Lore has already been broken in mp. The Geth and Asari Justicars break enough lore. I think adding Protheans wouldn't do any more harm.
Pro-Prothean arguments. Protheans for MP! And best of all? LORE FRIENDLY!!! See how in this thread...
Débuté par
xSNPx ZoDiaC
, août 14 2012 07:03
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#153
Posté 17 août 2012 - 04:53
xSNPx ZoDiaC
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Adding Protheans does not have to break lore. These arguments prove that.
#154
Posté 17 août 2012 - 04:54
Frosty10001
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I'll do anything for green biotics.
#155
Posté 17 août 2012 - 05:00
Teratoid
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xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...
Adding Protheans does not have to break lore. These arguments prove that.
What most of these arguments "prove" is that to justify the sudden appearance of thousands upon thousands of Protheans, you'd need some sort of deus ex machina. Which invariably involve some sort of incredible oversight on part of the Reapers in somehow forgetting to search certain locations. Or cloning the last living Prothean to make a horde that would basically be no different from what Saren attempted with the Krogan. And most of these arguments fail to specify exactly what the point of cloning Protheans would be anyway, when you could just clone more Krogan or Turian and so on.
Also, Protheans lost the previous war because of their inability to adapt. Yeah, that's what you need on your side.
Modifié par Teratoid, 17 août 2012 - 05:00 .
#156
Posté 17 août 2012 - 05:23
Father Superior
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GroverA125 wrote...
And now I will raise points against yours:
1) Cloning Protheans would be a considerably pointless exercise, it would take vast amounts of time to get a "perfect" Prothean out of it, and it is likely that after the cloning process, there'll be better concerns on their mind (e.g. "We need to repopulate as a race and find a home!"). Use of Javik and other protheans learning through contact isn't a viable point for training them either. If you give a human a tail, they won't be able to effectively control it for years, maybe even decades. Meaning you'd either have to wait it out for them to be able to control that ability, or do it the old fashioned way, both of which take time, and would likely not be finished for the end of the reaper war.
2) Finding a secret bunker with a hundred protheans is in no way plausible and Justifiable. Were all of these protheans to be in perfect health, they would have popped out of their pods right after the reapers left, warned the galaxy, created a major prescence in the galaxy and created effective weapons to use against them. They wouldn't choose to exit them at the immediate end of a cycle, where their knowledge means nothing. Also, nobody's going to be searching for them. I cannot think of one scenario in which you would tell a research team to "go out into the galaxy and sweep every single planet for even the possibility of a Prothean base, while your home planet burns to ashes and you could all be developing the Crucible". It would be a complete waste of time, and likely never happen. If no-one managed to find them within the space that the reapers were gone, then they really aren't going to find anything in a few months.
3) Nobody would have the time to clone Protheans. Every able-bodied researcher is working on getting the crucible up and running, not running around finding milennia-extinct things to clone. Plus, you have to go through Javik, the only Prothean alive and capable of being cloned, who seems very much reluctant to get his race up and running, considering his thoughts on what he will do when the war ends, I don't think he wants to be cloned.
So finding a bunker is out of the question, and Javik doesn't want to be cloned, nor would anyone likely try to find him with a war going on and reapers zipping around the galaxy. Plus cloning them would require training and teaching them to use their powers, which would take a long time and may never pay off. Much easier to clone little dinosaurs for the Krogan to ride on.
GroverA125 wrote...
Thanks for reminding me: Next problem with it is the fact of sustained power. These bunkers were meant to keep them in for a couple hundred years, while the reapers buggered off, not milennia after that. They had to have a limited power supply as to keep them off the radar and prevent the Reapers simply finding them and blowing their plan into multiple pieces, as such, they would have to sacrifice power to keep them alive, and I assure, you, 100 protheans would not come out of it, look at Ilos, which was running a simple VI and several hundred researchers. Also, the AI would have pulled them out AFTER the reapers left, not when they're coming back, were it to fail, then it would be clear that the reapers would have been there to make it fail, meaning that they would likely pick up on any presence there and simply move in and finish the job they started. Also, convenient that Cerberus would find TWO bunkers, both with live protheans in them, in a "needle in a haystack" situation with a million planets to look on with a million different places on each planet to look on. I doubt they'd get a streak going, nor would they need a streak, they don't need Protheans for their plan on stopping the reapers, to them it was a side objective to do along the way.
PS: If you're going to counter someone's counter-argument, make sure to both use punctuation and do so in a proper fashion. Not only is your point look like it's written by a three-year old just learning to use a keyboard, but also egging someone on to keep going in a fully-defensive argument is also a bad idea. There's a million ways your points could not happen, and only a few in which it would.
GroverA125 wrote...
I'd also like to point out that it doesn't matter if you raise a bloody argument for protheans, since you aren't developing the content. If Bioware does it, then they do it, if they don't, they don't. They are perfectly capable of finding ways to put them in, they made the damn lore. You could make a million posts about this, but it won't change the outcome.
Who are you to say what is and is not a worthwhile venture? Having a steady source of biotics would be beneficial to any group (except maybe the Asari, but they do have some individuals who are very interested in Protheans so that can't be confirmed). Biotics are generally a rare occurence and being able to produce them en masse would be extremely good for the war effort. There is nothing to even suggest that their first order of business would be to find a homeworld; with the Reapers attacking, they have bigger problems. If my house was broken into, my first action wouldn't be to decide what shade of white I want to paint my living room, it would be to deal with the invader in some way (call the cops, get a weapon, etc.). And you obviously don't know what you're talking about when it comes to Prothean biology. The Prothean sensory ability is far more than you're childishly trying to make it out to be. This ability allowed Javik to immediately start conversing in a foreign language that he had never heard or seen before from a single touch. Considering how irrational the English language is, that's pretty d*mn impressive. They gain skills and experiences from this touch ability, which is why they used the beacons and memory shards as a means of preserving and passing on information. It is not like reading a book, it is essentially gaining firsthand experience from another individual or object instantaneously. Not only would this allow them to be trained, but as I have said in previous posts, no one but Bioware can prove that there has not been a cloning program being conducted in secret for several years now.
Once again, why exactly are you the authority on what is plausible and what is not? There is no reason that these Protheans would not be able to recover to the point of being battle-ready in the same period of time as Javik. Sure, they would need a few days of rest, but eventually they'll be ready to go. And Javik didn't CHOOSE to exit at the climax of this cycle. His stasis facility was drained of its power by a neutron purge and he was put into extraordinary circumstances that were not standard protocol. There isn't a reason why another facility couldn't be faced some kind of technical issue and the stasis would need to be deactivated manually. There are plenty of ways that could justify it, Bioware just needs to pick one. You also failed to read the OP, because I wrote a scenario involving a Raloi-esque freakout by a caravan of ships that venture into the territory of an uncharted relay and find a stasis facility. If a fan can write a plausible scenario for Prothean discovery, a professional writer working for Bioware would have no problem whatsoever. Once again, why are you apparently the expert when you are only exposed to as much knowledge as any other fan?
It is just tiring needing to repeatedly type this over and over: THERE IS NOTHING PREVENTING THE CLONING PROJECT FROM HAVING BEEN SECRET AND OPERATIONAL FOR YEARS. If every single researcher is busy working on the Crucible, why were there Salarian scientists on the STG base? Shouldn't they all be working on the Crucible? No, because that is not how society works; people need side projects and a plan for the future. Read the OP, the Salarian merchant is a perfect example of the fact that society never believes it will fall because it is structured to last forever. And when exactly were you hired as Javik's secretary? Javik would need convincing, but there is plenty of reason for him to be cloned that would not even ruin his story, just alter it. At first he would be reluctant (as seen when Mordin asked for a sample), but you could tell him the truth; you are giving him a second chance for the Prothean race. You have two paths to go down; either you let him remain the last of his kind as a brooding anti-hero or you let him complete his original objective: command an army of Protheans in the next cycle and defeat the Reapers. That wouldn't ruin his character, it would allow it to evolve into something better than it was originally. And don't bring up the suicide as his plans for after the war, because not everyone made the same choices as you did. Your canon does not reign supreme.
I don't know if you were taught how to correctly form a concluding sentence, but you need to bring some kind of rational argument if you want anyone to take you seriously.
The power supply would definitely dwindle, but that is not to say that all of the inhabitants would die. A recurring theme in the Prothean stasis is a VI with some sort of "contigency plan" that is enacted to save as many lives as possible. If manual ejection was necessary to remove the pods from stasis, the VI would not just let everyone die; it would prioritize the most important members and unplug those who weren't necessary. By doing that, we would be presented with the perfect situation; a small group of the elite of the Protheans from stasis. The number would be big enough to result in an UR MP card and small enough to not seem like BS space magic. And if you're going to pull the "needle in a haystack" card, explain why Javik isn't one. If there is one, there is no reason there couldn't be more.
This part made me giggle, you saying that there are "millions of ways that your ideas couldn't happen". Do you even understand what this argument is about? We are arguing that there are lore-friendly ways that Protheans could be brought back into the Mass Effect universe. You are saying that there are no more Protheans left. We have theories, you have assertions that you claim are facts. The burden of proof is on you, not us. If there are no more Protheans left in the ENTIRE GALAXY (save Javik), prove it to us. Go ahead, I'd love to see you try.
