They aren't really lore friendly but hey I don't care anymore, give me goddamn Yoda as a playable and the Vulcans as an enemy factions for all I care, just keep the game fresh and fun...
Pro-Prothean arguments. Protheans for MP! And best of all? LORE FRIENDLY!!! See how in this thread...
Débuté par
xSNPx ZoDiaC
, août 14 2012 07:03
Retour en haut
#202
Posté 18 août 2012 - 05:27
rockthatwood
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corporal doody wrote...
...if it could have been done...it would have been done already.
not necessarily. maybe they lacked something. like a living prothean. and now that javik is in the picture...
and it matters not if he doesn't want to be cloned. if the council wants protheans, they will clone protheans. they don't need his consent.
#205
Guest_Arcian_*
Posté 18 août 2012 - 05:31
Guest_Arcian_*
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Fixed that for ya, bud.Skullheart wrote...
Javik, the last known prothean.
#206
Posté 18 août 2012 - 05:35
rockthatwood
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DHKany wrote...
I want my 10$ back if this happens.
why?
#207
Posté 18 août 2012 - 05:38
DHKany
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rockthatwood wrote...
DHKany wrote...
I want my 10$ back if this happens.
why?
paid a DAY ONE 10$ DLC to get the LAST PROTHEAN.
Only to find that a few months later, protheans suddenly get rediscovered/cloned.
I want that day one DLC to remain special.
#208
Posté 18 août 2012 - 05:42
rockthatwood
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DHKany wrote...
rockthatwood wrote...
DHKany wrote...
I want my 10$ back if this happens.
why?
paid a DAY ONE 10$ DLC to get the LAST PROTHEAN.
Only to find that a few months later, protheans suddenly get rediscovered/cloned.
I want that day one DLC to remain special.
firstly, it was never stated that he is in fact the last prothean. here's the description:
"Unearth lost secrets from the past and recruit the Prothean squad member in Mass Effect 3: From Ashes."
secondly, it is called a EULA. read it.
#209
Posté 18 août 2012 - 05:52
Finchtastic
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LuckyBullet95 wrote...
They aren't really lore friendly but hey I don't care anymore, give me goddamn Yoda as a playable and the Vulcans as an enemy factions for all I care, just keep the game fresh and fun...
Agreed! Let's bring some Klingons in the game too at this point. Man I'm so sick of these Protheans arguments in MP. Are people that bored? Really?
#210
Posté 18 août 2012 - 06:06
FullMetalArthur
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Ok. the lore you create seems factible, but there are solid facts that make prothean extinct forever.
1. Javik survived and that was like Luke destroying the death star. One in a million. but ok, how many prothean existed at one point? billions? ok but how many remain after the Reaper suprise attack. thousands? Javik was just the last. It is poetic almost, even with javik alive the reapers succeded in making them extinct, and even after the reapers returned to dark space, the collectors kept searching. Not even the last group of the brightest prothean scientist were able to mantain alive a dozen of his comrades. Their last effort was to make sure we don't suffer the same fate. It was because of them Sovereign failed and the citadel wasn't destroyed.
don't undermine that sacrifice by forcing a lore where other hundred of prothean survived.
2. to succefully clone a living organism it needs to grow from scratch, pretty much like embryons. even passing the fact that Javik would agree to give away tissie sample to clone more protheans (which im sure he won't) it will take decades. And if you insist that the cloning research started decades ago wouln't make sense given the fact that you need a prothean (dead or alive) to do such thing. And only a handful of people knew that the collectors were protheans once, and the general info of prothean was so vage that many didn't even considered them real, except for hanar. AND THEY wouln't even dare on consider cloning their gods.
so, in resume. the lore can be implemented all right, but it will break the sense of everything javik represents and symbolizes. AND THAT WOULD BE LIKE MATRIX RELOADED AND REVOLUTIONS.
so please, no.
1. Javik survived and that was like Luke destroying the death star. One in a million. but ok, how many prothean existed at one point? billions? ok but how many remain after the Reaper suprise attack. thousands? Javik was just the last. It is poetic almost, even with javik alive the reapers succeded in making them extinct, and even after the reapers returned to dark space, the collectors kept searching. Not even the last group of the brightest prothean scientist were able to mantain alive a dozen of his comrades. Their last effort was to make sure we don't suffer the same fate. It was because of them Sovereign failed and the citadel wasn't destroyed.
don't undermine that sacrifice by forcing a lore where other hundred of prothean survived.
2. to succefully clone a living organism it needs to grow from scratch, pretty much like embryons. even passing the fact that Javik would agree to give away tissie sample to clone more protheans (which im sure he won't) it will take decades. And if you insist that the cloning research started decades ago wouln't make sense given the fact that you need a prothean (dead or alive) to do such thing. And only a handful of people knew that the collectors were protheans once, and the general info of prothean was so vage that many didn't even considered them real, except for hanar. AND THEY wouln't even dare on consider cloning their gods.
so, in resume. the lore can be implemented all right, but it will break the sense of everything javik represents and symbolizes. AND THAT WOULD BE LIKE MATRIX RELOADED AND REVOLUTIONS.
so please, no.
#211
Posté 18 août 2012 - 06:08
DHKany
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rockthatwood wrote...
DHKany wrote...
rockthatwood wrote...
DHKany wrote...
I want my 10$ back if this happens.
why?
paid a DAY ONE 10$ DLC to get the LAST PROTHEAN.
Only to find that a few months later, protheans suddenly get rediscovered/cloned.
I want that day one DLC to remain special.
firstly, it was never stated that he is in fact the last prothean. here's the description:
"Unearth lost secrets from the past and recruit the Prothean squad member in Mass Effect 3: From Ashes."
secondly, it is called a EULA. read it.
point taken. But then Javik's tragic story would be ruined. And then I would seriously never play SP ever again.
But each to his own.
#212
Posté 18 août 2012 - 06:17
rockthatwood
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DHKany wrote...
rockthatwood wrote...
DHKany wrote...
rockthatwood wrote...
DHKany wrote...
I want my 10$ back if this happens.
why?
paid a DAY ONE 10$ DLC to get the LAST PROTHEAN.
Only to find that a few months later, protheans suddenly get rediscovered/cloned.
I want that day one DLC to remain special.
firstly, it was never stated that he is in fact the last prothean. here's the description:
"Unearth lost secrets from the past and recruit the Prothean squad member in Mass Effect 3: From Ashes."
secondly, it is called a EULA. read it.
point taken. But then Javik's tragic story would be ruined. And then I would seriously never play SP ever again.
But each to his own.
i personally think it would add to his story, but like you said to each his own.
and i'm just trying to make protheans in SP justifiable because most people want them in SP first before MP. i honestly don't care that much and just want them in MP.
#213
Posté 18 août 2012 - 06:56
Chardonney
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rockthatwood wrote...
I honestly don't care that much and just want them in MP.
Agreed. Just give us the Protheans. The lore has already left the building a long time ago.
#214
Posté 18 août 2012 - 07:08
Subtle Riot
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I'm glad the battlefield 2 soldier fits into the mass effect lore.
#215
Posté 18 août 2012 - 07:34
saturos2
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yes nay sayers because geth on earth fighting other geth makes more sense.
#216
Posté 19 août 2012 - 12:41
Father Superior
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[quote]corporal doody wrote...
[quote]Father Superior wrote...
