remove any and all traces of their existence and the existence of past races, they failed to discover a plan for a device that would destroy them and they failed to prevent mere humans from learning how to control their forces (to a degree). If the Reapers are incompetent in all of these ways, what reason do you have to believe that they were uncharacteristically thorough with their Prothean cycle genocide? I'm not arguing that the Collectors only had that single base, I'm arguing that there isn't any reason to believe that the Reapers wiped out every single last Prothean in existence, as Javik is one of many clear examples that they failed to achieve their goal.

[Father Superior]

Ultimas Dragon wrote...

Ok, I'm sorry but no. NO to cloning, especially Javik. why? because Javik was picked up in the middle of when MP is going on and with Shepard the entire time, not to mention the time it would take to actually clone him AND for the clone/s to grow, mature and be trained.
Bottom line cloning is a far stretch of the imagination. I read all of the cloning augments of the OP and the logic is so very very flawed, sorry it just is the time frame is just to small and...THERE ARE REAPERS ATTACKING EVERY THING!

Now finding a 'stash' of working stasis pods is viable and I would agree to it. How ever I can not see Alliance brass wanting to throw recently found and woken up prothians back into the frey just to be likely killed. They would be better used as consults on strategies to combat the reapers because they have 1st hand combat experience against them.

And if those prothians choose to fight on the front lines they would be rare, rarer then volus. Basically a promo char. version of the N7 weapons.

I'm not saying that having prothians in MP wouldn't be awesome, cause it would but no matter how you argue it it's illogical and against lore...period.

Did you even read the thread? Literally every complaint you have is addressed.

Javik is not a necessity for Prothean clones, he would just play a possible role in cloning (fresh DNA containing the last key to the previously started cloning project) or recovering Protheans from stasis (he could be familiar with the technology, use a DNA/fingerprint/voice sample to manually release the remaining stasis pods, etc.). The Reapers attacking is irrelevant, as the Salarian merchant is a prime example of the fact that progress is not halted in war time, no matter the scale. 

Protheans could be trained to fight instantly and their time fighting the Reapers could provide tactical information that could be crucial to the war effort. Their battle expertise would make them prime candidates for the battlefield and they wouldn't need to be condemned to stay out of combat. If you insist that Protheans would be stuck doing training sessions for their tactics instead of utilizing the tactics themselves, Volus should have simply given the N7 squads their Shield Boosters and personal Tactical Cloaks. Having an expert on certain tactics not perform those tactics themselves, especially during a war of this size with such a desperate need for soldiers is utter insanity. Also, If rarity was a problem for N7 volunteers, Battlemasters and Justicars would be rejected immediately. 

You are utterly wrong about Protheans breaking lore. Lore changes and adapts as new information is received. If Protheans are reintoduced in a logical and plausible way, which this thread has demonstrated they can be, then it is not violating lore, nor is it illogical.

[Oxtoby13]

Go protheans

[Artemillion]

Secret bunker lost in the galaxy. - Yes, why not?

[Slayer299]

While I have no argument about a Prothean for MP, does SP lore "really" matter at this point?? BW's going to run with new ideas to try and keep people from getting bored/burnt out with the "old" ones and that means getting ultra-creative to do so.

[Sparbiter]

Both of those options are cop outs, and I wouldn't be interested at all in having them in my game.

Javik himself is a cop out, in my opinion. They're extinct; meant to stay that way.

[VaultingFrog]

First off there are some issues...

1: I highly doubt Javik would allow himself to be cloned. In all likelyhood he would consider the clones to be an abomination and want to destroy them himself. More to the point, the cloned units would not have the training needed in order to be successful in combat. ME3 takes place over a relatively short period of time (months I think). Even if they flash clone Javik to create adult subjects they do not have the experience or skills needed to survive. They arent "born" or "birthed" with those skills. They are learned skills.

Have you also considered that because of their quad strand DNA that they might not be clonable with the galaxies current technology? All current species have a single double helix to their DNA. Different evolutionary paths than the Protheans I would suppose. That could instantly rule out their being able to be cloned. Otherwise why not take the Prothean DNA that they found at other sites and cloned that way earlier?

2: For finding a group of Protheans I see a few problems. First while it is possible there are some still around the galaxy the current colonization of the galaxy doesnt span the width of the Prothean Empire. It is significantly smaller than that empire. As such the planets the Protheans may or may not be on are probably undiscovered and or behind a dormant Mass Relay. With a galactic war going on I doubt there is much time for exploration of new planets.

Secondly, the Protheans are more than likely non existant because of their technological limitations. Remember Ilos? Those pods were nearly out of power after 300 years and there were thousands of them. The AI there saved what power it could to keep about a dozen alive for that long. Power sources dont last for ever. On Eden Prime there were supposed to be a million Protheans in stasis. Of those only a third ever made it there safely. Of those 300,000 pods only one made it the entire 50,000 years because the AI there again transfered power to the pods that needed to survive. Whats better is that on Eden Prime the pods were damaged so they wouldnt awaken when they were designed to. That awakening should have happend right after the Reapers left (IE 300 some years total) so they could rebuild and use the surviving species as troops.

But that awakening never happend. The damaged systems kept him in stasis for 50,000 years. And if Cerberus had not found him he would in all likelyhood have died anyways due to pod failure.

Anyways back to what I was saying. Since their technological limitations would have put a finite time on their stasis abilities they would have awoken a long time before hand. If thats the case then where are they now? Odds are they would have awoken in such small numbers that they couldnt sustain their species any longer. And that the Collectors stayed and hunted them down.

So is it possible there are more? Yes. Is it a reasonable idea to bring them into the story? No, not with current knowledge on galactic history.

[Miclotov]

Not this again.

[mrcanada]

I've written in other threads why it will happen and should, so I'll just wade in and say yes to Protheans and a middle finger to the babies and lore cryers. Lore has little place in MP where paragraph explanations are used to insert things. We have Volus and Collectors which were made believable very easily and you would accept Protheans just as easily.

oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/write.ign.com/51773/2012/11/Javik-Deal-With-It-GIF.gif

[RasenRebirth]

I still want Protheans but need a single player DLC first