This just tickles me, pointing out that we aren't making the content and are not in charge of the lore. The thing you seem to ignore is that NEITHER ARE YOU. We aren't saying that Protheans are in stasis on this planet, we are suggesting that it could be possible. You are telling us that Protheans are not on that planet and do not exist anymore, yet you don't have the proof or authority to back up your argument. Until we are given a death confirmation for every Prothean in the galaxy that can be trusted, you do not have the evidence to back up any of your arguments. Plain and simple. You can express your opinion, you can say that you don't like the ideas, but you do not have the proof to dispute them and should stop attempting to do so. Also, making a million posts would change the outcome, because Bioware would take note that their fans want Protheans in the game and would do the simple task of adding them to make a profit for minimal work. A wishlist is more useful than a Things-I-Don't-Want list.
#157
Posté 17 août 2012 - 05:24
Father Superior
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Happy to help, OP. Anything to stomp out the "Protheans
are lore-breaking" mentality.
Glad to see that anti-Prothean people are so
eloquent in their attempts to justify their irrational opinions. You're a
credit to your kind.
The Eden Prime facility was evidently able to
solve the problem, but the neutron purge drained so much that it didn't matter.
If a facility were to function without extraordinary circumstances until the
Reapers left and then maybe suffer from some kind of malfunction that would
require manual waking of the Protheans from stasis, by the time period of ME3,
I would estimate that the max amount of Protheans that would still be alive in
stasis would not exceed more than 60% (as the most optimistic outcome). 60% or less of a stasis facility would
be perfect, as it would not be too many and it would also not be too few to
justify sending into battle against the Reapers if they so chose.
You obviously didn't read the post, the story
can remain without fornication and have Protheans.
Oh I'm sorry; I didn't realize that you were the
expert on the entire Mass Effect universe. Would you mind telling me what the
name of the race that became the first Reaper was? Or maybe what the Prothean
Empire's favorite sport was? How did the population of an empire that stretched
across the galaxy manage to fit into a single Collector Base? Can I see a
confirmed death report of every single last Prothean in the entire galaxy? If
you are so knowledgeable about everything going on in the entire galaxy, why
didn't you tell anyone that the STG were planning to uplift the Yahg or that
Sanctuary was an indoctrination research facility run by Cerberus? Is Bioware
telling you secrets and then making you pinky-swear not to tell anyone?
I don't know if anyone told you this little secret,
but (I bet this is gonna make you flip out from excitement) did you know
that YOU CAN SUPPORT MORE
THAN 1 IDEA AT A TIME?!?!?!?!? Crazy,
I know, but it's true. I support Protheans in MP and I also support more of the
already existing aliens (gotta love playing as Drell and Asari). But this
thread is about Protheans, so that's what we're discussing here. Not Turian
Cabal/Blackwatch (biotic Turian Sentinel, and not even one of those BS grenade
cop-outs, still need the Blackwatch though), not Salarian STG (Salarian
Infiltrator), not Quarian Marines (stick a Saber on an Infiltrator and use
Tactical Cloak like Adrenaline Rush and try to tell me that isn't a Quarian
Marine), not Asari Commandos (Adept and Vanguard are essentially the Asari
Commandos, Justicars aren't connected), Protheans. This thread is about
Protheans.
I don't know what you're thinking we're
suggesting, but you are way off. If Protheans (a fan-requested race by the way,
so you can stop trying to use that in your "argument") get added in a
DLC, they'll be added with new weapons, maps and items, just like the other
DLCs came with. If you want to complain about a lack of enemy types, go join
another thread focused on it or better yet, make your own. If you plan to
complain, do it in the right setting; I don't get a sh*tty sandwich from
McDonalds and then go complain to Burger King.
Fantastic, you won't choose to revive the
Protheans out of some childish idea that it'll change the minds of the people.
Well guess what? One of my Shepards chose to kill off the Quarians, but
apparently they didn't all die, they made peace with the Geth and the
hypothetical 5-7 of them remaining are choosing to risk their lives in war,
dooming their species to extinction if they die. My canon is not the same as your
canon, so someone is going to be disappointed.
You don't remember correctly. Protheans have a
quad strand DNA, something that is comparatively unique to the rest of the
galaxy at the point in time of the Mass Effect saga, which makes it require
some study before it is understood fully. That does not make Protheans
ineligible for cloning, it makes them require some time put in to study their
DNA in order to understand it and develop a means of cloning it, time that
could have already been spent conducting research in a top secret STG lab for
years. Complications do not stop things completely in the field of science;
they simply hinder them for a limited time until they're understood. Never
underestimate science; people thought man would never fly, we've done it.
People thought that man would never make it to the moon, we've done it. People
never thought that we would be able to explore planets other than our own,
we're doing it. Cloning Protheans is not impossible; it just requires time and
effort that for all we know has already been spent in an STG lab working on a
secret project.
Ilos was not primarily a stasis facility; it was
originally designed as a research facility. If it was designed to contain
Protheans in stasis and was given the needed power to do so, the survival rate
would have been much higher. Eden Prime's facility was a facility designed to
do so and without the need for a neutron purge that drained a massive amount of
its energy, it would have succeeded in its venture. The only reason Eden
Prime's neutron purge needed to be initiated was because of indoctrinated
traitors revealing its location to the Reapers, who dispatched forces to the
area. Due to the connections being severed between all of the remaining
Protheans after the initial Reaper attack, the only ones who would have had
knowledge of these facilities was someone on the inside. To assume that there were
only two stasis facilities in the entire GALAXY would be incredibly shortsighted and to assume that any and all
other stasis facilities, if they existed, were given away by indoctrinated
traitors in their midst is as close to a statistical impossibility as you can
get.
I find it funny that you claim that Pro-theans
are not fans, when it is you who refuse to let the lore of a series grow and
change by adding in new information and plot points, perpetuating the story. In
essence, you are suffocating the ME series, stunting its growth and claiming to
know everything about it when in reality, the series is changing shape with new
information all the time, like science. If you think that stubbornly holding
onto an idea from the first two games that has already been proven incorrect by
the third makes you a fan, I can assure you that you are dead wrong. Good
scientists never claim to know everything about their fields and good fans
never claim to know everything about their saga's lore.
are lore-breaking" mentality.
gh0st wh1sp3r wrote...
No. Just no.
Glad to see that anti-Prothean people are so
eloquent in their attempts to justify their irrational opinions. You're a
credit to your kind.
NinthGeorgesw wrote...
The reason Ilos "failed" is because of
lack of power. If another bunker could solve this problem, then the Protheans
would easily survive into this cycle.
The Eden Prime facility was evidently able to
solve the problem, but the neutron purge drained so much that it didn't matter.
If a facility were to function without extraordinary circumstances until the
Reapers left and then maybe suffer from some kind of malfunction that would
require manual waking of the Protheans from stasis, by the time period of ME3,
I would estimate that the max amount of Protheans that would still be alive in
stasis would not exceed more than 60% (as the most optimistic outcome). 60% or less of a stasis facility would
be perfect, as it would not be too many and it would also not be too few to
justify sending into battle against the Reapers if they so chose.
Senkis wrote...
tl,dr. Protheans no. Dont **** the story
up.
You obviously didn't read the post, the story
can remain without fornication and have Protheans.
Astartes Marine wrote...
Oh for the love of...what is the obsession with
the motherfrakking Protheans?! We see ONE Prothean, the LAST LIVING
Prothean, and suddenly holy crap they're the most demanded race. Javik
wasn't even likeable and there's still this obsession.
Rather than actually good ideas (not to mention
how much longer than Protheans they've been liked and requested) like Salarian
STG operatives, Turian Cabal / Blackwatch troops, Quarian Marines, or Asari
Commandos there's the demand for lousy Protheans. What the flippity ****?
If BioWare caves in to this garbage rather than
put resources and time
into creating GOOD content like more maps, more
enemies, more weapons,
new ideas for equipable items or the above
mentioned fan requested
characters and we instead got Protheans that
would infuriate me to no end.Skullheart wrote...
Javik, the last prothean.
I support this guy here, and I'd be willing to
help make Javik STAY the last Prothean.
I ain't reviving them if they die.
Oh I'm sorry; I didn't realize that you were the
expert on the entire Mass Effect universe. Would you mind telling me what the
name of the race that became the first Reaper was? Or maybe what the Prothean
Empire's favorite sport was? How did the population of an empire that stretched
across the galaxy manage to fit into a single Collector Base? Can I see a
confirmed death report of every single last Prothean in the entire galaxy? If
you are so knowledgeable about everything going on in the entire galaxy, why
didn't you tell anyone that the STG were planning to uplift the Yahg or that
Sanctuary was an indoctrination research facility run by Cerberus? Is Bioware
telling you secrets and then making you pinky-swear not to tell anyone?