[quote]corporal doody wrote...
and im not convinced Javik would ALLOW himself to be cloned. so any cloning would have to be from other sources (fossilized Prothean remains perhaps)....if it was possible...im pretty sure they would have done this by the time our story began.
so no...i doubt cloning.
and conveniently finding prothean cryo tubes with live protheans...en masse....laughable
[/quote]
"Hey guys, 'corporal doody' said he isn't convinced a character we created would do what we said he'd do, so it looks like that whole Prothean thing is a no-go." -Heard in the Bioware offices
You are not raising any points for your side of the argument at all and have presented absolutely no proof, so you are really just continually bumping a thread that you disagree with. Smart.
[/quote]
WOOOOO
WOOO....
<INSERT SNARKY COMMENT THAT SHOWS HOW MAGNANIMOUS I AM AND HOW MUCH YOU SUCK>
here on the BSN you win a "What IF..." argument with a COUNTER "What IF..."
and/or "My Speculation and Lack of Proof" DEFEATS "Your as Speculation and Lack of Proof"..... EVEN WHEN NOTHING EXISTS TO PROVE OR DISPROVE EITHER SPECULATION.
this is far more true when WIT is applied (or attempted) i guess
AND since when is it that one can only post in a thread if they AGREE with something? The title clearly states "ARGUMENTS" so um.
[/quote]
I really hope that you're kidding, because that may have been the most illogical post I have seen on this site ever. Seriously, I have seen joke threads about nerfing the Eagle that have been more reasonable and intelligent than you have presented yourself thus far. First of all, you seem to be trying to tell me how things work on the BSN as if they adhere to different rules than any other place where a debate can be held. There is absolutely no "What if" that you could present that could counter another "What if", because there is no real action or information introduced yet. If your logic were to be applied to real life, the Pope would be able to disprove the "theory" of evolution by saying "But what if that didn't happen and it was God?". If that's all you can bring to the table, you should really just stop embarrassing yourself and leave.
You're either trolling or unable to focus long enough to read the entire thread, because if you weren't, then you'd have seen that it has already been established that as a Pro-thean, I do not need to bring any proof of living Protheans to the table, I just need to show how it is possible in the story that Bioware created. You may have noticed a bolded word in that last sentence; it is exactly why I am not required to bring proof. If this were a real situation, but substitute Protheans for something else like Martians, I would need to bring proof of these creatures existence and presence on Mars. But because this is a story and Bioware is able to bend and shape the reality however they please, no matter how improbable the events they put in action may be, there is absolutely no need or way for me to bring proof. I've said it many times before and if anti-Protheans are all as "remarkably absorbent in regards to information" as you, then I'll say it again: Pro-theans show that the story allows for more Protheans to be cloned/found and to make/find them wouldn't need to break the lore, anti-Protheans simply say that all Protheans are gone. You're asserting your own assumptions that you are falsely claiming as fact; if all of the Protheans are gone, prove it. Until a reliable source that can be trusted confirms the fate of the Protheans, you have nothing to base your argument on.
Assuming "WIT" is "What I think", you have absolutely no idea how an argument is formed. Just because you don't think that it can happen does not mean that others do too. A lot of people are rational enough to see that probability is not really enough of a counter-argument when the "last" Prothean just happens to emerge as the lone survivor of a stasis facility on a world that had been colonized over 30 years before at the end of the next cycle. There are even factors in the Pro-thean favor outside of the lore; Bioware/EA can make money off of content without needing to do a huge chunk of the work for MP. All of Javik's animations, mechanics, and models can be recycled or even tweaked just a slight bit to make it ready for MP; to choose not to make money off of something that you already made money off of before is a business decision that a company like EA would NEVER miss out on.
Finally, I wasn't saying that you aren't allowed to post if you don't agree, I was saying that if you are so opposed to the idea of Protheans being revived in some way, then you should either make an argument that isn't paper thin or you should just ignore the thread and try to keep it out of the public eye by not bumping it. Every reply you post is just more publicity of your failure to debunk Protheans and more people who get on board the idea of Protheans being brought back for MP. If you were actually bringing up good points then it would be different, but right now you are simply putting your failure of an argument on display for the entire BSN.
[quote]Alpha735 wrote...
[quote]jacob92883 wrote...
I was on the wiki earlier and I noticed the Reapers left an awful lot of prothean artifacts and relics around. You'd think that if they left that many clues laying around they might have missed a facility or two as well.
The Reapers also only found Javik's facility because of indoctrinated agents among the his personnel. So WHAT IF another base managed to succeed where Javik failed.[/quote]
It would be highly improbable (Notice, not impossible) for a prothean stasis facility to be found that actually contains living protheans, as Javik's facility was a rare case. Ironically, Javik was only preserved until this cyclebecause of the power loss. The protheans' plan for the stasis pods was to remain in stasis until the reapers left, then immediately begin rebuilding an empire. Thus, if any stasis facilities managed to survive unharmed, the protheans contained within would have started a new prothean empire, and the events of Mass Effect would not be possible. The only way for more protheans to have survived via stasis is if they experienced the exact same power malfunction as Javik's installation.
That being said, I believe cloning could be a viable way to introduce protheans, but I don't really see Javik as a willing donor of DNA. Perhaps a prothean VI would be willing to offer medical records?
[/quote]
Probability isn't something that the anti-Protheans can really use on their side; they have no problem with the "last" Prothean in the GALAXY being uncovered on a world that was colonized over 30 years beforehand, coincidentally right as the Reapers are ravaging this cycle. I'm not an expert on probability, but the odds of Javik's origins in ME3 occuring aren't exactly what I, or anyone with a functioning brain, would call good. But they happened anyway.
Once again, who are you to tell me or anyone else what is and what is not a rare case in Prothean stasis projects? Do you have specific knowledge of any Prothean stasis projects besides Eden Prime and Ilos that you used to determine what were common outcomes? If you don't, then you have nothing to base your argument on except speculation. Without specific information from a trustworthy primary source, there is nothing to prove that Protheans are completely gone from the ME universe and unable to return. For all we know, there are stasis facilities still in the galaxy that faced technological malfunctions that rendered them unable to remove the pods from stasis without manual assistance that are struggling to keep what few inhabitants are left (I would estimate that 40-50% of the original population could remain at most in any given facility) alive through a protocol similar to the "contingency plans" used by Vigil and Victory at the Ilos and Eden Prime facilities.
Nobody said that Javik needed to be willing to donate his DNA. Considering Alliance protocol when allowing a new "prisoner" on board is unknown to the player and so old that the crew needed to "dust off the old rule book", it could involve the taking of a DNA sample to identify the creature/prisoner, something that could be expected of the "new-to-space" mindset seeing as most hypothetical instances of aliens being discovered in that era seemed to involve dissecting the creature to learn about it's biology. There are dozens of other ways DNA could be forcibly taken from Javik, that's just one off the top of my head. Additionally, Javik isn't necessarily opposed to donating his DNA to reviving the Protheans, as no one but Bioware can be 100% sure of Javik's thoughts and feelings as a character. Consider this; Wrex mentions that Mordin took the sample from a "very sensitive place". How do we know that by refusing to submit to donating a sample to Mordin while he was alive, Javik wasn't saying "I don't want to donate my DNA to potentially save my race from extinction", but rather "KEEP THAT SCALPEL AWAY FROM MY ALIEN T*******S"? The whole things boils down to the fact that when you control the thoughts and feelings of a character, you can pretty much do whatever you please; Bioware left enough leeway to make Javik submit to DNA donation without completely going against the character.