I don't know if anyone told you this little secret,
but (I bet this is gonna make you flip out from excitement) did you know
that YOU CAN SUPPORT MORE
THAN 1 IDEA AT A TIME?!?!?!?!? Crazy,
I know, but it's true. I support Protheans in MP and I also support more of the
already existing aliens (gotta love playing as Drell and Asari). But this
thread is about Protheans, so that's what we're discussing here. Not Turian
Cabal/Blackwatch (biotic Turian Sentinel, and not even one of those BS grenade
cop-outs, still need the Blackwatch though), not Salarian STG (Salarian
Infiltrator), not Quarian Marines (stick a Saber on an Infiltrator and use
Tactical Cloak like Adrenaline Rush and try to tell me that isn't a Quarian
Marine), not Asari Commandos (Adept and Vanguard are essentially the Asari
Commandos, Justicars aren't connected), Protheans. This thread is about
Protheans.
I don't know what you're thinking we're
suggesting, but you are way off. If Protheans (a fan-requested race by the way,
so you can stop trying to use that in your "argument") get added in a
DLC, they'll be added with new weapons, maps and items, just like the other
DLCs came with. If you want to complain about a lack of enemy types, go join
another thread focused on it or better yet, make your own. If you plan to
complain, do it in the right setting; I don't get a sh*tty sandwich from
McDonalds and then go complain to Burger King.
Fantastic, you won't choose to revive the
Protheans out of some childish idea that it'll change the minds of the people.
Well guess what? One of my Shepards chose to kill off the Quarians, but
apparently they didn't all die, they made peace with the Geth and the
hypothetical 5-7 of them remaining are choosing to risk their lives in war,
dooming their species to extinction if they die. My canon is not the same as your
canon, so someone is going to be disappointed.
corporal doody wrote...
if i remember correctly...the cloning thing was
thrown out when it was stated in ME2 that prothean dna can not be cloned
because it is too complicated....if i remember correctly.
and a bunker? with protheans? FULL of
protheans? the mortality rate on Illos was terrible..and none
"survived" till the next cycle. Eden
Prime...Javik is the only one to survive. It would be down right
IMPROBABLE....and INSULTING if BW produced a large number of Protheans to
fulfill some LORE demand made by "fans."
protheans as BONUS characters in a
stand-alone ME Mp game...okay....
Protheans in ME3MP...HELLZ NAH
You don't remember correctly. Protheans have a
quad strand DNA, something that is comparatively unique to the rest of the
galaxy at the point in time of the Mass Effect saga, which makes it require
some study before it is understood fully. That does not make Protheans
ineligible for cloning, it makes them require some time put in to study their
DNA in order to understand it and develop a means of cloning it, time that
could have already been spent conducting research in a top secret STG lab for
years. Complications do not stop things completely in the field of science;
they simply hinder them for a limited time until they're understood. Never
underestimate science; people thought man would never fly, we've done it.
People thought that man would never make it to the moon, we've done it. People
never thought that we would be able to explore planets other than our own,
we're doing it. Cloning Protheans is not impossible; it just requires time and
effort that for all we know has already been spent in an STG lab working on a
secret project.
Ilos was not primarily a stasis facility; it was
originally designed as a research facility. If it was designed to contain
Protheans in stasis and was given the needed power to do so, the survival rate
would have been much higher. Eden Prime's facility was a facility designed to
do so and without the need for a neutron purge that drained a massive amount of
its energy, it would have succeeded in its venture. The only reason Eden
Prime's neutron purge needed to be initiated was because of indoctrinated
traitors revealing its location to the Reapers, who dispatched forces to the
area. Due to the connections being severed between all of the remaining
Protheans after the initial Reaper attack, the only ones who would have had
knowledge of these facilities was someone on the inside. To assume that there were
only two stasis facilities in the entire GALAXY would be incredibly shortsighted and to assume that any and all
other stasis facilities, if they existed, were given away by indoctrinated
traitors in their midst is as close to a statistical impossibility as you can
get.
I find it funny that you claim that Pro-theans
are not fans, when it is you who refuse to let the lore of a series grow and
change by adding in new information and plot points, perpetuating the story. In
essence, you are suffocating the ME series, stunting its growth and claiming to
know everything about it when in reality, the series is changing shape with new
information all the time, like science. If you think that stubbornly holding
onto an idea from the first two games that has already been proven incorrect by
the third makes you a fan, I can assure you that you are dead wrong. Good
scientists never claim to know everything about their fields and good fans
never claim to know everything about their saga's lore.
#158
Posté 17 août 2012 - 05:24
Father Superior
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- Members
- 377 messages
Xaijin wrote...
You keep making this topic saying it doesn't
break despite the fact BW won't remotely move in a pro prothean direction for
rather obvious reasons. Give it a rest.
Growing clones takes forever even without moral
or ethical restrictions, as Okeer showed. Kakliosaurs have the same logistical
issues, and they don't even to be taught or trained very much.
Javik's pod is in one of the last facilities on
absolutely minimal power, and even the best maintained facility on Ilos failed.
Yet shepard's just going to go the planet fanfictionia and find hordes of
perfectly maintained super protheans in perfectly maintained super pods. right.
The only race capable of cloning the protheans
are Reapers. Oops.
No protheans, all dead.
Xaijin wrote...
None of which assumes Leviathan has remotely any
interest in cloning perfectly trained protheans in THREE MONTHS.
None of your original points PROVE anything, in
fact they ignore the game itself, on purpose, because just like the indoctrination
theory, they rely 100% on coulda woulda shoulda, which BW has 100% failed to
address despite having the opportunity to do so.
# of protheans involved in hammer and
sword?
1.
# of prothean armies showed in ending content?
0.
Are you incapable of reading? The suggestion
says that STG could have been working on a project for years. The suggestion
isn't to just make a magic button that creates Protheans instantaneously, it's
to have a top secret project that has been in operation for however many years
and has nearly perfected the process of cloning a Prothean. The Kakliosaur
cloning can also be used to assume that ME universe clones operate on the clone
trait of rapid lifespan, allowing them to reach maturity in a shorter amount of
time than an average Prothean. The ethical and moral issues are perfect for the
core values of Mass Effect and in war times as perilous as these, you need to
make some tough decisions.
I have asked this too many time before: who are
you to tell me that the Eden Prime facility was "one of the last"
stasis facilities? There is nothing in-game to suggest that this was among the
last of them and you make your cause into a joke by pulling "facts"
out of your a**. Without any solid evidence, you have nothing to base your
assumption on and to tell Pro-theans that they're incorrect is just plain
stupid.
Leviathan is one of many options; that doesn't
need to be its role in the story. And how exactly are you qualified to tell me
what Reapers are and are not capable of doing? They have been harvesting cycles
for vast, unknown amounts of time and in the process, they've picked up a lot
of technology. Who are you to say that they haven't recovered rapid cloning
technology from a previous cycle?
I'm not even going to touch the IT, because it
is clear that you're baiting. If you were serious, you would realize that THEORY is EXACTLY what the Pro-thean argument is based off of; the
theory that not all Protheans are gone and that they could be written back into
the ME universe without breaking the lore. The burden of proof is on you; I'm
saying that it is possible that Protheans could still exist in the galaxy;
you're saying that they are all gone. I say prove it.
#159
Posté 17 août 2012 - 05:25
Father Superior
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- Members
- 377 messages
Karsciyin wrote...
I don't know... the only cloning I know of the Salarians doing is for kaliosaurs. And cloning... you still need to grow them from infancy. It's not a photocopy.
As for bunkers... the Ilos bunker failed. Only around 12 survived, and they ended the stasis early.
Javik is the only one to survive the Eden Prime one, but keep in mind 1/3 of the Protheans there were killed in their pods, increasing available power for the others. And yet only ONE GUY made it.
This theoretical bunker would have to possess a LOT. of power. And, potentially, only ever being intended for a hundred or so. (Think of the all that power 'wasted' on those who were shut off anyway... if they were never there, more would have made it.) Which wouldn't be feasible because they were never intended to last that long anyway - why would they calculate they needed that? It's not like the rich bought the guarantee, at the time of cryo the galaxy was ravaged by war and everyone had to take up arms at one point or another. (Plus I very much doubt that the Protheans were capatalists.)
The Eden Prime base also didn't activate sooner because the site had been damaged. If another bunker was successfully working, they would have been released sooner - as soon as the next cycle began, not as the next cycle was dying. Which would mean:
a) if their numbers Protheans would have more presence, a LIVING one - prehaps the plan Javik mentioned of 'not giving a choice' to follow under their banner. ORtheir numbers were too small to enact this plan. They continue like the Ilos base Protheans did - working behind the scenes, making modifications were possible.
Javik survived because he was a high-ranking soldier, and an avatar (of Vengeance). Potentially the HIGHEST ranking soldier to even be cryo'd.
Ilos scientists survived because they were a secret base set aside for SCIENCE! to help prevent the extinction of the next cycle.
So... what base would they uncover?
That said: I don't mind playing Protheans in MP. We already fight Geth on London and Palaven, fight Geth WITH GETH PLAYERS, fight Reapers at Cerberus' Glacier base, potentially fight with Quarians that have been wiped out. MP doesn't give a **** about Lore.
But unfortunately the lore still has issues slotting with SP.