[quote]corporal doody wrote...
i dunno man.....The cloning of Krogan to be used as troops in ME1 was seen as abominable. But the cloning of Protheans to be used as troops...cool beans? i guess it is only a moral and ethical issue when they are on your side.
I do agree that Javik WOULD NOT ALLOW himself to be cloned.
the VI thing i didnt think about.
anyother way...if it could have been done...it would have been done already.
[/quote]
There are endless reasons that could justify it; the Protheans are "extinct" and this could be their means of being revived, the galaxy has never faced a foe as powerful as the Reapers and in war times like these, you need all of the help you can get (do you think the Alliance would work with mercenary groups like the Blue Suns and the Blood Pack in any other situation, or vice versa?), the Protheans are worshipped by the Hanar and the chance to be able to revive their gods is something that they would not miss out on, etc. Also, unless you wrote Javik's character and are able to control his thoughts and feelings, you are not in the position to say what he will and will not do. You can make predictions based on his actions, but you are not able to be 100% sure without being in charge of his own actions, thoughts and feelings, something that the writers at Bioware are. They decide what Javik does, not you, me or anyone else.
You can tell how much you were reaching with that last sentence, because it is incredibly flawed. If the Crucible could have been made and activated, it would have been done already. If the Reapers can wipe out the entire galaxy this cycle, it would have been done already. If the Geth and Quarians are capable of peace, it would have been done already, before ME3. Saying that "if it can be done, it would have already been achieved" is a complete cop-out and not anywhere near a proper argument.
[quote]Garland7A wrote...
I think we have enough race/classes, they need to add more enemy factions imo.[/quote]
If there were enough races and classes in the MP to keep people happy and entertained, it would not be dying without DLC to defibrillate it every few months. This thread is not about adding new enemy factions, it is about adding Protheans into MP without breaking the (already broken) lore; if you want to discuss that, make your own thread.
[quote]corporal doody wrote...
the council couldnt afford it. What did they say..the galactic econonmy would collapse after only a year.
and with all the resources and top scientist working on the cruicible..... i dunno
edit: and the..."oh they cloned the klakulosaur (or whatever they are called)" i would argue that cloning a animal is "easier" than cloning a "person."
we can clone a sheep or mouse....but i have yet to see them clone a person (scientific and moral/ethical issues need apply!)
[/quote]
Once again, you're wrong. All of the top scientists and resources in the GALAXY are not being put solely into the Crucible. Ever heard of a saying that goes something like "Don't put all of your eggs into the same basket"? That applies perfectly, because people are still planning for a future that doesn't exist. There are still Salarians planning to uplift the Yahg (sounds costly, seeing as things such as the Shroud were parts of the Krogan uplift), a rich volus is using his money on excavation of Klencory, a Salarian merchant on the Citadel refuses to give his guns to the war effort without proper compensation that would retain value in a barter system, Cerberus is studying and trying to control indoctrination at Sanctuary, and Commander Shepard is spending their time buying model spaceships and fish for their aquarium. There will never be 100% collaborative concentration on the war effort in any situation in history, even in most of the fictional ones.
Unless you are an expert in cloning, the biology of all creatures of the Mass Effect universe and all technology as of Mass Effect 3, your doubt doesn't strengthen the argument of your side. And how exactly does modern technology have any meaning in this situation? With modern sciences, we are unable to surpass the speed of light, have not established contact with any other species existing on planets or other celestial bodies other than Earth, and do not have a magic gel that we can smear on ourselves to heal gunshot wounds; by the events of these games, things have changed.
[quote]Alpha735 wrote...
Yeah, I guess the council's resources are already stretched, plus the research might take too long. How long is ME3 anyway?
[/quote]
Read. The. Thread. Nothing is stopping this cloning program from being in operation for several years and finally being close to a breakthrough that would perfect the process around the time of ME3.
[quote]Kataigida wrote...
Cloning is the absolute worst way that they could implement Protheans, even if there was already some facility that was trying to clone them since before the war. I'd rather they just found a random bunker somewhere that had a platoon of Protheans in it...but even then, that idea is far fetched. Why? Well for one, the base would have automatically awoken the protheans after a few hundred or maybe a couple thousand years so that they could re-populate and regrow their empire. Even if by some chance their systems got fried like Javik's, the facility isn't going to have enough power to last 50,000 years and save a platoon-sized group of Protheans. Even with auto-awakening, the Prothean bunker on Ilos couldn't sustain its population, and it was supposed to do actually what it is you want to propose. Only about two dozen out of hundreds of Protheans survived until they were re-awoken. And then in Javik's case, he had a fairly large army in stasis...all of whom had to be purged because there wasn't enough power, because in the end, the power only was enough for a single Prothean to survive 50,000 years.[/quote]
No it isn't, you're just too narrow-minded to consider other possibilities, so you continually attempt to poke holes in a series of theories that can adapt to them. I don't even see an attempt to dispute cloning other than "I don't like it, so it won't happen", so I'm just going to go straight to your attempts to take down the possibility of finding more stasis pods.
First, who are you to tell anyone what is and is not far fetched? Unless you have knowledge of every single action the Protheans took over the course of their entire Empire, from their first colony to their "annihilation" at the hands of the Reapers, you are not qualified to tell anyone what is and is not possible, nor to what degree. You have no proof that the other Prothean facilities were completely fool-proof and would have operated without a single problem, nor do you have proof that the Protheans had completely eliminated the possibility of technological bugs or malfunctions that could lead to circumstances that would allow for a group of them to remain trapped in stasis, unable to emerge without manual assistance.
You're severely underestimating the Protheans. They were prepared for a VERY long stasis. They didn't intend to stay in stasis for very long, but they were prepared to if the situation changed; this was a life or death situation that could determine their fate as a species, they could not afford to be killed off by a variable no one considered. Before Victory even initiated the neutron purge, approximately 300,000 lifepods had been lost, to which Javik says in shock "A third of our people"; think about how much power would be required to keep those pods running, because that power is now excess for the remaining pods. He later is seen saying that they will rise again "a million strong", revealing that there are at least 700,000/600,000 Prothean lifepods left to be occupied. After being told that there are some refugees that have yet to reach the bunker, Javik is not completely disheartened and says "Their sacrifice will be honored in the coming empire." While no actual numbers given, it can be estimated to be quite a great number. Eden Prime's facility is now only required to use approximately 2/3 of it's full reserves, leaving a hefty excess for any unforeseen circumstances. Then, the bad news comes: the facility is compromised and a neutron bombardment must be initiated to purge the Reaper forces. Javik cringes as the explosions are heard and when Victory tells him the bunker is secure, he replies with "What's left of it. A few hundred people. How am I to rebuild an Empire from that?" Did you catch that part? The neutron purge ate up so much power, that a facility housing 600,000-700,000 Protheans running on enough energy to house 1,000,000 Protheans was cut down to the mere hundreds in survivors. And due to the inability of automatic reactivation from the damage of the neutron purge, the VI decided to focus on preserving a single Commander, due to a "contingency plan" that kept the highest members in society alive in favor of average citizens. Now imagine that there was a facility in the same situation, except it did not need to initiate a neutron purge, but it did face technological difficulties that required manual reactivation of the lifepods to bring the subjects out of stasis. It is entirely plausible that a small group of Protheans numbering in the hundreds could be preserved by a "contingency plan" set in place by the VI looking over the facility to ensure that at least some survivors would make it to the next cycle. You're attempt at using Ilos is flawed because it was not originally designed to be a stasis facility and due to the Reaper presence remaining longer than expected, Vigil was forced to go with the "contingency plan" he had been programmed to do if necessary. Had Ilos not primarily been a research facility and was equipped as a well as a stasis bunker, it might have had a chance, but to compare it to one that was designed for stasis pods like Eden Prime is like comparing hiding in a fallout bunker to hiding underneath a desk.