Again, this cloning program could be years old and has been perfecting the cloning process over time. There is nothing that would force the program to begin anew right in the ME3 storyline. Ilos was not designed as a stasis bunker to outlast the Reapers for extended amounts of time and the Eden Prime facility only failed because of Victory's neutron purge. Had the facility been at full power, it probably would have been successful, seeing as Javik got out just fine. Your data is incorrect, if 1/3 was even mentioned, it was that they were all that were left after the purge and their pods would be periodically sacrificed until Javik was unearthed and released. Had the power been at full, he and the others would have been released at the beginning of this cycle. And keep in mind that the amount of Protheans in stasis were described as "hundreds of thousands of strong warriors", so this wasn't a minuscule attempt at survival. This was a full-fledged survival campaign; if they only took numbers in the hundreds, they would lose genetic diversity at an extreme rate and would be very weakened biologically by the time they faced the Reapers (assuming that they were incapable of or unwilling to particpate in cross-species breeding).
The idea isn't a perfectly functioning bunker, but a bunker that did not release the pods from stasis, whether it be a technological error or a rogue program (Starchild level of crazy). If it was perfect, they would have gotten out by the beginning of this cycle and the Reapers would have been defeated without any trouble. This base could hold anything, preferably a population that knew how to fight, which would be easy because everyone would be a soldier at that point in time (Javik was born into the war and there is little reason to believe that anyone would be exempt from combat training in those circumstances).
Teratoid wrote...
Good gravy, man: is that the conclusion you came to? Because "my logic" suggests nothing of the sort.
What I suggested is that it wasn't inconcievable that Ex-Cerberus personnel existed beyond the few displayed by the SP campaign. The Phoenix operatives just built off of that.
But more Protheans? That means that the Reapers did a terrible job during the previous cycle.
They keep popping up everywhere, and the entire foundation of the damn game starts to crumble. Why fight the Reapers at all? Just hide from them till they go away, apparently that would work pretty well, seeing as Protheans are magically appearing from every crevase. Just dig a couple of feet into the ground, hook yourself up to some wires and go into stasis. Apparently the Reapers have not considered overturning stones, the fools.
And whats to say that the Protheans showing up will be military types, anyway?
I've written my peace on this whole Protheans in MP thing. You may continue to wander in circles if you wish. This conversation is now over.
Javik mentions his people using the Rachni as weapons, a type of uplifting considering they needed to transport them from world to world. That makes the Rachni part of the previous cycle. I don't know about you, but I've fought an awful lot of Rachni considering that apparently every advanced species from the previous cycle is dead. The Reapers indeed did a terrible job, because they suffer heavily from hubris. They are so confident in their abilities that they assumed that the Eden Prime facility was void of life, leaving Javik alive. If they were so careless with him, why wouldn't they be with any other parts of the galaxy.
You really aren't prepared to debate, because you are ignoring the key point of what makes Protheans unique: their sensory ability. If by some miracle, a Prothean in the apocalyptic wasteland that was the galaxy when the Reapers struck was able to avoid learning how to use a weapon, they could just high-five a soldier and be trained in an instant. We don't need Prothean ex-soldiers, we need any Protheans because they can be easily trained into soldiers.
3XT3RM1N4TUS wrote...
BS idea is BS.
404 Error: Argument Not Found!
Kyerea wrote...
Deadlysyns wrote...
Why because you and a few others don't want it. get off your high horse its MP not Story modegh0st wh1sp3r wrote...
No. Just no.
Didn't realize Edmonton and Montreal counted as a few? Or 3/4ths of the entire BSN collective for that matter. The MP is dictated by ME3's story in relation to it's thematic universe. Unless BW states otherwise, there will be no Protheans in the MP due to lore inaccuracies. Don't like it? Go play something else.
I really hope that you're kidding right now. The BSN is the minority, they are only a small fraction of the fanbase. They aren't the biggest portion of it, they're just the loudest ones. And where did that ultra-elitist attitude come from? "I'm right because Bioware didn't tell you that you were right" is not a valid argument. If anything, the burden of proof is on you in this situation. We say Protheans could be possible, you say that they're all gone. Unless you have proof from a valid source, you have no ground to stand on.
Teratoid wrote...
They are uncharted relays in the current cycle. Who is to say the Protheans hadn't already explored it and recorded it at the Citadel? That thing about Reapers being thorough, I'm pretty sure that includes looking everywhere. Ilos only survived because NO ONE else knew about it, and Eden Prime was a fluke where one very condescending ****** managed to make it because others died ensuring that.
Even if other Protheans did survive the Reaper purge without going into stasis, it would've taken tens of thousands of Protheans to maintain a sustainable population, so unless you're okay with having severly weak and inbred Protheans as MP characters, where the event of a Swarmer sneezing next to you would likely rupture your spleen (if Protheans have spleens), its not a valid enough suggestion.
Had.
Who would've had to go into stasis to survive to this day. Because, once again, genetics and inbreeding come into play. Besides, the Reapers were hadly likely to have left supplies and ships behind. They came through the Citadel, so the first thing they did, as Reapers are wont to do, was to blow up everything in sight of their sensors.
This point has been argued some manyh times that it just wants to retire to a farm somewhere with a nice dog for company and a good book to read.
The Reapers wiped them out. Period. That's one of the major plot lines. Christ in a toupee, its not that difficult a concept to absorb. The Reapers are thorough, methodical, and effective. Otherwise, why just the Protheans? Have thousands of other long dead species popping up everywhere too.
As I have already pointed out, the Reapers are not nearly as thorough as they were originally made out to be. Knowing that they are not omniscient beings, how exactly are you going to prove that Eden Prime was a fluke? There is no reason to believe that Eden Prime and Ilos were the only two facilities in the GALAXY that existed.
I am actually beginning to doubt that you even have properly developed reasoning skills. If Protheans survived, they would not have been released from stasis yet. If they had been, they would have enacted some kind of plan, probably like Javik's plan. The fact that the races of this cycle are independent is evidence enough. If Protheans are alive, then there are many different ways to explain it, my personal one being a programming and hardware malfunction that forces the pods to be taken out of stasis manually. There are any number of possibilities, from a rogue VI that went Starchild crazy and kept them trapped to a crazy Hanar cult discovering their precious Enkindlers and keeping them in secret for worship purposes. It's not my job to write them in, it's on Bioware's shoulders. And of all of the ways they could write them in, I assure you that a group of feral inbred Prothean remnants do not make any of their lists.
As I've already pointed out, they would not choose to exit at the end of this cycle, it would need to be caused by some kind of problem, whether a technological error or an outside force.
If you think that the stasis pod theory has been used too often, I can't even tell you how many narrow-minded "fans" like you have said that the Protheans are all gone. If Javik is alive, there is no reason that more couldn't have survived in some way. The Reapers are not as thorough, methodical or effective as you seem to think they are and to believe otherwise is living in the past with outdated information.
Astaiir wrote...
YEAH, GENIUS OP.
They cloned an army of Protheans in 1 month. No, one day.
Couldn't "waste time" reading the post because you just needed to get out that "hilarious" post to us, huh?
#160
Posté 17 août 2012 - 05:25
Father Superior
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- Members
- 377 messages
[quote]Thaxor wrote...
[quote]Skullheart wrote...
Javik, the last prothean.[/quote]
This. He was put in place to show the reality of what Shepard and the galaxy are facing. That's pretty much his whole purpose.
Last thing the Alliance would want is the Salarians risking resources on clones, only to have said location where clones are growing get wasted.
If/when the galaxy survives, then they can consider cloning the Protheans back to live.
Cloning the Protheans would be a Hail Mary pass. A last ditch and decidedly STUPID attempt to fight back. "Hey guys, lets spends lots of money to cook up a batch of Prothean stew, watch it simmer for a while, all while we lose worlds, then watch most of them invariably die in the lopsided battles they will face."
Last I checked, the galaxy is already spending all their resources on a last ditch effort to save the galaxy.
[/quote]
You didn't read the post and are obviously not aware of how things work in wartime. The Alliance does not have total control over everything, they do not know what every single government/organization is doing at any given moment and people are still pursuing other ventures besides war. The STG are planning to uplift the Yahg, did the Alliance know that? None of us did until we saw them and heard the log. If there are undercover operations in existence already, what exactly makes a cloning program a complete impossibility? Private business and special operations are never completely focused on war, they're focused on dominance and self-preservation. As it says in the OP, the Salarian merchant is a perfect example and it is not possible to completely debunk Protheans without solid proof from a very reliable source.
I don't know what world you live in, but Prothean shock troopers would not be a "Hail Mary pass", they would be a vital cog in the machine that is the war effort. Biotics are essential, modding ammo and fighting in direct combat situations, why wouldn't someone want to clone a slew of expendable biotic shock troopers that can be trained with a simple high-five to a soldier? And I really hope that you were joking with that last line, because that is flat-out wrong.
[quote]jancz89 wrote...
is there a reason why would species of our cycle cloned protheans? I mean why, what's the point? just to please MP players? protheans are dead deal with it [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]
whatever your argument is, it's invalid [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/kissing.png[/smilie]
concentrate on quality notquantity more turians, asari, krogans, salarians,...
[/quote]
I hate to burst your bubble, but using emoticons doesn't make your poor excuse for a post any less BS. 1/10, because I actually bothered to take the time to respond to your sorry troll behind.
[quote]DHKany wrote...
Yes, and let's completely stomp Javik's story to pieces.