[quote]Schneidend wrote...
Lore issues aside, I just don't want them to waste time and effort making Prothean classes. I'd much rather see Spectre alien classes (to mirror the N7s) or Mercenary (Blue Sun, Eclipse, Blood Pack, etc.) classes.[/quote]
Waste time and effort? They can copy and paste Javik's animations, mechanics and models into the MP with slight adjustments and they're done. The SP DLC still needs to be made, but half the work is already done for them, by them.
[quote]LuckyBullet95 wrote...
They aren't really lore friendly but hey I don't care anymore, give me goddamn Yoda as a playable and the Vulcans as an enemy factions for all I care, just keep the game fresh and fun...[/quote]
No, they are lore friendly. Moreso than a lot of content already in MP.
[quote]DHKany wrote...
I want my 10$ back if this happens.[/quote]
If Javik not being the only Prothean makes you eligible for your money back from "From Ashes", then I deserve my money back from Mass Effect 1 because Sovereign wasn't the only Reaper.
[quote]FullMetalArthur wrote...
Ok. the lore you create seems factible, but there are solid facts that make prothean extinct forever.
1. Javik survived and that was like Luke destroying the death star. One in a million. but ok, how many prothean existed at one point? billions? ok but how many remain after the Reaper suprise attack. thousands? Javik was just the last. It is poetic almost, even with javik alive the reapers succeded in making them extinct, and even after the reapers returned to dark space, the collectors kept searching. Not even the last group of the brightest prothean scientist were able to mantain alive a dozen of his comrades. Their last effort was to make sure we don't suffer the same fate. It was because of them Sovereign failed and the citadel wasn't destroyed.
don't undermine that sacrifice by forcing a lore where other hundred of prothean survived.
2. to succefully clone a living organism it needs to grow from scratch, pretty much like embryons. even passing the fact that Javik would agree to give away tissie sample to clone more protheans (which im sure he won't) it will take decades. And if you insist that the cloning research started decades ago wouln't make sense given the fact that you need a prothean (dead or alive) to do such thing. And only a handful of people knew that the collectors were protheans once, and the general info of prothean was so vage that many didn't even considered them real, except for hanar. AND THEY wouln't even dare on consider cloning their gods.
so, in resume. the lore can be implemented all right, but it will break the sense of everything javik represents and symbolizes. AND THAT WOULD BE LIKE MATRIX RELOADED AND REVOLUTIONS.
so please, no.[/quote]
I don't think you know what a fact is, much less a "solid" one. First off, you are trying to state something as fact while constantly asking questions about it, which is clear evidence that you don't know. I may not have an exact number, as only Bioware has that, but I do have information that makes theorizing possible. First off, you are completely and totally wrong about the Prothean Empire's population pre-Reapers. Billions? There are 7 billion people on Earth today. Their empire is supposed to have reached across the ENTIRE GALAXY. Anything short of trillions is complete nonsense and even then, trillions are on the small side. As you can see in my previous posts, it is established that Javik is exactly that, one in a million. Dialogue from "From Ashes" in the flashbacks you watch when first finding the lifepod confirm that Javik's cell of survivors numbered in at least 1,000,000, as that was the capacity of the Eden Prime stasis facility. He mentions that all of the cells lost communications with each other, making a census of the Prothean population after the initial Reaper invasion impossible for anyone but Bioware. However, if Javik's group could remain hidden (until being revealed by indoctrinated traitors of their own cell, as no one outside the cells knew about the other cells) with 1,000,000 people, others could too. That is not to say every other cell contained 1,000,000 or more, but it is entirely possible for that to be true. If this, only a mere fragment of what the Prothean Empire once was, was capable of generating enough power to preserve 1,000,000 Protheans in stasis, then there is reason to believe that the others could too. Some might not have needed to house a million, others might have needed more power (and possibly generated it) due to greater numbers, but this cell did, so others could too. That doesn't mean that their facilities would be without fault, but they are not necessarily condemned to the same plight as Eden Prime's facility, they get their own.
I also doubt you understand what makes something "poetic", because evading the Reapers by going into stasis to preserve your species, only to have you be the "only" survivor and end up letting your race die indirectly by their hand isn't it. The only thing it can truly be described as is disheartening; you end up letting your entire race down by killing yourself due to sadness they inflicted upon you and your people (for those who chose to make Javik touch the memory shard, I personally didn't), essentially making them responsible for the death of the species and allowing them to win one last time. But you know what could be interpreted as "poetic", or rather "prophetic"? That "last" remnant of the Protheans reviving his dead race, either through cloning or stasis pods, to lead a small army that defeats the Reapers, FUFILLING JAVIK'S PRIMARY MISSION. Javik's mission was to rise from stasis in the next cycle, awake his army of Protheans and command them in a campaign that ultimately leads to the defeat of the Reapers. What could be more insulting to the Reapers than making their demise come from a plan that they thought was successfully sabotaged? Javik could also gain the satisfaction of knowing that he overcame all odds to complete a mission that was thought to be impossible by doing it in a non-conventional way. If anything, more Protheans present the opportunity to enrich Javik's story and make it better than it was before. From the ashes of a million dead Protheans, he rose to revive his race and command them as an army that defeated the Reapers, and he did it without a single other survivor from his own cell. That is a much more compelling tale than a Prothean surviving the Reaper invasion and then letting them be responsible for the death of his species by committing suicide from grief.
If it takes decades to clone an organism, does that mean that my war assets include Kakliosaur fetuses? Because it doesn't sound like those are going to help out the Krogan much at all. You seem to ignore the fact that science has made it to incredible heights in the Mass Effect universe; not everything is as cut and dry as you apparently see it. Cloning is much more developed than it is today, so trying to use modern science to prove your point isn't going to be enough. And I am convinced that you did not read this thread because you're making the same mistake so many others made: YOU DO NOT CONTROL JAVIK'S ACTIONS, FEELINGS OR THOUGHTS, BECAUSE HE IS NOT YOUR CHARACTER, HE IS BIOWARE'S. What gives you the audacity to tell anyone what Javik would or would not do? You may be able to make predictions, but you do not have complete control of his actions and to assume that you know exactly what is going on inside the head of a fictional character that you didn't even create is completely absurd. And even if by some miracle you were able to predict a character's actions with 100% accuracy, you seem to ignore a VERY big hole in your "logic": nothing says Javik needs to voluntarily give his DNA. I have already gone over how his DNA sample could be taken by force instead of through diplomatic passages; it would be an alternative storyline that would require some tweaking, but it has the potential to be as enriching as the others and the possibility is entirely open. On top of that, there are plenty of dead Protheans that would be able to be sampled and studied in the meantime to work on perfecting the cloning process. And all of that's ignoring the fact that due to the Protheans having a quad-strand DNA, we aren't necessarily sure how it works. There is no public information on what scientists may have learned from studying Prothean DNA and without it, you aren't able to necessarily assume that it operates in the exact same manner as the double helix DNA that is present in the real world. It could have an entirely different makeup and act vastly different from traditional double helix DNA if Bioware wants it to. And once again, I ask you what makes you qualified to speak for the Hanar as a whole? You are not in control of them, you do not know their intentions, actions or feelings and to tell me that my hypothetical theory is impossible because of some "information" you just made up without any proof makes your argument mean NOTHING.