Seriously, at least make a SP dlc first. [/quote]
It wouldn't stomp his story to pieces, it would allow for him to get a sense of accomplishment by completing his primary mission: command an army of Protheans to defeat the Reapers in the next cycle. Seeing him commanding an army to defeat the enemy that had ravaged his life for his entire existence in order to finally feel that sense of accomplishment would be a hell of a lot better than being a brooding anti-hero who ends up offing himself.
[quote]Godokay wrote...
Prothean bunkers: If it was for civilians then the info on these bunkers would reach the reapers. And Science research facilities are most likely to have bunkers ready in a time of need.
but if they were hidden on a colonized planet it is likely to be found (reapers took their time making sure there was nothing left. thousands of years)
If the info on that bunker was held on the citadel it would be in reapers hands.
If held off world only few would reach it (most being trapped and killed before leaving) and even then it would be in ->charted< space so the bunker has to be well hidden with stockpile of resources that would last 50 000 years (which had to be put together before hand which is unlikely because they had no clue of the upcoming danger)
Cloning seems more likely but has some weird bits like only the hannar would back a project like this (with salarians doing the work) which is fine
DNA would have to be stolen from javik assuming the DNA obtained on Ilos was not good enough (if its was enough prothean clone would already exist)
The Prothean Clones can only learn about Prothean through what is already known so lost technology can not be recovered or loss knowledge (i guess some can be recovered through Prothean artifacts but not helpful stuff)
Im starting to think mp should just not make sense so we can get more out of it.[/quote]
The Reapers did not take their time making sure nothing was left; Javik is proof of that. His bunker was also revealed only because indoctrinated traitors alerted the Reapers, not because it was stumbled upon, which means the Protheans were capable of hiding their bunkers well. And you said the magic word: likely. "Likely" does not mean anything in this situation; as a Pro-thean, I only need to provide a rational argument for why Protheans could be brought back into the ME universe. You, on the other hand, need to prove that every single last Prothean is dead using accurate information from a valid source. Until there is a confirmation from Bioware that the Protheans are all gone, there is no way to truly prove that they can't be brought back somehow. I addressed the remainder of the issues from your post in my multiple ones, I'm far too tired to keep typing the same thing over and over.
[quote]jancz89 wrote...
seems to me that people were amazed by Javik's coolness and now they want other protheans, but that's just not possibleblebleble[/quote]
Looks like someone can't read.
[quote]Lajkos wrote...
[quote]Skullheart wrote...
Javik, the last prothean.[/quote]
This. There is no lore friendly way to have MP Protheans [/quote]
If you plan to argue, bring some kind of argument to the table. Just saying that they can't happen after being presented with plausible situations is not a proper argument and it makes you look like a simpleton.
[quote]KiraTsukasa wrote...
"Lore friendly."
If by that you mean SHOE HORN.
Salarian cloning, eh? Because they have the time to clone a prothean that they don't have access to while their world is burning to the ground in the middle of a galactic crisis. MAKES PERFECT SENSE![/quote]
But they have the time and resources to uplift the Yahg? Seriously, read the OP and stop making a fool of yourself. Making a failed attempt to disprove one part of the argument does not make you the victor.
[quote]Flog61 wrote...
Good point kira, there is no way in hell that javik would agree to being cloned.[/quote]
Are you Javik's secretary? Did he tell you that? Can I get a statement from Bioware saying that Javik would never agree to being cloned? And while you're at it, can I get a statement saying that DNA can't be cloned if it is unknowingly or unwillingly taken from the organism donating? You have absolutely no proof that Javik could not be convinced to allow his DNA to be cloned and you also have no argument for the DNA being forcibly taken from him. Come prepared or don't come at all.
[quote]Descy_ wrote...
I got this DLC in my Collector's Edition that said I was getting the last Prothean for my squad.
So there's more?
Can I have my $10 back? Javik is no longer special.
[/quote]
Har dee har. Looks like we have a comedian in the thread! Did you write that all by yourself, or did you need help from a friend? Let me tell you what the back of my copy of Mass Effect 3 says: "Earth is ground zero in the war to save the galaxy, and how you wage that war is entirely up to you..." When did I get to wage the war exactly as I wanted to? I never got the chance to deploy Hanar troops to Thessia, I never got to send an Elcor squad to Rannoch. Did I get lied to? Was I given false information? It sure wouldn't be the first time, considering that I was also told for two games that every single Prothean is dead, but somehow one just appeared out of nowhere? If I've been lied to and misinformed all this time, why should I believe that this time I'm being given the truth?
And if you think that Javik isn't special, then I guess that means that Sovereign wasn't special either. I mean, they are both just the first of many of their kind that you eventually meet, but I guess that doesn't hold any significance whatsoever.
Seriously Descy_ , just because you're well known here doesn't mean that you don't need to try to form a real argument like the rest of us.
[quote]xsdob wrote...
Cloning protheans...yeah, because cloning a species that has sensory systems that aren't the same as us as soliders worked out so well when we did it for the rachni on noveria right?
We were able to figure out how to raise them right before they went permanently crazy and turned into killing machines the last time it was done under extremely controlled conditions, that's how it went down in my playthrough at least.
/sarcasm.[/quote]
Unless you have proof that the Protheans would go crazy, which was only a product of the Rachni queen not being within a range from which they could hear her "sing", you don't have proof that it would happen and therefore Bioware doesn't need to include it. Doesn't make it impossible, but there is no reason to expect it.
[quote]Skullheart wrote...
Javik, the last prothean.[/quote]
This. He was put in place to show the reality of what Shepard and the galaxy are facing. That's pretty much his whole purpose.
Last thing the Alliance would want is the Salarians risking resources on clones, only to have said location where clones are growing get wasted.
If/when the galaxy survives, then they can consider cloning the Protheans back to live.
Cloning the Protheans would be a Hail Mary pass. A last ditch and decidedly STUPID attempt to fight back. "Hey guys, lets spends lots of money to cook up a batch of Prothean stew, watch it simmer for a while, all while we lose worlds, then watch most of them invariably die in the lopsided battles they will face."
Last I checked, the galaxy is already spending all their resources on a last ditch effort to save the galaxy.
[/quote]
You didn't read the post and are obviously not aware of how things work in wartime. The Alliance does not have total control over everything, they do not know what every single government/organization is doing at any given moment and people are still pursuing other ventures besides war. The STG are planning to uplift the Yahg, did the Alliance know that? None of us did until we saw them and heard the log. If there are undercover operations in existence already, what exactly makes a cloning program a complete impossibility? Private business and special operations are never completely focused on war, they're focused on dominance and self-preservation. As it says in the OP, the Salarian merchant is a perfect example and it is not possible to completely debunk Protheans without solid proof from a very reliable source.
I don't know what world you live in, but Prothean shock troopers would not be a "Hail Mary pass", they would be a vital cog in the machine that is the war effort. Biotics are essential, modding ammo and fighting in direct combat situations, why wouldn't someone want to clone a slew of expendable biotic shock troopers that can be trained with a simple high-five to a soldier? And I really hope that you were joking with that last line, because that is flat-out wrong.
[quote]jancz89 wrote...
is there a reason why would species of our cycle cloned protheans? I mean why, what's the point? just to please MP players? protheans are dead deal with it [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]
whatever your argument is, it's invalid [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/kissing.png[/smilie]
concentrate on quality not
[/quote]
I hate to burst your bubble, but using emoticons doesn't make your poor excuse for a post any less BS. 1/10, because I actually bothered to take the time to respond to your sorry troll behind.
[quote]DHKany wrote...
Yes, and let's completely stomp Javik's story to pieces.
Seriously, at least make a SP dlc first. [/quote]
It wouldn't stomp his story to pieces, it would allow for him to get a sense of accomplishment by completing his primary mission: command an army of Protheans to defeat the Reapers in the next cycle. Seeing him commanding an army to defeat the enemy that had ravaged his life for his entire existence in order to finally feel that sense of accomplishment would be a hell of a lot better than being a brooding anti-hero who ends up offing himself.
[quote]Godokay wrote...
Prothean bunkers: If it was for civilians then the info on these bunkers would reach the reapers. And Science research facilities are most likely to have bunkers ready in a time of need.
but if they were hidden on a colonized planet it is likely to be found (reapers took their time making sure there was nothing left. thousands of years)
If the info on that bunker was held on the citadel it would be in reapers hands.
If held off world only few would reach it (most being trapped and killed before leaving) and even then it would be in ->charted< space so the bunker has to be well hidden with stockpile of resources that would last 50 000 years (which had to be put together before hand which is unlikely because they had no clue of the upcoming danger)
Cloning seems more likely but has some weird bits like only the hannar would back a project like this (with salarians doing the work) which is fine
DNA would have to be stolen from javik assuming the DNA obtained on Ilos was not good enough (if its was enough prothean clone would already exist)
The Prothean Clones can only learn about Prothean through what is already known so lost technology can not be recovered or loss knowledge (i guess some can be recovered through Prothean artifacts but not helpful stuff)
Im starting to think mp should just not make sense so we can get more out of it.[/quote]
The Reapers did not take their time making sure nothing was left; Javik is proof of that. His bunker was also revealed only because indoctrinated traitors alerted the Reapers, not because it was stumbled upon, which means the Protheans were capable of hiding their bunkers well. And you said the magic word: likely. "Likely" does not mean anything in this situation; as a Pro-thean, I only need to provide a rational argument for why Protheans could be brought back into the ME universe. You, on the other hand, need to prove that every single last Prothean is dead using accurate information from a valid source. Until there is a confirmation from Bioware that the Protheans are all gone, there is no way to truly prove that they can't be brought back somehow. I addressed the remainder of the issues from your post in my multiple ones, I'm far too tired to keep typing the same thing over and over.