In conclusion, the lore doesn't need to be broken by adding in Protheans, you're just too stubborn to consider any reality other than your own.
[quote]Subtle Riot wrote...
I'm glad the battlefield 2 soldier fits into the mass effect lore.[/quote]
Whoa there! They're Battlefield 3 Soldiers! Battlefield 2 Soldiers would just be a huge load of BS that doesn't make any sense whatsoever!
[quote]Father Superior wrote...
[quote]corporal doody wrote...
and im not convinced Javik would ALLOW himself to be cloned. so any cloning would have to be from other sources (fossilized Prothean remains perhaps)....if it was possible...im pretty sure they would have done this by the time our story began.
so no...i doubt cloning.
and conveniently finding prothean cryo tubes with live protheans...en masse....laughable
[/quote]
"Hey guys, 'corporal doody' said he isn't convinced a character we created would do what we said he'd do, so it looks like that whole Prothean thing is a no-go." -Heard in the Bioware offices
You are not raising any points for your side of the argument at all and have presented absolutely no proof, so you are really just continually bumping a thread that you disagree with. Smart.
[/quote]
WOOOOO
WOOO....
<INSERT SNARKY COMMENT THAT SHOWS HOW MAGNANIMOUS I AM AND HOW MUCH YOU SUCK>
here on the BSN you win a "What IF..." argument with a COUNTER "What IF..."
and/or "My Speculation and Lack of Proof" DEFEATS "Your as Speculation and Lack of Proof"..... EVEN WHEN NOTHING EXISTS TO PROVE OR DISPROVE EITHER SPECULATION.
this is far more true when WIT is applied (or attempted) i guess
AND since when is it that one can only post in a thread if they AGREE with something? The title clearly states "ARGUMENTS" so um.
[/quote]
I really hope that you're kidding, because that may have been the most illogical post I have seen on this site ever. Seriously, I have seen joke threads about nerfing the Eagle that have been more reasonable and intelligent than you have presented yourself thus far. First of all, you seem to be trying to tell me how things work on the BSN as if they adhere to different rules than any other place where a debate can be held. There is absolutely no "What if" that you could present that could counter another "What if", because there is no real action or information introduced yet. If your logic were to be applied to real life, the Pope would be able to disprove the "theory" of evolution by saying "But what if that didn't happen and it was God?". If that's all you can bring to the table, you should really just stop embarrassing yourself and leave.
You're either trolling or unable to focus long enough to read the entire thread, because if you weren't, then you'd have seen that it has already been established that as a Pro-thean, I do not need to bring any proof of living Protheans to the table, I just need to show how it is possible in the story that Bioware created. You may have noticed a bolded word in that last sentence; it is exactly why I am not required to bring proof. If this were a real situation, but substitute Protheans for something else like Martians, I would need to bring proof of these creatures existence and presence on Mars. But because this is a story and Bioware is able to bend and shape the reality however they please, no matter how improbable the events they put in action may be, there is absolutely no need or way for me to bring proof. I've said it many times before and if anti-Protheans are all as "remarkably absorbent in regards to information" as you, then I'll say it again: Pro-theans show that the story allows for more Protheans to be cloned/found and to make/find them wouldn't need to break the lore, anti-Protheans simply say that all Protheans are gone. You're asserting your own assumptions that you are falsely claiming as fact; if all of the Protheans are gone, prove it. Until a reliable source that can be trusted confirms the fate of the Protheans, you have nothing to base your argument on.
Assuming "WIT" is "What I think", you have absolutely no idea how an argument is formed. Just because you don't think that it can happen does not mean that others do too. A lot of people are rational enough to see that probability is not really enough of a counter-argument when the "last" Prothean just happens to emerge as the lone survivor of a stasis facility on a world that had been colonized over 30 years before at the end of the next cycle. There are even factors in the Pro-thean favor outside of the lore; Bioware/EA can make money off of content without needing to do a huge chunk of the work for MP. All of Javik's animations, mechanics, and models can be recycled or even tweaked just a slight bit to make it ready for MP; to choose not to make money off of something that you already made money off of before is a business decision that a company like EA would NEVER miss out on.
Finally, I wasn't saying that you aren't allowed to post if you don't agree, I was saying that if you are so opposed to the idea of Protheans being revived in some way, then you should either make an argument that isn't paper thin or you should just ignore the thread and try to keep it out of the public eye by not bumping it. Every reply you post is just more publicity of your failure to debunk Protheans and more people who get on board the idea of Protheans being brought back for MP. If you were actually bringing up good points then it would be different, but right now you are simply putting your failure of an argument on display for the entire BSN.
[quote]Alpha735 wrote...
[quote]jacob92883 wrote...
I was on the wiki earlier and I noticed the Reapers left an awful lot of prothean artifacts and relics around. You'd think that if they left that many clues laying around they might have missed a facility or two as well.
The Reapers also only found Javik's facility because of indoctrinated agents among the his personnel. So WHAT IF another base managed to succeed where Javik failed.[/quote]
It would be highly improbable (Notice, not impossible) for a prothean stasis facility to be found that actually contains living protheans, as Javik's facility was a rare case. Ironically, Javik was only preserved until this cyclebecause of the power loss. The protheans' plan for the stasis pods was to remain in stasis until the reapers left, then immediately begin rebuilding an empire. Thus, if any stasis facilities managed to survive unharmed, the protheans contained within would have started a new prothean empire, and the events of Mass Effect would not be possible. The only way for more protheans to have survived via stasis is if they experienced the exact same power malfunction as Javik's installation.
That being said, I believe cloning could be a viable way to introduce protheans, but I don't really see Javik as a willing donor of DNA. Perhaps a prothean VI would be willing to offer medical records?
[/quote]
Probability isn't something that the anti-Protheans can really use on their side; they have no problem with the "last" Prothean in the GALAXY being uncovered on a world that was colonized over 30 years beforehand, coincidentally right as the Reapers are ravaging this cycle. I'm not an expert on probability, but the odds of Javik's origins in ME3 occuring aren't exactly what I, or anyone with a functioning brain, would call good. But they happened anyway.
Once again, who are you to tell me or anyone else what is and what is not a rare case in Prothean stasis projects? Do you have specific knowledge of any Prothean stasis projects besides Eden Prime and Ilos that you used to determine what were common outcomes? If you don't, then you have nothing to base your argument on except speculation. Without specific information from a trustworthy primary source, there is nothing to prove that Protheans are completely gone from the ME universe and unable to return. For all we know, there are stasis facilities still in the galaxy that faced technological malfunctions that rendered them unable to remove the pods from stasis without manual assistance that are struggling to keep what few inhabitants are left (I would estimate that 40-50% of the original population could remain at most in any given facility) alive through a protocol similar to the "contingency plans" used by Vigil and Victory at the Ilos and Eden Prime facilities.
Nobody said that Javik needed to be willing to donate his DNA. Considering Alliance protocol when allowing a new "prisoner" on board is unknown to the player and so old that the crew needed to "dust off the old rule book", it could involve the taking of a DNA sample to identify the creature/prisoner, something that could be expected of the "new-to-space" mindset seeing as most hypothetical instances of aliens being discovered in that era seemed to involve dissecting the creature to learn about it's biology. There are dozens of other ways DNA could be forcibly taken from Javik, that's just one off the top of my head. Additionally, Javik isn't necessarily opposed to donating his DNA to reviving the Protheans, as no one but Bioware can be 100% sure of Javik's thoughts and feelings as a character. Consider this; Wrex mentions that Mordin took the sample from a "very sensitive place". How do we know that by refusing to submit to donating a sample to Mordin while he was alive, Javik wasn't saying "I don't want to donate my DNA to potentially save my race from extinction", but rather "KEEP THAT SCALPEL AWAY FROM MY ALIEN T*******S"? The whole things boils down to the fact that when you control the thoughts and feelings of a character, you can pretty much do whatever you please; Bioware left enough leeway to make Javik submit to DNA donation without completely going against the character.
[quote]corporal doody wrote...
i dunno man.....The cloning of Krogan to be used as troops in ME1 was seen as abominable. But the cloning of Protheans to be used as troops...cool beans? i guess it is only a moral and ethical issue when they are on your side.
I do agree that Javik WOULD NOT ALLOW himself to be cloned.
the VI thing i didnt think about.
anyother way...if it could have been done...it would have been done already.
[/quote]
There are endless reasons that could justify it; the Protheans are "extinct" and this could be their means of being revived, the galaxy has never faced a foe as powerful as the Reapers and in war times like these, you need all of the help you can get (do you think the Alliance would work with mercenary groups like the Blue Suns and the Blood Pack in any other situation, or vice versa?), the Protheans are worshipped by the Hanar and the chance to be able to revive their gods is something that they would not miss out on, etc. Also, unless you wrote Javik's character and are able to control his thoughts and feelings, you are not in the position to say what he will and will not do. You can make predictions based on his actions, but you are not able to be 100% sure without being in charge of his own actions, thoughts and feelings, something that the writers at Bioware are. They decide what Javik does, not you, me or anyone else.
You can tell how much you were reaching with that last sentence, because it is incredibly flawed. If the Crucible could have been made and activated, it would have been done already. If the Reapers can wipe out the entire galaxy this cycle, it would have been done already. If the Geth and Quarians are capable of peace, it would have been done already, before ME3. Saying that "if it can be done, it would have already been achieved" is a complete cop-out and not anywhere near a proper argument.
[quote]Garland7A wrote...
I think we have enough race/classes, they need to add more enemy factions imo.[/quote]
If there were enough races and classes in the MP to keep people happy and entertained, it would not be dying without DLC to defibrillate it every few months. This thread is not about adding new enemy factions, it is about adding Protheans into MP without breaking the (already broken) lore; if you want to discuss that, make your own thread.
[quote]corporal doody wrote...
the council couldnt afford it. What did they say..the galactic econonmy would collapse after only a year.
and with all the resources and top scientist working on the cruicible..... i dunno
edit: and the..."oh they cloned the klakulosaur (or whatever they are called)" i would argue that cloning a animal is "easier" than cloning a "person."
we can clone a sheep or mouse....but i have yet to see them clone a person (scientific and moral/ethical issues need apply!)
[/quote]
Once again, you're wrong. All of the top scientists and resources in the GALAXY are not being put solely into the Crucible. Ever heard of a saying that goes something like "Don't put all of your eggs into the same basket"? That applies perfectly, because people are still planning for a future that doesn't exist. There are still Salarians planning to uplift the Yahg (sounds costly, seeing as things such as the Shroud were parts of the Krogan uplift), a rich volus is using his money on excavation of Klencory, a Salarian merchant on the Citadel refuses to give his guns to the war effort without proper compensation that would retain value in a barter system, Cerberus is studying and trying to control indoctrination at Sanctuary, and Commander Shepard is spending their time buying model spaceships and fish for their aquarium. There will never be 100% collaborative concentration on the war effort in any situation in history, even in most of the fictional ones.
Unless you are an expert in cloning, the biology of all creatures of the Mass Effect universe and all technology as of Mass Effect 3, your doubt doesn't strengthen the argument of your side. And how exactly does modern technology have any meaning in this situation? With modern sciences, we are unable to surpass the speed of light, have not established contact with any other species existing on planets or other celestial bodies other than Earth, and do not have a magic gel that we can smear on ourselves to heal gunshot wounds; by the events of these games, things have changed.
[quote]Alpha735 wrote...
Yeah, I guess the council's resources are already stretched, plus the research might take too long. How long is ME3 anyway?
[/quote]
Read. The. Thread. Nothing is stopping this cloning program from being in operation for several years and finally being close to a breakthrough that would perfect the process around the time of ME3.
[quote]Kataigida wrote...
Cloning is the absolute worst way that they could implement Protheans, even if there was already some facility that was trying to clone them since before the war. I'd rather they just found a random bunker somewhere that had a platoon of Protheans in it...but even then, that idea is far fetched. Why? Well for one, the base would have automatically awoken the protheans after a few hundred or maybe a couple thousand years so that they could re-populate and regrow their empire. Even if by some chance their systems got fried like Javik's, the facility isn't going to have enough power to last 50,000 years and save a platoon-sized group of Protheans. Even with auto-awakening, the Prothean bunker on Ilos couldn't sustain its population, and it was supposed to do actually what it is you want to propose. Only about two dozen out of hundreds of Protheans survived until they were re-awoken. And then in Javik's case, he had a fairly large army in stasis...all of whom had to be purged because there wasn't enough power, because in the end, the power only was enough for a single Prothean to survive 50,000 years.[/quote]
No it isn't, you're just too narrow-minded to consider other possibilities, so you continually attempt to poke holes in a series of theories that can adapt to them. I don't even see an attempt to dispute cloning other than "I don't like it, so it won't happen", so I'm just going to go straight to your attempts to take down the possibility of finding more stasis pods.
First, who are you to tell anyone what is and is not far fetched? Unless you have knowledge of every single action the Protheans took over the course of their entire Empire, from their first colony to their "annihilation" at the hands of the Reapers, you are not qualified to tell anyone what is and is not possible, nor to what degree. You have no proof that the other Prothean facilities were completely fool-proof and would have operated without a single problem, nor do you have proof that the Protheans had completely eliminated the possibility of technological bugs or malfunctions that could lead to circumstances that would allow for a group of them to remain trapped in stasis, unable to emerge without manual assistance.