[quote]jancz89 wrote...
seems to me that people were amazed by Javik's coolness and now they want other protheans, but that's just not possibleblebleble[/quote]
Looks like someone can't read.
[quote]Lajkos wrote...
[quote]Skullheart wrote...
Javik, the last prothean.[/quote]
This. There is no lore friendly way to have MP Protheans [/quote]
If you plan to argue, bring some kind of argument to the table. Just saying that they can't happen after being presented with plausible situations is not a proper argument and it makes you look like a simpleton.
[quote]KiraTsukasa wrote...
"Lore friendly."
If by that you mean SHOE HORN.
Salarian cloning, eh? Because they have the time to clone a prothean that they don't have access to while their world is burning to the ground in the middle of a galactic crisis. MAKES PERFECT SENSE![/quote]
But they have the time and resources to uplift the Yahg? Seriously, read the OP and stop making a fool of yourself. Making a failed attempt to disprove one part of the argument does not make you the victor.
[quote]Flog61 wrote...
Good point kira, there is no way in hell that javik would agree to being cloned.[/quote]
Are you Javik's secretary? Did he tell you that? Can I get a statement from Bioware saying that Javik would never agree to being cloned? And while you're at it, can I get a statement saying that DNA can't be cloned if it is unknowingly or unwillingly taken from the organism donating? You have absolutely no proof that Javik could not be convinced to allow his DNA to be cloned and you also have no argument for the DNA being forcibly taken from him. Come prepared or don't come at all.
[quote]Descy_ wrote...
I got this DLC in my Collector's Edition that said I was getting the last Prothean for my squad.
So there's more?
Can I have my $10 back? Javik is no longer special.
[/quote]
Har dee har. Looks like we have a comedian in the thread! Did you write that all by yourself, or did you need help from a friend? Let me tell you what the back of my copy of Mass Effect 3 says: "Earth is ground zero in the war to save the galaxy, and how you wage that war is entirely up to you..." When did I get to wage the war exactly as I wanted to? I never got the chance to deploy Hanar troops to Thessia, I never got to send an Elcor squad to Rannoch. Did I get lied to? Was I given false information? It sure wouldn't be the first time, considering that I was also told for two games that every single Prothean is dead, but somehow one just appeared out of nowhere? If I've been lied to and misinformed all this time, why should I believe that this time I'm being given the truth?
And if you think that Javik isn't special, then I guess that means that Sovereign wasn't special either. I mean, they are both just the first of many of their kind that you eventually meet, but I guess that doesn't hold any significance whatsoever.
Seriously Descy_ , just because you're well known here doesn't mean that you don't need to try to form a real argument like the rest of us.
[quote]xsdob wrote...
Cloning protheans...yeah, because cloning a species that has sensory systems that aren't the same as us as soliders worked out so well when we did it for the rachni on noveria right?
We were able to figure out how to raise them right before they went permanently crazy and turned into killing machines the last time it was done under extremely controlled conditions, that's how it went down in my playthrough at least.
/sarcasm.[/quote]
Unless you have proof that the Protheans would go crazy, which was only a product of the Rachni queen not being within a range from which they could hear her "sing", you don't have proof that it would happen and therefore Bioware doesn't need to include it. Doesn't make it impossible, but there is no reason to expect it.
#161
Posté 17 août 2012 - 05:26
Father Superior
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- Members
- 377 messages
[quote]DullahansXMark wrote...
Think of it this way. Someday they're FINALLY gonna run out of ideas and will be forced to turn to this, provided they don't go to it any sooner.
Not to mention, there actually could be a nice sentimental side to it. Like, imagine Javik, ready to end his life now that the Reapers are gone, finds out that his people are not quite yet extinct. Not only that, but they too have actually been helping fight the Reapers. But that's neither here nor there.
I lend you Pro-Protheans (lol) my support, but I honestly would like to see the Terminus Pack DLC idea come to fruition before then, as its creator just put in too much effort for BioWare to not even take so much as a look.[/quote]
Javik's story could be enriched by it. Currently, he's just an angry suicidal soldier; but if he can find more Protheans or clone them, he is able to complete his primary mission: commanding an army of Protheans in the next cycle to defeat the Reapers. That could be written to be much better than him just killing himself.
[quote]Jonathan Shepard wrote...
No. Stop. Go away. Javik being alive was stretching it enough already.
I love him. I love the protheans. But I do not want to see them in MP. It /does/ break the lore. No. I didn't read the OP. Yeah, I'm being ignorant and dismissive of this idea. Welcome to the internet. [/quote]
Thanks for pointing out that your opinion has no meaning. Makes it a lot easier than picking through it and explaining why you're wrong.
[quote]rockthatwood wrote...
Protheans will happen. Klencory. Money in Bioware's pocket. End of discussion. Do your research and use your heads. [/quote]
Even if they don't go with Klencory for bringing back the Protheans, I hope they do something with it. It seems like a really odd story to be telling on the side without any explanation.
[quote]death_for_sale wrote...
Maybe instead of giving us a new character race that few people actually care about and many actively oppose due to lore, why not give us new game modes or new enemy factions? Why not fix issues broken since launch?
Cloning doesn't pop out a full grown creature, so unless we are doing Prothean children fighters, there goes that option.
Every single instance of Prothean bunkers have slowly but surely had to shut off lifepods to stay in power. We are talking 50 thousand years of slow attrition. So even if you do find a Prothean bunker, the likelihood is that everything in it is probably dead.
Your beginning point is one heck of an assumption. No figure was ever listed as to the numbers of the official/unofficial N7 teams. So yes, if one ASSUMES that there is a very small number of operatives and one ASSUMES that even 6 Protheans somehow managed to survive the constant power attrition, you could cram Protheans into MP.
But again, why bother? There are a number of other options already available that would be much easier to implement, such as the terminus DLC suggestion. These are already in the lore and do not have to be created like catalyst kid Protheans.[/quote]
I have literally addressed all of these in my past posts. I'm not going to type it again, so get reading.
[quote]Carnagedude504 wrote...
I doubt that they would be able to clone an army that quickly. After all, the cloning operation in ME1 produced a few Krogan, maybe enough for a small division of armed infantry, and since Shepard finds Javik (the last known prothean) in the limited time-span of ME3, it really doesn't seem likely that cloning would work. Not only that, but what about the technology? Protheans are ancient, and who knows if cloning devices would work on them? Maybe it wouldn't be able to reproduce their DNA, and how long would it take to train these cloned warriors if the cloning process even proves to be effective? Unless you want a lot of half-brained (quarter-brained doesn't sound as good) Protheans running around then it won't happen.[/quote]
Yet again, this cloning program could have been started years ago and is nearing perfection. I'm not going to bother typing every one of my arguments again so just sort through if you want answers.
[quote]Carnagedude504 wrote...
You may think that they learn through touch, but we don't know if this is a triggered ot passive racial ability. If it's not a passive ability, then the cloners would have to train the clones manually, much like the tank-bred Krogan in ME1 and ME2. The origin of the Prothean's ability is not explained, therefore this 'cloning' process could go one of two ways, in complete success or extreme failure. I go with the latter, because I believe it would be an inconvenience to learn everything about something as soon as I touch it. If you've played ME3's From ashes DLC you'd know that the ability supports the 'activated' theory, since Shepard can ask Javik what he can sense about the room he is in, and it takes him a moment to process the information.
[/quote]
No, we have confirmation that they do indeed gain skills through touch. They can learn languages and skills through touch which is why they utilized beacons and memory shards. You are doing a poor job of trying to debunk Protheans.
[quote]corporal doody wrote...
and im not convinced Javik would ALLOW himself to be cloned. so any cloning would have to be from other sources (fossilized Prothean remains perhaps)....if it was possible...im pretty sure they would have done this by the time our story began.
so no...i doubt cloning.
and conveniently finding prothean cryo tubes with live protheans...en masse....laughable
[/quote]
"Hey guys, 'corporal doody' said he isn't convinced a character we created would do what we said he'd do, so it looks like that whole Prothean thing is a no-go." -Heard in the Bioware offices
You are not raising any points for your side of the argument at all and have presented absolutely no proof, so you are really just continually bumping a thread that you disagree with. Smart.
[quote]o Gummy o wrote...
HEY LISTEN the one thing everyone is forgetting is that protheans powers aren't even that good it would basically just be like the N7 FURY there once unique powers are basically the same annihilation field, dark channel and then there's lift grenades plus a few others I can't remember the furs powers are the only ones that stood out as being new, the only MP unique thing is slam I'm pretty sure.[/quote]
This is not a gameplay discussion. Bioware could add in new powers for the Protheans if they chose to. This is about why it is lore friendly, and a supply of biotic shock troopers could be beneficial to the war effort, both on and off the battlefield.
[quote]xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...
Fury is a joke.