You're severely underestimating the Protheans. They were prepared for a VERY long stasis. They didn't intend to stay in stasis for very long, but they were prepared to if the situation changed; this was a life or death situation that could determine their fate as a species, they could not afford to be killed off by a variable no one considered. Before Victory even initiated the neutron purge, approximately 300,000 lifepods had been lost, to which Javik says in shock "A third of our people"; think about how much power would be required to keep those pods running, because that power is now excess for the remaining pods. He later is seen saying that they will rise again "a million strong", revealing that there are at least 700,000/600,000 Prothean lifepods left to be occupied. After being told that there are some refugees that have yet to reach the bunker, Javik is not completely disheartened and says "Their sacrifice will be honored in the coming empire." While no actual numbers given, it can be estimated to be quite a great number. Eden Prime's facility is now only required to use approximately 2/3 of it's full reserves, leaving a hefty excess for any unforeseen circumstances. Then, the bad news comes: the facility is compromised and a neutron bombardment must be initiated to purge the Reaper forces. Javik cringes as the explosions are heard and when Victory tells him the bunker is secure, he replies with "What's left of it. A few hundred people. How am I to rebuild an Empire from that?" Did you catch that part? The neutron purge ate up so much power, that a facility housing 600,000-700,000 Protheans running on enough energy to house 1,000,000 Protheans was cut down to the mere hundreds in survivors. And due to the inability of automatic reactivation from the damage of the neutron purge, the VI decided to focus on preserving a single Commander, due to a "contingency plan" that kept the highest members in society alive in favor of average citizens. Now imagine that there was a facility in the same situation, except it did not need to initiate a neutron purge, but it did face technological difficulties that required manual reactivation of the lifepods to bring the subjects out of stasis. It is entirely plausible that a small group of Protheans numbering in the hundreds could be preserved by a "contingency plan" set in place by the VI looking over the facility to ensure that at least some survivors would make it to the next cycle. You're attempt at using Ilos is flawed because it was not originally designed to be a stasis facility and due to the Reaper presence remaining longer than expected, Vigil was forced to go with the "contingency plan" he had been programmed to do if necessary. Had Ilos not primarily been a research facility and was equipped as a well as a stasis bunker, it might have had a chance, but to compare it to one that was designed for stasis pods like Eden Prime is like comparing hiding in a fallout bunker to hiding underneath a desk.
[quote]Schneidend wrote...
Lore issues aside, I just don't want them to waste time and effort making Prothean classes. I'd much rather see Spectre alien classes (to mirror the N7s) or Mercenary (Blue Sun, Eclipse, Blood Pack, etc.) classes.[/quote]
Waste time and effort? They can copy and paste Javik's animations, mechanics and models into the MP with slight adjustments and they're done. The SP DLC still needs to be made, but half the work is already done for them, by them.
[quote]LuckyBullet95 wrote...
They aren't really lore friendly but hey I don't care anymore, give me goddamn Yoda as a playable and the Vulcans as an enemy factions for all I care, just keep the game fresh and fun...[/quote]
No, they are lore friendly. Moreso than a lot of content already in MP.
[quote]DHKany wrote...
I want my 10$ back if this happens.[/quote]
If Javik not being the only Prothean makes you eligible for your money back from "From Ashes", then I deserve my money back from Mass Effect 1 because Sovereign wasn't the only Reaper.
[quote]FullMetalArthur wrote...
Ok. the lore you create seems factible, but there are solid facts that make prothean extinct forever.
1. Javik survived and that was like Luke destroying the death star. One in a million. but ok, how many prothean existed at one point? billions? ok but how many remain after the Reaper suprise attack. thousands? Javik was just the last. It is poetic almost, even with javik alive the reapers succeded in making them extinct, and even after the reapers returned to dark space, the collectors kept searching. Not even the last group of the brightest prothean scientist were able to mantain alive a dozen of his comrades. Their last effort was to make sure we don't suffer the same fate. It was because of them Sovereign failed and the citadel wasn't destroyed.
don't undermine that sacrifice by forcing a lore where other hundred of prothean survived.
2. to succefully clone a living organism it needs to grow from scratch, pretty much like embryons. even passing the fact that Javik would agree to give away tissie sample to clone more protheans (which im sure he won't) it will take decades. And if you insist that the cloning research started decades ago wouln't make sense given the fact that you need a prothean (dead or alive) to do such thing. And only a handful of people knew that the collectors were protheans once, and the general info of prothean was so vage that many didn't even considered them real, except for hanar. AND THEY wouln't even dare on consider cloning their gods.
so, in resume. the lore can be implemented all right, but it will break the sense of everything javik represents and symbolizes. AND THAT WOULD BE LIKE MATRIX RELOADED AND REVOLUTIONS.
so please, no.[/quote]
I don't think you know what a fact is, much less a "solid" one. First off, you are trying to state something as fact while constantly asking questions about it, which is clear evidence that you don't know. I may not have an exact number, as only Bioware has that, but I do have information that makes theorizing possible. First off, you are completely and totally wrong about the Prothean Empire's population pre-Reapers. Billions? There are 7 billion people on Earth today. Their empire is supposed to have reached across the ENTIRE GALAXY. Anything short of trillions is complete nonsense and even then, trillions are on the small side. As you can see in my previous posts, it is established that Javik is exactly that, one in a million. Dialogue from "From Ashes" in the flashbacks you watch when first finding the lifepod confirm that Javik's cell of survivors numbered in at least 1,000,000, as that was the capacity of the Eden Prime stasis facility. He mentions that all of the cells lost communications with each other, making a census of the Prothean population after the initial Reaper invasion impossible for anyone but Bioware. However, if Javik's group could remain hidden (until being revealed by indoctrinated traitors of their own cell, as no one outside the cells knew about the other cells) with 1,000,000 people, others could too. That is not to say every other cell contained 1,000,000 or more, but it is entirely possible for that to be true. If this, only a mere fragment of what the Prothean Empire once was, was capable of generating enough power to preserve 1,000,000 Protheans in stasis, then there is reason to believe that the others could too. Some might not have needed to house a million, others might have needed more power (and possibly generated it) due to greater numbers, but this cell did, so others could too. That doesn't mean that their facilities would be without fault, but they are not necessarily condemned to the same plight as Eden Prime's facility, they get their own.
I also doubt you understand what makes something "poetic", because evading the Reapers by going into stasis to preserve your species, only to have you be the "only" survivor and end up letting your race die indirectly by their hand isn't it. The only thing it can truly be described as is disheartening; you end up letting your entire race down by killing yourself due to sadness they inflicted upon you and your people (for those who chose to make Javik touch the memory shard, I personally didn't), essentially making them responsible for the death of the species and allowing them to win one last time. But you know what could be interpreted as "poetic", or rather "prophetic"? That "last" remnant of the Protheans reviving his dead race, either through cloning or stasis pods, to lead a small army that defeats the Reapers, FUFILLING JAVIK'S PRIMARY MISSION. Javik's mission was to rise from stasis in the next cycle, awake his army of Protheans and command them in a campaign that ultimately leads to the defeat of the Reapers. What could be more insulting to the Reapers than making their demise come from a plan that they thought was successfully sabotaged? Javik could also gain the satisfaction of knowing that he overcame all odds to complete a mission that was thought to be impossible by doing it in a non-conventional way. If anything, more Protheans present the opportunity to enrich Javik's story and make it better than it was before. From the ashes of a million dead Protheans, he rose to revive his race and command them as an army that defeated the Reapers, and he did it without a single other survivor from his own cell. That is a much more compelling tale than a Prothean surviving the Reaper invasion and then letting them be responsible for the death of his species by committing suicide from grief.