Prothean Adept
Dark Channel
Biotic Barrage or throw that can get the final evo from SP(two throw projectiles at once)
Dominate
Unique
Prothean Vanguard
Biotic Charge
Annihilation Field
Slam
Unique
And these I just thought off the top of my head. I'm hopeful BioWare can do better.[/quote]
OP, you just managed to make me, a male, wet. Just wanted to let you know.
( I LOVE DOMINATE [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie])
[quote]SapientesGladio wrote...
On wiki go to note 48 watch all of Mr. Meers interview, what other alien could he voice act in mp other than prothean....unless bioware Really Is going to introduce new aliens in leviathan...but all I saw in those pics was a green human looking character[/quote]
I've heard something about him voicing a Volus, which could support the Klencory theory.
[quote]Teratoid wrote...
[quote]xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...
Adding Protheans does not have to break lore. These arguments prove that.[/quote]
What most of these arguments "prove" is that to justify the sudden appearance of thousands upon thousands of Protheans, you'd need some sort of deus ex machina. Which invariably involve some sort of incredible oversight on part of the Reapers in somehow forgetting to search certain locations. Or cloning the last living Prothean to make a horde that would basically be no different from what Saren attempted with the Krogan. And most of these arguments fail to specify exactly what the point of cloning Protheans would be anyway, when you could just clone more Krogan or Turian and so on.
Also, Protheans lost the previous war because of their inability to adapt. Yeah, that's what you need on your side.
[/quote]
We aren't required to prove anything. You are supposed to do that. We're suggesting it's possible for Protheans to make a return, you're telling us that it is not possible. You need proof or your argument doesn't have anything to back it up. And you also seem to have ignored this entire thread: we have established that we only need upwards of a hundred Protheans, we have shown that it would not require deus ex machina, the Reapers already have proven they are not the perfect killing machines with Javik, there is nothing solid to prove that Prothean clones would be uncontrollable, we have established that Protheans are biotics and cloning Turian and Krogan biotics would be less likely due to it not being innate in them, and the Protheans didn't get "exterminated" because they couldn't adapt, they are the perfect hunters with great adaptability through their touch, they were "exterminated" because the Reapers attempt to kill all advanced life and you can't adapt to be less advanced without devolving.
Think of it this way. Someday they're FINALLY gonna run out of ideas and will be forced to turn to this, provided they don't go to it any sooner.
Not to mention, there actually could be a nice sentimental side to it. Like, imagine Javik, ready to end his life now that the Reapers are gone, finds out that his people are not quite yet extinct. Not only that, but they too have actually been helping fight the Reapers. But that's neither here nor there.
I lend you Pro-Protheans (lol) my support, but I honestly would like to see the Terminus Pack DLC idea come to fruition before then, as its creator just put in too much effort for BioWare to not even take so much as a look.[/quote]
Javik's story could be enriched by it. Currently, he's just an angry suicidal soldier; but if he can find more Protheans or clone them, he is able to complete his primary mission: commanding an army of Protheans in the next cycle to defeat the Reapers. That could be written to be much better than him just killing himself.
[quote]Jonathan Shepard wrote...
No. Stop. Go away. Javik being alive was stretching it enough already.
I love him. I love the protheans. But I do not want to see them in MP. It /does/ break the lore. No. I didn't read the OP. Yeah, I'm being ignorant and dismissive of this idea. Welcome to the internet. [/quote]
Thanks for pointing out that your opinion has no meaning. Makes it a lot easier than picking through it and explaining why you're wrong.
[quote]rockthatwood wrote...
Protheans will happen. Klencory. Money in Bioware's pocket. End of discussion. Do your research and use your heads. [/quote]
Even if they don't go with Klencory for bringing back the Protheans, I hope they do something with it. It seems like a really odd story to be telling on the side without any explanation.
[quote]death_for_sale wrote...
Maybe instead of giving us a new character race that few people actually care about and many actively oppose due to lore, why not give us new game modes or new enemy factions? Why not fix issues broken since launch?
Cloning doesn't pop out a full grown creature, so unless we are doing Prothean children fighters, there goes that option.
Every single instance of Prothean bunkers have slowly but surely had to shut off lifepods to stay in power. We are talking 50 thousand years of slow attrition. So even if you do find a Prothean bunker, the likelihood is that everything in it is probably dead.
Your beginning point is one heck of an assumption. No figure was ever listed as to the numbers of the official/unofficial N7 teams. So yes, if one ASSUMES that there is a very small number of operatives and one ASSUMES that even 6 Protheans somehow managed to survive the constant power attrition, you could cram Protheans into MP.
But again, why bother? There are a number of other options already available that would be much easier to implement, such as the terminus DLC suggestion. These are already in the lore and do not have to be created like catalyst kid Protheans.[/quote]
I have literally addressed all of these in my past posts. I'm not going to type it again, so get reading.
[quote]Carnagedude504 wrote...
I doubt that they would be able to clone an army that quickly. After all, the cloning operation in ME1 produced a few Krogan, maybe enough for a small division of armed infantry, and since Shepard finds Javik (the last known prothean) in the limited time-span of ME3, it really doesn't seem likely that cloning would work. Not only that, but what about the technology? Protheans are ancient, and who knows if cloning devices would work on them? Maybe it wouldn't be able to reproduce their DNA, and how long would it take to train these cloned warriors if the cloning process even proves to be effective? Unless you want a lot of half-brained (quarter-brained doesn't sound as good) Protheans running around then it won't happen.[/quote]
Yet again, this cloning program could have been started years ago and is nearing perfection. I'm not going to bother typing every one of my arguments again so just sort through if you want answers.
[quote]Carnagedude504 wrote...
You may think that they learn through touch, but we don't know if this is a triggered ot passive racial ability. If it's not a passive ability, then the cloners would have to train the clones manually, much like the tank-bred Krogan in ME1 and ME2. The origin of the Prothean's ability is not explained, therefore this 'cloning' process could go one of two ways, in complete success or extreme failure. I go with the latter, because I believe it would be an inconvenience to learn everything about something as soon as I touch it. If you've played ME3's From ashes DLC you'd know that the ability supports the 'activated' theory, since Shepard can ask Javik what he can sense about the room he is in, and it takes him a moment to process the information.
[/quote]
No, we have confirmation that they do indeed gain skills through touch. They can learn languages and skills through touch which is why they utilized beacons and memory shards. You are doing a poor job of trying to debunk Protheans.
[quote]corporal doody wrote...
and im not convinced Javik would ALLOW himself to be cloned. so any cloning would have to be from other sources (fossilized Prothean remains perhaps)....if it was possible...im pretty sure they would have done this by the time our story began.
so no...i doubt cloning.
and conveniently finding prothean cryo tubes with live protheans...en masse....laughable
[/quote]
"Hey guys, 'corporal doody' said he isn't convinced a character we created would do what we said he'd do, so it looks like that whole Prothean thing is a no-go." -Heard in the Bioware offices
You are not raising any points for your side of the argument at all and have presented absolutely no proof, so you are really just continually bumping a thread that you disagree with. Smart.
[quote]o Gummy o wrote...
HEY LISTEN the one thing everyone is forgetting is that protheans powers aren't even that good it would basically just be like the N7 FURY there once unique powers are basically the same annihilation field, dark channel and then there's lift grenades plus a few others I can't remember the furs powers are the only ones that stood out as being new, the only MP unique thing is slam I'm pretty sure.[/quote]
This is not a gameplay discussion. Bioware could add in new powers for the Protheans if they chose to. This is about why it is lore friendly, and a supply of biotic shock troopers could be beneficial to the war effort, both on and off the battlefield.
[quote]xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...
Fury is a joke.
Prothean Adept
Dark Channel
Biotic Barrage or throw that can get the final evo from SP(two throw projectiles at once)
Dominate
Unique
Prothean Vanguard
Biotic Charge
Annihilation Field
Slam
Unique
And these I just thought off the top of my head. I'm hopeful BioWare can do better.[/quote]
OP, you just managed to make me, a male, wet. Just wanted to let you know.
( I LOVE DOMINATE [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie])
[quote]SapientesGladio wrote...
On wiki go to note 48 watch all of Mr. Meers interview, what other alien could he voice act in mp other than prothean....unless bioware Really Is going to introduce new aliens in leviathan...but all I saw in those pics was a green human looking character[/quote]
I've heard something about him voicing a Volus, which could support the Klencory theory.
[quote]Teratoid wrote...
[quote]xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...
Adding Protheans does not have to break lore. These arguments prove that.[/quote]
What most of these arguments "prove" is that to justify the sudden appearance of thousands upon thousands of Protheans, you'd need some sort of deus ex machina. Which invariably involve some sort of incredible oversight on part of the Reapers in somehow forgetting to search certain locations. Or cloning the last living Prothean to make a horde that would basically be no different from what Saren attempted with the Krogan. And most of these arguments fail to specify exactly what the point of cloning Protheans would be anyway, when you could just clone more Krogan or Turian and so on.
Also, Protheans lost the previous war because of their inability to adapt. Yeah, that's what you need on your side.
[/quote]
We aren't required to prove anything. You are supposed to do that. We're suggesting it's possible for Protheans to make a return, you're telling us that it is not possible. You need proof or your argument doesn't have anything to back it up. And you also seem to have ignored this entire thread: we have established that we only need upwards of a hundred Protheans, we have shown that it would not require deus ex machina, the Reapers already have proven they are not the perfect killing machines with Javik, there is nothing solid to prove that Prothean clones would be uncontrollable, we have established that Protheans are biotics and cloning Turian and Krogan biotics would be less likely due to it not being innate in them, and the Protheans didn't get "exterminated" because they couldn't adapt, they are the perfect hunters with great adaptability through their touch, they were "exterminated" because the Reapers attempt to kill all advanced life and you can't adapt to be less advanced without devolving.
#162
Posté 17 août 2012 - 05:49
sirus1988
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Simply put, not enough timespan.
cloning would take too long. Remember, MP only has limited time span in which reapers attack Earth to Shepard's last choices. SCNT method takes normal time for zygote to develope into newborn. Also, tankborn would take too long, Okeer spent many years in trials before he could make a viable krogan.
As for the hidden bunker, possible but unlikely to be found in time span of ME3. More interest and resources pooled into fighting a war than to exploring uncharted worlds. Then again, Shepard has enough time to find certain objects in order to gain war assets..
cloning would take too long. Remember, MP only has limited time span in which reapers attack Earth to Shepard's last choices. SCNT method takes normal time for zygote to develope into newborn. Also, tankborn would take too long, Okeer spent many years in trials before he could make a viable krogan.
As for the hidden bunker, possible but unlikely to be found in time span of ME3. More interest and resources pooled into fighting a war than to exploring uncharted worlds. Then again, Shepard has enough time to find certain objects in order to gain war assets..
#163
Posté 17 août 2012 - 07:06
xSNPx ZoDiaC
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^ Are you SERIOUSLY that oblivious??? Hey! psst, here'a hint... Look at several posts DIRECTLY above yours. Don't strain your eyes now!
#164
Posté 17 août 2012 - 07:20
xSNPx ZoDiaC
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@Father Superior
I'm glad you like dominate. I always wanted to see this power again and was wondering just who could do it? Asari ardat-yaksi? Perhaps. Then I thought about the Protheans.
I think it fits with both their impressive biotic abilities & their imperalistic nature. It makes sense! When listening to javik talk about their sensory ability I just could not stop thinking about dominate. If anyone can use dominate(besides ardat-yaksi) it would have to be the Protheans.
I'm glad you like dominate. I always wanted to see this power again and was wondering just who could do it? Asari ardat-yaksi? Perhaps. Then I thought about the Protheans.
I think it fits with both their impressive biotic abilities & their imperalistic nature. It makes sense! When listening to javik talk about their sensory ability I just could not stop thinking about dominate. If anyone can use dominate(besides ardat-yaksi) it would have to be the Protheans.
Modifié par xSNPx ZoDiaC, 17 août 2012 - 07:31 .
#166
Posté 17 août 2012 - 07:23
staindgrey
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Doesn't matter if it's lore-friendly. Krogan can be stabbed by a single sword in one of their stomachs and be killed instantly. There are Geth on Thessia. There are "high ranking personnel" in the mindless Reaper husk troops. We can heal a Geth teammate with medi-gel. The N7 troops have the red band on BOTH arms.
Dude, **** lore. If they wanna put in Protheans, put in Protheans.
Dude, **** lore. If they wanna put in Protheans, put in Protheans.
#167
Posté 17 août 2012 - 08:16
Guesty 1991
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I'd love to see them in multi-player, If the enemy can team up why not give us Protheans. Its multi-player if you care about the lore than go ask yourself how countless waves of non-stop hoards stand up against 4 players over and over again on the same map at the same time every day.
If you care about the Lore then go sit in a dark corner and cry because We don't care...
If you care about the Lore then go sit in a dark corner and cry because We don't care...
#168
Posté 17 août 2012 - 09:38
Father Superior
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sirus1988 wrote...
Simply put, not enough timespan.
cloning would take too long. Remember, MP only has limited time span in which reapers attack Earth to Shepard's last choices. SCNT method takes normal time for zygote to develope into newborn. Also, tankborn would take too long, Okeer spent many years in trials before he could make a viable krogan.
As for the hidden bunker, possible but unlikely to be found in time span of ME3. More interest and resources pooled into fighting a war than to exploring uncharted worlds. Then again, Shepard has enough time to find certain objects in order to gain war assets..
You really need to read the entire thread to make an informed argument on this subject. We have already said several times that this cloning program does not need to be started during ME3, it could have been created secretly years ago and has almost perfected the process by the events of ME3.
There's that magic word again: unlikely. "Unlikely" is not a proper argument, as it does not dispute the other side entirely. If you want to argue likelihood, tell me the probability of a single Prothean in the entire galaxy being found on a previously colonized planet just before the Reapers invade. Extraordinary things happen in fictional stories and this would be no different.
xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...
@Father Superior
I'm glad you like dominate. I always wanted to see this power again and was wondering just who could do it? Asari ardat-yaksi? Perhaps. Then I thought about the Protheans.
I think it fits with both their impressive biotic abilities & their imperalistic nature. It makes sense! When listening to javik talk about their sensory ability I just could not stop thinking about dominate. If anyone can use dominate(besides ardat-yaksi) it would have to be the Protheans.
I agree that it fits their nature that we see in Javik and considering that their biotic abilities aren't shown in their entirety, it could make a lot of sense. Looking at the way Ardat-Yakshi's abilities work, through the Asari mental-bonding ability, the Protheans could use their similar ability to exercise power over their foes. I have considered and supported Ardat-Yakshi characters, but it could work well on Protheans too.
rockthatwood wrote...
Father Superior is my hero
Then I guess it isn't weird to be typing all of this in a Batman costume...
staindgrey wrote...
Doesn't matter if it's lore-friendly. Krogan can be stabbed by a single sword in one of their stomachs and be killed instantly. There are Geth on Thessia. There are "high ranking personnel" in the mindless Reaper husk troops. We can heal a Geth teammate with medi-gel. The N7 troops have the red band on BOTH arms.
Dude, **** lore. If they wanna put in Protheans, put in Protheans.
Guesty 1991 wrote...
I'd love to see them in multi-player, If the enemy can team up why not give us Protheans. Its multi-player if you care about the lore than go ask yourself how countless waves of non-stop hoards stand up against 4 players over and over again on the same map at the same time every day.
If you care about the Lore then go sit in a dark corner and cry because We don't care...
As true as these are, we are attempting to reach out to the fans of the lore to show them that they are being irrational and overreacting to the wrong things. If we were to really take a good look at the way the lore matches up with MP, the inconsistencies would outnumber the consistencies exponentially.
#169
Posté 17 août 2012 - 09:48
Merchant2006
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Skullheart wrote...
Javik, the last prothean.
OP: STAY TUNED FOR THE "NEW LAST PROTHEAN(S)" DLC IN MASS EFFECT 3'S AMAZING MULTIPLAYER MODE. NO LORE BREAKING ACTION HERE FOLKS.
Fans: YOU BETRAYED THE LORE!!!!
OP: LOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE.
/thread
Modifié par Merchant2006, 17 août 2012 - 09:48 .
#170
Guest_N7-Link_*
Posté 17 août 2012 - 10:02
Guest_N7-Link_*
Guest_N7-Link_*
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Prothean ultra rare char 
Modifié par N7-Link, 17 août 2012 - 10:02 .
#171
Posté 17 août 2012 - 10:05
Beefprophet
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Nonononononnono, screw the lore for a second. The last thing Bioware needs to do is add even MORE classes to a game mode that's already overflowing with ****ty classes that noone wants to play (human sentinal, female quarian infiltrator etc).
Why don't we focus on making ALL the classes more fun to play, rather than adding more classes that end up being more of the same. Besides, what are they gonna do with Protheans besides an essentially playable Javik?
Why don't we focus on making ALL the classes more fun to play, rather than adding more classes that end up being more of the same. Besides, what are they gonna do with Protheans besides an essentially playable Javik?
#172
Posté 17 août 2012 - 10:06
The Waffle Cat
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lore lol
Starchild sayin he controls the reapers ---> leviathan a rogue reaper...wut?
lore is a joke.
Starchild sayin he controls the reapers ---> leviathan a rogue reaper...wut?
lore is a joke.
#173
Posté 17 août 2012 - 10:06
sartt
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wouldn't be hard to clone them... the Collectors still have prothean DNA DO IT!
#174
Posté 17 août 2012 - 10:08
vliktor
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I would like to see (or play) the Protheans in a future ME game, maybe as a flashback, but not on the current MP setup. They're extinct for a reason; cloning them would be just wrong.
#175
Posté 17 août 2012 - 11:50
jacob92883
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I haven't read everything in this topic but I can give the perfect answer for adding protheans to multiplayer; Klencory is a prothean built cloning facility. It would have been designed to quickly grow and train prothean troops for the war effort. And not just the protheans we know, but all the species in the prothean empire. And you must be wondering how this facility survived; the toxic atmosphere of Klencory would have helped to hide it but that is only part of the answer. They would have dismantled the power supply in order for their empire to be resurrected by the intelligent species of the next cycle. This is how you add protheans to multiplayer and maintain the lore.