If it takes decades to clone an organism, does that mean that my war assets include Kakliosaur fetuses? Because it doesn't sound like those are going to help out the Krogan much at all. You seem to ignore the fact that science has made it to incredible heights in the Mass Effect universe; not everything is as cut and dry as you apparently see it. Cloning is much more developed than it is today, so trying to use modern science to prove your point isn't going to be enough. And I am convinced that you did not read this thread because you're making the same mistake so many others made: YOU DO NOT CONTROL JAVIK'S ACTIONS, FEELINGS OR THOUGHTS, BECAUSE HE IS NOT YOUR CHARACTER, HE IS BIOWARE'S. What gives you the audacity to tell anyone what Javik would or would not do? You may be able to make predictions, but you do not have complete control of his actions and to assume that you know exactly what is going on inside the head of a fictional character that you didn't even create is completely absurd. And even if by some miracle you were able to predict a character's actions with 100% accuracy, you seem to ignore a VERY big hole in your "logic": nothing says Javik needs to voluntarily give his DNA. I have already gone over how his DNA sample could be taken by force instead of through diplomatic passages; it would be an alternative storyline that would require some tweaking, but it has the potential to be as enriching as the others and the possibility is entirely open. On top of that, there are plenty of dead Protheans that would be able to be sampled and studied in the meantime to work on perfecting the cloning process. And all of that's ignoring the fact that due to the Protheans having a quad-strand DNA, we aren't necessarily sure how it works. There is no public information on what scientists may have learned from studying Prothean DNA and without it, you aren't able to necessarily assume that it operates in the exact same manner as the double helix DNA that is present in the real world. It could have an entirely different makeup and act vastly different from traditional double helix DNA if Bioware wants it to. And once again, I ask you what makes you qualified to speak for the Hanar as a whole? You are not in control of them, you do not know their intentions, actions or feelings and to tell me that my hypothetical theory is impossible because of some "information" you just made up without any proof makes your argument mean NOTHING.
In conclusion, the lore doesn't need to be broken by adding in Protheans, you're just too stubborn to consider any reality other than your own.
[quote]Subtle Riot wrote...
I'm glad the battlefield 2 soldier fits into the mass effect lore.[/quote]
Whoa there! They're Battlefield 3 Soldiers! Battlefield 2 Soldiers would just be a huge load of BS that doesn't make any sense whatsoever!
#217
Posté 19 août 2012 - 02:30
Jackville Assington
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If you want to see Volus, Elcor, and Hanar, give me a hell yeah!
#218
Posté 19 août 2012 - 02:54
GreatBlueHeron
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DHKany wrote...
rockthatwood wrote...
DHKany wrote...
rockthatwood wrote...
DHKany wrote...
I want my 10$ back if this happens.
why?
paid a DAY ONE 10$ DLC to get the LAST PROTHEAN.
Only to find that a few months later, protheans suddenly get rediscovered/cloned.
I want that day one DLC to remain special.
firstly, it was never stated that he is in fact the last prothean. here's the description:
"Unearth lost secrets from the past and recruit the Prothean squad member in Mass Effect 3: From Ashes."
secondly, it is called a EULA. read it.
point taken. But then Javik's tragic story would be ruined. And then I would seriously never play SP ever again.
But each to his own.
His story wouldn't be ruined. It'd still be tragic enough for people who like that kind of thing, plus he'd have a reason to live post-Reapers. It'd be a great story of survival, of defying the Reapers. The sacrifices that the others made would count even more. The survival of an entire species is more important than the survivial of an individual.
#219
Posté 19 août 2012 - 04:12
Alpha735
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The thing is, to introduce protheans into MP without an accompanying SP dlc is my real problem with this debate. If Bioware released a singleplayer dlc that involved maybe defending a cloning lab while it puts the final touches on the cloned protheans, I would have no issue with having them in MP. But just dropping them into the MP with only some message from Admiral Hackett to explain their arrival makes them feel... unfinished. Without an SP dlc, it just makes me wonder where the protheans were during the entire singleplayer campaign.
Modifié par Alpha735, 19 août 2012 - 04:13 .
#220
Posté 19 août 2012 - 04:18
cuzIMgood
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Adding protheans is just unnecessary. I would much rather see some new game modes over a few new chars/weapons to keep doing the same thing.
#221
Posté 19 août 2012 - 04:35
corporal doody
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oh Father Superior....your walls of text....
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage. And then is heard no more: it is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
i dont want Protheans in ME3MP.
as a bonus character in a future ME MP game..okay. aint jack anyone can say to change my mind.
inb4whocareswhatyouthink.... cuz if you didnt care you wouldnt resort to essays.
edit...and by WIT....i mean wit...your attempts at being witty.
Wit is a form of intellectual humor, and is the ability to say or write things that are clever and usually funny.
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage. And then is heard no more: it is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
i dont want Protheans in ME3MP.
as a bonus character in a future ME MP game..okay. aint jack anyone can say to change my mind.
inb4whocareswhatyouthink.... cuz if you didnt care you wouldnt resort to essays.
edit...and by WIT....i mean wit...your attempts at being witty.
Wit is a form of intellectual humor, and is the ability to say or write things that are clever and usually funny.
Modifié par corporal doody, 19 août 2012 - 04:39 .
#222
Posté 19 août 2012 - 05:00
BlessedSoldier
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Teratoid wrote...
xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...
Adding Protheans does not have to break lore. These arguments prove that.
What most of these arguments "prove" is that to justify the sudden appearance of thousands upon thousands of Protheans, you'd need some sort of deus ex machina. Which invariably involve some sort of incredible oversight on part of the Reapers in somehow forgetting to search certain locations. Or cloning the last living Prothean to make a horde that would basically be no different from what Saren attempted with the Krogan. And most of these arguments fail to specify exactly what the point of cloning Protheans would be anyway, when you could just clone more Krogan or Turian and so on.
Also, Protheans lost the previous war because of their inability to adapt. Yeah, that's what you need on your side.
The problem with the anti prothean crowd aside from the constant "just no" posts is the fact they think it requires thousands of protheans. It doesnt. Their are not thousands of N7 Paladins out there in fact realistically we could go with only 2 dozen or even just 4 as thats the most one can see on Camera.
#223
Posté 19 août 2012 - 05:05
rockthatwood
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GreatBlueHeron wrote...
DHKany wrote...
rockthatwood wrote...
DHKany wrote...
rockthatwood wrote...
DHKany wrote...
I want my 10$ back if this happens.
why?
paid a DAY ONE 10$ DLC to get the LAST PROTHEAN.
Only to find that a few months later, protheans suddenly get rediscovered/cloned.
I want that day one DLC to remain special.
firstly, it was never stated that he is in fact the last prothean. here's the description:
"Unearth lost secrets from the past and recruit the Prothean squad member in Mass Effect 3: From Ashes."
secondly, it is called a EULA. read it.
point taken. But then Javik's tragic story would be ruined. And then I would seriously never play SP ever again.
But each to his own.
His story wouldn't be ruined. It'd still be tragic enough for people who like that kind of thing, plus he'd have a reason to live post-Reapers. It'd be a great story of survival, of defying the Reapers. The sacrifices that the others made would count even more. The survival of an entire species is more important than the survivial of an individual.
THANK YOU
#224
Posté 19 août 2012 - 05:07
rockthatwood
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Jackville Assington wrote...
If you want to see Volus, Elcor, and Hanar, give me a hell yeah!
just volus.
but...*ahem*...HELL YEAH
#225
Posté 19 août 2012 - 09:48
jacob92883
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Can we please stop all the personal attacks and insults. You prove nothing by attacking each other, except who is least civilized. Lets stick to the facts and draw our own conclusions and post them, and debate them. We should also try and consider other peoples view on this matter.
